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Should Fighting in Hockey be Banned???

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Old
03-13-2004, 08:58 PM
  #26
Glacier
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How can you ban fighting?

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03-13-2004, 09:17 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glacier
How can you ban fighting?
I would not ban fighting exactly. I would simply increase the penalty. 1st fight of season, throw both players out of the game. 2nd fight of the season, out for the game + a one game suspension. And the suspensions go up from there.

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Old
03-13-2004, 09:23 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by PecaFan
It's simply a sideshow, an occassional freak show to keep some in the crowd entertained in the middle of the game.
Tell that to the 21,000 people standing and cheering for Domi and Langdon after their long fight in the first period of the Leafs/Habs game tonight. Fighting is exciting.

It does prevent more injuries than it causes. If fighting was outlawed, retribution would be handed out like it was handed out by Todd Bertuzzi this week. It's better for two guys to throw a few punches and get the animosity out of their system and their teammates' systems than see somebody get cheapshotted.

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03-13-2004, 09:37 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PEli
Tell that to the 21,000 people standing and cheering for Domi and Langdon after their long fight in the first period of the Leafs/Habs game tonight. Fighting is exciting.

It does prevent more injuries than it causes. If fighting was outlawed, retribution would be handed out like it was handed out by Todd Bertuzzi this week. It's better for two guys to throw a few punches and get the animosity out of their system and their teammates' systems than see somebody get cheapshotted.
If you ever were to get rid of fighting you can't just do it in a vaccuum. The league would have to crack down on all cheapshots in a really hard way at the same time. You can't do one without the other.

And at the same time you would want to keep the physical and tough aspect of hockey. Lets not kid ourselves. Anyone trying to do it will have his hands full.

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Old
03-13-2004, 09:53 PM
  #30
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hell no.

didn't the league go down this road before with fighting and it was a huge mistake. the fact is, it's apart of the game. period. there is going to be ugly incidences like the Mcsorely's and Bertuzzi's but that doesn't have anything to do with fighting.

I also think that the instigator rule should be lifted.

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Old
03-13-2004, 11:55 PM
  #31
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Do I think fighting should be banned? No way.

Is fighting the reason I watch hockey? Not even a little.

Am I the only one who finds it annoying when people ask a question and then answer it themselves? I doubt it.

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Old
03-14-2004, 12:52 AM
  #32
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fights are and have been a part of this game for years and years, if an attempt was made to ban fighting, i'd ask the question, why play on ice.... a player could get hurt from falling down the wrong way ... god forbid ... no wait that's happened many many times hasn't it??? a fight's a fight, the two particapants know they could come out bloody, they know something could happen, but do they back down? ... some yes, most no... they do it to give their team a spark, to send a message to the opposing team that you don't hit such and such on my team, and the list goes on.... fighting shouldn't be banned and if there was ever a thought that it would be banned i think it'd be laughed out .... least i'd hope the BOG wouldn't even think of sending something like this through, it would completely alienate most fans IMO, the appeal of hockey to many, including myself was the physical nature of the game at first.... hell, my first memory, as i've said here many times, was during a game i watched when i was about 5 or 6 years old... i saw joey kocur beatin the living snot outta someone (been so long i can't remember who), that's what brought me to the game back then, then as i grew older i love watching the plays develop, learning more about the game etc... but it's the physical play that gets everyone excited .... it's RARE that you see anyone sit down when a fight breaks out... true or untrue? get rid of the cheapshots and you'll see alot better of a game on the ice, i guarantee it,... kick out the instigator rule, and let enforcers do their jobs and you'll see less cheapshots .... and more than likely more fights (which aint a bad thing at all)

Quote:
they are staged fights between two tough guys that get paid to do that
Quote:
if you saw a good hockey game that had no fighting and feel like you didnt get what you paid for, then that is part of the problem.
i don't quite think the fights are staged ... they'd be much better and the linesmen would stay the hell outta the way if it were staged as for the good hockey game w/ no fight.. that's just fine too, but to even think about banning fighting is ridiculous, what's next.... ban hip checks..body checks?.. any check period?

