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The Post Kovalev Era

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Old
03-14-2009, 01:18 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mabus View Post
I don't understand "fans" like you who want us to lose our best players all the time.

Kovalev does not keep our kids down, if anything he makes them look better with great passes. He also has helped the Kostitsyn and the other russian kids on the team out by taking them under his wing actively off the ice, giving them advice on the bench and so on.

I don't understand the hate some people have for our players sometimes.
I also don't want to resign Kovalev but not for similar reasons. He's getting old and he's becoming too expensive for what he brings. The time is right for him to go and for the kids to take his spot. Same with Lang, I loved him this year but he is also near 39-40 years old. Unless he takes a significant and I mean SIGNIFICANT pay cut, he's just not part of the future whatsoever. If we hold on to Kovalev because we are too dependant then we are in serious trouble. He's having a tough year now, next year he'll be a bit older, a bit slower... I don't want to know what a 38 year old Kovalev will be like

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Old
03-14-2009, 01:28 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by mabus View Post
This is the strawman, no one is doing any such thing. They're simply saying he's a good player who contributes to the team.
That's not what we're reading here... strawman!


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Originally Posted by mabus View Post
Then why do all his teammates say he is? Why do they say he's always the last one off the ice? Why do they say he is personally mentoring the young russians on the team? Why did they give him the A?
Do you have a link to that false claim? Would his teammates say that he's not when having a mic in their face? Gainey and Carbonneau gave Kovalev the "A" and then the "C" in an attempt to motivate him. It worked last year, not so much this year, did it?


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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You can say he's a cancer. You can say what you will about him.
But that Plekanec instance is ridiculous, seriously.

It just goes to show how pathetic it can be in Mtl.

Kovalev manages to get the puck out but instead of risking a cross ice pass in fear of getting it intercepted (which was very possible as a player was there), he shoots.
Now the media jumps on his case.

Imagine if Kovalev would have attempted that pass and missed. Only for them to come back to score. You know the media would have jumped on his back again.

The guy can never win, we criticize at the first chance we get, for little things as much as SCORING instead of passing. Like seriously..I know you hate him but come on now..

It's not like it was a 2 on 0 and he decided to hog it.
You're once again wrong in your theory as there was no cross ice pass in the example that I was providing. Plekanec cut in front of Kovalev entering the neutral zone, ahead of him and had to stop at the blue line to avoid an off-side... I even had a frame by frame clearly showing that point back when it happened. And that's just one of many examples. When we take off the rose glasses, Kovalev is a selfish player.

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Old
03-14-2009, 01:35 PM
  #103
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I normally am not pro the "let's just accept we disagree and move on" on message boards, but seriously, we have this argument with Asterix every three days

Enough already!

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03-14-2009, 01:37 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Lucius View Post
I normally am not pro the "let's just accept we disagree and move on" on message boards, but seriously, we have this argument with Asterix every three days

Enough already!
And we'll have it as long as this SOB is on our team.

But rest assured that it's done in no disrespect to you or the others who disagree with me though, let's make that clear.

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Old
03-14-2009, 01:42 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
... can't start soon enough!
It started in the last game vs the Islanders, what a performence by our amazing offensive group!

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03-14-2009, 01:43 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
You're once again wrong in your theory as there was no cross ice pass in the example that I was providing. Plekanec cut in front of Kovalev entering the neutral zone, ahead of him and had to stop at the blue line to avoid an off-side... I even had a frame by frame clearly showing that point back when it happened. And that's just one of many examples. When we take off the rose glasses, Kovalev is a selfish player.
I know it wasn't a cross ice and was sure you were going to focus on that. English is my 2nd language, so sometimes I mess up my words.

But bottom line is there was an opposing player in the mix. It wasn't a little innocent puck tap up front to Pleky with no risk of interference.

Kovalev was in a better and safer position to make the shot. A little mistake from a pass could have turned into a goal as we've seen many times in the NHL. You have a variety of examples you can use to diss Kovalev. This one is really pushing it as you're criticizing him for SCORING instead of passing.

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03-14-2009, 01:50 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I know it wasn't a cross ice and was sure you were going to focus on that. English is my 2nd language, so sometimes I mess up my words.

But bottom line is there was an opposing player in the mix. It wasn't a little innocent puck tap up front to Pleky with no risk of interference.

Kovalev was in a better and safer position to make the shot. A little mistake from a pass could have turned into a goal as we've seen many times in the NHL. You have a variety of examples you can use to diss Kovalev. This one is really pushing it as you're criticizing him for SCORING instead of passing.
Sorry Asterix, I agree with Kriss on this play. Sure Kovalev could have made the effort to pass to Plekanec. But in this situation he took the higher percentage play. I will never fault a player for making this choice.

