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So, the prob with this team was obviously Carbo..

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Old
03-20-2009, 10:33 AM
  #126
Sports1131
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Give it up, Carbo was definitely part of the problem. Clearly not the only one I'll give you that, but his decisions to play our least talented players for 15 minutes every night and when we were trailing by a goal with a minute left are inexcusable.

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03-20-2009, 10:35 AM
  #127
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Give it up, Carbo was definitely part of the problem. Clearly not the only one I'll give you that, but his decisions to play our least talented players for 15 minutes every night and when we were trailing by a goal with a minute left are inexcusable.
He was far from being the main problem. He can't stop pucks. He can't block shots, backcheck and mostly, he's not a cardiologist to transplant hearts in those who don't have one. The proof is in the pudding... look at them go since he's been fired!

Carbonneau, in spite of the bad rep he's getting, was 40 games over .500 as a coach with a team with no true leadership and no heart. That in itself is simply amazing!

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03-20-2009, 11:10 AM
  #128
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He was far from being the main problem. He can't stop pucks. He can't block shots, backcheck and mostly, he's not a cardiologist to transplant hearts in those who don't have one. The proof is in the pudding... look at them go since he's been fired!

Carbonneau, in spite of the bad rep he's getting, was 40 games over .500 as a coach with a team with no true leadership and no heart. That in itself is simply amazing!
20ish of those 40 Games you speak off come from last season. We had a year beyond expectations. I think we can all agree, we're not the best team in the East. But having a crazy season last year, boosted the stat you like to bring up.

Also, being a .500 coach is very bad. Playing for .500 doesn't get you into the POs. So 40Games over .500 isn't so impressive.

Gainey, the players, Carbo are all to blame for the lack of success.
Now, you're saying this team was missing leadership and heart. I say it was missing some talent and size as well. Others like to mention grit. One thing for sure, on paper, we're a better team than last year .
Obviously, the better your team, the easier it is for a coach to stack up the Ws.
Sure, with better leadership, more heart, talent, size, grit, Carbo would have probably still been in place. You can say that about every coach that ever got fired, on any team.
But, that's not the point.

Bottom line is, you coach the team you have. He had a better one than last year but couldn't keep them in check. Blame whoever it is you want, but in the end, he didn't deliver when expected too.


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03-20-2009, 11:14 AM
  #129
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20ish of those 40 Games you speak off come from last season.
Last year, we had a season beyond expectations. I think we can all agree, we're not the best team in the East. On paper, we got a better team than last year. Having a crazy season last year, boosted the stat you like to bring up.

Also, being a .500 coach is very bad. Playing for .500 doesn't get you into the POs.

Gainey, the players, Carbo are all to blame for the lack of success.
Now, you're saying this team was missing leadership and heart. I say it was missing some talent and size as well. Others like to mention grit.
Obviously, the better your team, the easier it is for a coach to stack up the Ws.
Sure, with better leadership, more heart, talent, size, grit, Carbo would have probably still been in place. You can say about every coach that ever got fired, on any team.
But, that's not the point.

Bottom line is, you coach the team you have. He had a better one than last year but couldn't keep them in check. Blame whoever it is you want, but in the end, he didn't deliver when expected too.
And as we can clearly see now, the problem was NOT the coach! We're doing worse without him while playing weaker teams at home!

I know that some here have a blind hate towards Carbonneau, I know that some here hate his arrogance and smile, but it doesn't change the fact that he's a smart man, a good coach who's done extremely well with limited talent offered to him.

He'll go out having success coaching another team like others before him and people won't know what to say... again! This blind hater is just plain ridiculous.

Yes, attack me instead of addressing the problem as you seem to enjoy doing in other threads.

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03-20-2009, 11:22 AM
  #130
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Well going by the teams record with Gainey as the coach...the team is the problem with this team!!!!

There are obviously some players on the team that don't get along for some reason. I'd say Gainey should blow the whole team up this summer and build it back up with players that get along, act like a team and play hard and win hockey games.

There are a lot of players on the team we don't necessarily need to keep around....so get rid of them and sign free agents. Resign a couple of key guys and go from there.