Quote:
Dead on. Fighting simply causes injuries, has *zero* deterrent capacity, and causes more problems than it solves.

It's simply a sideshow, an occassional freak show to keep some in the crowd entertained in the middle of the game. It's no more a part of hockey than the guys in the sumo suits at intermission.
fighting causes injuries, but as i said above, the combatants know this and they willingly go into it, it was also said and i fully agree with, it brings life to the crowd and a spark to the teams, it doesn't cause any problems, it solves em or leaves them unresolved... only to be resolved w/ another true fight later in the game/season, i'd hardly call it a sideshow, if it only entertained an occasional freak in the crowd then the nhl has a bunch of freaks for fans ... name me one time during a true fight has it been dead silent in the building... w/e sumo dude's ur talking about during intermission is just it INTERMISSION intermission doesn't have to neccesarily be about hockey or anything hockey related for that matter, so that statement is pretty much irrelevant here

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It re-inforces this harebrained concept of "players holding other players accountable" and "frontier justice" and whatever.
what's so harebrained about that??? bring back the days of yesteryear and the rules back then and the league will be viable again... you'll have scoring and fisticuffs, and there won't be anymore headhunting or cheapshots least if there are either one of those they'll be taken care of quicker than they are now, and it'll be kept on ice instead of taken to the media and elsewhere .... granted acceptions always apply as in the mcsorley case

Quote:
I would simply increase the penalty. 1st fight of season, throw both players out of the game. 2nd fight of the season, out for the game + a one game suspension. And the suspensions go up from there
the fighting majors work just fine .... everyone knows the rules and rarely do they get pushed enough to get kicked, meaning the system isn't broken and we all know you don't fix something that aint broken..... well actually send that message to bettman, cause he obviously thought the system WAS broken

ok basically cleared up all i have to say on this in one post

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Old
03-14-2004, 12:58 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wazee
I would not ban fighting exactly. I would simply increase the penalty. 1st fight of season, throw both players out of the game. 2nd fight of the season, out for the game + a one game suspension. And the suspensions go up from there.
Go away.....if you don't like fighting don't try to ruin it for the 95% of real hockey fans that love it. NHL will never get rid of fighting.....it would lose soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many fans.

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Old
03-14-2004, 01:00 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PEli
Tell that to the 21,000 people standing and cheering for Domi and Langdon after their long fight in the first period of the Leafs/Habs game tonight. Fighting is exciting.

It does prevent more injuries than it causes. If fighting was outlawed, retribution would be handed out like it was handed out by Todd Bertuzzi this week. It's better for two guys to throw a few punches and get the animosity out of their system and their teammates' systems than see somebody get cheapshotted.
And if there was no fighting, what would you have? Oh that's right, 21,000 fans standing and cheering *the game* that they played tonight. It would make *zero* difference to the game, because body checking is exciting, scoring is exciting, great goaltending is exciting. *Hockey* is exciting, whether there's fighting or not.

Fighting does *nothing* to reduce animosities. In fact, it usually escalates it, and just leads to more fighting. The whole Bertuzzi thing happened *because of the atmosphere fighting propagates*. Moore hit Naslund, and the silly system then says that Vancouver now has to mete out justice to Moore. And because Moore declines to fight Bertuzzi (as is his right), Bertuzzi snaps because he now has no way of dishing it out as the "code" requires. Without the frontier justice mentality, the Bertuzzi thing never happens.

This league is *full* of cheap shots and dirty plays *constantly*. Fighting has never done anything to reduce it. And no, it's not because of the instigator, cheap shots and other crap have been going on for decades, long before the instigator came in around '96 or whenever it was.

Fighting has had it's chance to show what it can do, and it has failed miserably. It's time for the league to step up, and implement *harsh* suspensions for player actions. Knee somebody? Out for 10+ games. Stick or elbow to the head? Out for 10+ games. Vicious slash? Out for 10+ games.

*That* will stop the cheap shots.

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Old
03-14-2004, 01:13 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PecaFan
And if there was no fighting, what would you have? Oh that's right, 21,000 fans standing and cheering *the game* that they played tonight. It would make *zero* difference to the game, because body checking is exciting, scoring is exciting, great goaltending is exciting. *Hockey* is exciting, whether there's fighting or not.