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Old
03-14-2009, 01:55 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Do you have a link to that false claim? Would his teammates say that he's not when having a mic in their face? Gainey and Carbonneau gave Kovalev the "A" and then the "C" in an attempt to motivate him. It worked last year, not so much this year, did it?.
Do you have proof that he is a so called "Cancer" or that he is not a good teammate. Seems like Lang was very happy that Kovalev was here.

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Old
03-14-2009, 02:34 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
It started in the last game vs the Islanders, what a performence by our amazing offensive group!
We would have scored on that 5 on 3 if he was playing. People tend to forget the other teams focus on Kovalev a lot leaving space to other players. Without Kovalev, we're screwed.

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Originally Posted by lchange View Post
Do you have proof that he is a so called "Cancer" or that he is not a good teammate. Seems like Lang was very happy that Kovalev was here.
Every ex-teammate of Kovalev says he's a great locker room guy.

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Old
03-14-2009, 03:05 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Do you have a link to that false claim? Would his teammates say that he's not when having a mic in their face? Gainey and Carbonneau gave Kovalev the "A" and then the "C" in an attempt to motivate him. It worked last year, not so much this year, did it?
Unless I am mistaken, the Habs vote for their captains (remember the year there was a tie and we had two captains, carbonneau and muller if memory serves me).

As for this year, he's 2nd on the team in scoring. It SEEMS to be working fine unless you're suggesting anyone but the scoring leader is lazy and useless (And I guess that includes Koivu who has fewer points).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
You're once again wrong in your theory as there was no cross ice pass in the example that I was providing. Plekanec cut in front of Kovalev entering the neutral zone, ahead of him and had to stop at the blue line to avoid an off-side... I even had a frame by frame clearly showing that point back when it happened. And that's just one of many examples. When we take off the rose glasses, Kovalev is a selfish player.
You completely ignored the issue. If he's a selfish player (as you claim) why does he consistantly end up 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, in team scoring (past ten years now) and why does he often end up with 2x more assists than goals?

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Old
03-14-2009, 03:12 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mabus View Post
Unless I am mistaken, the Habs vote for their captains (remember the year there was a tie and we had two captains, carbonneau and muller if memory serves me).

As for this year, he's 2nd on the team in scoring. It SEEMS to be working fine unless you're suggesting anyone but the scoring leader is lazy and useless (And I guess that includes Koivu who has fewer points).



You completely ignored the issue. If he's a selfish player (as you claim) why does he consistantly end up 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, in team scoring (past ten years now) and why does he often end up with 2x more assists than goals?
It's funny since all of Koivu, Lang and Tanguay have a better PPG then Kovalev, and yet people stress that he's 2nd on the team in scoring because all of the above were injured for a fair bit.

Look at the bigger picture, we have better team players.

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Old
03-14-2009, 03:18 PM
  #112
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Pardon me, Fish, but I was being facetious... they did make this silly argument at the time and I'm sure that many here would have nodded with approval at Houle's quick dispatch of such alleged failures... quick excising of so-called cancers and non-serious players.

It's good to see that Gainey does not act in such a manner, to the dismay clearly of many here... their zeal to get rid of "SOBs" - well, I suppose they are mad that Ribeiro was removed perhaps mistakenly though I am of the opinion that doing so was correct... they gave him two playoffs to fail, not just one!

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Old
03-14-2009, 03:23 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
It's funny since all of Koivu, Lang and Tanguay have a better PPG then Kovalev, and yet people stress that he's 2nd on the team in scoring because all of the above were injured for a fair bit.

Look at the bigger picture, we have better team players.
If all 4 played the whole season, heres what they would be on pace for.

Kovalev: 59 points
Koivu: 61 points
Lang: 64 points
Tanguay: 62 points

Not much of a difference between any of them, now is there?

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Old
03-14-2009, 03:30 PM
  #114
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The dual captains were Chelios and Carbonneau for 1989-90 following the retirement of Bob Gainey... Carbonneau became the only captain after that trade that people would rather forget during the off-season in 1990. Carbonneau was followed by Keane after the middle-finger at the golf course incident in 1994, and Keane replaced by Turgeon following another infamous trade in 1995... Damphousse replaced Turgeon after another bad trade in 1996... and in 1999 Saku Koivu took over after Damphousse was sent to the Sharks during one of those impending UFA purges... Koivu's runner-up in the vote was Shayne Corson.

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Old
03-14-2009, 04:11 PM
  #115
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That's it Chelios and Carbonneau, and yeah that trade was brutal. Imagine if we'd had Chelios here all this time still (And Roy), and had not dismantled the team under Houle. Sigh.... how many more cups would we have won.

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Old
03-14-2009, 04:51 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by panorama01 View Post
Pardon me, Fish, but I was being facetious... they did make this silly argument at the time and I'm sure that many here would have nodded with approval at Houle's quick dispatch of such alleged failures... quick excising of so-called cancers and non-serious players.

