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Burke going for 1st overall pick for 2009?

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Old
03-12-2009, 04:01 PM
  #51
Scrambllllle
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Wouldn't 29 GMs be trying to get the 1st overall?

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Old
03-12-2009, 04:03 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrambllllle View Post
Wouldn't 29 GMs be trying to get the 1st overall?
No, I'd say most GMs are trying to win the cup.

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Old
03-12-2009, 04:07 PM
  #53
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Toronto should trade away Kraperle and Kubina first. See what they get out of the deal as in picks and prospects and then call around. A team like the Isles has no use for Kraperle or Kubina but if the Leafs were to offer high end picks and or prospects GM Snow may atleast listen.

If Toronto wants to grab Tavares they will have to offer a boatload. 2-3 first round picks and a couple of high end prospect talents.

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Old
03-12-2009, 04:54 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OLUSAF View Post
hypothetical situation

1.NYI
2.TB

7.Toronto

To TB
Kaberle
7th overall

To NYI
2nd overall
TOR 1st 2010
+ package of lower picks

To TOR
1st overall

doesnt seem unrealistic to me....dont see it happening though
Do you honestly think that adding Kaberle to the Lightning makes them a legit heavy-weight contender in the eastern conference next year? Because that the only way they pass up on Tavares/Hedman.

Even then - if the Isle think like Tavares has a significantly higher upside than Hedman- there is no chance that they move the pick. I do think that if the Isle are about "even" on both guys - it wouldn't take an insane package to move from 2 to 1.

The real issue is that whoever ends up at 29th overall is going to have a lot holes to fill than Kaberle can address, and 2 years just isn't much time for a team like that to turn it around.

Also - remember what Cammelleri went for last year? If I remember correctly - 1 year of Cammelleri was only worth moving up from 18-19th to 13th. Kaberle's obviosly worth more based on 2 contract years, but the earlier you go in the draft the cost goes way up.

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Old
03-12-2009, 04:56 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by thegame20024 View Post
Who here thinks he will try and land the 1st pick, menaing what do you think he will have to give up to get it.....what will it take, post your thoughts.

it has been a roumour going around that he will try and aquire it...what do you think??
who cares if he tries, he simply does not have the assets!

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Old
03-12-2009, 04:58 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
Do you honestly think that adding Kaberle to the Lightning makes them a legit heavy-weight contender in the eastern conference next year? Because that the only way they pass up on Tavares/Hedman.

Even then - if the Isle think like Tavares has a significantly higher upside than Hedman- there is no chance that they move the pick. I do think that if the Isle are about "even" on both guys - it wouldn't take an insane package to move from 2 to 1.

The real issue is that whoever ends up at 29th overall is going to have a lot holes to fill than Kaberle can address, and 2 years just isn't much time for a team like that to turn it around.

Also - remember what Cammelleri went for last year? If I remember correctly - 1 year of Cammelleri was only worth moving up from 18-19th to 13th. Kaberle's obviosly worth more based on 2 contract years, but the earlier you go in the draft the cost goes way up.
Cammalleri cost a mid first round pick last year.

Edit: http://flames.nhl.com/team/app/?serv...ticleid=366471

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Old
03-12-2009, 05:21 PM
  #57
leaflover
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Is this thread and subsequent talk based on anything other than the passing thought of a youngster?

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Old
03-12-2009, 05:28 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
Do you honestly think that adding Kaberle to the Lightning makes them a legit heavy-weight contender in the eastern conference next year? Because that the only way they pass up on Tavares/Hedman.
I think the Lighting are better than they are this year, with that said if they could fill a D spot with Kaberle and plug a player on 2nd & 3rd line through Free Agency then they could very well be a contender next year. Mike Smith is capable of the job, trust me.

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Old
03-12-2009, 05:39 PM
  #59
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If you guys think the Lightning are gonna pass on Victor Hedman for Kaberle and a 1st then you are on acid!

If the Lightning have the 1st overall pick, Toronto better be ready to trade Kaberle, Schenn, and their 1st for it. If not, the Lightning dont care. They either draft Hedman and be extremely happy. Or they draft Tavares and trade Vinny for a package way better than the one Toronto wanted to give.

Its a win-win for the Bolts. The Leafs either overpay, or they dont get it. Simple as that. They have no control of the matter.

