If you have faith in Slats, think Ekman and Zidlicky
Hey, I don't want to rain on our parade here. The fact is I believe that last 2 weeks trades were necessary. But in our excitement over who we got, let's remember that Slats had these guys in our system and he was wrong on them. Wrong big time. I don't think Zidlicky played here but he was in camp with us I believe. And Ekman DID play here. He gave up Ekman for Chad Wiseman. Holy friggin' *****. How do you do that? And still come to work and cash a paycheck? And while the Dunham for Zidlicky and Kloucek trade may (MAY!!) have been defensible initially, it surely isn't now. Zidlicky was our Zubov of this decade. Ekman was a defensive forward with offensive upside. Hell, he'd have been our second leading scorer this year. And for all the money spent on a PP QB, Zidlicky would have done it better (far better) than what we've had at a 1/4 the price.
What does all this mean? Maybe nothing. But it could mean that SLats has no clue as to how to evaluate young guys even when it's at its easiest (when they are in the damn system). And so to me, chances are we got far from what we could have gotten in the trades we made. Did we get nothing? I sure hope not. But the guy may have painted an old house but not changed anything else. And bought himself another few years.
Hey, I don't want to rain on our parade here. The fact is I believe that last 2 weeks trades were necessary. But in our excitement over who we got, let's remember that Slats had these guys in our system and he was wrong on them. Wrong big time. I don't think Zidlicky played here but he was in camp with us I believe. And Ekman DID play here. He gave up Ekman for Chad Wiseman. Holy friggin' *****. How do you do that? And still come to work and cash a paycheck? And while the Dunham for Zidlicky and Kloucek trade may (MAY!!) have been defensible initially, it surely isn't now. Zidlicky was our Zubov of this decade. Ekman was a defensive forward with offensive upside. Hell, he'd have been our second leading scorer this year. And for all the money spent on a PP QB, Zidlicky would have done it better (far better) than what we've had at a 1/4 the price.
What does all this mean? Maybe nothing. But it could mean that SLats has no clue as to how to evaluate young guys even when it's at its easiest (when they are in the damn system). And so to me, chances are we got far from what we could have gotten in the trades we made. Did we get nothing? I sure hope not. But the guy may have painted an old house but not changed anything else. And bought himself another few years.
york for poti is another one
doesnt matter though.. no one has faith in sather and its not only because zdlicky, ekman and york
So why bother being a fan then? There's always a dumb sport like football to watch or basketball.
That's a non-answer if ever there was one. For what it's worth, I had season tix. I watched all the games. I bet a professor the underdog Rangers would win a playoff series and sat thru the excruciating game 6 and won the bet with my Rangers and got an 'A'. That enthusiasm is beaten down and out. The team has sucked and been the worst kind of sucky. And the man doing the alleged rebuilding is the man who screwed up the last 4 years.
So why bother being a fan then? There's always a dumb sport like football to watch or basketball.
that is a pretty weak response
there is plenty of reason to feel down.. 7 years worth of it.. one reminder of sather is all i need and i suddenly feel disheartened despite all we've acquired..
We offered very little, so I can't complain about what we got in return. And in reality, the reasons that York, Zidlicky and Ekman aren't here have nothing to do with their respective abilities and whether or not Sather recognized their talent.
What we should be concerned about is how our new assets will ultimately be used. Just what will Sather be willing to part with for the 1st overall pick? Which disgruntled malcontent will be the next object of his desire? At what point will a panic move cost us something we covet?
Hey, I don't want to rain on our parade here. The fact is I believe that last 2 weeks trades were necessary. But in our excitement over who we got, let's remember that Slats had these guys in our system and he was wrong on them. Wrong big time. I don't think Zidlicky played here but he was in camp with us I believe. And Ekman DID play here. He gave up Ekman for Chad Wiseman. Holy friggin' *****. How do you do that? And still come to work and cash a paycheck? And while the Dunham for Zidlicky and Kloucek trade may (MAY!!) have been defensible initially, it surely isn't now. Zidlicky was our Zubov of this decade. Ekman was a defensive forward with offensive upside. Hell, he'd have been our second leading scorer this year. And for all the money spent on a PP QB, Zidlicky would have done it better (far better) than what we've had at a 1/4 the price.
What does all this mean? Maybe nothing. But it could mean that SLats has no clue as to how to evaluate young guys even when it's at its easiest (when they are in the damn system). And so to me, chances are we got far from what we could have gotten in the trades we made. Did we get nothing? I sure hope not. But the guy may have painted an old house but not changed anything else. And bought himself another few years.
