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Canucks sign free agent forward Eric Walsky

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Old
03-24-2009, 01:40 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
yea I did... not a new article... I read it back then as well... like I said, when he first left, he didn't say anything about his situation which came out later and created a lot of incorrect information on why he left.
I would say that that is the EXACT definition of "Flaky"

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03-24-2009, 01:42 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Zorbane View Post
I put a lot of the blame on the Canucks having Fedor Fedorov on the Moose Roster. He was/is the epitome of a poor team player...and being the only other Russian on the team who else is Koltsov going to bond with/look up to?

That's one reason why having Keane on the Moose is such a valuable asset. He's teaching the kids about what it takes to be an NHL player...hard work, perseverance etc....

Basically the opposite of Fed Fed.
A good part of the responsibility should be placed on Stan Smyl. As much as it pains me to say it (as he was one of my favorites - as a player - in a Canuck uniform) his stint as a coach of the Moose was a disaster. He was given that job due to nepotism more than ability (kind of like how the Canucks used to give out scouting positions to former players).

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03-24-2009, 01:42 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
A good part of the responsibility should be placed on Stan Smyl. As much as it pains me to say it (as he was one of my favorites - as a player - in a Canuck uniform) his stint as a coach of the Moose was a disaster. He was given that job due to nepotism more than ability (kind of like how the Canucks used to give out scouting positions to former players).
Smyl wasn't the coach that season, I believe it was Carlyle.

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03-24-2009, 01:44 PM
  #179
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I would say that that is the EXACT definition of "Flaky"
what is? that you become distracted and feel uncomfortable when you're on the other side of the world, when your mother is sick and can't even see her at the time?

that's not flaky at all! he had a perfectly good reason for leaving.

maybe you don't care if you were in that situation... I know that I would leave the moment I heard the news and wouldn't want to talk about it with the media in a hockey mad environment if I was in that situation... even in the article you posted, Tambellini said that he didn't want to release any info on the situation at the time either on why he left... could it be possible that Koltsov just didn't want to publicize such a private situation and asked Tambellini not to talk about it.

you call it flaky - I call it being human!

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03-24-2009, 01:49 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
Smyl wasn't the coach that season, I believe it was Carlyle.
He did coach him in the 03-04 season. But yes when Koltsov left Carlyle was in charge (04-05)

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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
A good part of the responsibility should be placed on Stan Smyl. As much as it pains me to say it (as he was one of my favorites - as a player - in a Canuck uniform) his stint as a coach of the Moose was a disaster. He was given that job due to nepotism more than ability (kind of like how the Canucks used to give out scouting positions to former players).
Agreed...

Regardless of who the coach and players were at the time, the Canucks totally mismanaged Koltsov and let him slip through their fingers.

I'm sure we can find other examples of this with other Canuck "busts".

Hopefully with Gillis and his emphasis on player development it won't happen anymore!

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03-24-2009, 01:52 PM
  #181
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This discussion is way off topic.

In terms of Walsky, it would appear that the only posters who have actually seen him play seem to think he has some potential. I support this signing completely, especially taking Gillis' background as an extremely successful agent into consideration.

During his first press conference, he made it clear that the scouting and development of players in this organization was poor. He promised to address the issue.

Regardless of what you think of his performance at the draft table last summer, I feel we owe it to him to support the signing and give Walsky and the Canucks 2008 draft class a little time to develop.

As far as I'm concerned, Gillis has done a pretty admirable job thus far. And with all due respect to those of you who publicly doubt him, I trust his ability to judge talent and potential far more that any of the posters on this board (that is assuming that Ken Holland does not post here ).

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03-24-2009, 01:56 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
what is? that you become distracted and feel uncomfortable when you're on the other side of the world, when your mother is sick and can't even see her at the time?

that's not flaky at all! he had a perfectly good reason for leaving.
I never said once he never had a good reason for leaving. Leaving without telling anyone, while on a hockey team, in the middle of the season, is FLAKY.