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03-20-2009, 11:34 AM
  #131
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And as we can clearly see now, the problem was NOT the coach! We're doing worse without him while playing weaker teams at home!

I know that some here have a blind hate towards Carbonneau, I know that some here hate his arrogance and smile, but it doesn't change the fact that he's a smart man, a good coach who's done extremely well with limited talent offered to him.

He'll go out having success coaching another team like others before him and people won't know what to say... again! This blind hater is just plain ridiculous.

Yes, attack me instead of addressing the problem as you seem to enjoy doing in other threads.
I'm not attacking you. All I said in other threads is that your beloved coach defended the player you seem to put all the blame on, Kovalev.

Carbo is not as nearly as bad as some people like to say he was, but he's not as good as you say he was either.

Like I've said before, there's many people to blame for the poor play of our team. Seeing as it's a Team, I blame everyone surrounding it. The GM, the Coach, and the Players. They all form this team together, they're all in the same boat.
Now, someone had to pay for the lack of success. Carbo took some decisions that made him vulnerable, they didn't pay off, he got fired.

Right now, we're seeing a team that's lost, it goes beyond the coach there's no doubt about it. Even if it is related to things outside the rink, it's Carbo and Gainey's fault.

You keep pointing the finger at Kovalev though just because you expected to have a similar season as last year, which is an unreasonable expectation considering his age and career performances.
The players are always the main reason why the team plays bad. In the end, it's only up to them to make things happen. But it doesn't mean Carbo did a good job either.

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03-20-2009, 11:57 AM
  #132
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Well going by the teams record with Gainey as the coach...the team is the problem with this team!!!!

There are obviously some players on the team that don't get along for some reason. I'd say Gainey should blow the whole team up this summer and build it back up with players that get along, act like a team and play hard and win hockey games.

There are a lot of players on the team we don't necessarily need to keep around....so get rid of them and sign free agents. Resign a couple of key guys and go from there.
This.

And here's hoping that Kovalev isn't resigned and Gainey realizes that major changes are needed. Bring in some true proven leadership for our young guys, veterans who will lead by example game in, game out instead of when they feel like it.

I really would have liked to see what kind of coach Carbonneau would have been with some character in the room... some true leadership!

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03-20-2009, 12:02 PM
  #133
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This.

And here's hoping that Kovalev isn't resigned and Gainey realizes that major changes are needed. Bring in some true proven leadership for our young guys, veterans who will lead by example game in, game out instead of when they feel like it.

I really would have liked to see what kind of coach Carbonneau would have been with some character in the room... some true leadership!
I agree with this. That's why I always said the fact Gainey didn't resign any of the upcoming UFAs was a good thing.

I think Kovalev on a team like Detroit or SJ would be most effective as he wouldn't have a premier role.

But we need a lot of player changing because the ones we have clearly don't match.

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03-20-2009, 12:12 PM
  #134
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I really would have liked to see what kind of coach Carbonneau would have been with some character in the room... some true leadership!
Considering that he managed to alienate Steve Begin, of all people, I'm not sure he would have done quite so well as you imagine. I'm actually starting to suspect he would have butted heads with "true leaders with character", aka "strong personalities". If the speculated conflict with Koivu is real, that might in fact be exactly what happened.

Carbo may be one of those coaches that are effective in the short term, but have a shelf life. Nothing wrong with that, there are plenty of those around, and not everyone can be Scotty Bowman.


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03-20-2009, 12:23 PM
  #135
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Well going by the teams record with Gainey as the coach...the team is the problem with this team!!!!

There are obviously some players on the team that don't get along for some reason. I'd say Gainey should blow the whole team up this summer and build it back up with players that get along, act like a team and play hard and win hockey games.

There are a lot of players on the team we don't necessarily need to keep around....so get rid of them and sign free agents. Resign a couple of key guys and go from there.
If this team crash - as it looks it is doing right now - Gainey won't have to do it... He will be GONE TOO !

