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Old
05-19-2009, 09:47 PM
  #226
billsandsabres
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move up and get paajarvi-svensson! he's a sabres fan. yay!

http://www.nhl.com/ice/draftprospect...sort=finalRank

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05-19-2009, 10:37 PM
  #227
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Put me in the Kreider/Holland camp, but if Kadri slips, I'd be all over him.
i really like Holland too, but not at 13.

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05-19-2009, 11:03 PM
  #228
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I would punch Darcy in the face if he drafted Ryan Ellis.
I will hold him for ya!

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05-21-2009, 11:01 AM
  #229
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Culled from other sources, Kreider info.

http://www.eagletribune.com/archives...093000529.html

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=410722

http://www.wickedlocal.com/middleton...season-at-hand

Big, skilled, a bit physical.... I'm interested.

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05-21-2009, 04:06 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by HarriSateri View Post
I would punch Darcy in the face if he drafted Ryan Ellis.
I will go one step further and would punch Darcy in the face if he drafted another defenseman with our top pick.

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Old
05-21-2009, 04:24 PM
  #231
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I will go one step further and would punch Darcy in the face if he drafted another defenseman with our top pick.
Unless it's Hedman/Cowan or another projected top 5 guy. That guy + Myers sets up the defense for a long while.

If not, then yes, we better be drafting forwards.

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05-22-2009, 12:25 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by HarriSateri View Post
I would punch Darcy in the face if he drafted Ryan Ellis.
I would be OK with Darcy drafting Ellis as long as darcy traded one of the current D-men for a top 6 forward. you have to remember that Tyllinder and Lydman are off the books at the end of next season too.

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Old
05-23-2009, 08:51 AM
  #233
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I would be OK with Darcy drafting Ellis as long as darcy traded one of the current D-men for a top 6 forward. you have to remember that Tyllinder and Lydman are off the books at the end of next season too.
When you have the following defensemen on the farm/juniors/NCAA you really don't need to spend your only top 60 pick on another defenseman:

Puck Movers - Schleistel, Gragnani, Biega, Brennan, Persson, Buravchikov, Generous, Myers, Kostka, Southorn to name a few

Bangers - Weber, Fienhage

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Old
05-23-2009, 09:17 AM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Old Navy Goat View Post
When you have the following defensemen on the farm/juniors/NCAA you really don't need to spend your only top 60 pick on another defenseman:

Puck Movers - Schleistel, Gragnani, Biega, Brennan, Persson, Buravchikov, Generous, Myers, Kostka, Southorn to name a few

Bangers - Weber, Fienhage


Well, I question calling Generous, Kostka and probably Southorn as "puck movers" as I think the first two are more stay-at-homers and the latter is more of a 2-way but that's not the point.

I'm not necessarily advocating Ellis but though they have that type of defenseman in the system it doesn't appear that they have anyone of Ellis' ceiling. IF he is the far and away BEST talent when the Sabres pick then I can see the justification for drafting him. I know all the arguments about what the organization lacks but I firmly believe you never draft need when there is superior talent available.

Myers isn't really a comparable player and I don't think the rest of those guys are justification for passing on Ellis if they really like him. Beside, 1.) not all of those guys are going to develop into NHLers anyway and 2.) if they take Ellis, every D-prospect save Myers should be on the market.

Of course it's possible that Ellis goes before the Sabres pick or that Buffalo will end up liking a player more than Ellis, I'm just trying to say that I'm not really buying into the arguments against drafting him.

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Old
05-23-2009, 09:41 AM
  #235
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I would be happy if we drafted any of: Hedman/Cowen/Kulikov/Ekman-Larsson.
Other than those 4, I would like a forward especially if we could trade up and land a top 7 pick to get a guy like Schenn or MPS.

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Old
05-23-2009, 11:31 AM
  #236
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Well, I question calling Generous, Kostka and probably Southorn as "puck movers" as I think the first two are more stay-at-homers and the latter is more of a 2-way but that's not the point.