Quote:
maybe you don't care if you were in that situation... I know that I would leave the moment I heard the news and wouldn't want to talk about it with the media in a hockey mad environment if I was in that situation... even in the article you posted, Tambellini said that he didn't want to release any info on the situation at the time either on why he left... could it be possible that Koltsov just didn't want to publicize such a private situation and asked Tambellini not to talk about it.

you call it flaky - I call it being human!
When your team has no idea whats happened, you've skipped flights completely, won't talk to anyone on the club, don't tell me its "being human". In fact, I can't think of another situation where a player has up and left a team or purposefully missed flights without even one word of explanation to his teammates or his team.

We're probably going to have to agree to disagree on this one. If any of the Canucks just decided to up and leave tomorrow, without so much as a warning to any of his team mates or coaching staff, I'm sure you'd be singing a different tune.

Sick parents or not, the phone is 3 steps away. You don't just start missing team flights and then just go back to Russia and sign a contract with another team.

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03-24-2009, 01:59 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
Smyl wasn't the coach that season, I believe it was Carlyle.
He was coach during Koltsov's important rookie year (as well as when Fedor was there). Just my opinion, but the damage was done.

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03-24-2009, 02:16 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
didnt read the article did you?

edit: If he had simply stated "My mother is sick, I need to return to Russia", I can't imagine ONE member of the Moose organization thinking poorly of the situation. But he skipped flights, quit on the team. That to me, is unacceptable. It pissed off the team, as then Captain, Nolan Baumgartner stated:

"Players knew Koltsov was unhappy, but given the success the Moose have had this year, most were surprised that he pulled the plug.

"We don't want to have somebody that doesn't want to be a part of something good and something where we can go a long way this year and he could of been a big part of it," Moose captain Nolan Baumgartner said. "He was having a good year and it's too bad that he's decided to do this. It might be for the best. It's better off not to have him (here)." "
is this actually a quote from the article? sheesh, grammer much? what ever happened to the art of copy editing?


anyways, anyone know, Where's Walsky?

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03-24-2009, 02:28 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by alternate View Post
is this actually a quote from the article? sheesh, grammer much? what ever happened to the art of copy editing?
It's a quote of a Nolan Baumgartner quote. I'm no journalist, but I'd have thought they had no option in terms of altering the grammar (i.e. it is what it is).

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03-24-2009, 02:46 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by alternate View Post
is this actually a quote from the article? sheesh, grammer much? what ever happened to the art of copy editing?


anyways, anyone know, Where's Walsky?
Changing someone's direct quote, no matter how inarticulate or grammatically incorrect, is yellow journalism.

Please take your grammar policing somewhere else.

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03-24-2009, 02:55 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
Changing someone's direct quote, no matter how inarticulate or grammatically incorrect, is yellow journalism.

Please take your grammar policing somewhere else.
I think this was more a case of poor editing than anything else... Baumer isn't exactly new to the english language... he's much more likely to have said could *have* been, then could *of* been when giving that quote.

and even if he wasn't - isn't the correct thing to do would be to write it as such: "could [have] been" as I've read that in many places in the past?

having said that, I still don't think that Baumer would have said it the way it was written... my guess is that it was just poor editing.

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03-24-2009, 03:15 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by BrockH View Post
It's a quote of a Nolan Baumgartner quote. I'm no journalist, but I'd have thought they had no option in terms of altering the grammar (i.e. it is what it is).
Quote:
Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
Changing someone's direct quote, no matter how inarticulate or grammatically incorrect, is yellow journalism.

Please take your grammar policing somewhere else.
no, you're both incorrect. you can't change a quote, but the general rule of thumb is you'll clean it up to let the interviewee come off in the best light, unless the grammatical errors etc add to the interviewee's personality (which I'd argue this one doesn't). if I was writing that article, I would have used "have" instead of "of" and so would every editor I've worked with.