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Considering that he managed to alienate Steve Begin, of all people, I'm not sure he would have done quite so well as you imagine. I'm actually starting to suspect he would have butted heads with "true leaders with character", aka "strong personalities". If the speculated conflict with Koivu is real, that might in fact be exactly what happened.

Carbo may be one of those coaches that are effective in the short term, but have a shelf life. Nothing wrong with that, there are plenty of those around, and not everyone can be Scotty Bowman.
Today's players would not endure Bowman's antics. They would kill him and bury him under center ice!


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03-20-2009, 12:26 PM
  #136
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Considering that he managed to alienate Steve Begin, of all people, I'm not sure he would have done quite so well as you imagine. I'm actually starting to suspect he would have butted heads with "true leaders with character", aka "strong personalities". If the speculated conflict with Koivu is real, that might in fact be exactly what happened.

Carbo may be one of those coaches that are effective in the short term, but have a shelf life. Nothing wrong with that, there are plenty of those around, and not everyone can be Scotty Bowman.
You're quick at pointing to Begin, but you're forgetting Kostopoulos, Lapierre and Pacioretty, all character guys who he was playing a fair bit. Begin was starting to get over the hill and he's not getting much ice time in Dallas either and that coming from a fan of his.

I'm talking about true grit with skills and leadership here. Watch Carbonneau have a great career as a head coach...

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03-20-2009, 12:26 PM
  #137
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I agree with this. That's why I always said the fact Gainey didn't resign any of the upcoming UFAs was a good thing.

I think Kovalev on a team like Detroit or SJ would be most effective as he wouldn't have a premier role.

But we need a lot of player changing because the ones we have clearly don't match.
Could be a bad thing too. Too many players are unsecure about their future. And now they are playing as if they would not care anymore about the Habs. They are just looking forward for the 1st of July bonanza.

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You're quick at pointing to Begin, but you're forgetting Kostopoulos, Lapierre and Pacioretty, all character guys who he was playing a fair bit. Begin was starting to get over the hill and he's not getting much ice time in Dallas either and that coming from a fan of his.

I'm talking about true grit with skills and leadership here. Watch Carbonneau have a great career as a head coach...
I would re-take Bégin over Metropolit any time !


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03-20-2009, 12:57 PM
  #138
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I would re-take Bégin over Metropolit any time !
I still wonder what people are seeing in Metropolit....and please remember we have another year with him. There might not be a lot on the UFA market, but surely there will be much better 4th liner centermen than him that will be available.

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03-20-2009, 01:09 PM
  #139
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You're quick at pointing to Begin, but you're forgetting Kostopoulos, Lapierre and Pacioretty, all character guys who he was playing a fair bit.
That was part of Carbo's problem though -- overplaying "character guys" (aka grinders) and not playing scorers -- which has the dual problem of resulting in not a lot of scoring and demotivating your scorers, which could incite you to play them less, and so on.

This is especially problematic if you overplay the grinders in critical situations -- when you're down a goal, late in the third, it's time for high-risk high-reward play, you don't want your fourth line out there even if you feel the team needs energy. The team needs a goal more than it needs energy at that point.

Once Kostopoulos is regularly one of your leading forwards in ice-time, you have problems.

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I'm talking about true grit with skills and leadership here. Watch Carbonneau have a great career as a head coach...
As I said, leadership and character are generally associated with strong personalities (it goes without saying). Carbo, I suspect, tends to butt heads with strong personalities. He's got a bit of a my-way-or-the-highway thing going, which isn't necessarily bad if you approach it well. But that's a matter of communication, and, well...

Then there's the tactical issues. I'll have to look over Carbo's matchup decisions in more detail to paint a complete picture, but my impression was that he would roll four lines and not adjust to matchups very well. The goal of rolling four lines is to keep your first lines working better by keeping them well-rested, but if you roll your lines and end up with your fourth line facing the opposing top line, you need to change that. And the lack of organization on D has been well-observed. I've been the first to say that "give the puck to the opposing team in the slot" is almost certainly not a tactic put forward by Carbonneau, the fact is that the defensive system was in shambles, and still is now (whether it's because Gainey can't fix it or hasn't had enough time to do so is open for discussion).

