HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Calgary Flames
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Flames scoring depth underrated

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-14-2004, 03:34 PM
  #1
Sec of Partying Down
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Moscow, Idaho
Country: United States
Posts: 3,035
vCash: 500
Flames scoring depth underrated

Goal scoring is probably the most worrisome thing about the Flames for most Flames fans as they move closer to a playoff spot. However if you look at the stats the Flames have good depth in this department even if there is a lack of top end talent. Here is how I would catagorize the Flames' forwards:

1st liners
Iginla
Conroy
2nd liners
Simon
Gelinas
McAmmond
3rd liners
Saprykin
Clark
Niemenen
Yelle
Nilson
Kobasew
Lombardi
Donovan
4th liners
Oliwa
Lowry
Lyons

Pretty good considering all of the thrid liners are capable of 10-20 goal seasons. Conroy and Iginla are head and shoulders above the rest both are elite players. I didn't include Reinprecht.

Sec of Partying Down is offline  
Old
03-14-2004, 09:22 PM
  #2
Badger Bob
Registered User
 
Badger Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: in my happy place
Country: Germany
Posts: 5,286
vCash: 500
With all due respect to the effort put in, these types of categorizations are only impressive to the 10,000+ post know-it-alls on the Trade Rumors board. They always seem to know precisely how a player should be ranked, and what his exact "value" is around the league. The bottom line is winning. The New Jersey Devils didn't miss a beat after parting ways with high level talent such as Bill Guerin, Brendan Morrison & Bobby Holik.

For argument's sake, let's consider the list. Sorry, McAmmond cannot objectively be considered a 2nd liner. With more consistency, Donovan certainly could be seen as working his way to that level. Lyons is an AHLer, not a 4 liner, and Lowry should just retire. Gelinas is more suited being the 3rd line LW. Clark is a candidate to be moved prior to the start of the next season, and moved down the organizational depth chart. Realistically, Iginla is the only bona fide first liner on the team.

If Simon creates more space for Conroy (who wouldn't be on too many 1st line lists, come to think of it) & Iginla, and can bang in rebounds, then he belongs on the top line. Some apprehension was expressed by a few, prior to, and after, his recent acquistion. That apprehension has been shown to be unfounded. Nilson & Niemenen are also making their presence felt. Offense shouldn't be a major concern.


Last edited by Badger Bob: 03-25-2004 at 07:44 PM.
Badger Bob is offline  
Old
03-14-2004, 09:47 PM
  #3
Flames 1st pick
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 6,220
vCash: 500
1st liners
Iginla
3rd liners
Simon
Gelinas
McAmmond
Saprykin
Niemenen
Yelle
Nilson
Kobasew
Lombardi
Donovan
4th liners
Oliwa
Clark

I agreed with Badger Bob, they dont need 1st/2nd liners to be succesful. They have 3 very good lines.

Flames 1st pick is offline  
Old
03-15-2004, 12:43 AM
  #4
Cactus Jack
Registered User
 
Cactus Jack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 2,912
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Cactus Jack
I think Calgary's scoring depth is pretty decent.

FIRST LINERS
Iggy

SECOND LINERS
Reinprecht
McAmmond
Gelinas

THIRD LINERS

LOMBARDI
KOBASEW
SAPRYKIN
DONOVAN
NIEMINEN
NILSON
SIMON

Cactus Jack is offline  
Old
03-15-2004, 02:36 AM
  #5
kruezer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 6,279
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger Bob
With all due respect to the effort put in, these types of categorizations are only impressive to the 10,000+ post know-it-alls on the Trade Rumors board. They always seem to know precisely how a player should be ranked, and what his exact "value" is around the league. The bottom line is winning. The New Jersey Devils didn't miss a beat after parting ways with high level talent such as Bill Guerin, Brendan Morrison & Bobby Holik.

For argument's sake, let's consider the list. Sorry, McAmmond cannot objectively be considered a 2nd liner. With more consistency, Donovan certainly could be seen as working his way to that level. Lyons is an AHLer, not a 4 liner, and Lowry should just retire. Yelle is more suited being the 3rd line LW. Clark is a candidate to be moved prior to the start of the next season, and moved down the organizational depth chart. Realistically, Iginla is the only bona fide first liner on the team.