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03-24-2009, 03:17 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by alternate View Post
no, you're both incorrect. you can't change a quote, but the general rule of thumb is you'll clean it up to let the interviewee come off in the best light, unless the grammatical errors etc add to the interviewee's personality (which I'd argue this one doesn't). if I was writing that article, I would have used "have" instead of "of" and so would every editor I've worked with.
Fair enough. Like the disclaimer said, I'm no journalist.

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03-24-2009, 03:40 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by alternate View Post
no, you're both incorrect. you can't change a quote, but the general rule of thumb is you'll clean it up to let the interviewee come off in the best light, unless the grammatical errors etc add to the interviewee's personality (which I'd argue this one doesn't). if I was writing that article, I would have used "have" instead of "of" and so would every editor I've worked with.
http://www.ajr.org/Article.asp?id=1340

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03-24-2009, 04:34 PM
  #191
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great article. thanks for posting it.

I've cherry picked some sections that support my side of the article. but it is a well-balanced read and I'd recommend anyone with an interest in this kind of stuff to click the link.

Quote:
Palm Beach Post Managing Editor Tom O'Hara: "They think that what is between those quote marks is what the person quoted said. But you know and I know and everyone knows that if the county commission chair says, 'I'm gonna vote against this,' it's going to show up in the paper as, 'I'm going to vote against this.' I think that readers have no problem with that and, in fact, expect their newspaper to make that kind of change in a quote."
Quote:
Reporters say the decision to clean up a quote is rooted in fairness to the reader and the source. "If reporters relied on transcripts, most of the people they quote would appear blundering and inarticulate," says New York Times reporter Matthew L. Wald. "And the point of quoting someone is generally not to make the person look silly. The solution is generally to put quote marks around the words that the speaker squeezed out in good English."

Often the amount of clean-up depends on the savvy of the source. "Generally, I fix quotes for grammar, especially with average, ordinary people," says Ellyn Ferguson, a regional reporter for Gannett News Service. "I am doing the interview to get information from them, not make them look like idiots."
Quote:
Athletes are also in the public eye, and Miami Herald sportswriter Linda Robertson doesn't see anything wrong with giving them a break when it comes to usage. Ballplayers are prone to poor English, particularly after a game, she says.

"You will make the subject and verb agree so Joe Quarterback won't sound like a rube, but you won't change what he is saying," she says. "People appreciate that because most of us aren't public speakers. These aren't people who have taken classes at Toastmasters."
Quote:
One last thing. No quotes were changed for this story. But when the journalists were interviewed about changing quotations, nearly every one of them ended their interviews the same way, the way the Miami Herald's Miller did.

"If I screwed up," Miller said of his own quotes, "fix it." l

There is definitely a legit debate on this topic. But end of the day, especially in a situation where you are a beat writer interviewing someone you'll probably be interviewing again in the near future, you want to help the brother out. why make Baumer look like a meat-head hockey player when its easy to fix.

but just for the record, I wasn't being the "grammer police". I could care less about someone's grammer on a message board--including my own. I was actually lamenting the decline in quality of print media. sure, there is debate over whether the quote should have been cleaned up, but bottom line imo, leaving it as was made Baumer look bad AND made the writer and editor look imcompetent.


okay, but seriously, does ANYBODY know if Walsky has reported to Manitoba yet and when he'll start playing?

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03-24-2009, 04:38 PM
  #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
I think this was more a case of poor editing than anything else... Baumer isn't exactly new to the english language... he's much more likely to have said could *have* been, then could *of* been when giving that quote.

and even if he wasn't - isn't the correct thing to do would be to write it as such: "could [have] been" as I've read that in many places in the past?

having said that, I still don't think that Baumer would have said it the way it was written... my guess is that it was just poor editing.
Speaking colloquially, Baumgartner likely used a contraction and said "he could've been" so you're right, it's probably poor editing

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03-24-2009, 04:41 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by alternate View Post
but just for the record, I wasn't being the "grammer police". I could care less about someone's grammer on a message board--including my own.
I hope you weren't being the grammar police because I believe the phrase you were going for is "I could NOT care less..." (or "I couldN'T care less...") not "I could care less..."

just sayin'.

