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Jean-Francois Bégin: coach next year should be... Gainey!

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Old
03-11-2009, 08:44 AM
  #1
Thinkaboutthat
 
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Jean-Francois Bégin: coach next year should be... Gainey!

For those who can read french, a good op-ed by La Presse columnist Jean-Francois Bégin
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/opinions/c...r-et-merci.php

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Old
03-11-2009, 08:53 AM
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You should precise that it's not Steve Begin in your title.

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Old
03-11-2009, 08:54 AM
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I think he is right that Gainey is probably the best candidate this side of Scotty Bowman.

But I don't think he can effectively do the coach/GM thing long term. Too much work, even if he has a ton of assistants.

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Old
03-11-2009, 08:55 AM
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I could live with having Gainey as Coach/GM with Jarvis, Lever and Muller backing him up on the bench and Julien Brisebois upstairs.

Though I have my doubts if Mulller will stick around, him having been brought in by Carbo and all, I hope he does though.

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03-11-2009, 09:00 AM
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I wish we could somehow pry Bowman(s) away from Chicago.

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Old
03-11-2009, 09:07 AM
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Keep Gainey behind the bench and find a GM that's a bit less conservative.

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Old
03-11-2009, 09:21 AM
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smon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tout ptit View Post
Keep Gainey behind the bench and find a GM that's a bit less conservative.
I doubt Gainey would stay then. Sure, you saw Pat Quinn accept a similar-style demotion in Toronto but he knew he was going to get fired ASAP.

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Old
03-11-2009, 09:23 AM
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Gainey as coach...
Scotty as GM.......

Perfect!

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Old
03-11-2009, 09:36 AM
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Whitesnake
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I agree with him. Gainey for next year. I doubt that Muller will stay and I doubt that Jarvis will go. Lever should and will stay not only 'cause he does seem from everybody a good hockey mind but also 'cause he paid his dues and deserves a NHL shot. Now, the "after Gainey" might be found by doing another move.....bring along a guy like Pascal Vincent on board. While in the process Lever might get his shot elsewhere in the league, a guy like Vincent who everybody in the Q already calls like a great hockey mind could end up being great for this team in the long run.

I personnally would do without Jarvis but I don't think Gainey will though that's what I thought about Carbo. Still believe 4 guys behind the bench is too much so my ideal lineup for the present and for the future and in order to have a great team and play the role of giving coaches a chance to evolve in their career would be Gainey-Lever-Vincent.

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03-11-2009, 09:40 AM
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"le CH doit maintenir la tradition d'embaucher un entraîneur francophone."

Translation

"The CH must maintain the tradition to hire a francophone coach"

Tradition?

Stanley cups won with a coach who was not francophone:

Dick Irvin 1943-1944
Dick Irvin 1945-1946
Dick Irvin 1952-1953
Toe Blake 1955-1956
Toe Blake 1956-1957
Toe Blake 1957-1958
Toe Blake 1958-1959
Toe Blake 1959-1960
Toe Blake 1964-1965
Toe Blake 1965-1966
Toe Blake 1967-1968
Al MacNeil 1970-1971
Scotty Bowman 1972-1973
Scotty Bowman 1975-1976
Scotty Bowman 1976-1977
Scotty Bowman 1977-1978
Scotty Bowman 1978-1979

So that's 17 out of 24 cups..

I will say this once. I hate people who use false statements to try and win an argument.. They loose all credibility.

Now it the best man available speak french, hire him. If the best men available does not, hire him. The NHL has 30 teams.. It's more competitive then ever.. You have to hire the guy who will win you games and the language of the NHL is ENGLISH...

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Old
03-11-2009, 09:46 AM
  #11
Whitesnake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belso View Post
"le CH doit maintenir la tradition d'embaucher un entraîneur francophone."

Translation

"The CH must maintain the tradition to hire a francophone coach"

Tradition?

Stanley cups won with a coach who was not francophone:

Dick Irvin 1943-1944
Dick Irvin 1945-1946
Dick Irvin 1952-1953
Toe Blake 1955-1956
Toe Blake 1956-1957
Toe Blake 1957-1958
Toe Blake 1958-1959
Toe Blake 1959-1960
Toe Blake 1964-1965
Toe Blake 1965-1966
Toe Blake 1967-1968
Al MacNeil 1970-1971
Scotty Bowman 1972-1973
Scotty Bowman 1975-1976
Scotty Bowman 1976-1977
Scotty Bowman 1977-1978
Scotty Bowman 1978-1979

So that's 17 out of 24 cups..