If Simon creates more space for Conroy (who wouldn't be on too many 1st line lists, come to think of it) & Iginla, and can bang in rebounds, then he belongs on the top line. Some apprehension was expressed by a few, prior to, and after, his recent acquistion. That apprehension has been shown to be unfounded. Nilson & Niemenen are also making their presence felt. Offense shouldn't be a major concern.
I don't know BB, I'm really starting to believe in Conroy's offense. But I could be wrong

I'd like Yelle as a C though, he is solid on the draws and great both ways as a 3rd line C.

kruezer is offline  
Old
03-15-2004, 08:40 AM
  #6
Badger Bob
Registered User
 
Badger Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: in my happy place
Country: Germany
Posts: 5,286
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kruezer
I don't know BB, I'm really starting to believe in Conroy's offense. But I could be wrong
It's no knock on Conroy's offense. He played great on Saturday night, especially.

If you're going to rank true line first line centers by a scout's definition: think of Sakic, Forsberg, Federov, Thornton, Modano, Koivu, Roenick, Lemieux, Weight, Lecavelier, Sundin, Morrison, Lang and maybe one or two others. Conroy doesn't fit into that group. A true #1 NHL center would be capable of centering a scoring line on an Olympic or World Cup team. Successful teams, such as Ottawa & NJ do not have these types of elite level pivots, and are nevertheless considered serious contenders.

Badger Bob is offline  
Old
03-15-2004, 04:41 PM
  #7
Flames Draft Watcher
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Calgary
Posts: 4,553
vCash: 500
I'd say you'd have a stronger argument for putting Reinprecht as a 1st liner in the NHL than Conroy. Reinprecht has some sick skills. Probably the best pure passer I've ever seen on the Flames. I'm going to expect big things from a healthy Reinprecht.

Flames Draft Watcher is offline  
Old
03-15-2004, 09:04 PM
  #8
xxIn_Flamesxx
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 67
vCash: 500
#1 center

i guess it depends what the definition of a first line center is. I always thought of a first line center as the 30 best centers in the league because if the league had equality each team would have a first line center if that makes any sense. if going by this definition i think it would be hard to put 30+ other centers before conroy but i could be wrong.

xxIn_Flamesxx is offline  
Old
03-15-2004, 11:57 PM
  #9
Bicycle Repairman
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,695
vCash: 500
First of all, it's Loyns. The man's name is Loyns. L-O-Y-N-S.

Pffft! There's no scoring depth on this squad. Sutter has managed to cobble together a motley collection of role players and can-do gamers no doubt, but there's no indication that this amalgamation of alchemy will translate into any sort of success beyond an obligatory playoff appearance followed by quick deletion.

The Calgary Flames, organizationally, are still a real mess in terms of future. A pared-down farm system operating on life support, an uncertain economic outlook vis-a-vis the CBA meltdown, and few legit prospects on the horizon stack up to being a pretty tough order for Darryl Sutter to fufill.

Bicycle Repairman is offline  
Old
03-16-2004, 01:00 PM
  #10
Flames Draft Watcher
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Calgary
Posts: 4,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bicycle Repairman
The Calgary Flames, organizationally, are still a real mess in terms of future. A pared-down farm system operating on life support, an uncertain economic outlook vis-a-vis the CBA meltdown, and few legit prospects on the horizon stack up to being a pretty tough order for Darryl Sutter to fufill.
You don't appear to take into account the good young players already on the roster who will be expected to continue to improve and take on greater roles and responsibilities.

Some of the Flames bright young players include Regehr, Leopold, Lombardi, Saprykin, and Kobasew. Looks fairly promising to me when you combine those with some of the guy's in their 20's like Nilson, Nieminen, Iginla, Lydman, etc.

Future looks bright to me. This organization has the best depth it's had in the past 8 or more years.

