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Old
03-15-2009, 09:30 PM
  #26
Levitate
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Articulate it. Stop talking in generalities.

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03-15-2009, 09:41 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
personally, I cannot tell you what will sell regariding hockey. I like the stereotypical western Canadian style of hockey. I'm not a huge fans of goons, but I can tolerate them but believe THIS league was built to have some level of protection. Semenko rode shotgun with Gretzky. Graves with Mess, etc. I'm happy when a scuffle ensues after Gretzky gets an elbow the ref misses. Heck, I'm happy when Gretzky was hit clean but someone thought that person needs to be talked to so TGO can get more space to create the next time he's on the ice. I don't profess to have the answers as to how that would work in this new NHL, nor do I know the answers as to how that brings in more fans. I'm just stating what I like to see and that I liked the old NHL, sans the clutching and grabbing, and to be honest, I'm not a fan of the SEL West, as it looks to be trending towards.
The player pool is bigger, and the talent level of the average player is light years ahead of where it was when Gretz was breaking records. Furthermore, a lot of the skill guys are now big, bruising, physical specimens that really don't need protection. In my opinion, fighting is necessary in the NHL, but I would rather see two guys who aren't very good at fighting go at it because the situation dictates it, rather than see two guys who are great at fighting (and not very good at hockey) fight because that's their job.

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03-15-2009, 09:52 PM
  #28
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I actually agree with Dagoon a lot of the time, except for his strong distaste for Henrik, that I don't get at all.

The NHL needs to get 3 zebras back on the ice, 4 refs is just too much. Sure, another set of eyes helps see calls that may have been missed, but 4 sets of eyes is just too much discrepancy and really "sissys" up a lot of the play.

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Old
03-15-2009, 09:55 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by theMessiah1194 View Post
I actually agree with Dagoon a lot of the time, except for his strong distaste for Henrik, that I don't get at all.

The NHL needs to get 3 zebras back on the ice, 4 refs is just too much. Sure, another set of eyes helps see calls that may have been missed, but 4 sets of eyes is just too much discrepancy and really "sissys" up a lot of the play.
Like what? Examples? Dammit people

edit: I'm not even saying that I'm going to disagree with you, I just want to know what people are really talking about beyond some general statements of "oh man the NHL is sissy". What makes it sissy?

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03-15-2009, 10:09 PM
  #30
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The Reason the Rangers are in a battle for 8th and not a elite team is their power play. The NHL has become a half court game like in basketball. Our power play vs yours was the direction Butthole and his vision of the nhl went. More goals less fighting, More goals less hitting. He wants goals and power plays for the most part equal more goals. he wants the fans to see 5-4 games with 100000 scoring chances not 2-1 old school games we grew up on. And don't point to me that the oilers scored 8 goals a game they did but they also pounded teams with size

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03-15-2009, 10:33 PM
  #31
NYR Sting
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post

You answered my question !! What do you know about me? I am a guy who played the game watched it my whole life and love the Rangers. I have been close friends with a lot of the Rangers in the past and have a few friends around the NHL . I talk to them and i can tell you 100% of the players don't like the direction the league is going. They players feel stick work and cheap hits are taking place because policeman have been take out of the equation by the rules. AAron Voros (i know he sucks) David Clarkson, Scott Clemmenson ,Dave Brown all guys that I have asked about this subject and agree the NHL is going the wrong way. Passion sold look at 94 Rangers cup and then the Devils the NHL had the world by the balls and rinks were popping up all over and little leagues were losing players left and right. The NHL lost it by striking and losing passion. The game is going the wrong direction when there is more contact in auto racing then hockey
So Aaron Voros and David Clarkson, guys who depend on their physical play to make a living playing the sport, agree with you that the league is heading in the wrong direction. Shocker.

You talk about college *******, but you seem to think that only applies to the fans. Dude, look at the players.

These are not the same kids that you were watching when you were younger. These kids are *******, too. They're pampered.

And for the league, aka the owners/management, these players represent massive investments. Couple that with a society that is increasingly more and more politically correct and anti-everything that means fun, and this transition should be very clear to you. Likewise, the influx of European players who grew up playing a much different, more tactical, puck handling style of hockey meant the league was going to change the rules.

If you don't like the changes that our society is going through...well, neither do I, but we can't really do anything about it, can we? If you think the NHL would be better without Europeans than it would be with them, I have to disagree. I'd rather have less fights and less physicality than miss out on some very smart and very talented players.