Fighting does *nothing* to reduce animosities. In fact, it usually escalates it, and just leads to more fighting. The whole Bertuzzi thing happened *because of the atmosphere fighting propagates*. Moore hit Naslund, and the silly system then says that Vancouver now has to mete out justice to Moore. And because Moore declines to fight Bertuzzi (as is his right), Bertuzzi snaps because he now has no way of dishing it out as the "code" requires. Without the frontier justice mentality, the Bertuzzi thing never happens.

This league is *full* of cheap shots and dirty plays *constantly*. Fighting has never done anything to reduce it. And no, it's not because of the instigator, cheap shots and other crap have been going on for decades, long before the instigator came in around '96 or whenever it was.

Fighting has had it's chance to show what it can do, and it has failed miserably. It's time for the league to step up, and implement *harsh* suspensions for player actions. Knee somebody? Out for 10+ games. Stick or elbow to the head? Out for 10+ games. Vicious slash? Out for 10+ games.

*That* will stop the cheap shots.
Anaheim fan eh.....Now I understand your views

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Old
03-14-2004, 01:17 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
Go away.....if you don't like fighting don't try to ruin it for the 95% of real hockey fans that love it. NHL will never get rid of fighting.....it would lose soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many fans.
What a childish response.

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Old
03-14-2004, 01:26 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wazee
What a childish response.
It is childish becasue you know it is true. The majority of the fans in the league.....wait....the majority of fans in hockey cities love fighting and the league is not dumb enough to lose even more fan support in a time where the NHL is in rough times.

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Old
03-14-2004, 02:29 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa_Rules
Just like to know your opinions on this. After the the Bertuzzi hit this issue is out in the open again. Is fighting a legitimate part of hockey or senseless violence. I'm sure this question will spark some hot debate. Have at it!

Yeah, and get rid of hitting while they're at it

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Old
03-14-2004, 03:26 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
Anaheim fan eh.....Now I understand your views
Dumbass, eh?

He's not an Anaheim fan, he's just obsessed with them. But his post was absolutely correct.

Next time formulate your argument around the opinion, not the poster.

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Old
03-14-2004, 04:33 AM
  #40
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The Bertuzzi hit has nothing to do with fighting, that was just a cheap shot. I really don't understand why this issue is out in the open again because of this incident. Apart from the difference in skill...but the fighting part is exactly what makes the difference between the NHL and hockey in other countries.

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03-14-2004, 05:05 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frolov 6'3
The Bertuzzi hit has nothing to do with fighting, that was just a cheap shot. I really don't understand why this issue is out in the open again because of this incident. Apart from the difference in skill...but the fighting part is exactly what makes the difference between the NHL and hockey in other countries.
precisely, don't know why i didn't word it like this in my post woulda saved myself alot of time

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03-14-2004, 05:06 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa_Rules
Just like to know your opinions on this. After the the Bertuzzi hit this issue is out in the open again. Is fighting a legitimate part of hockey or senseless violence. I'm sure this question will spark some hot debate. Have at it!
You must be Ameriken..to even suggest a thing like this.....

 
Old
03-14-2004, 05:23 AM
  #43
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If the NHL banned fighting I'd stop watching it right away. And this can't be said enough, Bertuzzi's assault had nothing to do with fighting people. And if Worrell had skated with Moore on that shift he would have stopped Bertuzzi long before he threw that punch.

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Old
03-14-2004, 05:35 AM
  #44
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Fighting used to serve a purpose. It doesn't anymore. This isn't because it can't, its because it isn't allowed to. The instigator prevents players from policing themselves. That's not a problem if someone else is doing the policing properly, but they're not. People get away with cheap shots all the time. The problem isn't just the refs, but the nature of the sport. So much is happening so fast that it is easy for the ref to miss one thing. They aren't supposed to, but they're human so they do.

Fighting is supposed to be a way for players to police themselves when they feel that the official policing has been lacking. If you eliminate fighting and fail to basically perfect the reffing, there will be more and more cheap shots in retribution. They will just be very sneaky cheap shots. Instead of an enforcer, each team will have a player which excels and getting away with dirty plays. While this isn't the only possibility, it seems like the most likely one to me.