I found it interesting to read Mathias Brunet's blog post about Carbo's coaching, though I was sorry to see it come only after he was fired. He made a number of very good points about Carbo's tactical decisions. He could be called unorthodox at best. I'm perfectly fine with that, so long as it works, like last year, and I defended Carbonneau at length because of it. But lately, it had blown up in his face and he seemed unwilling or unable to adjust.

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03-20-2009, 01:16 PM
  #140
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Gainey lol

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03-20-2009, 01:17 PM
  #141
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That was part of Carbo's problem though -- overplaying "character guys" (aka grinders) and not playing scorers -- which has the dual problem of resulting in not a lot of scoring and demotivating your scorers, which could incite you to play them less, and so on.

This is especially problematic if you overplay the grinders in critical situations -- when you're down a goal, late in the third, it's time for high-risk high-reward play, you don't want your fourth line out there even if you feel the team needs energy. The team needs a goal more than it needs energy at that point.

Once Kostopoulos is regularly one of your leading forwards in ice-time, you have problems.
This is NOT Carbonneau's problem, it's Carbonneau's handicap! He didn't have character players with skills so just like we are seeing with Gainey, he had to chose between playing skilled players with no character or play the guys who wanted to play. Had he had more skilled character players, you can bet your ass that they'd be the ones getting the PP and quality minutes!


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As I said, leadership and character are generally associated with strong personalities (it goes without saying). Carbo, I suspect, tends to butt heads with strong personalities. He's got a bit of a my-way-or-the-highway thing going, which isn't necessarily bad if you approach it well. But that's a matter of communication, and, well...
There are plenty of character coachable players out there (not saying that they're available here though). Guys like Iginla comes to mind. Doan, Brendan Morrow, Shanahan, Lecavalier... I disagree that it comes with strong personalities. Kovalev, Jagr and guys like that yes, but it's a GM's job to stay away from bringing those guys into your mix.

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Then there's the tactical issues. I'll have to look over Carbo's matchup decisions in more detail to paint a complete picture, but my impression was that he would roll four lines and not adjust to matchups very well. The goal of rolling four lines is to keep your first lines working better by keeping them well-rested, but if you roll your lines and end up with your fourth line facing the opposing top line, you need to change that. And the lack of organization on D has been well-observed. I've been the first to say that "give the puck to the opposing team in the slot" is almost certainly not a tactic put forward by Carbonneau, the fact is that the defensive system was in shambles, and still is now (whether it's because Gainey can't fix it or hasn't had enough time to do so is open for discussion).

I found it interesting to read Mathias Brunet's blog post about Carbo's coaching, though I was sorry to see it come only after he was fired. He made a number of very good points about Carbo's tactical decisions. He could be called unorthodox at best. I'm perfectly fine with that, so long as it works, like last year, and I defended Carbonneau at length because of it. But lately, it had blown up in his face and he seemed unwilling or unable to adjust.
In no way will I say that Carbonneau didn't have his faults, and he's the first one to admit it. But the blame that's been put on him is totally uncalled for. I strongly believe that Gainey had to trade Kovalev at the deadline in an attempt to shake the team and get something in return. One would think that if Erik Cole brought Patrick O'Sullivan to Edmonton, Kovalev could have fetched us a good young player as well.

Carbonneau paid the price, but his GM didn't help him.

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03-20-2009, 01:49 PM
  #142
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I still wonder what people are seeing in Metropolit....and please remember we have another year with him. There might not be a lot on the UFA market, but surely there will be much better 4th liner centermen than him that will be available.
I agree. I guess he can always be waived though if Chipchura beats him out for the 4th line spot in training camp.

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03-20-2009, 03:46 PM
  #143
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This is NOT Carbonneau's problem, it's Carbonneau's handicap! He didn't have character players with skills so just like we are seeing with Gainey, he had to chose between playing skilled players with no character or play the guys who wanted to play.
And put in this situation, he consistently made the wrong decision: to play the grinder that he liked rather than the guys with skill who actually had a real chance to tie the game.