The league's move toward more family-friendly material was inevitable. Bettman is a lot like Sather around here. People love to blame both, and they should, except all too often, they have the wrong justification for it. If Bettman didn't change the league into this, someone else would have.


Last edited by NYR Sting: 03-15-2009 at 10:38 PM.
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Old
03-15-2009, 10:37 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Like what? Examples? Dammit people

edit: I'm not even saying that I'm going to disagree with you, I just want to know what people are really talking about beyond some general statements of "oh man the NHL is sissy". What makes it sissy?
well, just to rattle off a few things. games being decided by special teams, too many soft calls or the classic "make-up" call, 3 refs immediately breaking scrums, jumping in way to early during fights, etc. Every once and while you'll get a set that'll "let em play" but its far to rare. And those games are always better. I feel like the refs/league don't allow for as much hate ON the ice between teams as there used to be, which was a ton more exciting/entertaining. end rant I guess

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03-15-2009, 10:57 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Lev
don't get in my conversations you are clueless. You thought Morris was a forward when we traded for him lol.
I am not making a fighting point here. Did you notice how the announcer were laughing at some of the calls today? Did you hear the Dubinsky call when they said you can make that call 12 times a game but the Ref was talked into the call? Fighting yea i love it but hockey is physical and the league wants that to end

And this is why the league is insane to even be entertaining all this fight talk...every player in the league came in knowing the physical level if there lookin to protect the players have talks about full face cages or throat guards **** while there at it sew some little stop signs on the back of there jerseys like they did in high school

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Old
03-15-2009, 11:30 PM
  #34
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Some games fighting just isn't appropriate. This was too important a game for our team to win to risk taking extra penalties. I don't think it lacked a physcial element though and as far as the one fight--taken in context to the rest of the season that instigator call was BS. Now if they're going to start calling it from now on--now that they had their meetings then fine but the kind of thing that happened with Girardi's been going on all season and the instigator rarely pops up. In fact Girardi's last fight came off of a hit on Versteeg against Chicago and Barker was all over him practically before he got back to his feet. No instigator then.


Last edited by eco's bones: 03-15-2009 at 11:39 PM.
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Old
03-15-2009, 11:57 PM
  #35
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[QUOTE=Dagoon44;18549535]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MalkinFan71 View Post
First of all, nobody has a sexual attraction to Henrik except for maybe the women on this board.

How can you say we don't love the game of hockey. What do you know about any of us? You're trying to say that the game has gone soft meanwhile in today's game there were fights, hard hits, and dirty plays.

You answered my question !! What do you know about me? I am a guy who played the game watched it my whole life and love the Rangers. I have been close friends with a lot of the Rangers in the past and have a few friends around the NHL . I talk to them and i can tell you 100% of the players don't like the direction the league is going. They players feel stick work and cheap hits are taking place because policeman have been take out of the equation by the rules. AAron Voros (i know he sucks) David Clarkson, Scott Clemmenson ,Dave Brown all guys that I have asked about this subject and agree the NHL is going the wrong way. Passion sold look at 94 Rangers cup and then the Devils the NHL had the world by the balls and rinks were popping up all over and little leagues were losing players left and right. The NHL lost it by striking and losing passion. The game is going the wrong direction when there is more contact in auto racing then hockey
In your first post you made a point that your not making a point about fighting, and then you talk about how the enforcers are being taken out of the game b/c of rules. I really dont understand your point. You say there is no physical play allowed, well how about the hit Richards put on Zherdev. That was a good, clean legal hit, or how about when Avery put Carle into the boards, or better yet when Callahan was knocked down when he was on the rush. If you believe that 2 guys pounding the crap out of each other is more entertaining then an up-tempo game, with speed, many scoring chances, physical play, and solid clean hits then go watch boxing. Fighting has its role in the game. The enforers know it. The problem is somewhere along the line, fighting became bigger than the game. Fighting is an aspect of the game that will always be there. But it is not the entire game.

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Old
03-16-2009, 12:04 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
The Reason the Rangers are in a battle for 8th and not a elite team is their power play. The NHL has become a half court game like in basketball. Our power play vs yours was the direction Butthole and his vision of the nhl went. More goals less fighting, More goals less hitting. He wants goals and power plays for the most part equal more goals. he wants the fans to see 5-4 games with 100000 scoring chances not 2-1 old school games we grew up on. And don't point to me that the oilers scored 8 goals a game they did but they also pounded teams with size
2-1 old school games? again viewing the past through rose colored glasses considering goals per game were actually much higher in the 70's/80's than they are now. We get it. You want to watch pre lockout clutch and grab hockey and a bunch of fights. Not everybody wants what you want.

