HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Is it a fair package to land Lecavalier IYO?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-21-2009, 01:29 PM
  #76
Thinkbig
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,366
vCash: 500
Can the mods merge all idiocies related to Lecavalier in one thread?

Thinkbig is offline  
Old
03-21-2009, 01:30 PM
  #77
Gary320
Moderator
 
Gary320's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 13,927
vCash: 500
If we ever do get Mr. Lecavalier, I've got a huge feeling he's not going to be that great here, and it won't be long before everyone craps on him and who ever the GM is for trading so many people for Vincent.

But wtv, one guy is the key to our cup I guess?

Gary320 is offline  
Old
03-21-2009, 01:32 PM
  #78
Kriss E
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 25,036
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Price4Prez View Post
To Tampa:


A.Kostitsyn
S.Kostitsyn
Higgins
OByrne
1st pick

To Montreal:

Lecavalier
This means our team would consist off Lecavalier/Plekanec/Latendresse/Lapierre/Laraque/MaxPac/D'Ago/Metropolit. Those would be the only forwards we still have, considering we'd resign Plekanec/D'Ago seeing as they're RFAs.

On D, We'd have Markov/Hamrlik/Gorges signed.

Giving up 4 players that are likely going to regulars on our team next season would just be stupid. It wouldn't make our team better at all.
Trading A.Kost would be a huge mistake.

Kriss E is offline  
Old
03-21-2009, 01:36 PM
  #79
PK76
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,050
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cat View Post
Looks like another theodore on our hands, I hope we don't have to watch this unfold for 4 or 5 years. I don't think the kid is going to cut it here with the pressure and all, maybe Tampa would be a good place for him.
Price didn't win the Vezina and Hart trophies though...


PK76 is online now  
Old
03-21-2009, 01:38 PM
  #80
Max et Guillaume
Registered User
 
Max et Guillaume's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 986
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
yep free agents dont sign here because of posts on HF boards
No, because the OP's incredibly stupid post represents what 98% of people on RDS talkback think, what LaPresse thinks, etc... Fortunately for us, HF still has a majority of lucid fans...

Max et Guillaume is offline  
Old
03-21-2009, 01:38 PM
  #81
Pr3Va1L
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 626
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
For starter, they don't need Halak. Mike Smith is an excellent goaltender as his 2.62 GAA and .917 Sv% playing on a bottom feeder team. Compare that to Price's 2.83 GAA and .904 Sv% and Halak's 2.87 GAA and .915 Sv% and you have the picture.

Remember that if they trade Lecavalier, they'll want to take less salary than they give up as it would be the only reason for them to trade Vinny to start with. So the proposals involving Markov ($5.75M) and a bunch of other NHL players won't do it or they'll be in the same boat. What they'll want to do is to buy time until the economy turns around, a year or two.

I'd say the Kostitsyn brothers, a top prospect on defense like Weber, Subban or McDonagh, and a couple of picks including a first rounder should do the trick.

Exactly.

If I'm TB, it starts with either Markov, Price or the K brothers...

Pr3Va1L is offline  
Old
03-21-2009, 01:45 PM
  #82
Hermamoud
Registered User
 
Hermamoud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Country: Vietnam
Posts: 2,119
vCash: 500
Tampa has a boatload of goalies in their system already with Riku Helenius, Karri Ramo and probably their future franchise goalie in Dustin Tokarski. Why would they need another one?

Like it's the new trend in this board to put Lecavalier trade proposals:

Dandenault, Bouillon, Brisebois, Glumac and a choice between McDonough and McDonaugh for Lecavalier.

Now THAT's a realistic proposition (I even think that's overpaying too much)

Hermamoud is offline  
Old
03-21-2009, 01:45 PM
  #83
MTL-rules
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,314
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
This means our team would consist off Lecavalier/Plekanec/Latendresse/Lapierre/Laraque/MaxPac/D'Ago/Metropolit. Those would be the only forwards we still have, considering we'd resign Plekanec/D'Ago seeing as they're RFAs.

On D, We'd have Markov/Hamrlik/Gorges signed.