I will say this once. I hate people who use false statements to try and win an argument.. They loose all credibility.

Now it the best man available speak french, hire him. If the best men available does not, hire him. The NHL has 30 teams.. It's more competitive then ever.. You have to hire the guy who will win you games and the language of the NHL is ENGLISH...
Careful now....people can then prove by what you just brought out that finally the tradition is really about maybe having an anglo coach.....but with a lot more than 2 or 3 francos in the roster...

By the way, what he meant is that we should maintain the tradition in going with franco coaches.....didn't say All-time Habs tradition of going with franco coaches. He surely means that since the Lemaire era, there is a tradition going as far as Habs coaches are concerned.


Last edited by Whitesnake: 03-11-2009 at 10:01 AM.
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Old
03-11-2009, 09:51 AM
  #12
Naoned
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According to the Canadiens history website, Blake was bilingual.
http://ourhistory.canadiens.com/player/Toe-Blake

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Old
03-11-2009, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You should precise that it's not Steve Begin in your title.
X 2 ...


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Old
03-11-2009, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naoned View Post
According to the Canadiens history website, Blake was bilingual.
http://ourhistory.canadiens.com/player/Toe-Blake
Didn't Bowman also speak a bit of french too? He's from Montreal IIRC.

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Old
03-11-2009, 10:01 AM
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Belso
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naoned View Post
According to the Canadiens history website, Blake was bilingual.
http://ourhistory.canadiens.com/player/Toe-Blake
That's fine, but Begin didn't say the Canadiens should keep their tradition to hire bilingual a coach. He said a francophone coach. Francophone means his primary language was French.. Like Carbonneau. He was bilingual but was considered a francophone.

Again, I'd be glad to have A francophone coach, as long as they don't hire one instead of a better coach who speaks like Gainey in French. Worse case scenario, make him take french courses.

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Old
03-11-2009, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belso View Post
That's fine, but Begin didn't say the Canadiens should keep their tradition to hire bilingual a coach. He said a francophone coach. Francophone means his primary language was French.. Like Carbonneau. He was bilingual but was considered a francophone.

Again, I'd be glad to have A francophone coach, as long as they don't hire one instead of a better coach who speaks like Gainey in French. Worse case scenario, make him take french courses.
Bégin wrote that the coach must be able to communicate in french, not that he must be a francophone. Nuance.

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Old
03-11-2009, 10:12 AM
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Belso
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinkaboutthat View Post
Bégin wrote that the coach must be able to communicate in french, not that he must be a francophone. Nuance.
What does this say?

"le CH doit maintenir la tradition d'embaucher un entraîneur francophone"

My point is that it is not a tradition.. Don't start your article with a false statement. That's all...

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Old
03-11-2009, 10:16 AM
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Whitesnake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belso View Post
What does this say?

"le CH doit maintenir la tradition d'embaucher un entraîneur francophone"

My point is that it is not a tradition.. Don't start your article with a false statement. That's all...
He says it there.

Quote:
Par francophone, j'entends ce qu'en dit le Petit Robert: «qui parle habituellement le français, au moins dans certaines circonstances de la communication, comme langue première ou seconde». Pas besoin que son certificat de naissance soit frappé d'une fleur de lys ou qu'il puisse citer Jean Perron dans le texte. Juste qu'il puisse expliquer dans la langue de Claude Ruel pourquoi c'est Carey Price et non Jaroslav Halak qui est devant le but.

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Old
03-11-2009, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belso View Post
What does this say?

"le CH doit maintenir la tradition d'embaucher un entraîneur francophone"

My point is that it is not a tradition.. Don't start your article with a false statement. That's all...
It can be a 30 years old tradition.

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Old
03-11-2009, 10:28 AM
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Belso
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
He says it there.
No he twists the words around. he first makes a statement like "all fire trucks by tradition should red" and then says "when I mean red, I mean anywhere from yellow to orange."

What does francophone mean?

In general in Canada the word francophone means a French-speaking person. Statistics Canada uses the term francophone to mean someone whose mother tongue is French and who still speaks French.

http://canadaonline.about.com/cs/bil...rancophone.htm

Now all he had to say was that he believes it would be better by tradition to have a coach who could speak french to some extent. but he changed the meaning of francophone to make it sound like it was a tradition so people take his side...

I don't agree with that. I agree with what I wrote.

Edit: Just to point something out, I'm francophone..

