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EDM-STL on draft day

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Old
03-12-2009, 12:44 PM
  #1
Roof Daddy
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EDM-STL on draft day

If St.Loo is in the 8-10 range, and the Oilers 15-17

To STL: Visnovsky, EDM 1st, EDM 4th

To EDM: STL 1st, STL 3rd

STL moves back anywhere from 5-9 spots in the 1st rd, and from say another 35 spots in a 3rd for 4th swap. With plenty of caproom, they land a smooth skating proven puckmover (unless they feel Coliacovo is the man) that would look great along EJ next year. The move back doesn't really effect a team that already has the best group of prospects in the league.

The Oil clear the necessary cap space to grab JBo, who wants to play in his hometown.

Thoughts?

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Old
03-12-2009, 12:49 PM
  #2
camarodude39
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No thanks. The Blues have a glutton of NHL ready defensemen coming in. When healthy, the Blues have:

EJ
Brewer
Jackman
Polak
Coliacovo
Petro(maybe ready?)
McKee
Cole(maybe ready?)
Wagner
Junland

Plus Fairchild a few years out. No point in the Blues sacrificing higher picks to gain another expensive defensemen when we can build a defensive core in-house.

Now if you want to take on McKee's contract, we can talk

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Old
03-12-2009, 12:52 PM
  #3
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I am sure NHL teams are just chomping at the bit to take on Visnovsky expensive long-term contract when it is very much unknown how much the cap will go down in the next few years.

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Old
03-12-2009, 01:01 PM
  #4
gonzo11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
If St.Loo is in the 8-10 range, and the Oilers 15-17

To STL: Visnovsky, EDM 1st, EDM 4th

To EDM: STL 1st, STL 3rd

STL moves back anywhere from 5-9 spots in the 1st rd, and from say another 35 spots in a 3rd for 4th swap. With plenty of caproom, they land a smooth skating proven puckmover (unless they feel Coliacovo is the man) that would look great along EJ next year. The move back doesn't really effect a team that already has the best group of prospects in the league.

The Oil clear the necessary cap space to grab JBo, who wants to play in his hometown.

Thoughts?
Oilers laugh at this siggeston. It is the media talking about Jaybo to the oilers cause they got nothing else to talk about.

There is only 5 draft spots between the oilers and the blues. Blues are drafting 9th right now--overpayment for the 9th overall pick.

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Old
03-12-2009, 01:10 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
If St.Loo is in the 8-10 range, and the Oilers 15-17

To STL: Visnovsky, EDM 1st, EDM 4th

To EDM: STL 1st, STL 3rd

STL moves back anywhere from 5-9 spots in the 1st rd, and from say another 35 spots in a 3rd for 4th swap. With plenty of caproom, they land a smooth skating proven puckmover (unless they feel Coliacovo is the man) that would look great along EJ next year. The move back doesn't really effect a team that already has the best group of prospects in the league.

The Oil clear the necessary cap space to grab JBo, who wants to play in his hometown.

Thoughts?
I can't see the Blue having interest in Visnovsky. JD and Pleau have been patient until now and I think they are ready to become a bonafide playoff team but I don't see them rushing out to make a deal like this.

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Old
03-12-2009, 01:12 PM
  #6
AlMo
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Originally Posted by burkesuks View Post
Oilers laugh at this siggeston. It is the media talking about Jaybo to the oilers cause they got nothing else to talk about.

There is only 5 draft spots between the oilers and the blues. Blues are drafting 9th right now--overpayment for the 9th overall pick.
It's not overpayment if the Oil have a plan in place. If the Oilers were to sign Bouwmeester (who would be an upgrade on Visnovsky imo) the deal would be for Bouw and a top 10 pick.

I really don't see how that is an overpayment? Only 5 draft spots? If you were talking about 4th picks then yes but 5 spots in the top 15 is very huge. The Oilers can get a better player at 9 then they are going to get a 14 so to brush off 5 draft slots is a bit stupid if you ask me.

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Old
03-12-2009, 01:14 PM
  #7
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with the depth at D St. Louis polity says no thanks and hangs up.

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Old
03-12-2009, 01:42 PM
  #8
nally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camarodude39 View Post
No thanks. The Blues have a glutton of NHL ready defensemen coming in. When healthy, the Blues have:

EJ
Brewer
Jackman
Polak
Coliacovo
Petro(maybe ready?)
McKee
Cole(maybe ready?)
Wagner
Junland

Plus Fairchild a few years out. No point in the Blues sacrificing higher picks to gain another expensive defensemen when we can build a defensive core in-house.

