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The makeup of the team

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Old
03-12-2009, 11:36 AM
  #26
Whaddagoal
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Originally Posted by 007 View Post
Actually, there are always ifs, ands and buts about it. Ethnicity, citizenship and nationality very often have blurred lines. It comes down to how the individual identifies him or herself.

I have a friend, 100% Greek of origin, but his family have lived in Italy for 3 generations. Is he Greek or Italian? My aunt who was Lebanese, born and raised in Egypt, married a Greek from Switzerland who's family were from Marseille. Their daughter was born and has lived her whole life in Geneva. How is anyone else going to tell her "what" she is? Personally, I hold two passports and legally qualify for two more. It's up to me to decide who I am.

Back in hockey, look at Josef Boumedienne. What is he? Algerian father, Finnish mother, born and raised in Sweden. Or Tommy Salo, 100% Finnish, but born and raised in Sweden.

Unless you have it straight from Antropov or Zherdev themselves, all you can do is tell the whole story. I think all you can say is that Zherdev is Ukranian/Russian and Antropov is a Kazakhstani of Russian origin.
Right, I do agree it gets difficult when you're many generations deep living in another country and\or if you are mixed ethnicities (like the Greeks living in Italy example)... and I also agree that no one can really say who you are, but yourself, so Ill retract the "no ifs ands or buts.."

I guess my main point is, the word, "Kazakh", itself by definition denotes ethnicity and people most often use it like we use the term "American", which is generally incorrect. Antropov doesn't look like he has any "Kazakh" ethnicity in him whatsoever. Of course that is my interperation of what I see, and I could be very wrong, but he doesn't look close to any of the ethnic Kazakh's I have met.

Last to the point, I don't know any ethnic Russians from Kazakhstan who would call themselves "Kazakh", just because they lived or grew up in Kazakhstan. Again it is a personal decisions as you said, but the usage of the word itself in English and Russian completely implies that they are people derived from a certain Mongolian/Turkic/Asiatic descent and by claiming they are Kazakh they would be associating themselves with a totally different heritage history and culture/background, language, and everything.....of which they are certainly not.

Anyway theres too much history and semantics usgage and other unrelated hockey things here, so ill stop here.

Ill agree with your last line that it is safe to say he is of Russian origin who holds Kazakhstan citizenship

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Old
03-12-2009, 12:41 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
I GOT IT!! This is a Russian and American dominated team. With Zherdev and Antropov then AA and Grachev to come. Add to that other Russians (as discussed in other threads) Korpikoski, Dubinsky and Gomez, and this team is for sure, looking very Russian. Then there are existing US natives like Callahan and Mara with other US natives like Sangs on the way. Add to that that most Canadians are displaced Americans who fled during Vietnam and it only leaves a hand full of Czechs and Swedes that aren't Russian or American.

Wait wasn't Sweden and Finland the same country once? If Fins are Russian and Swedes and Fins are the same, then the Swedes must be Russian too.

Wait....cold war era most of Eastern Europe was for all intensive purposes part of the Soviet Union so that would take in the Czechs then part of Czechoslovakia.

So really I guess the whole team is just Americans and Russians.

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03-12-2009, 02:42 PM
  #28
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I don't care where the Rangers players are from - as long as they produce.

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Old
03-12-2009, 03:56 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whaddagoal View Post
Right, I do agree it gets difficult when you're many generations deep living in another country and\or if you are mixed ethnicities (like the Greeks living in Italy example)... and I also agree that no one can really say who you are, but yourself, so Ill retract the "no ifs ands or buts.."

I guess my main point is, the word, "Kazakh", itself by definition denotes ethnicity and people most often use it like we use the term "American", which is generally incorrect. Antropov doesn't look like he has any "Kazakh" ethnicity in him whatsoever. Of course that is my interperation of what I see, and I could be very wrong, but he doesn't look close to any of the ethnic Kazakh's I have met.

Last to the point, I don't know any ethnic Russians from Kazakhstan who would call themselves "Kazakh", just because they lived or grew up in Kazakhstan. Again it is a personal decisions as you said, but the usage of the word itself in English and Russian completely implies that they are people derived from a certain Mongolian/Turkic/Asiatic descent and by claiming they are Kazakh they would be associating themselves with a totally different heritage history and culture/background, language, and everything.....of which they are certainly not.

Anyway theres too much history and semantics usgage and other unrelated hockey things here, so ill stop here.

Ill agree with your last line that it is safe to say he is of Russian origin who holds Kazakhstan citizenship
I think we're actually on the same page.

I have to admit, I love the fact that, as hockey fans, we can actually have this discussion, though. Just through being a hockey fan, you have to know something about world geography.

Plus, how many basketball fans can tell you where Moose Jaw is?

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Old
03-12-2009, 06:32 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by 007 View Post
I think we're actually on the same page.

I have to admit, I love the fact that, as hockey fans, we can actually have this discussion, though. Just through being a hockey fan, you have to know something about world geography.

Plus, how many basketball fans can tell you where Moose Jaw is?
Never mind Moose Jaw, I've met basketball(or other non-hockey) fans that couldn't tell you where San Jose, Ottawa or Edomonton are....hockey fans are just smarter!

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Old
03-12-2009, 07:15 PM
  #31
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I think Shanny is a US citizen, too....
Shanny is without a doubt, Canadian through and through

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