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03-16-2009, 12:18 AM
  #37
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No I don't want a bunch of fights I want hockey with passion and checking, The NHL wants figure skating. Checking is now looked at as violence. Hits like Dubi's today are not illegal. The run Richards took yesterday is he could have ended a career with that one. Let the kids play

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Old
03-16-2009, 12:57 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
No I don't want a bunch of fights I want hockey with passion and checking, The NHL wants figure skating. Checking is now looked at as violence. Hits like Dubi's today are not illegal. The run Richards took yesterday is he could have ended a career with that one. Let the kids play
I thought the game today was pretty physical.

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Old
03-16-2009, 01:09 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
No I don't want a bunch of fights I want hockey with passion and checking, The NHL wants figure skating. Checking is now looked at as violence. Hits like Dubi's today are not illegal. The run Richards took yesterday is he could have ended a career with that one. Let the kids play
I don't really want to get into this, because I pretty much agree with most of the posts in this thread, but this one I can't understand.

How can the words "could have ended a career" and "let the kids play" be used seemingly together? I'm all for hitting, passion, and fights. I don't believe in letting it get to a point where headhunting is ok.

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Old
03-16-2009, 01:13 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
I have been close friends with a lot of the Rangers in the past and have a few friends around the NHL . I talk to them and i can tell you 100% of the players don't like the direction the league is going. They players feel stick work and cheap hits are taking place because policeman have been take out of the equation by the rules. AAron Voros (i know he sucks) David Clarkson, Scott Clemmenson, Dave Brown all guys that I have asked about this subject and agree the NHL is going the wrong way.
Yes, but they are only players.

What do they know compared to the SPECTATORS who prolifierate HF?

Actually, I would not worry too much. Even if the suits in the league wanted to further destroy the essence of the game (I tend to think they are giving it lip service more than anything else), the NHLPA will not go along for the ride.

Today's NYR/Flyers game taught me nothing about Bettman, or the league. It was hard fought, at moments a bit chippy (yes!) and entertaining, albeit a bit over-officiated.

It did, however, re-confirm my opinion about the fragillllllity of many (not all) of today's NHL fan and his insufferable urge to take any of the fear factor out of the game, in order to make it more respeccccctable, classsssy and saaaaafer. (See: the main board here.)

Hockey 101: a guy has his head down and you can clock him, you do.

Hockey 101: your teammate, especially a star, gets rocked - cleanly (as Zherdev was hit today by Richards) or otherwise - you answer to it. Either immediately, as Girardi did, or later. That's called: being a good teammate.

Think Richards is not respected in the Flyer's lockeroom?

Think Girardi is not respected in the Rangers lockeroom?

Meanwhile the HF moralists go about blabbering how "You should not have to worry when you hit a guy cleannnnnly."

If they would only step on the ice just once in their lives.

***

Best line about all this nonsense about further regulating fighting and phyiscal play came, curiously, from Neil Smith the other day. Someone was saying how "the fans" want this or that rule change. Smith's rebuttal were words to this effect: You cannot always run this game based on everything the fans want. You have to take the player's needs into consideration, since it's their occupation.

Exactly.

And the players, thankfully, still get it, even if the EA Sports Hockey "expert", the network suits and the NHL cabal doesn't.


Last edited by Trottier: 03-16-2009 at 01:45 AM.
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Old
03-16-2009, 05:26 AM
  #41
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[QUOTE=Dagoon44;18549535]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MalkinFan71 View Post
First of all, nobody has a sexual attraction to Henrik except for maybe the women on this board.

How can you say we don't love the game of hockey. What do you know about any of us? You're trying to say that the game has gone soft meanwhile in today's game there were fights, hard hits, and dirty plays.

You answered my question !! What do you know about me? I am a guy who played the game watched it my whole life and love the Rangers. I have been close friends with a lot of the Rangers in the past and have a few friends around the NHL . I talk to them and i can tell you 100% of the players don't like the direction the league is going. They players feel stick work and cheap hits are taking place because policeman have been take out of the equation by the rules. AAron Voros (i know he sucks) David Clarkson, Scott Clemmenson ,Dave Brown all guys that I have asked about this subject and agree the NHL is going the wrong way. Passion sold look at 94 Rangers cup and then the Devils the NHL had the world by the balls and rinks were popping up all over and little leagues were losing players left and right. The NHL lost it by striking and losing passion. The game is going the wrong direction when there is more contact in auto racing then hockey
Dagoon, even though I'm not totally agree with you the discussion needs to be brought up and you have an angle for sure.