Now if you want to take on McKee's contract, we can talk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluester View Post
with the depth at D St. Louis polity says no thanks and hangs up.
I'm sorry, where on this list is a "proven" puck moving defensman? Having a lot of young skilled players is great. Whats better is someone to actually teach them how to reach their potential much faster then just figuring it out on their own.

Look what Schneider did for Bagosian.

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Old
03-12-2009, 02:28 PM
  #9
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Originally Posted by nally View Post
I'm sorry, where on this list is a "proven" puck moving defensman? Having a lot of young skilled players is great. Whats better is someone to actually teach them how to reach their potential much faster then just figuring it out on their own.

Look what Schneider did for Bagosian.
I'm sure Al MacInnis might have time to throw out some pointers...
our top D prospects / youth are a 1st overall and 4th overall pick, they're legit, and there's no denying that they'll only improve with or without an on ice mentor.

If the sole reason for picking one up is to avoid taking chances on the youth or help mentor them they'll find a cheaper route.

If the Blues do land the pick they're positioned for now they'll definitely want to use it on a future (or promising) top 6 forward. Unless they can land a #1 net minder or a current 1st line goal scorer with that pick. (although I'm sure they'll just find a way to replace Kariya with one after his contract runs out)

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Old
03-12-2009, 02:33 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camarodude39 View Post
No thanks. The Blues have a glutton of NHL ready defensemen coming in. When healthy, the Blues have:

EJ
Brewer
Jackman
Polak
Coliacovo
Petro(maybe ready?)
McKee
Cole(maybe ready?)
Wagner
Junland

Plus Fairchild a few years out. No point in the Blues sacrificing higher picks to gain another expensive defensemen when we can build a defensive core in-house.

Now if you want to take on McKee's contract, we can talk
Yay for one of the seven deadly sins.

but you're right, STL has a glut of NHL defensemen. any deal bringing a defenseman to STL would need to see one going back the other way.

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Old
03-12-2009, 02:35 PM
  #11
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This trade makes no sense for the Oilers. If they wanted to clear up cap space to sign Jay-Bo then there are a lot of other ways to go about it. One of those includes trading Vish for a lot more than what the OP proposed.

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Old
03-12-2009, 03:09 PM
  #12
Giggli G
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Lol. Once again confirms that Visnovsky is the most underrated player on hfboards. The idea that St. Louis wouldn't want him because they have 'other NHL-ready D-Men'. How many are top 15 in the league? Economics I can understand, but not that.

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Old
03-12-2009, 03:52 PM
  #13
rigger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedgehog Hodgson View Post
I am sure NHL teams are just chomping at the bit to take on Visnovsky expensive long-term contract when it is very much unknown how much the cap will go down in the next few years.
This really is rediculous. I don't mind people thinking he is underrated but I will tell you this right now, unless the Oilers have an under the table agreement with Bouwmeester, they won't trade Visnovsky alone for STL 1st, STL 3rd. It would take much more. Visnovsky would be far and away the best d man St.Louis has.

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Old
03-12-2009, 03:54 PM
  #14
Oshie97
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Originally Posted by rigger View Post
This really is rediculous. I don't mind people thinking he is underrated but I will tell you this right now, unless the Oilers have an under the table agreement with Bouwmeester, they won't trade Visnovsky alone for STL 1st, STL 3rd. It would take much more. Visnovsky would be far and away the best d man St.Louis has.
WOW, guess you never heard of EJ. By far and away huh?

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Old
03-12-2009, 04:02 PM
  #15
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Fair enough, bad fit I guess. From an outsiders perspective, to me it looked like the Blues biggest need was a legit puck moving PP QB. I like the way they've built there D, there's much to be excited about, but Coliacovo is about the only guy there that qualifies as puck mover, and salaries aside, he is nowhere near the same caliber as Vis. There's no doubt you could find a cheaper option than Vis in the UFA market, but who as good in this years UFA crop? (And don't say JBo, cuz he ain't headed there).

To Oilers fans, if we aren't taking salary back, this is about fair market (IMO). Is Vis a top pairing Dman? Yes. Does he get paid like a top pairing Dman? Yes. His contract is market, its not a steal, and its not an albatross. So could St.Loo just say no and grab a UFA for similar money instead, yes. Would they be bidding against other teams, possibly paying more? Yes. However, this year there aren't really any puckmovers hitting the open market, hence the proposal.

If we take back salary, yes we get a better deal, but then there's no signing JBo without moving other parts. I don't really want to see our GM pull a Tampa Bay this off-season.