It's good to see that Gainey does not act in such a manner, to the dismay clearly of many here... their zeal to get rid of "SOBs" - well, I suppose they are mad that Ribeiro was removed perhaps mistakenly though I am of the opinion that doing so was correct... they gave him two playoffs to fail, not just one!
don't worry, I figured out you were being fecetious, hence why I facepalmed myself

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Old
03-14-2009, 05:05 PM
  #117
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I REALLY hope you mean FACEtious

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Old
03-14-2009, 05:06 PM
  #118
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Anyone that thinks the team is better off without Kovalev is delusional

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03-14-2009, 05:07 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Agreed...a guy like Kostopoulos has to go balls out on every shift, or else, he wouldn't have a job in the NHL. Kovalev doesn't have to and that's not his game, but it doesn't mean he doesn't have the team's best interests at heart.

The whole thing about Kovalev's perceived attitude and lazyness has more to do with stereotypes that are perpetuated by media types. If Kovalev played the exact same way but was a good ol' Canadian boy, you wouldn't hear this stuff about him. I've heard alot of players who have played with Kovalev and they all say that he was a great teamate, but that he had a peculiar attitude...not a negative one, but just a different one.

That being said, I do think that Kovalev's peculiar attitude is sometimes counter-productive in a team environment and that's what's hurt him throughout his career.

This is it.

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03-14-2009, 05:13 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by mabus View Post
I REALLY hope you mean FACEtious
haha yes, yes I do.

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Old
03-14-2009, 05:14 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by mrCoffea View Post
Anyone that thinks the team is better off without Kovalev is delusional
Really? I think anyone who thinks the Habs are lost without Kovalev are delusional

The only player on the Habs who IMO, is nearly irreplaceable (meaning, it would be near impossible to find another player who could replace him) is Markov.

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Old
03-14-2009, 05:17 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
Picture that embarrassement we called a 2 full minute 5 on 3 last night and that's what this team looks like without Kovalev.

I hope he re-signs here and finishes his career in Montreal where he belongs. It's not like he's going to cost an arm and a leg and anytime you make it to the playoffs with a workhorse and leader like Alex Kovalev you have a chance at beating anybody.

Having said that, he's taken a few bonehead penalties I could do without lately. But overall, this team has enough trouble scoring as is. Without Kovy in the lineup like last night we looked lost offensively and we were easily contained.
This.

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Old
03-14-2009, 05:27 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Kovalev's been a PPG player once in 5 years with the Habs...he's not the superstar Habs fans think he is. Losing him, will only allow other players to blossom IMO.
I don't get why some are saying that if we lose Kovalev, we have to replace him with ANOTHER superstar??? You can't replace, what you never had...and what the Habs never had, was a bonafide superstar. Kovalev's only a superstar in MTL...

Disclaimer...just because I'd rather the Habs not re-sign him (and Koivu) does not mean I hate Kovalev or don't think he's a good player. I just obviously don't think he's as great as most here
What's with this PPG stuff? In the past 4 years only Koivu has even surpassed the 70 point mark. This is Kovy's 4th full season with the team, and he's led the team in scoring 2 of those 3 years (of course, we all know he's second this year, but the critics persist).

Look around the league, how many playoff teams have leading scorers who make as little as 4.5 mil? Tanguay makes more and is younger, yet Kovy has more of an impact. Especially in the playoffs where Kovy is practically that PPG player many fans demand.

65 points per year and stellar play in the playoffs for 4.5 mil sounds like a good deal.

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Old
03-14-2009, 05:35 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
It's funny since all of Koivu, Lang and Tanguay have a better PPG then Kovalev, and yet people stress that he's 2nd on the team in scoring because all of the above were injured for a fair bit.

Look at the bigger picture, we have better team players.
What about the fact that Kovy managed to amass that point total without support from those injured players for many games? It's harder to score when the other weapons are unavailable. Does anyone on this board think that teams key on Tanguay the way they do Kovy (I like Tanguay btw)? Where and when has Tanguay been THE guy?

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Old
03-14-2009, 05:45 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Obviously we are going to use his 4 million (or whatever amount he makes) to sign another winger to replace him. He has scored 16 goals, lets not blow his contribution out of proportion.

A.Kost could very reasonably score over 30 goals consistently with more icetime and better line mates for the length of a whole season. The team is better off without him, I would rather have a player who was 1/2 as good that showed up every night than a player like Kovy who take weeks off at a time.
I agree, Kovalev is a talented player no doubt but people here chose to ignore the actual Kovalev playing for the team right now, he is not playing that well. If Kovalev leaves we will sign some one in around the 4mil salary range that may not have his talent but brings it every night. How many 20 goal 40 point guys in this league are making 4.5 mil.? Not only that play 20 mins a night ? It is time for Kovalev to go and try it somewhere else unless he can prove to us he still has the fire to take this team on his shoulders and carry them into the playoffs. No lackluster efforts will be permitted from now on, points are too important now.

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