Giving up 4 players that are likely going to regulars on our team next season would just be stupid. It wouldn't make our team better at all.
Trading A.Kost would be a huge mistake.
For Vinny? Hell no...

You know that there's such thing as Free agents that this team can sign?

Oh my god, SJ traded 3 regulars to get Thornton... they couldn't survive after that, couldn't they?

We can afford the lost of the bros and Pleks or Higgins... don't worry... and it's not like they're giving us the cup right now...

MTL-rules is online now  
Old
03-21-2009, 01:46 PM
  #84
THE HOFF
Registered User
 
THE HOFF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,182
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalsix View Post
Still WAAAY to early to call him a bust. Need to give him more time to mature. For sure Gainey made the mistake of anointing him the starter. We should have gotten a veteran to play with Halak and sent Price to the AHL for a couple of years. Or at the very least gotten a veteran backup to mentor him. In any case, way to early to say, could just be a sophomore slump (+ injury recovery) with all of the drama that has plagued the team this year. Also it's doesn't help that the defense blows.
while I agree with that part, I think when you are 21 and you want to become a star player in the league , you have to be in the right mindset even at this age. They praise him and describe his talent as one of the most formidable things in modern hockey , but when he plays like crap for attitude related issues ....he's just being young. A lack of consistency is expected form a young goalie, but a childish retarded hill billy mentally fragile attitude was always and will always be a problem. He got cut from the WJC cuz he had attitude related problems ... last year he crumbled in the playoffs and gained 30 pounds of baby fat prior to that. When you don't have the work ethic to match your talent or potential , you won't become a star player in the NHL.

What amazes me the most ; hypocrite fans and their way to point out how kovy never worked and relied on his potential and all that crap. Then they turn arround and describe price as the next Martin Brodeur. Wake up. If there are no dramatic changes in his attitude right know, the only way price could be playing at 36 years of age is if he's fat enough to fill up the whole net.


Last edited by THE HOFF: 03-21-2009 at 01:53 PM.
THE HOFF is offline  
Old
03-21-2009, 01:46 PM
  #85
Ozymandias
#firetherrien
 
Ozymandias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hockey Mecca
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,438
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
Halak + S.Kostitsyn + Higgins + Ben Maxwell + OByrne or Gorges

Tanguay Lecavalier A.Kost

MaxPac Plekanec Perezhogin

Latendresse Lapierre Dagostini

Laraque Chipchura Stewart
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dripper View Post
You're not getting Lecavalier without giving one our two of your best prospects..

Your proposal sends pretty much all of our underachievers to TB for a franchise center.

IMO, you have to include a center (Plekanec), a highly toughted prospect (Pacioretty or Subban), 2 NHL player (Latendresse, D'Agostini, Higgins, one of the bro, or Gorges) an a 1st round pick. And that's a minimum..

Plekanec, Subban, AKost, SKost, 1st pick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey View Post
Threadstarter was an example of underpayment, You are an example of overpayment IMO

EDIT: in the eyes of TB fans it's probably not underpayment, but I still would not make this move

Exactly. While I find the overpayment, a very strong overpayment, I find the other is just a bit lacking.

If you are trading both Kosty bros, nix Subban out of there. I think Pleks would be a prerequisite in any trade for a top center, as the other team would want someone to replace the center. So that's a starting point. Now, AKost and Pleks alone are of pretty good value.

So I would offer something like :

Pleks, AKost, Weber, 1st pick.

That seems a good starting ground.

But they could want reliable dmen, and that's where it gets tricky.

Ozymandias is offline  
Old
03-21-2009, 01:49 PM
  #86
tahi0009
Registered User
 
tahi0009's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Ottawa,ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 345
vCash: 500
Whats wrong with you Habs fans. Have you ever heard of a sophmore jinx? look 5-10 years from now and Carey Price will prob. be a better goalie than Halak.

tahi0009 is offline  
Old
03-21-2009, 01:55 PM
  #87
TheCH*
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,060
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat View Post
I think they would

a young goalie with an endless amount of talent...huge potential

why wouldn't Bruins take him???
Talent is only 10% of goaltending. The other 90% Price fails at.