Flames Draft Watcher is offline  
Old
03-17-2004, 08:57 AM
  #11
Badger Bob
Registered User
 
Badger Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: in my happy place
Country: Germany
Posts: 5,286
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bicycle Repairman
there's no indication that this amalgamation of alchemy will translate into any sort of success beyond an obligatory playoff appearance followed by quick deletion.
"Obligatory" hardly seems like the right word, when it's been 7 years since the last post-season appearance.

Badger Bob is offline  
Old
03-17-2004, 10:43 AM
  #12
Ironchef Chris Wok*
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Red Sox Nation
Country: Taiwan
Posts: 12,538
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Ironchef Chris Wok*
A successful team has CHEMISTRY and HARD WORK.

Talent is great, but talent that don't click doesn't work.

Ironchef Chris Wok* is offline  
Old
03-17-2004, 12:24 PM
  #13
Darth Milbury
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Darth Milbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Searching for Kvasha
Country: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 39,994
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger Bob
With all due respect to the effort put in, these types of categorizations are only impressive to the 10,000+ post know-it-alls on the Trade Rumors board. They always seem to know precisely how a player should be ranked, and what his exact "value" is around the league. The bottom line is winning. The New Jersey Devils didn't miss a beat after parting ways with high level talent such as Bill Guerin, Brendan Morrison & Bobby Holik.

.

Probably the most insightful comment I've seen on this board in the last several months.

__________________
Man, do I ever miss Oleg Kvasha. If Oleg was here, everything would be OK.
Darth Milbury is offline  
Old
03-17-2004, 01:01 PM
  #14
Freudian
Classless IMO
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 32,845
vCash: 0
I think the main advantage the Flames have over other teams in the west (apart from the Sharks) is that they have played playoff hockey all season. They don't really have to adjust in any way. Just keep going like they have.

A bit similar to Wild last year.

Freudian is offline  
Old
03-17-2004, 09:25 PM
  #15
Badger Bob
Registered User
 
Badger Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: in my happy place
Country: Germany
Posts: 5,286
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Probably the most insightful comment I've seen on this board in the last several months.
Oh, there are a few diamonds in the rough...if you look hard enough.

Badger Bob is offline  
Old
03-17-2004, 10:33 PM
  #16
xxIn_Flamesxx
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 67
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bicycle Repairman
First of all, it's Loyns. The man's name is Loyns. L-O-Y-N-S.

Pffft! There's no scoring depth on this squad. Sutter has managed to cobble together a motley collection of role players and can-do gamers no doubt, but there's no indication that this amalgamation of alchemy will translate into any sort of success beyond an obligatory playoff appearance followed by quick deletion.

The Calgary Flames, organizationally, are still a real mess in terms of future. A pared-down farm system operating on life support, an uncertain economic outlook vis-a-vis the CBA meltdown, and few legit prospects on the horizon stack up to being a pretty tough order for Darryl Sutter to fufill.
Hey you stupid blue collar bicycle repairman! Why don't you stop using the thesauraus for a second to think about what you are typing. The Calgary Flames have several young guys coming through the system and on the team already in Nystrom, Nilson, Saprykin, Kobasew, Lombardi, Phaneuf, Regehr, Leopold. As for your reference to the uncertain economic outlook most of our salaries are up at the end of the year including Iginla and Conroy so I don't think we are in as much trouble as a lot of teams.

Finally, as for your analysis that Calgary won't have any success in the playoffs why don't you take a look at the Western Conference finalists you ****. Minnesota vs. Anaheim! Two teams that were known for using tight defensive systems and really only had one or two offensive stars combined with a bunch of hardworking grinding players "vis a vis" (thats right I can also use a thesauraus too!) Nilson, Yelle, Conroy, and Nieminen. Get your head out of your ass and get back to repairing that bicycle ****!


Last edited by Badger Bob: 03-18-2004 at 08:54 AM. Reason: name-calling & profanity
xxIn_Flamesxx is offline  
Old
03-18-2004, 05:25 AM
  #17
Bicycle Repairman
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,695
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger Bob
"Obligatory" hardly seems like the right word, when it's been 7 years since the last post-season appearance.
Well I suppose squeaking into the playoffs is all fine and dandy. I guess some people are into that sort of thing.


