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Old
03-17-2009, 12:52 AM
  #1
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Regarding Tom Renney

I know there was already an appreciation thread for Renney. But the dust has settled a bit and with the team performing better, he seems to be a bit of an easy target lately and it seems that a lot of the things he did do well are getting lost in the mix. So I wanted to take an opportunity to give the guy some props.

I was personally fairly vocal about wanting a new coach, and felt that it should have happened in the off-season, after the horrific showing we had against the Pens. Even still, I don't want to lose sight of the awesome things Renney did for the team, the organization and for us fans.

Renney worked well with Jagr. And those two guys were vital in collaborating to take a team that had become a joke and had lost its way, and they placed it back on the map. At this point, it's possible Renney squeezed all the juice he could get out of the orange. But in his first few seasons, he seemed to be the right guy -- at the right time -- to center this team, get its focus back, and get it to look like a real NHL team again. For me personally, the Renney-Jagr era got me back to a point where I wanted to watch every Ranger game again. Which is awesome.

The recent coaching change seems like the right thing. I am happy for the team's current play, and the overall increase in energy and productivity on the ice. I do not, however, want to lose sight of what Renney brought to the organization and what he did for us fans.

I honestly don't care if anyone responds to this thread or not. I was just feeling a little, I dunno, guilt maybe, at seeing a class act like Renney have to go and felt compelled to take a moment to acknowledge a few of the things that the guy did well, as well as what he has meant for us fans.

Thank you Mr. Renney ... you and Jagr came in at a time when we needed you, put some respect back into what had become a joke, and you got me taping every game again. Hats off.

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03-17-2009, 01:09 AM
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Thanks for posting this man. These are some good points that every Ranger fan should understand. Torts is what this team needs now, but Renney's lack of success right before his firing should not overshadow how he helped repair this franchise coming out of the lockout.

I agree with everything you said.

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03-17-2009, 01:17 AM
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Not Renney's fault his ****** roster gave up on him. Not Renney's fault he didn't have an Avery, Antropov or Morris, either.

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03-17-2009, 01:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Not Renney's fault his ****** roster gave up on him. Not Renney's fault he didn't have an Avery, Antropov or Morris, either.
Actually it IS his fault he didnt have avery,antropov or morris or anyone else for that matter,he just kept going back to his BS about "we can win with what we've got"

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03-17-2009, 01:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Not Renney's fault his ****** roster gave up on him. Not Renney's fault he didn't have an Avery, Antropov or Morris, either.
Sting, you're right man, the team crapped out on him. But I am not trying to focus on that, just trying to say thanks. A change has been made, and none of us can alter it. But this thread isn't about that. I am just trying to take a second to again thank a guy who gave the team and the fans a lot to be thankful for. If anyone responds here, I hope we can all stay focused on that.

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03-17-2009, 03:48 AM
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I thought it was really classy when Pat Dapuzzo was talking about Renney being one of the smartest guys in the NHL and specifically complimented how he handles some of the younger players.

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Old
03-17-2009, 06:08 AM
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95% of Rangers fans understand what Renney did for this team. The day he was fired there was a thread titled "Thank you Tom Renney" with about 5 pages of nothing but all of the positive things he did for this team.

At the same time, most of us think that he got us as far as he was ever going to. We're trying to win a Stanley Cup; not just simply squeeze into the playoffs for a first or second round exit. That doesn't mean that because we wanted him gone that we don't think he did anything for this organization. As I stated in the other thread, it's a well-known cliche in history that "the starter of a revolution often does not get to see its end." Any Ranger fan with half of a brain realizes how much good Renney did for this organization. Unfortunately he just wasn't the guy that was going to bring us to that level.

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03-17-2009, 07:44 AM
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Renney did a great job with the younger players and helped turn the ship around. However, he is terrible behind the bench. The guy simply can't manage a game. It all started 3 weeks into being a Ranger head coach when during an interview between periods, he stated that he didn't believe in matchups and liked to roll his lines. He also didn't believe in putting his best faceoff guys on the ice in critical situations. (See Nylander) Renney often missed the opportunity to call a necessary time out. He believed his 4th line with Orr and Hollweg could score a goal in the final 5 minutes when we were down. Despite turnover after turnover resulting in goals against, Renney never sat Gomez, Malik or Zherdev. Apparently he still believes the Scott Gomez blind backhand saucer pass in the neutral zone is a good thing as he couldn't get him back on the ice soon enough. Renney did a phenomenal job for this team if you ignore those 60 minutes of hockey we had to play every 2-3 days...

P.S. THE POWERPLAY

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03-17-2009, 08:06 AM
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I think I'd just put it this way.

Tortorella would have a LOT more work to do if Renney hadn't been the coach before him.

I think I've eventually settled on the idea that both Renney and the players lost their way during this season. The players struggled, and Renney wasn't sure how to handle those struggles and couldn't break the team out of its slump. But a lot of the fundamentals that he coached into this team over the past 3 years will make things a lot easier for Tortorella

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03-17-2009, 08:30 AM
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The most embarrassing part of it all was how these players quit on him.