We all know the pros and the cons from the general viewing point as well as the league management (more goals, favours the skilled players, less injuries etc).

The core of this comes down to which side is the right one to stimulate?
- The core of the hockey fans and the clubs (players, managers, coaches etc).
- Parents, family audience, kids, the broader perspective of potential viewers and the "sell in the league arguments" (right or wrong arguments can be discussed).

You are by all means belonging to the first category and it's very understandable that you consider the league going the wrong direction, losing passion, heat and intensity.

I've got no idea if the "family category" find it to going the right direction or not since I don't live in NA, but lets say they do and that the league actually is expanding (just for the sake of it).

The discussion is about if that is wrong or right? Should the selling arguments and making the game more family friendly be the ones in favour or should the core of the fans and the players (not sure of their opinion though) be the ones favoured? What is the right thing to do long term and is it that important to grow or not?

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Old
03-16-2009, 08:09 AM
  #42
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.

The non-call on Sjostrom was a joke.

The actual penalty was when Sjostrom put his stick into Parents mid-section and went parallel to the surface with it.

It's not what knocked Parent down, but it allowed Sjostrom to gain better position in pursuit of the puck.

That by definition is a penalty

The call on Dubi was a make up call. Nothing more nothing less.

Make up calls happen every game. They will continue to happen every game.

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03-16-2009, 08:15 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by theMessiah1194 View Post
well, just to rattle off a few things. games being decided by special teams, too many soft calls or the classic "make-up" call, 3 refs immediately breaking scrums, jumping in way to early during fights, etc. Every once and while you'll get a set that'll "let em play" but its far to rare. And those games are always better. I feel like the refs/league don't allow for as much hate ON the ice between teams as there used to be, which was a ton more exciting/entertaining. end rant I guess
Make up calls have always existed, this isn't something new. There aren't 3 refs either. I really don't see refs jumping in and stopping fights most of the time as well. It's far, far, far more likely that they'll let the players fight rather than jump in and stop a fight, until it gets to the point where it should be stopped.

Scrums...I think there's a good point to be made about keeping games under control to a certain extent and if you let scrums go on and on then things are going to get bad. I guess it depends on whether you think that all out brawls with everyone on the ice on a regular basis are a good thing. I personally don't. If guys want to fight, then they'll fight. The refs don't need to actively encourage players to fight.

I do agree on not liking games that are dominated by special teams, but that seems to be more about inconsistent reffing at this point. most players and teams have adapted to the new interference rules, but some refs will call it tighter than others leading to some confusion in games over what the players can get away with. With all that in mind, I still prefer it to going back to the clutch and grab style of hockey. That was just absolute **** and was killing the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
No I don't want a bunch of fights I want hockey with passion and checking, The NHL wants figure skating. Checking is now looked at as violence. Hits like Dubi's today are not illegal. The run Richards took yesterday is he could have ended a career with that one. Let the kids play
Checking has always been looked at as violence. That's why people like it. I don't think the NHL has a problem at all with hitting as long as it's done legally (and I think the call on Dubinsky was a makeup call, which is a different thing to argue about). Don't hit a guy in the head, don't hit him in the back when he's near the boards, and other than that, you're usually fine. There's still a lot of hitting in hockey. If there's a decline in the hitting, it's for a different reason...I'll elaborate later since I need to go do something at the moment and don't want to type up an even longer post.

My basic gist in all of this is that there are a lot bigger factors driving these changes in the game than "oh man the league! **** the league and how they want to make this game more PC!" and it's been going on for a long time now. It's not just something that has come up with the "new NHL"


Quote:
If they would only step on the ice just once in their lives.
I don't necessarily disagree with some of what you're saying but please don't pull this one out. It's a silly argument and I hate it. It seems to be reserved for use by people who can't make their point any other way than "well you'd just KNOW if you'd played!" and you're a better poster than that.

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03-16-2009, 08:39 AM
  #44
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[QUOTE=Levitate;18554448]Make up calls have always existed, this isn't something new. There aren't 3 refs either. I really don't see refs jumping in and stopping fights most of the time as well. It's far, far, far more likely that they'll let the players fight rather than jump in and stop a fight, until it gets to the point where it should be stopped.

