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The real Problem still there; Gainey

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Old
03-09-2009, 06:09 PM
  #26
beowulf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
For sure. Gainey is the man and will do an excellent job once again as coach. He has also been a very good GM.

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Old
03-09-2009, 06:15 PM
  #27
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I'm not seeing BG as a problem.

For the most part talent has been assembled in smart way. We haven't dumped a boat load of youngsters for a rent-a-player as some GMs do. Attempts have been made to get some free agents that have not come to fruition for a host of reasons other than trying. I think the last month of media attack 101 has been a reason why. Who needs the grief?

What is truly remarkable with our club is that a lot of players did well last year, but now when they are in their UFA/RFA season they are not producing. Unless they are collectively incredible dumb about how to get a good contract, something else has changed besides the GM's handicraft.

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Old
03-09-2009, 06:16 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by InPriceWeTrust View Post
Gainey put together the best team we've had in well over a decade.

Other then his no negotiating contracts rule, he's the best and most professional gm this team could ask for.
well that team is fighting for a playoff spot right now. If this is the best club he could assemble in his 5-6 years as GM, we are in big trouble.

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Old
03-09-2009, 06:17 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Guillemin View Post
This isn't just Carbo's system. If the system is the problem, why are Muller and Jarvis still there?
It's not the system so much as its execution, IMHO.

I don't think that "give the puck to the opposing team in the slot" was part of Carbo's system at any point. But system issues (forwards too far ahead of the D-men, for example, denying pass options) may result in those happening more often.

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Old
03-09-2009, 06:17 PM
  #30
Nashy
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Sure Gainey makes mistakes...but he always cleans up after himself. This is just another example.

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Old
03-09-2009, 06:23 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiredman View Post
how many cups lamoriello has won again in the last 10 years ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by habdynasty View Post
3 in 13 years, habs 2 in the last 30
Wow, its amazing the stupid stuff people will write when they realize their arguments have been destroyed.

How many years did it take Lamoriello to win his first cup??? I bet you both don't even know.

Lou has been GM for 22 YEARS!!! Its 3 cups in 22 years, not 13. It took him 8 FRIGGIN YEARS before winning his first cup as a GM. It took Gainey 6 years as a rookie GM to win the cup and he left after that first cup. I think Gainey should have as much a benefit of the doubt as Lamoriello does.

Give your heads a shake, you both fail utterly in the hockey knowledge department.

And his argument was good, if Lam can have 5 coaches in over 10 years, people can't blame Gainey for having two coaches in the span of 5 years. Julien wasn't his choice, he was there when he came in. His only choice up to date is Carbo, and that wasn't a total bust, they did finish 1st in the conference last season.

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Old
03-09-2009, 06:23 PM
  #32
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LoL at this thread, No GM is perfect but the way Gainey approaches his job is pretty good, he doesnt feel pressure from the medias in Montreal, case in point this year he didnt throw our future prospects/money for Jokinen.

I said it before and I will say it again were lucky to have him as the GM, and same with Gillette, they are the best things that could have happend since the Habs won the cup in 93.

Carbo has had difficulty coaching its been pretty obvious his communication with players is terrible aswell as his constant juggling of lines or his constant favoring of the grinders.

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Old
03-09-2009, 06:24 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Nashy View Post
Sure Gainey makes mistakes...but he always cleans up after himself. This is just another example.
He should not clean up if he made good decision in the first place. Carbo was a good defensive player and you asked him to coach a good offensive team like the Habs and asked this team to play the trap?

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Old
03-09-2009, 06:24 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by superstar436 View Post
well that team is fighting for a playoff spot right now. If this is the best club he could assemble in his 5-6 years as GM, we are in big trouble.
How many teams don't fight for the playoffs from year to year> Keep in mind Boston is in first this year, but they weren't always there. And the Habs were first last year. In terms of perennial playoff contenders, there are the Sharks, Devils and Wings. How long did it take these teams to become this? More than 4-5 years.

The Caps will be on that list in the future. They got Ovechkin. Other than that, none of the other teams are consistent playoff contenders - either they're inconsistent year to year or they haven't proven themselves to be contenders yet. Calgary, New York Vancouver are inconsistent from year to year. How come nobody is calling for the heads of these GMs? Chicago, Columbus, Florida, etc. are all not proven.

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Old
03-09-2009, 06:25 PM
  #35
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I fully support Bob Gainey. I'm also disappointed to see Carbonneau leave, but I understand why it had to be done... I must say that he also took the right decision by chosing to go back behind the bench (rather then hiring a new coach).