TheCH* is offline  
Old
03-21-2009, 02:06 PM
  #88
Ozymandias
#firetherrien
 
Ozymandias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hockey Mecca
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,438
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
To replace Lecavalier, they gonna first require a good center: Plekanec

Then, we might try to give them our headcases: Higgins, A.Kost and S.Kost

They gonna ask for a cheap D-Man: Gorges

They gonna ask for a good youngster: Subban

+ to crown it all: a 1st round draft pick.

They might ask for Halak. Habs should then ask for Smith.

TB knows how badly we want Lecavalier

SO:

Plekanec - Higgins - A.Kost - S.Kost - Gorges - Subban + 1st round pick (and maybe Halak)

FOR

Lecavalier (and maybe Smith)

I am sure other teams are willing to give a lot (not as much as the Habs) to get him.

I would not want to trade Halak as long as I am not sure that Price can do the job.

Holy overpayment Batman!!!!

Thank god you aren't the GM of the Habs.

First off, Tampa HAS financial problems, they might be afloat at the moment, but are very close to a dire situation. Pleks, Higgins and Akost altogether are gonna cost them way more than Lecavalier salary wise.

What Tampa would be looking for is RFAs that don't cost much, maybe include one or two who already make several millions. They would also be looking for better defensemen. The one true thing you've actually nailed is that Tampa would probably want someone to replace Lecavalier at center. So like I said before, Plekanec is the starting point. If you include AKost, with Plekanec, that already ramps up their salary base, and as a trade, you've already got a good chunk of value going their way. Also, while Tampa must be looking for Dmen, they also need added depth up front, so they both take care of that.

Tampa already knows they can't get Markov, so I think that the only way another team could pry him would be to offer what we can't offer. But which team is gonna trade their most important D for Lecavalier? I don't think they would want Hammer back, but it would still be good to thread the waters on that.

Also, if Tampa is considering trading him, they would want to do it before July 1st, because then, if they do want to trade him, their trading power goes way down.

But if we aren't gonna include Markov, they might stick to the fact they want Dmen, and then If you trade Subban and Gorges in the package, the Habs would be overpaying, with Pleks, Akost, Subban and Gorges. That's why I think it came down in the rumors to Pleks, Higgins, Subban, Gorges and a 1st, as that would logically be balancing out switching Higgins for Akost because of the added value of Subban.

Still, anything anywhere near what you proposed is way too much. 5 NHL players, plus one of our most hyped up prospect (value-wise) and our 1st pick to boot. Way too much.

Ozymandias is offline  
Old
03-21-2009, 02:20 PM
  #89
Kriss E
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 25,036
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
For Vinny? Hell no...

You know that there's such thing as Free agents that this team can sign?

Oh my god, SJ traded 3 regulars to get Thornton... they couldn't survive after that, couldn't they?

We can afford the lost of the bros and Pleks or Higgins... don't worry... and it's not like they're giving us the cup right now...
Yes, but I don't want BG to have to sign 10 Free Agents. You want us to do like TB???..As we can see, that was a great idea.

Thornton was traded for Wayne Primeau, Marco Sturm and Brad Stuart. He was also a more productive player than Lecavalier when he got traded, although it's still pretty similar.

If you told me A.Kost for Vinny, sure. But you said, A.Kost (possible 1st line winger), Plek (our current 1st line Center), S.Kost (a lot of offensive upside, could make a strong duo with his bro if he matures, top6) and O'Byrne (top4 potential) on top of a 1st rounder.

Those are important wholes to fill.

Also, when SJ traded for Thornton, they still have a respectable team after. Joe turned Cheechoo into a 56Goal Scorer, I don't think Vinny will do that with any of our players. They kept Marleau, had Ekman that had a decent season, Michalek, Bernier.
On top of having some pretty good Ds with Priessing, Hannah, Erhoff..
The year after, they had some interesting prospects in Carle, Vlasic and Pavelski, joining Clowe and Michalek. They made a few signings by getting Grier, Guerin..

They still had a respectable team, they didn't have to sign a big number of Free Agents.
Point is, we'd trade 4roster players for 1, while only having 7 signed Forwards(including S.Kost/Maxwell). That's a lot of FA signings and quite frankly, I don't think it would be such a good idea to change half our line up like TB did this year.
Other than MaxPac and D'Ago, we don't have interesting forward prospects and we can't say that either will become 1st liners. A.Kost is the only one that has the potential to be a top3.