Once in a while, to send a message, this isn't a problem. It makes the scorers perk up and take notice. But either Carbo felt like his message needed to be sent with repeated hits of the sledgehammer, or he never did this to send a message. See, Carbonneau started doing this long before the problems began. He was doing it last year, in fact, when the team was at its best, Kovalev was a motivated scorer, and the second line built around Koivu was doing relatively well.

The scorers saw it, didn't understand it, and I guarantee you they didn't like it. And that's understandable: from their point of view, they saw that their coach was more interested in rewarding apparent effort rather than help the team win. They saw their coach was, essentially, playing favorites with players that played a style he understood better. So they became less motivated. So Carbo played Kostopoulos more because he was more motivated, even if he had better players on his bench. The better players became more demotivated. Vicious circle.

Carbonneau should not have played the guys he wanted to play, he should have played the guys that were most likely to help his team win. That the two were not one in the same was already inherently a problem.

Ice time is one of the most important motivational tools a coach has, and Carbo distributed his to maximize his grinder's contribution and diminish his scorers'. And the worse the team got, the worse this tendancy got, even though it didn't help and possibly contributed to the problem. Grinders do not make you win hockey games. They're there to make you not lose them.

In a very real sense, Carbo was pinning his turnaround hopes on Tom Kostopoulos. Unsurprisingly, it didn't work.

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There are plenty of character coachable players out there (not saying that they're available here though). Guys like Iginla comes to mind. Doan, Brendan Morrow, Shanahan, Lecavalier...
Off the top of my head, I know that Iginla and Lecavalier have butted heads with coaches in the past plenty. I'm not sure Carbonneau is the best guy to deal with that.

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I strongly believe that Gainey had to trade Kovalev at the deadline in an attempt to shake the team and get something in return.
And here we go: ultimately, the root of the problem was that Kovalev was such a cancer. There's only one problem with this theory: Carbonneau himself doesn't agree. He was outright quoted as saying he felt he had Kovalev's support, but that that wasn't enough. Knowing this, I don't see how you can pursue your anti-Kovalev crusade by arguing he let his coach down -- Carbonneau himself would seem to disagree with you.

So blaming Gainey for refusing to make his team worse by trading a guy that you believe was a cancer but his coach didn't doesn't seem to make much sense to me. Sure it would have shaken the dressing room -- trading the team's top scorer and most talented player would have been a definite message of capitulation and I have trouble seeing how that could have had a positive effect. Especially if he was, as Carbo said, a guy who supported his coach in a room where, clearly, not everyone did.

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03-20-2009, 04:04 PM
  #144
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Could be a bad thing too. Too many players are unsecure about their future. And now they are playing as if they would not care anymore about the Habs. They are just looking forward for the 1st of July bonanza.
Well, the best way to prove it was a bad thing was for them to have an incredible season so they can all raise their value to the max.
Right now, pretty much every upcoming UFA has underperformed except for Kostopoulos and Lang. So they're showing how right BG was for not giving them new contracts.

Maybe it caused distractions, but they're certainly not making a case for themselves that it was a mistake not to resign them.


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03-20-2009, 06:12 PM
  #145
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And put in this situation, he consistently made the wrong decision: to play the grinder that he liked rather than the guys with skill who actually had a real chance to tie the game.

Once in a while, to send a message, this isn't a problem. It makes the scorers perk up and take notice. But either Carbo felt like his message needed to be sent with repeated hits of the sledgehammer, or he never did this to send a message. See, Carbonneau started doing this long before the problems began. He was doing it last year, in fact, when the team was at its best, Kovalev was a motivated scorer, and the second line built around Koivu was doing relatively well.

The scorers saw it, didn't understand it, and I guarantee you they didn't like it. And that's understandable: from their point of view, they saw that their coach was more interested in rewarding apparent effort rather than help the team win. They saw their coach was, essentially, playing favorites with players that played a style he understood better. So they became less motivated. So Carbo played Kostopoulos more because he was more motivated, even if he had better players on his bench. The better players became more demotivated. Vicious circle.

Carbonneau should not have played the guys he wanted to play, he should have played the guys that were most likely to help his team win. That the two were not one in the same was already inherently a problem.