It will certainly help BG evaluate the players before he signs (or doesn't) them this summer.

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Old
03-09-2009, 06:27 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markov4Norris View Post
Gainey saved is job. Carbonneau was not perfect, far from this, but Gainey is the real problem in the habs organization! If you look the transaction he made, maybe 1 out of 2 turn out to be good....that's not a good rating for a GM.

Plus he still make the same error he made with Streit next year. He keep saying he will not sign his player during the season...that will cost him a lot! We know he will resign Komisarek, but if he wait July 1st Komisarek will cost a lot more! If he sign him mid season, Komisarek's salary should've been more on target.

If he keeps goiin like this, Gainey is the next one to loose is job....he just save his a** for a couple of month
All the Gainey bashers are quick to dismiss all of the players that have been drafted by the organization during his tenure as GM. I personally think it's totally asinine - and quite naive - to suggest that Gainey should get no credit at all for the job Timmins does, but if that's what you want to pretend - and I suspect you do - fine.

You say that only half of his moves actually work out.

Really?

Among the people he's brought into the organization are:

Alex Kovalev
Robert Lang
Alex Tanguay
Matheiu Schneider
Roman Hamrlik

These are all well above average NHLers. The cost for all of those players - all of them - from within the organization was Jozef Balej.

While he traded some picks in the process, the organzational depth is as good as it's been in the last thirty years. The organization has so much strength in its farm system it's able to swap picks for high end players.

Meanwhile, he's lost Ron Hainsey (who, I'm amazed some people miss) Francois Beauchmemin (not sure how you can blame Gainey for a player that was cut by his coach and sent down, but alas, many do) and Mike Ribeiro.

Personally, I wouldn't take Hainsey or Ribeiro back if they arrived and begged to play for free. Other deals saw him trade pending UFAs like Begin and Huet after he deemed them no worth bringing back. I'm amazed some can criticize these moves.

Where are the awful moves he made? How did you arrive at your .500 average?

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Old
03-09-2009, 06:30 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Wow, its amazing the stupid stuff people will write when they realize their arguments have been destroyed.

How many years did it take Lamoriello to win his first cup??? I bet you both don't even know.

Lou has been GM for 22 YEARS!!! Its 3 cups in 22 years, not 13. It took him 8 FRIGGIN YEARS before winning his first cup as a GM. It took Gainey 6 years as a rookie GM to win the cup and he left after that first cup. I think Gainey should have as much a benefit of the doubt as Lamoriello does.

Give your heads a shake, you both fail utterly in the hockey knowledge department.

And his argument was good, if Lam can have 5 coaches in over 10 years, people can't blame Gainey for having two coaches in the span of 5 years. Julien wasn't his choice, he was there when he came in. His only choice up to date is Carbo, and that wasn't a total bust, they did finish 1st in the conference last season.
look who's here again to not talk about hockey but to talk about posters. it's incredible all posts coming from you are to talk about other people on the boards.

btw, who really cares about lamoriello ? i never mentionned he was great or an exemple to follow. gainey is just mediocre. ribeiro, hainey, julien fired, carbo fired, theo traded for crap, samsonov, beauchemin, giving begin, huet for a pick, the fact that he doesn't want to negociate with players during the seasons and many more mistakes. do you need more exemples just to show you he's mediocre ? is it just too much to ask for a good gm ?

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Old
03-09-2009, 06:35 PM
  #38
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QUOTE=tiredman;18438637]look who's here again to not talk about hockey but to talk about posters. it's incredible all posts coming from you are to talk about other people on the boards.

btw, who really cares about lamoriello ? i never mentionned he was great or an exemple to follow. gainey is just mediocre. ribeiro, hainey, julien fired, carbo fired, theo traded for crap, samsonov, beauchemin, giving begin, huet for a pick, the fact that he doesn't want to negociate with players during the seasons and many more mistakes. do you need more exemples just to show you he's mediocre ? is it just too much to ask for a good gm ?[/QUOTE]


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Old
03-09-2009, 06:39 PM
  #39
habdynasty
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Gainey is the man I hope he is the gm for the next 40 years, carbo sucked he got fired end of story

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Old
03-09-2009, 06:39 PM
  #40
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I like Carbo a lot but I don't see Gainey as a problem, he's bar none the best GM we could have right now. I think a lot of the players need to look at how they've been playing and acting this year. And LOL at the same people wanting accountability for each little thing the coach does not having the same standarts for the GM. But whatever, go pound away at tiredman, he doesn't write perfect english and he has different views so he's perfect!