Kriss E is offline  
Old
03-21-2009, 03:11 PM
  #90
SuperUnknown
Registered User
 
SuperUnknown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,532
vCash: 500
I think a package that could interest both teams would be:

To Tampa Bay: A Kost, S Kost, Chipchura and either Subban or a 1st.
To Montreal: Lecavalier

We trade the brothers who've had their share of problems, but they're very good players and the Lightning could use them as top talent. They get a good prospect (Chipchura) and a very good talent in Subban (or a first).

SuperUnknown is offline  
Old
03-21-2009, 03:14 PM
  #91
Beakermania*
 
Beakermania*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kingston or Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,964
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dripper View Post
You're not getting Lecavalier
This was all that needed to be said.

Can we end this pipe dream??

Beakermania* is offline  
Old
03-21-2009, 03:21 PM
  #92
NewHabsEra*
 
NewHabsEra*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,695
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
This means our team would consist off Lecavalier/Plekanec/Latendresse/Lapierre/Laraque/MaxPac/D'Ago/Metropolit. Those would be the only forwards we still have, considering we'd resign Plekanec/D'Ago seeing as they're RFAs.

On D, We'd have Markov/Hamrlik/Gorges signed.

Giving up 4 players that are likely going to regulars on our team next season would just be stupid. It wouldn't make our team better at all.
Trading A.Kost would be a huge mistake.
exactly.. People are desapointed, the team hasnt played good this year, way too inconsistent, way too passive and some kids we expected to step up didnt.. But like I said, and Danny Dubé said, when your team doesnt have the vets to push these kids at another level, its hard to really evaluate them..

If this team gets on the right track, make the playoffs and do well in playoffs, just watch the value of our kids grow up..

Trading A.Kost would be a huge mistake just like trading Price.. A.Kost is by far the most skilled kid we have, he has the potential to score 40, give him some real linamates to play with, kick Kovy out from this team and just watch the kid blossom! Price is 21 years old, gave some bad goals this years and tend to give up some nights but this is not different from the attitude this team has as a whole, this team has no sprit, no soul, no identity and our guys have been by far the worst team in the league in the second half in front of their goaltenders allowing over 40 shots every nights and most of them were quality shots.. Price has all the package to become an all star, some doubt about him mentally, but you have to be completely dumb to give up on a guy like this.. He will learn and get better and I even think he could make a difference this year when Gainey gives him the ok.. So, some of you risk to be a little bit embarassed if the kid has strong playoffs..

As for my original package, it will be interesting to come back on this thread this summer since I dont think we will need to sacrifice our best kids to land Lecavalier for the reasons I explained in this thread..

"I know that there will be very few teams interested in Lecavalier if he is avalaible, the reason is simple, DGs are effraid of the big long term contracts, the recession will make the salary cap drop for sure in 2 years from now and they dont know at what point.. Also when you give big long term money to a player there is a risk, a risk that your player go through some serious injuries (Lecavalier had shoulder injury earlier in the season, Rick Dipietro is another good exemple).. Also, under a cap era, you have to be sure to have some good depth to support your high paid leaders, otherwise, it gives the kind of result Tampa get right now.. There are very few teams in our position to package some cheap quality kids too.. Its well known that the Habs have been drafing some futur NHLers over the years, HF had the Habs always among their top 5 in the last few years.. Alot of people were wondering why, cause we hadnt alot of futur all stars in the making but rather a solid pool of NHL material kids.. What I mean is that not alot of teams can afford to let 2-3 solid quality kids go without affecting their depth.. Add the fact that Tampa have some incredible financial issue, very few quality prospects in the system to eventually support their stars, no playoffs for the next 3 years even if they keep their big guys.. They will have to trade both Lecavalier and St-Louis and get young cheap players in return.."