Last edited by Bicycle Repairman: 03-18-2004 at 05:49 AM.
Bicycle Repairman is offline  
Old
03-18-2004, 07:41 AM
  #18
Ironchef Chris Wok*
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Red Sox Nation
Country: Taiwan
Posts: 12,538
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Ironchef Chris Wok*
Squeaking into the playoffs >>>>>>>>> not making the playoffs. That's the bottom line.

Even 2 games is extra playoff revenue, which can be used to improve the team.
Even a 4 game sweep gives a young team valuable experience. Playoff hockey IS playoff hockey. No amount of regular season play can replace it.

Not to mention, the Flames just MIGHT do some damage. They are run by a Sutter.

They DO play the games for a reason.

Ironchef Chris Wok* is offline  
Old
03-18-2004, 08:53 AM
  #19
Badger Bob
Registered User
 
Badger Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: in my happy place
Country: Germany
Posts: 5,286
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bicycle Repairman
Well I suppose squeaking into the playoffs is all fine and dandy. I guess some people are into that sort of thing.
Don't rule out the possibility of facing the Bertuzzi-less Canucks during the first round WITH home ice advantage. That wouldn't exactly be just squeaking in. The Flames are pretty well clear of the Blues in the points standings. After 23 straight years of post-season appearances, St. Louis might be relieved to continue the streak.

You have to win to be in...

Badger Bob is offline  
Old
03-18-2004, 09:18 AM
  #20
FLAMESFAN
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Antarctica
Posts: 2,491
vCash: 50
I'm thinking it's going to be LA who is the team out. And, it might be in our best intrests NOT to have home ice advantage against the Nucks!

FLAMESFAN is offline  
Old
03-18-2004, 01:13 PM
  #21
Ar-too
Registered User
 
Ar-too's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Columbus, OH
Country: United States
Posts: 10,454
vCash: 561
Send a message via AIM to Ar-too
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironchef Chris Wok
Squeaking into the playoffs >>>>>>>>> not making the playoffs. That's the bottom line.
Just ask a Blue Jackets' fan.

Ar-too is offline  
Old
03-18-2004, 01:34 PM
  #22
Flames Draft Watcher
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Calgary
Posts: 4,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bicycle Repairman
Well I suppose squeaking into the playoffs is all fine and dandy. I guess some people are into that sort of thing.
Squeaking makes me think of 8th place.

Have you checked the standings lately?

Your excessive negativity seems unwarranted given the Flames fortunes. Why do you insist on being such a pessimist? Why must you grasp at straws for the dark lining in the silver cloud? To me you appear to be a Flames critic, not a Flames FAN.


Last edited by Flames Draft Watcher: 03-18-2004 at 01:37 PM.
Flames Draft Watcher is offline  
Old
03-18-2004, 04:29 PM
  #23
Bicycle Repairman
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,695
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
Squeaking makes me think of 8th place.

Have you checked the standings lately?

Your excessive negativity seems unwarranted given the Flames fortunes. Why do you insist on being such a pessimist? Why must you grasp at straws for the dark lining in the silver cloud? To me you appear to be a Flames critic, not a Flames FAN.
Until the Flames are perrenial Stanley Cup contenders (or forbid actually win the thing), I shall be curbing my enthusiasm.

Bicycle Repairman is offline  
Old
03-18-2004, 04:38 PM
  #24
Badger Bob
Registered User
 
Badger Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: in my happy place
Country: Germany
Posts: 5,286
vCash: 500
Looks Sutter has some motivational material to post on the locker room wall.

Badger Bob is offline  
Old
03-18-2004, 05:31 PM
  #25
Flames Draft Watcher
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Calgary
Posts: 4,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bicycle Repairman
Until the Flames are perrenial Stanley Cup contenders (or forbid actually win the thing), I shall be curbing my enthusiasm.
There's a big difference between curbing your enthusiasm and only finding negatives in our best season in 7 years. I really can't recall you saying anything positive about the Flames in the past year. People might actually take you seriously if you did something other than rag on the Flames all the time.

Flames Draft Watcher is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:20 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.