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Old
03-09-2009, 06:39 PM
  #41
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Carbo went to great lengths to play Kovalev like he was the go-to guy on the offense. "If Kovalev doesn't produce our offense can't produce" seemed to be the logic. That's despite the fact the coaching staff was fully cognizant that he was a serious issue (per Gainey's press conference).

If Gainey doesn't put Kovalev in a system where Kovalev's not the number one offensive player, IMO Gainey's also signing his death warrant.

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Old
03-09-2009, 06:41 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
Carbo went to great length to play Kovalev like he was the go-to guy on the offense. That's despite the fact the coaching staff was fully cognizant that he was a serious issue (per Gainey's press conference). If Gainey doesn't put Kovalev in a system where Kovalev's not the number one offensive player, IMO Gainey's also signing his death warrant.
Hate to quote that big mouth Don Cherry but he did say guys like Kovalev are"Coach Killers"

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Old
03-09-2009, 06:42 PM
  #43
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He also needs to be a man and quit making halfhearted attempts like trade Souray and Rivet. Not trade for Schneider and sell a few assets if the habs cant do serious damage. Trade a few UFAs this year and sign Koivu, Komi, Schneider etc. It would be nice to get a schneider for a million or so. Maybe GG wants to get into the playoffs for the revenue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markov4Norris View Post
Gainey saved is job. Carbonneau was not perfect, far from this, but Gainey is the real problem in the habs organization! If you look the transaction he made, maybe 1 out of 2 turn out to be good....that's not a good rating for a GM.

Plus he still make the same error he made with Streit next year. He keep saying he will not sign his player during the season...that will cost him a lot! We know he will resign Komisarek, but if he wait July 1st Komisarek will cost a lot more! If he sign him mid season, Komisarek's salary should've been more on target.

If he keeps goiin like this, Gainey is the next one to loose is job....he just save his a** for a couple of month

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Old
03-09-2009, 06:42 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by tiredman View Post
how many cups lamoriello has won again in the last 10 years ?
Which would be my point that you don't measure success by coaching turnover.

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Old
03-09-2009, 06:44 PM
  #45
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I still have my concerns about Gainey. The day we'll reach the 3rd round, we might actually have the feeling that our team is going in the right direction. Even if you don't care who he brings, who he lost for nothing, who he had for nothing and so on, only results are important. As far as the regular season, we have achieved to become a better regular season team. But in the end, who the heck cares about where you finish in the standing if you can't past the 2nd round.

But I guess you need to start somewhere. While I never believed that Carbo will be fired by Gainey, his best move, I'm starting to believe that Gainey works on a tight schedule now. And for some if it doesn't work out and Gainey has to go, well another GM will be appointed and will probably benefit from Gainey's decisions.....like almost every GM who has done great keep thanking his predecessor. What else will be new.

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Old
03-09-2009, 06:44 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by JustAHabFan View Post
2) Bad asset management. He has lost Souray, Streit for nothing. I have also have the weird feeling that he may also lose Komi for nothing.
Have to agree here, especially on Souray. Streit I understand a bit more since his value was IMO less during the window and we were in a better spot.

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Old
03-09-2009, 06:44 PM
  #47
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when are people going to start blaming players?

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Old
03-09-2009, 06:48 PM
  #48
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when are people going to start blaming players?
I get the sense that if they don't get their act together here to the end, there's no one else left to blame and not many of them should sign lease extensions on their places.

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Old
03-09-2009, 06:50 PM
  #49
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Have to agree here, especially on Souray. Streit I understand a bit more since his value was IMO less during the window and we were in a better spot.
The Habs where in the hunt to make the playoffs. While in retrospect this was a bad move, at the time we had not been eliminated and were not until the last day of the season. Also based on Souray's statement, the Habs were his top choice.(which was BS...but anyways)

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Old
03-09-2009, 06:50 PM
  #50
les Habs
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when are people going to start blaming players?
Gainey is responsible to biggest extent because he is the GM. That's not to say that Carbo and the players shouldn't be held accountable though and Carbo was just held accountable today. It isn't all his fault, but Carbo wasn't getting the best out of the players. Working as a manager every day I know that even average performers or below target performers can be improve under the right leadership. Hell, just living tow nightmare seasons with FC Barcelona you can see how imporant the coach/manager's job is.

As for Gainey, I think he's made mistakes. Still I think he's done more good than harm and even if the 5 year plan doesn't yield a Cup that doesn't mean that it was a total failure.

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