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Old
03-12-2009, 05:47 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leaflover View Post
Is this thread and subsequent talk based on anything other than the passing thought of a youngster?
now whats the point of argueing like an idiot of your gonna talk common sense. if you wanna bring somthing to this discussion, you have to talk out your ass.

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Old
03-13-2009, 12:40 AM
  #61
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"Rabble Rabble Rabble...Whole roster worthless...All Leaf fans dumb...AHL team...etc"

Looks about right.

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Old
03-13-2009, 01:07 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OLUSAF View Post
hypothetical situation

1.NYI
2.TB

7.Toronto

To TB
Kaberle
7th overall

To NYI
2nd overall
TOR 1st 2010
+ package of lower picks

To TOR
1st overall

doesnt seem unrealistic to me....dont see it happening though
I'd pull the trigger almost right away and build around Hedman, using some of the lower picks with the SJ 1st and 2nds to move up again. I'd also be willing to roll the dice that a team like Toronto will be in a similar position next year and we'd have two top-ten picks. Certainly not a trade Toronto would (or should) be crazy enough to do.

Not sure Tampa would do it, but they may well still think they're in win-now mode next year and can use Kaberle.

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Old
03-13-2009, 01:24 AM
  #63
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max id give up for first overall is kaberle + 1st + 2nd.

anything more than that and its simply not worth it.

id much rather trade kaberle for a mid to late first and go into next season with luke schenn, evander kane, and zack kassian lets say.

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Old
03-13-2009, 04:40 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarinerIslanderSean View Post
I'd pull the trigger almost right away and build around Hedman, using some of the lower picks with the SJ 1st and 2nds to move up again. I'd also be willing to roll the dice that a team like Toronto will be in a similar position next year and we'd have two top-ten picks. Certainly not a trade Toronto would (or should) be crazy enough to do.

Not sure Tampa would do it, but they may well still think they're in win-now mode next year and can use Kaberle.
Why would Tampa do that when they can build around Hedman?

The only way this works is if NYI takes Hedman, then and only then can I see Tampa trading down

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Old
03-13-2009, 05:17 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
Do you honestly think that adding Kaberle to the Lightning makes them a legit heavy-weight contender in the eastern conference next year? Because that the only way they pass up on Tavares/Hedman.

Even then - if the Isle think like Tavares has a significantly higher upside than Hedman- there is no chance that they move the pick. I do think that if the Isle are about "even" on both guys - it wouldn't take an insane package to move from 2 to 1.

The real issue is that whoever ends up at 29th overall is going to have a lot holes to fill than Kaberle can address, and 2 years just isn't much time for a team like that to turn it around.
Also - remember what Cammelleri went for last year? If I remember correctly - 1 year of Cammelleri was only worth moving up from 18-19th to 13th. Kaberle's obviosly worth more based on 2 contract years, but the earlier you go in the draft the cost goes way up.


Totally agree. This is why Kaberle is worth MUCH less than Schenn or any top prospect in trying to get a deal like this done.

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Old
03-13-2009, 05:47 AM
  #66
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does tampon bay even own torontos first round pick in 2010?
( thats an honest question folks, because i have no idea )

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Old
03-13-2009, 08:08 AM
  #67
grabo84
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Originally Posted by bones21212 View Post
does tampon bay even own torontos first round pick in 2010?
( thats an honest question folks, because i have no idea )
It was a three way trade.

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Old
03-13-2009, 08:17 AM
  #68
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Oh boy, people are overrating the 1st overall pick (tavares) pretty harshly. I mean, i dont care what player the 1st overall is, but no way its ever worth Kaberle, Schenn and bottom team's 1st. This is just hilarious

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03-13-2009, 08:24 AM
  #69
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to the OP: NO

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Old
03-13-2009, 08:30 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by dubey View Post
When was the last time you checked? When he was 16? Because the only place you'll ever hear that now is on HFboards.

And I wouldn't say the pick won't be moved because anything can happen in this league - but I'm positive a deal between the Islanders/Leafs will not happen if NYI wins the lottery. I mean I don't consider Ryan Getzlaf generational talent, or even elite, but I'm 100% positive the Islanders wouldn't even need to think about trading the 1st overall for him or any big young scoring centre. Would the Ducks do it? Not a chance.
Tavares at 18 is as highly touted as Ovechkin and Malkin were at 18......if you think otherwise then you're on something.