Ice time is one of the most important motivational tools a coach has, and Carbo distributed his to maximize his grinder's contribution and diminish his scorers'. And the worse the team got, the worse this tendancy got, even though it didn't help and possibly contributed to the problem. Grinders do not make you win hockey games. They're there to make you not lose them.

In a very real sense, Carbo was pinning his turnaround hopes on Tom Kostopoulos. Unsurprisingly, it didn't work.
I'd like to point out that Kovalev leads the team in ice time amongst forwards. He's given his star players every opportunity to get themselves and the team out of the hole THEY dug for themselves. Only when push came to shove did he start playing those role players in situations they should not have in an attempt to wake up his so-called go-to guys. If Carbonneau is guilty of anything on that, it's to be too patient with his "leaders"... who in spite of him being good with them, managed to still turn on him!

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Off the top of my head, I know that Iginla and Lecavalier have butted heads with coaches in the past plenty. I'm not sure Carbonneau is the best guy to deal with that.
Iginla didn't, but Lecavalier did with Tortorella. Coaches rarely make unanimity.


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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
And here we go: ultimately, the root of the problem was that Kovalev was such a cancer. There's only one problem with this theory: Carbonneau himself doesn't agree. He was outright quoted as saying he felt he had Kovalev's support, but that that wasn't enough. Knowing this, I don't see how you can pursue your anti-Kovalev crusade by arguing he let his coach down -- Carbonneau himself would seem to disagree with you.

So blaming Gainey for refusing to make his team worse by trading a guy that you believe was a cancer but his coach didn't doesn't seem to make much sense to me. Sure it would have shaken the dressing room -- trading the team's top scorer and most talented player would have been a definite message of capitulation and I have trouble seeing how that could have had a positive effect. Especially if he was, as Carbo said, a guy who supported his coach in a room where, clearly, not everyone did.
People can be so gullible at times and at other times, won't believe anything. Carbonneau knew going into that press conference that Kovalev would be a hot topic. He's a very smart man and he simply diffused the whole topic to shut people up! It worked at the press conference and some here bit as well, but only because they're grasping for straws, lacking anything solid to defend Kovalev and his antics, back to two years ago again.

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03-20-2009, 07:25 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
I'd like to point out that Kovalev leads the team in ice time amongst forwards.
Sure he does, but it is not normal for him to be below 20 minutes. It's even sillier for Tanguay to be below 16 minutes. Frankly, Kovalev's merely slightly underused -- if anything, it's Tanguay who was criminally under-deployed.

Oh he's not killing penalties? Very well, then -- he should get more time at even-strength and on the PP, when he can score. He's +10 for a reason -- he's one of the best even-strength scorers in the post-lockout NHL, which is why the Habs acquired him. But at even strength, Carbo used Tom Kostopoulos *more* than Alex Tanguay.

Man, I had never really looked into this. No wonder Tanguay was complaining about icetime. Carbo was clearly under-utilizing an impact player making five million plus per and his GM had given up a first-rounder for. The team's best scorer, no less. A guy the Habs probably need to keep.

If Carbo's mishandling of him causes him to walk in the off-season, I will be very peeved.

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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
He's given his star players every opportunity to get themselves and the team out of the hole THEY dug for themselves.
FYI, Kovalev's performance at even-strength is dead even with his performance last year. His only problem is on the PP -- where he was unsustainably good.

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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Only when push came to shove did he start playing those role players in situations they should not have in an attempt to wake up his so-called go-to guys.
Carbo has been overplaying his grinders all year. It just became worse as the year went on.

And he wasn't going to wake up his go-to guys by regularly keeping them on the bench. Shock treatment loses its value when it's applied all the time.

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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Iginla didn't, but Lecavalier did with Tortorella. Coaches rarely make unanimity.
Lecavalier is clearly a cancer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
People can be so gullible at times and at other times, won't believe anything. Carbonneau knew going into that press conference that Kovalev would be a hot topic. He's a very smart man and he simply diffused the whole topic to shut people up!
Sure he did... Of course, one wonders why he didn't say the same thing about Koivu, then, as Villeneuve was hounding him into saying something -- and Carbo, if he had been so inclined, could have defused that just as easily.