I don't need the fights to enjoy hockey. If you can improve the game by taking it out, go ahead. But I can't see how it improves the game.

P.S. I'm not counting marketability to non-traditional hockey markets as improving the game. If they don't want hockey, I've got no problems watching a niche sport.

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Old
03-14-2004, 09:25 AM
  #45
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Good post Superfluous U. I agree. I think they need to get rid of the instigator so it can serve its original purpose again. But the only way to stop cheapshots is to make the punishment for them so harsh that players are afraid to do it because they don't want to end up like the last guy who did it. Do whatever it takes to make them afraid. If the players can't control themselves and their emotions, somebody else will have to before somebody gets paralyzed or killed. When a player has a problem with another, the Code is to drop the gloves and take care of it. Guess what happens if you get rid of that? The players will take their revenge by doing what Bertuzzi did to Moore and worse. I don't know about you guys but I don't ever want to see anything like that again. That was disgusting. The League is going to have to stand up and make an example of someone to make players fear to end up like the last guy to do a cheapshot. That's the only way to stop it. It might take a death to make the League stand up. The way to settle it is to drop the gloves, not do a cheapshot and end a guys career. That's dishonorable and it's disgusting. If anybody on a street did what Bertuzzi did to Moore, he would be in jail. But not a hockey player. He's rich, famous. That shouldn't be. He should have to pay like everybody else. Do you think players are afraid to do cheapshots because of the punishment Bertuzzi got? No. The cheapshots will continue because they know they will get a slap on the wrist and that's it. Not much sacrifice and the player "sure got that guy back" didn't he. Somebody in the league has to stand up. This is enough.

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Old
03-14-2004, 09:30 AM
  #46
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Could really care less either way. I won't particularly miss fighting if it is banned, but it's no skin off my back if it stays. If they ever take hitting out of the game I'll miss it, but I have no such passion for fighting.


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Old
03-14-2004, 10:04 AM
  #47
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It's not a passion for fighting. It's a way for players to settle disputes without ending a player's career.

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03-14-2004, 10:11 AM
  #48
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Here's an insiders view. And as most people here should now, Ken Hitchcock is anything but a goon coach. The Ottawa game was very out of character for him. But given that Somik and Timander were attacked it's somewhat understandable. Generally though, he's one coach that discourages he's players from fighting much.

"There's a raging debate whether fighting is a part of our sport, a raging debate," Hitchcock said. "I've seen hockey (in college and in Europe), where if you fight you get suspended, and I've never seen more vicious hockey in my life. I've never seen such stickwork."

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03-14-2004, 10:13 AM
  #49
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Another quote:

"It all started when they put the instigator rule in place," Flyers right wing Mark Recchi said. "You didn't have guys like (Senators forward Martin) Havlat swinging a stick at your head before that. Now, you can't do anything because you're going to hurt your team. It makes it very tough for guys to respond and the players to police themselves."

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03-14-2004, 10:33 AM
  #50
wazee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
Go away.....if you don't like fighting don't try to ruin it for the 95% of real hockey fans that love it. NHL will never get rid of fighting.....it would lose soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many fans.
That was, and still is a childish response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
It is childish becasue you know it is true. The majority of the fans in the league.....wait....the majority of fans in hockey cities love fighting and the league is not dumb enough to lose even more fan support in a time where the NHL is in rough times.
No, Your response was childish because you show no tolerance for any view that disagrees with your own. I stated the reasons I am moving from being neutral about fighting to being against it in post #20 in this thread. I stated how I would do it in post #27. And your response was that I should ‘Go Away’. That is childish. It is also childish to claim you speak for 95% of hockey fans. If hockey banned fighting, it might lose some fans. IMO, it would gain far more. And…since I’ve been a hockey fan for a very long time, I am not going anywhere.

Grow up. Formulate logical arguments for your positions and realize that your opinion is no more valid that anyone elses.


Last edited by wazee: 03-14-2004 at 12:16 PM.
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