I understood the need for a change and new voice because this team just gave up.


And to do it to someone who did so much for them was really embarrassing.

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03-17-2009, 08:42 AM
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it's weird, but I've pretty much moved on. Not criticizing Renney or praising, just focusing on the task at hand and the current coach and players. It was the right move to make at that time. I thought the players on this team didn't deserve such a move and feel that it's a shame it came down to that, but that's the way it unfortunately is. I've lost a lot of respect for a few of the players on this team, particularly the leaders, and perhaps by some stoke of luck, Sather can change this roster a bit in the offseason (a virtual impossibility). But again, I've moved on from Renney, who I was critical of from day 1, but am not too ignorant to totally ignore any good he may've done here.

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03-17-2009, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
The most embarrassing part of it all was how these players quit on him.


I understood the need for a change and new voice because this team just gave up.


And to do it to someone who did so much for them was really embarrassing.
I disagree. If your boss was holding you back and preventing you from performing at your best, you would give up on him too. The style this team was playing was stifling, both on the opponent and on the Rangers themselves. You could actually see the weight on the player's shoulders as they played in fear of making a mistake, and you could tell that they all felt they could do better if given a little bit of freedom.

Renney came in and laid a foundation for success. It was necessary, and he did a great job of that. But, once all of the guys had bought in, and the defensive side of the play became second nature, it was time to loosen the reins a bit and let the boys create. He didn't do that, and it was frustrating for everyone (players, fans, analysts, etc.).

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03-17-2009, 08:49 AM
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Synergy - if my boss was holding me back and I gave up then I don't make money. So giving up is not an option for me. It is for guys like Drury and Gomez, since they have guaranteed contracts and really can't be fired. But I don't fully buy into the notion that Renney was holding them back. I don't disagree that Renney thinks defense first and isn't the most creative coach out there, but on some nights, these guys seemed to just not care, and that's not right. Further, on some nights they were just careless. I'm glad Drury, with his two assists, -3 rating and 10 PIMs in his last 5 games, is now a happy camper. That makes me feel better.

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Old
03-17-2009, 09:43 AM
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Renney's time was up. I liked the guy, very good coach, but it just didn't workout for this team. They definitely stopped responding and gave up on his system, that was as plain as day. Maybe it was for the best....

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03-17-2009, 09:58 AM
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Teaching, strategic planning, handling the press, selecting assistants, kissing Jagr, are all things you do until game time. When the puck drops, you become a "coach", the leader of the bench. He wasn't a very good "coach". The primary reason he was fired.

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03-17-2009, 10:36 AM
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I think credit for revitalizing the organization should go like this:

Lundqvist
Jagr
Renney

Renney did some good things here, but he also had me scratching my head so many times that I'm surprised I'm not bald right now. His misuse of the time out had probably cost us numerous games both in the regular season and in the playoffs. I also got tired of his passive aggressiveness behind the bench.

Of course you have to put some of the blame on the players, but the reality is that it's human nature to want to almost give up when the direction the team was headed in was as ambiguous as it was

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03-17-2009, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Renney's time was up. I liked the guy, very good coach, but it just didn't workout for this team. They definitely stopped responding and gave up on his system, that was as plain as day. Maybe it was for the best....
I don't think Renney ever lost his team. Neither did Carbonnau or Terrien among other firings of late. All the three have exhausted the roster abilities after big player losses. Habs lost Streit and later Lang and went downhill after plus got goalie failure. They didn't do much to change the roster, except for getting Scheider and may be going down still. Pitt lost Malone and Armstrong and had hard time to recover after that the entire season. Addition of Kunitz and Guerin got them going. Rangers lost Jagr, Avery, Straka and Shanny. That was the Renney's sentence. He kept the sinking ship afloat longer then it was worth, but Lundqvist mediocre season killed it totally. Replacement of the couple of midgets with Avery and Antropov was the shot in the arm that team needed much more than anything. The coach change didn't do any harm, but I don't think it was the primary reason for the team and its goalie improvement.

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03-17-2009, 10:39 AM
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Dear Tom,

Thanks for leaving!

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Old
03-17-2009, 11:09 AM
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I was angry when Renney got canned because frankly I thought that the blame should have gone to the team particularly the best paid players who often enough didn't show up. Looking back though I think that the change should have happened sooner as there is little doubt we were just spinning our wheels for two months. I think though that the contractual cap problems we face because of three grossly overpaid players--two of which continue to struggle--Redden and Drury is still something that needs to be fixed. Tortorella at least has the team all going in the same direction. Renney had lost the team.

Even so--I think Tom is a classy guy (even though he didn't give Prucha enough of a chance this year) and I hope he stays with the organization--maybe going back to player development which is where he really seems to thrive.