You think the Isles would deal Tavares for Getzlaf? You seem so sure about that. Getzlaf is a great player but I can understand why Snow wouldn't make the trade. Getzlaf is an upper echelon player but JT still has the potential to be one of the best players in the world. You may want to use the argument that it's just potential but every player that gets drafted is "just" potential. When a player has the potential to be a generational talent, it's not easy to pass up on especially with current history in regards to AO, Malkin and Sid. JT could come into the league and be 25 goal scorer for the next 10 years and dealing him for a Getzlaf would definantly be a smart move for the Isles but what if he comes into the league and scores 50 goals a season for the next 10 years? You are so quick to put the player down and downplay his potential but yet you ignore what his ceiling is?

Then you ask if the Ducks would make the trade and the obvious answer is no but thats because of circumstance. The Ducks are a borderline playoff team right now and Getzlaf is yet to hit the prime of his career and he is already their most important player. The Isles are the worst team in the league and building for the future, this first overall pick (John Tavares) is going to be their most important player.

I respect your opinion a great deal Dubey and I think you are one of the better Leafs poster around here but I think we can sit here all day and argue and we would never get anywhere. I am not one of those that overrates draft picks and prospects but at the same time I realize their worth to a team. Someone like JT has immense value to a franchise like the Isles. If we are talking the Lightning, Thrashers, etc. there is a small possibility that pick could be moved for a great package but not the Isles. This is a franchise extremely desperate for a face. They need a glimmer of hope for the future and Tavares provides that right now.

So let's just end the argument here because deep inside we know the pick is not getting moved anyway.

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Old
03-13-2009, 08:32 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4rde View Post
Oh boy, people are overrating the 1st overall pick (tavares) pretty harshly. I mean, i dont care what player the 1st overall is, but no way its ever worth Kaberle, Schenn and bottom team's 1st. This is just hilarious
You are right but thats the price. Look at what the Flyers gave up for Lindros. You think Schenn, Kabby and a 1st is bad?

That was the last time a highly touted first overall pick was moved. Teams don't trade away first overall picks.

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03-13-2009, 08:39 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by AlMo View Post
Teams don't trade away first overall picks.
And you gonna wonder why, because no one is willing to give price like Kaberle, Schenn and 1st.

Lindros was whole different story, he didnt want to play for the Nordiques that drafted him and thats why the highest bidder won. The price was very high, but everyone was very high on him and he was supposed to be "the next one". And the times were different then, teams could heavily overpay, they dont do that anymore.

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03-13-2009, 08:45 AM
  #73
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I think they'd be better off to just draft Kane or the other Schenn. A team doesn't need a Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin to win a cup, and there is little guarantee that Tavares will be anything close to them. Sometimes, an Eric Staal, or an Andy MacDonald, or whoever else with a solid goalie is good enough.

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03-13-2009, 08:47 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by 4rde View Post
And you gonna wonder why, because no one is willing to give price like Kaberle, Schenn and 1st.

Lindros was whole different story, he didnt want to play for the Nordiques that drafted him and thats why the highest bidder won. The price was very high, but everyone was very high on him and he was supposed to be "the next one". And the times were different then, teams could heavily overpay, they dont do that anymore.
Exactly......the team holding the first overall pick would want a kings ransom. I really don't see what your argument is here. I don't "wonder why" at all, I know exactly why. If you ain't willing to give up a boatload then forget it about.

Lindros refused to play for the Nords, in theory his value should have went down because he forced the Nordiques hand. If he was willing to play for Quebec, he would have never been dealt. Do you honestly think if JT came out and said he wouldn't play there, the Isles would take Kabby and a 7th overall pick? I highly doubt that. 29 other teams in the league would start the bidding and I would imgaine the Isles would find something alot better than Kaberle and a 7th overall pick.

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Old
03-13-2009, 08:50 AM
  #75
kyle evs48
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Originally Posted by AlMo View Post
Exactly......the team holding the first overall pick would want a kings ransom. I really don't see what your argument is here. I don't "wonder why" at all, I know exactly why. If you ain't willing to give up a boatload then forget it about.

Lindros refused to play for the Nords, in theory his value should have went down because he forced the Nordiques hand. If he was willing to play for Quebec, he would have never been dealt. Do you honestly think if JT came out and said he wouldn't play there, the Isles would take Kabby and a 7th overall pick? I highly doubt that. 29 other teams in the league would start the bidding and I would imgaine the Isles would find something alot better than Kaberle and a 7th overall pick.
Of course they could get better for Tavares, the all-time leading goalscorer in OHL history, if I'm correct.

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