Last edited by MathMan: 03-20-2009 at 07:30 PM.
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Old
03-20-2009, 08:03 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Sure he does, but it is not normal for him to be below 20 minutes. It's even sillier for Tanguay to be below 16 minutes. Frankly, Kovalev's merely slightly underused -- if anything, it's Tanguay who was criminally under-deployed.

Oh he's not killing penalties? Very well, then -- he should get more time at even-strength and on the PP, when he can score. He's +10 for a reason -- he's one of the best even-strength scorers in the post-lockout NHL, which is why the Habs acquired him. But at even strength, Carbo used Tom Kostopoulos *more* than Alex Tanguay.

Man, I had never really looked into this. No wonder Tanguay was complaining about icetime. Carbo was clearly under-utilizing an impact player making five million plus per and his GM had given up a first-rounder for. The team's best scorer, no less. A guy the Habs probably need to keep.

If Carbo's mishandling of him causes him to walk in the off-season, I will be very peeved.

FYI, Kovalev's performance at even-strength is dead even with his performance last year. His only problem is on the PP -- where he was unsustainably good.

Carbo has been overplaying his grinders all year. It just became worse as the year went on.

And he wasn't going to wake up his go-to guys by regularly keeping them on the bench. Shock treatment loses its value when it's applied all the time.

Lecavalier is clearly a cancer.

Sure he did... Of course, one wonders why he didn't say the same thing about Koivu, then, as Villeneuve was hounding him into saying something -- and Carbo, if he had been so inclined, could have defused that just as easily.
I'll stop the non-sense talk here as we'll have to agree to disagree. No need to say that I'll be thrilled when the true cancer on this team isn't re-signed this summer. If he is, I'll personally join the fire Gainey bandwagon, as much as it will hurt as I have the outmost respect for the man!

But seeing how the team is performing since Carbonneau's firing, good luck convincing anyone that he was the problem on this team.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<ifra...me>K8E_zMLCRNg


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 04-04-2009 at 01:41 PM.
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Old
03-21-2009, 09:26 PM
  #148
Nashy
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It's very apparent to me that Carbonneau was not the problem. His only mistake was not knowing how to fix the problem, but then again, Gainey doesn't look like he knows how to fix it, either.

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03-21-2009, 09:27 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Nashy View Post
It's very apparent to me that Carbonneau was not the problem. His only mistake was not knowing how to fix the problem, but then again, Gainey doesn't look like he knows how to fix it, either.
You'd need a cardiologist to find the problem on this team.

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04-03-2009, 04:02 PM
  #150
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And as we can clearly see now, the problem was NOT the coach! We're doing worse without him while playing weaker teams at home!

I know that some here have a blind hate towards Carbonneau, I know that some here hate his arrogance and smile, but it doesn't change the fact that he's a smart man, a good coach who's done extremely well with limited talent offered to him.

He'll go out having success coaching another team like others before him and people won't know what to say... again! This blind hater is just plain ridiculous.

Yes, attack me instead of addressing the problem as you seem to enjoy doing in other threads.
Actually, it should be clear to everyone now that the problem WAS the coach. The Habs are playing their best hockey since November in my opinion - the first line is dynamite (you're loving Kovy's performances I'm sure), and everyone else is giving their all out there. They look like a renewed team over the last 6 games, defensive play is way better, PP is working, and the goalies have their confidence back. We're finally playing as a TEAM, and I no longer have to sit and watch line 4 on the ice with 2 mins left in the game when we need a goal. I no longer have to see Kosto on the top line. etc. Once the second line gets going (look at the injuries they have had, how many games has Pleks and the Kosty brothers had together? 1? 2?) we'll be all good.

You want heart? The Habs are showing it to you now because they BELIEVE in their new coach. It took awhile for them to adjust, but I knew it would. You can't just change from one system to another and know what is expected of you immediately. These things take time.

The Habs are back baby, and even if they don't go that far I'll be happy knowing that they at least left it all on the ice. We all should be.

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