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Old
03-17-2009, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
The most embarrassing part of it all was how these players quit on him.


I understood the need for a change and new voice because this team just gave up.


And to do it to someone who did so much for them was really embarrassing.


you have to look beyond the game and have to understand that all is relative, these players rely on stats for big contracts, renney's system did not allow any of these players to flourish and put up big #'s....

you cannot blame the players for wanting him out.. thats business !!!

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03-17-2009, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
I don't think Renney ever lost his team. Neither did Carbonnau or Terrien among other firings of late. All the three have exhausted the roster abilities after big player losses. Habs lost Streit and later Lang and went downhill after plus got goalie failure. They didn't do much to change the roster, except for getting Scheider and may be going down still. Pitt lost Malone and Armstrong and had hard time to recover after that the entire season. Addition of Kunitz and Guerin got them going. Rangers lost Jagr, Avery, Straka and Shanny. That was the Renney's sentence. He kept the sinking ship afloat longer then it was worth, but Lundqvist mediocre season killed it totally. Replacement of the couple of midgets with Avery and Antropov was the shot in the arm that team needed much more than anything. The coach change didn't do any harm, but I don't think it was the primary reason for the team and its goalie improvement.
You have many valid points there.

But now, I'm REALLY done with this subject.

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Old
03-17-2009, 11:38 AM
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94...

then the question is, what's a good coach? Could another coach get more out of a roster? That's one of the toughest questions in professionals sports to answer. A great coach can overcome injuries and departure of player personnel, to an extent. I'm not directing this specifically to any coach, rather this is a generalization.

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03-17-2009, 11:49 AM
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ill always remember renney in a fond way for returning respectability to the rangers. the roster wasnt built very well to start this season so i cant expect much more then renney got out of the team. i hated seeing him go but at least we got a solid coach to replace him.

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03-17-2009, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
then the question is, what's a good coach? Could another coach get more out of a roster? That's one of the toughest questions in professionals sports to answer. A great coach can overcome injuries and departure of player personnel, to an extent. I'm not directing this specifically to any coach, rather this is a generalization.
The coach influence in baseball and esp. in football is mush greater than that in hockey. That is because, although preparation to the game is important, there is much less of the staged component in the process.
Good coach can get talented underperforming team going. Great coach can get it very far. Sometimes coaching change could get the talented team that performs well to the next level. Rangers were nothing like that. Rangers were mediocre overachievers. There is very little or nothing that could help mediocrity. The only system they could use is trap or some other kind of defensive hockey. This way you could capitalize on the opponent mistakes, since your own game is not so good.
Sather knew he screwed up and to his credit wanted to undo his errors. He prepared (unlike, say, MTL) the coach replacement in order to divert attention from his effort. This way the media and fans will credit the improvement to the new guy, while Sather admission of previous mistakes by reversing what he has done would go practically unnoticed. The nuts like coach with incredible new approach was widely advertised, while Sather quietly got Avery back as well as another weak Jagr's clone in Antropov. He would love get Jagr himself back if he could. Morris finally replaced Tyutin. Redden failed to do it, Wade happened to be a terribly expensive Marek Malik upgrade. Now when Dawes is gone no one should any longer feel sorry for the guy and try to get him going. The new coach is not a coach in the sense he will not teach anybody. That is because he is a slave driver. He will advise the players, force them if needed, but there will be no projects. Don't get your hopes about prospects high. Torts is no Renney, he will demand a finished product, or he will not play it.
So, was the coach change necessary? Yes, bu not absolutely. Did we have to get to it? Hell, no. We just must eat Sather's boo-boo.

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03-17-2009, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
I don't think Renney ever lost his team. Neither did Carbonnau or Terrien among other firings of late. All the three have exhausted the roster abilities after big player losses. Habs lost Streit and later Lang and went downhill after plus got goalie failure. They didn't do much to change the roster, except for getting Scheider and may be going down still. Pitt lost Malone and Armstrong and had hard time to recover after that the entire season. Addition of Kunitz and Guerin got them going. Rangers lost Jagr, Avery, Straka and Shanny. That was the Renney's sentence. He kept the sinking ship afloat longer then it was worth, but Lundqvist mediocre season killed it totally. Replacement of the couple of midgets with Avery and Antropov was the shot in the arm that team needed much more than anything. The coach change didn't do any harm, but I don't think it was the primary reason for the team and its goalie improvement.
I think he definately lost them during the year. I can't pinpoint when it started, but to me, it was quite clear what was happening during that Dallas game. They mailed the effort in after a supposed tough practice and showed Renney who was really in charge.

Not only that, but they also seemed to stop responding to his shouts of encouragement on the bench. In fact, they seemed to just plain ignore him. Can't count the number of times MSG showed him yelling on the bench towards players in front of him, and they wouldn't acknowledge him in any way.

In the end, I think the team got bored with his style of play. The lowest denominator approach to offense grows stale when you're losing and as boring as it was to watch, it probably just as boring to play.

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