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Old
03-12-2009, 04:10 PM
  #16
camarodude39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
Fair enough, bad fit I guess. From an outsiders perspective, to me it looked like the Blues biggest need was a legit puck moving PP QB. I like the way they've built there D, there's much to be excited about, but Coliacovo is about the only guy there that qualifies as puck mover, and salaries aside, he is nowhere near the same caliber as Vis. There's no doubt you could find a cheaper option than Vis in the UFA market, but who as good in this years UFA crop? (And don't say JBo, cuz he ain't headed there).

To Oilers fans, if we aren't taking salary back, this is about fair market (IMO). Is Vis a top pairing Dman? Yes. Does he get paid like a top pairing Dman? Yes. His contract is market, its not a steal, and its not an albatross. So could St.Loo just say no and grab a UFA for similar money instead, yes. Would they be bidding against other teams, possibly paying more? Yes. However, this year there aren't really any puckmovers hitting the open market, hence the proposal.

If we take back salary, yes we get a better deal, but then there's no signing JBo without moving other parts. I don't really want to see our GM pull a Tampa Bay this off-season.
I would consider EJ a puck moving defensemen that will QB the Blues powerplay. What St. Louis really needs is to stay reasonably healthy.

The main reason the Blues say no to this deal is because there is alot of money tied up defense already with Brewer($4.5), McKee($4) and Jackman(~$4), and EJ will be off his entry level contract after next season, and will see a decent boost. The Blues just wont take on another big contract without moving one, which means McKee would likely have to be included in the deal for the Blues perspective, and that pretty much defeats the purpose of EDM doing the deal because it doesn't open up much cap space for next year...although long term, it could help them since McKee only has 1 year remaining after this season.

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Old
03-12-2009, 04:13 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigger View Post
This really is rediculous. I don't mind people thinking he is underrated but I will tell you this right now, unless the Oilers have an under the table agreement with Bouwmeester, they won't trade Visnovsky alone for STL 1st, STL 3rd. It would take much more. Visnovsky would be far and away the best d man St.Louis has.
Two hyperboles don't make a levelheaded statement.

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Old
03-12-2009, 04:23 PM
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WOW, guess you never heard of EJ. By far and away huh?
I am about as big an EJ fan as there is outside of the Blues, and there is no way EJ brings what Lubo does right now. EJ will likely get there eventually and probably pass him, but for right now, Lubo is better then EJ.

Oh yeah, and the Oiler pass on this deal.

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Old
03-12-2009, 04:55 PM
  #19
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
I am about as big an EJ fan as there is outside of the Blues, and there is no way EJ brings what Lubo does right now. EJ will likely get there eventually and probably pass him, but for right now, Lubo is better then EJ.

Oh yeah, and the Oiler pass on this deal.
Johnson was better than Lubo by the 2nd half of his rookie season.

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03-12-2009, 05:02 PM
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People are going to be shocked at what it will take to move a big contract with term starting this offseason. Forget about the value you may place on a given player, if you want to move salary it will cost you. You won't see ANY first round picks dealt at the draft for 4 or 5 million dollar contracts.

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Old
03-12-2009, 05:03 PM
  #21
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WOW, guess you never heard of EJ. By far and away huh?
I'm a HUGE EJ fan - but how many 21 YO guys with 60+ games of NHL experience are legit top pairing d-man? EJ's ceiling as an overall d-man is higher than Vish's IMO, but the on ice performance next year is something else entirely. Especially with Johnson not playing for over a year.

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Old
03-12-2009, 05:06 PM
  #22
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Absolutely not from an Oilers perspective.

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Old
03-12-2009, 05:09 PM
  #23
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I am about as big an EJ fan as there is outside of the Blues, and there is no way EJ brings what Lubo does right now. EJ will likely get there eventually and probably pass him, but for right now, Lubo is better then EJ.

Oh yeah, and the Oiler pass on this deal.
This is Hockey's FUTURE boards remember...

Every single young player with high billing is infinitely and unfailingly better than any veteran at that position.

I've been watching hockey for a long time, and I don't know if I've seen a defenceman better at manouevering the puck through tight spaces down low or engineering a breakout better than Visnovsky. He is truly a top flight, finesse defenceman.

By the way, this proposal is pure garbage.

It's essentially Visnovsky and Edmonton's fourth for a third round pick ....


Last edited by OntOilFan: 03-12-2009 at 05:15 PM.
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Old
03-12-2009, 05:10 PM
  #24
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This is Hockey's FUTURE boards remember...

Every single young player with high billings is infinitely and unfailinly better than any veteran at that position.
But not Rob Schremp

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Old
03-12-2009, 05:20 PM
  #25
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I'd do this trade in a heartbeat as a Blues fan, if Vish checks out healthy this offseason.

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