I'm not necessarily advocating Ellis but though they have that type of defenseman in the system it doesn't appear that they have anyone of Ellis' ceiling. IF he is the far and away BEST talent when the Sabres pick then I can see the justification for drafting him. I know all the arguments about what the organization lacks but I firmly believe you never draft need when there is superior talent available.

Myers isn't really a comparable player and I don't think the rest of those guys are justification for passing on Ellis if they really like him. Beside, 1.) not all of those guys are going to develop into NHLers anyway and 2.) if they take Ellis, every D-prospect save Myers should be on the market.

Of course it's possible that Ellis goes before the Sabres pick or that Buffalo will end up liking a player more than Ellis, I'm just trying to say that I'm not really buying into the arguments against drafting him.
Who's to say the guys in the system will not be better than Ellis. If you have been watching the MEM Cup you will see he can not win battles on the boards and gets pushed off of the puck with ease due to his lack of size. He tries to avoid hits at all costs and will direct his partner to retrieve pucks.

The Sabres will regret it if they take this guy with their first pick as he is a mid to late 3rd in my eyes.

This team could use help at the forward position with their first pick then maybe take another D man.

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Old
05-23-2009, 12:02 PM
  #237
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Who's to say the guys in the system will not be better than Ellis. If you have been watching the MEM Cup you will see he can not win battles on the boards and gets pushed off of the puck with ease due to his lack of size. He tries to avoid hits at all costs and will direct his partner to retrieve pucks.

The Sabres will regret it if they take this guy with their first pick as he is a mid to late 3rd in my eyes.

This team could use help at the forward position with their first pick then maybe take another D man.
Who's to say he isn't? I'm well aware of Ellis' failings but what you described could easily end up being Schiestel or Grags. The Sabres' transition game isn't exact a finished product and guaranteed offense from the back end is something that's needed. You're entitled to your opinion about Ellis so I won't argue it though you do rate him far below most other outlets.

I'm not necessarily advocating Ellis and frankly, I would like the Sabres to draft all centers in June. All I'm saying is that if the Sabres rate Ellis higher than any other available forward, they should take Ellis and sort it out.

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Old
05-23-2009, 12:06 PM
  #238
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well stated ruckus. this league is all about name recognition and ellis may have more of that then any of our current prospect defensemen (not named myers). I get the impression that he does all the little things right here and right now for an offensive defensemen, would his overall game improve in 5 years?

It may not be important depending on who is there. I would like to see the sabres go out and draft the most dangerious player (ellis has some danger with his elite hockey sense).

These are the guys i am wondering about

cowen- chris phillips. the hope pick, he won't be there but wouldn't it be nice?

kassin - morrow- its been a long time since we have drafted a player with manly characteristics. still i expect him to be gone.

Ferraro- finesse heatley. He is the aesthetic brand of sabre hockey. might not fill as many quarks as another player. I just think he is safe like stafford but with more able hands.

holland- rod the bod- a lot like myers, this kid needs to grow into his frame and get comfortable with his oppertunities. he will gain a lot of confidence from the draft. he has a thick warrior frame. His personality reminds me of tkachuk and i bet when he grows older he might develop a bit of an edge.
Kreider- uncertain-- haven't seen anything. though he looks like he could be a savard type player.
ellis- phil housley- I liked what i saw from ellis during the world juniors. Still it was a real stacked roster. i have him last basicly because it all depends on how much of an impact he could make on our defensive prospects.

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Old
05-23-2009, 12:16 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Ruckus007 View Post
Who's to say he isn't? I'm well aware of Ellis' failings but what you described could easily end up being Schiestel or Grags. The Sabres' transition game isn't exact a finished product and guaranteed offense from the back end is something that's needed. You're entitled to your opinion about Ellis so I won't argue it though you do rate him far below most other outlets.

I'm not necessarily advocating Ellis and frankly, I would like the Sabres to draft all centers in June. All I'm saying is that if the Sabres rate Ellis higher than any other available forward, they should take Ellis and sort it out.