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Old
03-11-2009, 10:32 AM
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Perfectly makes sense.

And bring Desjardins behind the bench.

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Old
03-11-2009, 10:33 AM
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Whitesnake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belso View Post
What does francophone mean?

In general in Canada the word francophone means a French-speaking person. Statistics Canada uses the term francophone to mean someone whose mother tongue is French and who still speaks French.

http://canadaonline.about.com/cs/bil...rancophone.htm

Now all he had to say was that he believes it would be better by tradition to have a coach who could speak french to some extent. but he changed the meaning of francophone to make it sound like it was a tradition so people take his side...

I don't agree with that. I agree with what I wrote.
Of course you agree with what you wrote 'cause....you wrote it. So you're going with the canadaonline definition and he seems to go with the Le Petit Robert definition what is wrong with that? He even explained it so it will be clear? Why would people only read the first 2 sentences of an article in order to agree or disagree with somebody? How about reading the whole article? He explained what he meant and you criticize him for it? You would have been right to do so if in one article he would have come with the francophone thing and then a day or 2 after would have explained himself....then you would have been able to think that he got blasted and tried to cover his ass. But he does it 1 paragraph later....

And then you have a problem with the way he used "tradition"....okay he should've used "habitude". If he would've meant francophone as in "mother tongue", habitude might have been the right word since Lemaire it's been all francos. But then since he meant speaking at least a little french, if even Bowman and Blake spoke it.....

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Old
03-11-2009, 11:06 AM
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Belso
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
He says it there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Of course you agree with what you wrote 'cause....you wrote it. So you're going with the canadaonline definition and he seems to go with the Le Petit Robert definition what is wrong with that? He even explained it so it will be clear? Why would people only read the first 2 sentences of an article in order to agree or disagree with somebody? How about reading the whole article? He explained what he meant and you criticize him for it? You would have been right to do so if in one article he would have come with the francophone thing and then a day or 2 after would have explained himself....then you would have been able to think that he got blasted and tried to cover his ass. But he does it 1 paragraph later....
Yes I know I will agree with what I wrote because I didn't change the meaning of words. I have no issue with his argument for a coach who can communicate in french. I had an issue with the statement in bold which is false and I think it's misleading and it is hard to have credibility for anyone who does this..

I have Le Robert open in front of me right now. Let's see what I read...

"Francophone adj, Qui parle habituellement le francais."

who usually speaks french.

Here is another definition.
http://www.le-dictionnaire.com/defin...ot=francophone

Someone who usually speaks french. Same as le Robert.

Here's another.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francophone

I have the same opinion, for example, with Don Cherry when he says things like calling Hamrlik and the two Kostitsyns "3 Russians". What ever he had to say after lost credibility.

I know what francophone means. I have no clue where he got his definition from.. The first 4 I looked at clearly states someone who dominates in french. The 17 coach's above who won cups did not dominate in french from what I know. They were either Bilingual or anglophone with some knowledge of french.

If Begin's definition stands, I guess you can argue that Gainey is francophone because he can communicate in french and explain why Price is in nets instead of Halak.

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Old
03-11-2009, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Of course you agree with what you wrote 'cause....you wrote it. So you're going with the canadaonline definition and he seems to go with the Le Petit Robert definition what is wrong with that? He even explained it so it will be clear? Why would people only read the first 2 sentences of an article in order to agree or disagree with somebody? How about reading the whole article? He explained what he meant and you criticize him for it? You would have been right to do so if in one article he would have come with the francophone thing and then a day or 2 after would have explained himself....then you would have been able to think that he got blasted and tried to cover his ass. But he does it 1 paragraph later....

And then you have a problem with the way he used "tradition"....okay he should've used "habitude". If he would've meant francophone as in "mother tongue", habitude might have been the right word since Lemaire it's been all francos. But then since he meant speaking at least a little french, if even Bowman and Blake spoke it.....
Regardless, why does it matter that anyone in the organization speak french? Sure it's a plus, but it's 2009! We've got blacks, whites, russians and americans, heck we've even got native americans and asians playing in this league. Why do these bigots still have the right to cover the Habs? I don't care if our next coach is a Chinese speaking muslim from mexico who grew up a die-hard Bruins fan. If the guy can coach then he should be hired. They can always translate their interviews until he learns the generic responses, no?

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Old
03-11-2009, 11:16 AM
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It can be a 30 years old tradition.
ya how many cups in the last 30 years? how mant before that ?

ok

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