Scrums...I think there's a good point to be made about keeping games under control to a certain extent and if you let scrums go on and on then things are going to get bad. I guess it depends on whether you think that all out brawls with everyone on the ice on a regular basis are a good thing. I personally don't. If guys want to fight, then they'll fight. The refs don't need to actively encourage players to fight.

I do agree on not liking games that are dominated by special teams, but that seems to be more about inconsistent reffing at this point. most players and teams have adapted to the new interference rules, but some refs will call it tighter than others leading to some confusion in games over what the players can get away with. With all that in mind, I still prefer it to going back to the clutch and grab style of hockey. That was just absolute **** and was killing the game.



Checking has always been looked at as violence. That's why people like it. I don't think the NHL has a problem at all with hitting as long as it's done legally (and I think the call on Dubinsky was a makeup call, which is a different thing to argue about). Don't hit a guy in the head, don't hit him in the back when he's near the boards, and other than that, you're usually fine. There's still a lot of hitting in hockey. If there's a decline in the hitting, it's for a different reason...I'll elaborate later since I need to go do something at the moment and don't want to type up an even longer post.

My basic gist in all of this is that there are a lot bigger factors driving these changes in the game than "oh man the league! **** the league and how they want to make this game more PC!" and it's been going on for a long time now. It's not just something that has come up with the "new NHL"




I don't necessarily disagree with some of what you're saying but please don't pull this one out. It's a silly argument and I hate it. It seems to be reserved for use by people who can't make their point any other way than "well you'd just KNOW if you'd played!" and you're a better poster than that.[/QUOTE]

I actually think Trotts comment here holds alot of value. Those folks that clammor alot about hitting is part of the game I would venture to guess have never really had their bell rung on a clean hit. Or have been targeted throughut a game with clean hits.

I know when I played, and got rung up, I wanted to take a two hander across the head of the guy that hit me. I didn't because I'm not an idiot, but I was thankful to the guy that did confront the guy who hit me. And I have been thanked in the locker-room and outside of the room for stepping in for my teammates when they get their bell rung.

Star players need to be protected from both dirty AND clean hits. They need to know that they can go out on the ice and feel confident that they can do their jobs. Guys like me (not the most talented individual to every play the game) need to make sure that we do all we can to provide that level of confidence to our star players.

Not all, but alot of the folks that cry when a player is confronted after delivering a vicious and clean hit have never been on the receiving end of said hit. I could almost guarantee that their tune woud surely change after the experience of getting run down by a guy.

I personally believe that this Rangers team doesn't respond (hasn't responded) often enough for a very very long time.

I rememebr when Messier would get looked at funny and Graves jumped right in there. It's one of the attributes that made him such a loved figure in NY. The fact that eveyr player on the ice with him know that if there was the slightest liberty taken, they would have to answer for it. This franchise as gotten so far away from that it's sad.

So when I see Girardi doing what he did last night, it gives me a great sense of pride in this team because it's those actions on the ice that build and breed chemistry. It's those actions that bond a team together.

You can have all the off-ice team activities you want, it means jack in the grand scheme of things.

Knowing in your heart that the guy you haven't spoken to in weeks aside from the occassional hello, is going to do what Girardi did last night builds a foundation of trust that you are truly in this thing together.

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Old
03-16-2009, 08:59 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
First off I didn't say a word about the instigator did I ?
No you didnt, but you should have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
No I don't want a bunch of fights I want hockey with passion and checking, The NHL wants figure skating. Checking is now looked at as violence. Hits like Dubi's today are not illegal. The run Richards took yesterday is he could have ended a career with that one. Let the kids play
Quote:
Originally Posted by pavvento View Post
I don't really want to get into this, because I pretty much agree with most of the posts in this thread, but this one I can't understand.

How can the words "could have ended a career" and "let the kids play" be used seemingly together? I'm all for hitting, passion, and fights. I don't believe in letting it get to a point where headhunting is ok.
The instigator rule is the primary reason that the game seems less tolerant of the big physical play. It allows the pests and middleweights to run around the ice without any fear of retribution.

Imagine we had Stu Grimson on our team and Richards laid out Zherdev the way he did. Richards (in an instigator-less NHL) would expect Grimson to be coming after him. He'd know that he would eventually have to stand up for himself against one of the most feared heavyweights in the game. I'm going to go out on a limb here (not really) and say that in that situation, Richards would think twice about rocking one of our most skilled players regardless of whether or not Z's head was down.