Most of the teams that could afford a such contract are already engaged financially with other players (Wings, Flyers.. to name few..) and the teams having a good pool of young players dont have the money to take a such risk financilly.. (Buffalo coming to my mind) So it reduces seriously the number of teams really interested if a guy like Lecavaler becomes avalaible.. On the other side, Tampa just cant afford keeping their 2 stars for the reasons we all know.. So the stars are aligned.. and I seriously think we wont have to sacrifice guys like Subban, Price, A.Kost..


Last edited by NewHabsEra*: 03-21-2009 at 03:43 PM.
NewHabsEra* is offline  
Old
03-21-2009, 03:30 PM
  #93
Habsterix*
@Habsterix
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,475
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
yep free agents dont sign here because of posts on HF boards
Forget Price, Kovalev, Kostitsyn, Higgins, Komisarek, Hamrlik, Latendresse, Brisebois... it's all HF Boards' fault!


Back on topic though, I really don't know how someone can say that trading Andrei Kostitsyn for Vincent Lecavalier would be a mistake...

Habsterix* is offline  
Old
03-21-2009, 03:32 PM
  #94
FerrisRox
Registered User
 
FerrisRox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,497
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
ramo is atrocious, Smith a bottom NHL stater..
You don't actually think that Halak would unseat Mike Smith as the starter in Tampa, do you?

Have you ever even watched Mike Smith play?

Your trade proposal is so incredibly bad I can't even respond to the original email because it's obvious that there's no point even discussing it with you because you are so far removed from the reality of the NHL.

FerrisRox is offline  
Old
03-21-2009, 03:32 PM
  #95
Hab Shark
Better call Saul
 
Hab Shark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Island of Alameda
Country: United States
Posts: 773
vCash: 500
The Habs will never get Lecavalier anyway. It would take someone close to Vinny's caliber and there's not many of those in this League.

Vinny wouldn't leave warm Florida and extremely low taxes for the heaviest taxed area of Canada and he's practically on the "Board of Trustees" with the new ownership, as he is their most marketable asset.

Hab Shark is offline  
Old
03-21-2009, 03:57 PM
  #96
TeamHabs
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 55
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
To replace Lecavalier, they gonna first require a good center: Plekanec

Then, we might try to give them our headcases: Higgins, A.Kost and S.Kost

They gonna ask for a cheap D-Man: Gorges

They gonna ask for a good youngster: Subban

+ to crown it all: a 1st round draft pick.

They might ask for Halak. Habs should then ask for Smith.

TB knows how badly we want Lecavalier

SO:

Plekanec - Higgins - A.Kost - S.Kost - Gorges - Subban + 1st round pick (and maybe Halak)

FOR

Lecavalier (and maybe Smith)

I am sure other teams are willing to give a lot (not as much as the Habs) to get him.

I would not want to trade Halak as long as I am not sure that Price can do the job.
No one player is worth 6 roster players (If Halak is indeed included).

TeamHabs is offline  
Old
03-21-2009, 04:22 PM
  #97
Kriss E
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 25,036
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Forget Price, Kovalev, Kostitsyn, Higgins, Komisarek, Hamrlik, Latendresse, Brisebois... it's all HF Boards' fault!


Back on topic though, I really don't know how someone can say that trading Andrei Kostitsyn for Vincent Lecavalier would be a mistake...
First off, I said trading A.Kost would be a huge mistake, as a general statement.
Trading A.Kost for Vinny heads up wouldn't.
Trading A.Kost, S.Kost, Higgins, Plek and O'Byrne/Gorges for Vinny is a bad trade, and that's why I said involving A.Kost at this point when he's the only true prospect we have that could reach 35-40G would be a mistake.

Look at how people react when we trade players that end up blossoming somewhere else. Ribeiro and Streit, we can also talk about Souray.
A.Kost is the only true offensive star prospect we have. I can just see him get traded and become a top star somewhere else.

I'm not saying trading him for Lecavalier would be bad, or Crosby, or Malkin, or Ovechkin, but to make him part of a huge package at this time would be a bad move imo.


Last edited by Kriss E: 03-21-2009 at 04:29 PM.
Kriss E is offline  
Old
03-21-2009, 04:59 PM
  #98
Habs10Habs
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Habs10Habs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 52,364
vCash: 50
Ok enough of this crap.

Habs10Habs is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:49 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.