Unless of course you did mean to imply that there is a possibility of you caring less at some point in the future, and, thus, meaning you do care at least somewhat for being the grammar police at this present time.

Just a good natured ribbing.


Last edited by tantalum: 03-24-2009 at 04:48 PM.
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03-24-2009, 04:45 PM
  #194
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Speaking colloquially, Baumgartner likely used a contraction and said "he could've been" so you're right, it's probably poor editing
Exactly, I don't see how anyone can, in the course of an interview, possibly believe that someone is actually saying the two words "could of" on purpose, rather than "could've". In other words the reporter is obviously the one at fault.

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03-24-2009, 04:47 PM
  #195
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This thread is off the rails.

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03-24-2009, 06:44 PM
  #196
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Walsky

I was excited to see Eric get signed. I played with him growing up through the years and hated him cause he was so fast and has crazy stick handling ability. His highschool coach at East High said he easily has the best stick handling ability in Alaska and that includes our pro teams. That is big compliment esp for a 16 year old. His time here at UAA were rough, when he chose to leave we all supported him and he excelled in a very talented CC team. He is a solid guy, a good hockey player and a no BS assessment from me is that he will definately be playing on a NHL roster in the future, whether it be yours or someone elses. Great pickup.

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03-24-2009, 06:48 PM
  #197
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I was excited to see Eric get signed. I played with him growing up through the years and hated him cause he was so fast and has crazy stick handling ability. His highschool coach at East High said he easily has the best stick handling ability in Alaska and that includes our pro teams. That is big compliment esp for a 16 year old. His time here at UAA were rough, when he chose to leave we all supported him and he excelled in a very talented CC team. He is a solid guy, a good hockey player and a no BS assessment from me is that he will definately be playing on a NHL roster in the future, whether it be yours or someone elses. Great pickup.
Just wondering if you could answer a few questions for us here in Vancouver, seeing as you are from Alaska-
Does he have ties to Alaska still?-family, friends, etc

Do you think that Vancouver being the closest proximity to Vancouver swayed Walsky at all?

If you can answer, thanks!

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03-24-2009, 06:56 PM
  #198
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I'm not sure how it's a moneyball move. I'm not saying it's doomed to failure, but wasn't a large principle behind moneyball about drafting players based on statistics rather than traditional scouting techniques? Seems to me Sauve is a choice that goes against the statistical probabilities (if we're hoping for a top 4 d-man).
That's partially true - it was mainly about using DIFFERENT statistics (on base percentage) than what was traditionally used but its also about finding players that don't fit the traditional profile. Anyway, my take on it.

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03-24-2009, 06:57 PM
  #199
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This thread is off the rails.
I honestly checked to see if I was in the OT thread.

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03-24-2009, 07:09 PM
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Ultimately, a 'moneyball' pick is seeing value where others don't, its going against the consensus, its picking up players for a song. Sauve somewhat fits that description - ranked high initially then consensus was that he wasn't as good as expected, and Canucks picked up in the late 2nd round a player who was initially thought of as a 1st round pick. See attached article:

http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...-insights.aspx

"Well, Moneyball is about how the Oakland A's, on a low budget, win so many baseball games. The way they've done it is by finding value in players that other people have overlooked. And the way they do that is actually rather complicated. They've challenged the traditional measures, asking if they really are a good way to measure what a particular guy brings to a team and how much he contributes to winning. Believe it or not, the answer in most cases is "no" -- traditional measures are not very accurate. It turns out that you can find much better ways to measure value, if you approach the game unconventionally. And once you've done that, you can find value that other people haven't."

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