If I understand your point correctly. You feel they should draft best available and the try and sort out needs afterwards.

When have they ever done that though?

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Old
05-23-2009, 12:21 PM
  #240
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Regardless of them staying, moving up, or moving down, by no means should or will the Sabres take Ryan Ellis or any other defenseman in the first round. There are plenty of good ones that will be available later in the draft.

Off the path, but Schiestel is going to endure a defensive awakening in Portland. Everyone knows he can skate and shoot it. Give him two solid years to make the defensive plays that the Sabres need to see from him. A similar process will continue with Gragnani.

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Old
05-23-2009, 12:33 PM
  #241
Ruckus007
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If I understand your point correctly. You feel they should draft best available and the try and sort out needs afterwards.

When have they ever done that though?
I didn't want to over-complicate things.

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Old
05-23-2009, 12:43 PM
  #242
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I didn't want to over-complicate things.
I'm confused now.

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Old
05-23-2009, 01:08 PM
  #243
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I'm confused now.

I didn't want to get off my point about Ellis and start rambling about Sabres philosophy. Though, to address your point, it wouldn't be that different from them taking forwards from 2000-2005 (save Ballard), especially in 2004 and 2005 when a need for top-tier defensemen was apparent.

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Old
05-24-2009, 05:55 PM
  #244
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Regardless of them staying, moving up, or moving down, by no means should or will the Sabres take Ryan Ellis or any other defenseman in the first round. There are plenty of good ones that will be available later in the draft.
Was just coming here to say that despite this opinion, Ellis is having a really good game today - and then bam! he slaps that goal in. He's made some really good defensive plays with his stick.

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Old
05-24-2009, 07:17 PM
  #245
joshjull
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Was just coming here to say that despite this opinion, Ellis is having a really good game today - and then bam! he slaps that goal in. He's made some really good defensive plays with his stick.

Plus he can grow a pretty interesting playoff beard.

But he is still a ginger and thats a strike against

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Old
05-24-2009, 10:57 PM
  #246
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Was just coming here to say that despite this opinion, Ellis is having a really good game today - and then bam! he slaps that goal in. He's made some really good defensive plays with his stick.
The unfortunate part about it is that there are a lot of D that could be around at our pick that I like, and not many forwards. I'm praying to god that somehow Schroeder falls and we can nab him, if not I'd like to trade down and get a guy like Kreider, Budish, Holland, or Caron.

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Old
05-24-2009, 11:05 PM
  #247
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Was just coming here to say that despite this opinion, Ellis is having a really good game today - and then bam! he slaps that goal in. He's made some really good defensive plays with his stick.
Imagine having (arguably) both the best offensive defenseman and the best all-around defenseman in junior hockey on our team. There's something to be said for that.

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Old
05-24-2009, 11:10 PM
  #248
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Imagine having (arguably) both the best offensive defenseman and the best all-around defenseman in junior hockey on our team. There's something to be said for that.

I suppose

But I can't get over how small Ellis is. He is listed at a very generous 5'10 (maybe that was with skates on) and 173lbs.

Looking around the league, size matters more and more. He would have to be that many steps above everyone else to makeup for his lack of size at the NHL level.

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Old
05-24-2009, 11:13 PM
  #249
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The unfortunate part about it is that there are a lot of D that could be around at our pick that I like, and not many forwards. I'm praying to god that somehow Schroeder falls and we can nab him, if not I'd like to trade down and get a guy like Kreider, Budish, Holland, or Caron.
Vanek Schroeder Stafford. sounds like a bright future

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Old
05-24-2009, 11:42 PM
  #250
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I suppose

But I can't get over how small Ellis is. He is listed at a very generous 5'10 (maybe that was with skates on) and 173lbs.

Looking around the league, size matters more and more. He would have to be that many steps above everyone else to makeup for his lack of size at the NHL level.
That's true. I can see Darcy being seduced by his skill though.

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