And Paavento...that's the point. Headhunting isn't okay. Your heavyweight is supposed to be there to tell you that its not. And when the other team gets out of line, he has to step in there and show the other team who is boss.

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03-16-2009, 09:16 AM
  #46
Jackson Ranger
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I actually think Trotts comment here holds alot of value. Those folks that clammor alot about hitting is part of the game I would venture to guess have never really had their bell rung on a clean hit. Or have been targeted throughut a game with clean hits.

I know when I played, and got rung up, I wanted to take a two hander across the head of the guy that hit me. I didn't because I'm not an idiot, but I was thankful to the guy that did confront the guy who hit me. And I have been thanked in the locker-room and outside of the room for stepping in for my teammates when they get their bell rung.

Star players need to be protected from both dirty AND clean hits. They need to know that they can go out on the ice and feel confident that they can do their jobs. Guys like me (not the most talented individual to every play the game) need to make sure that we do all we can to provide that level of confidence to our star players.

Not all, but alot of the folks that cry when a player is confronted after delivering a vicious and clean hit have never been on the receiving end of said hit. I could almost guarantee that their tune woud surely change after the experience of getting run down by a guy.

I personally believe that this Rangers team doesn't respond (hasn't responded) often enough for a very very long time.

I rememebr when Messier would get looked at funny and Graves jumped right in there. It's one of the attributes that made him such a loved figure in NY. The fact that eveyr player on the ice with him know that if there was the slightest liberty taken, they would have to answer for it. This franchise as gotten so far away from that it's sad.

So when I see Girardi doing what he did last night, it gives me a great sense of pride in this team because it's those actions on the ice that build and breed chemistry. It's those actions that bond a team together.
You can have all the off-ice team activities you want, it means jack in the grand scheme of things.

Knowing in your heart that the guy you haven't spoken to in weeks aside from the occassional hello, is going to do what Girardi did last night builds a foundation of trust that you are truly in this thing together.
Great post PLD. I actually think the Rangers were pushed around in Philly and if Girardi doesn't step up and take matters into his own hands there, the Rangers were probably in for another long afternoon.

It was a clean check but a dangerous one where one of your more talented players are targeted. You have to step and if you get an addtional penalty then so be it, kill it off and go forward. But to stand back and take that, I think hurts a team more.

As the bozo McGuire said yesterday, the Rangers actually had more push back. Good for Girardi and I have no problem with guys stepping in to defend their players, even on clean, hard hits.

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03-16-2009, 09:21 AM
  #47
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words
Hey, see, you actually put it into a decent argument instead of just saying "well if you had EVER played hockey, you SCRUB! "

And again, it's not something I completely disagree with.

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03-16-2009, 09:43 AM
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great post, Trottier...

Great post also, Jackson - I probably should be saying that to PLD but his post was long and confusing so I just looked at your summarization.

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03-16-2009, 09:49 AM
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BringupBobby..

this is where things get tricky and where I flip-flop, and that's on the instigator rule. A guy checks another guy violently, but cleanly, and then gets jumped. The checker is a willing fighter, so that's good, but the 'instigator' should go to the box and put his team down an extra man. I don't believe in the extra 10 minutes; that I don't understand at all, but if you jump a guy, it should be a penalty. Even if what Richards had done was not legal, say it was boarding, Richards should be getting his 5 minutes + 5 minutes and the jumper should be getting his 2 + 5. I know a lot in the league want to see the instigator rule abolished, and perhaps I can be swayed that way too, but it's hard for me to buy-off on a guy jumping another guy and not getting penalized.

Perhaps the guys to be speaking to are guys like Crosby, Datsyuk, Lidstrom and others who are the face of today's game (and some of yesterday's game) and get their thoughts. I've heard some of these guys say they like the protection (can't remember from whom or when, and perhaps it was Jagr who has spoken about this in the past). Again, I like the old-style hockey, so I'm a bit biased here.

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03-16-2009, 09:58 AM
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but it's hard for me to buy-off on a guy jumping another guy and not getting penalized.
This is kind of where I'm at on that one too. I like the idea of players standing up for the teammates and think that's an important part of the game, but at the same time, it's kind of hard for me to think that jumping another player shouldn't be deserving of extra penalty time. Maybe if the 10 minutes was discretionary, that would help, but I suppose there's the potential for abuse there as well (other player always turtles or something to draw the extra 10 from the attacking player)

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