First - Zidlicky was never in camp for us.
Secondly, I don't think you have alerted us to anything new. We all know what the trades were and how they've worked out. Ekman was expendable once Hlavac was signed. Mistake? Yeah, Hlavac didn't perform. But he did trade Ekman for a younger prospect in Wiseman, is that totally unacceptable? The Dunham deal seemed like a no brainer to me when you consider we had no capable starter when Richter went down.
The Poti/York deal is far worse, these deals don't make me hate the guy anymore than i do because of losing Yorkie.
We offered very little, so I can't complain about what we got in return. And in reality, the reasons that York, Zidlicky and Ekman aren't here have nothing to do with their respective abilities and whether or not Sather recognized their talent.
What we should be concerned about is how our new assets will ultimately be used. Just what will Sather be willing to part with for the 1st overall pick? Which disgruntled malcontent will be the next object of his desire? At what point will a panic move cost us something we covet?
Not sure I agree with anything in your first paragraph. It's arguable that we offered enough to get more. I think we did have what to offer and I think Slats shot his biggest wad way to early. I am also not sure what you mean with regards to York, Zidlicky and Ekman.
The other thing is whether others few our new assets as assets or mere filler. That is not something we will know for a while but the mixed reactions we have gotten is far from heartening. Were this organization in better shape, maybe I'd be inclined to be a glass is half full guy. I can't be that today. How can anyone logically be that way? I envy that mindset though, I really do. I don't blame you. I envy you.
Secondly, I don't think you have alerted us to anything new. We all know what the trades were and how they've worked out. Ekman was expendable once Hlavac was signed. Mistake? Yeah, Hlavac didn't perform. But he did trade Ekman for a younger prospect in Wiseman, is that totally unacceptable? The Dunham deal seemed like a no brainer to me when you consider we had no capable starter when Richter went down.
The Poti/York deal is far worse, these deals don't make me hate the guy anymore than i do because of losing Yorkie.
I don't think the fact about Zidlicky changes anything. We owned his rights and never gave it the best shot to evaluate him. If we penny pinched on him, for shame.
As for Wiseman, you say prospect, I see suspect. Big time. And I wasn't crazy about the Dunham deal when it went down. He was never an elite guy and we were not looking for a last piece to the puzzle at the time. We were fading and almost out.
So why bother being a fan then? There's always a dumb sport like football to watch or basketball.
Football is a great sport. Second only to Hockey.
I, personally, am looking forward to next year (if there is one) because watching kids go out on a nightly basis and put in some EFFORT is FAR more satisfying than watching a bunch of overpaid babies mailing it in.
I don't think the fact about Zidlicky changes anything. We owned his rights and never gave it the best shot to evaluate him. If we penny pinched on him, for shame.
As for Wiseman, you say prospect, I see suspect. Big time. And I wasn't crazy about the Dunham deal when it went down. He was never an elite guy and we were not looking for a last piece to the puzzle at the time. We were fading and almost out.
I can't argue with any of that, just don't think those deals were of that much consequence.
I am also not sure what you mean with regards to York, Zidlicky and Ekman.
Well, Sather didn't fail to recognize York's talent. He knew he was our most valuable asset and use him as a chip to secure a player he "liked" without questioning whether Poti was a player this team needed.
Zidlicky was a pending UFA who was not willing to sign based on Sather's contract terms. The ego got in the way of taking a chance on a dynamic young player, not a failure to recognize his potential.
Resigning Ekman would have been one helluva stretch considering the treatment he received from the team in 2003. Everyone and their mother was called up at some point, except the 'Pack's leading scorer!?!? I think Nils made the decision that the Rangers were not a place he would find success, not vice versa.
I'm less concerend about Sather's ability to identify talent than I am about how he uses it. Everyone we aquired has the potential the do something positive for this team somehow. It doesn't seem to me that Sather knows how to incorporate a bunch of peices and turn them into a team though.
More importantly, I was actually wondering recently how you are doing these days? Your move turned out well I hope and things are going well for you?
Since you ask, prepare for a thread subject hijacking..
Things are going well.. New Job, new house, new life.. Each keeping me busier than I ever have been before, so the hectic pace keeps me from dwelling too long on things..
Wife is doing good. Better than can be expected, and I guess I should just face another fear and make the announcement..
I've yet to mention this here, except to klingsor and a couple others via pm, but we're expecting again.. It's a boy..
We're due on the 21st of April, but going in on April 1st to do an amnio, and if the lungs are developed, then they'll induce.
Needless to say, it's been an anxious few months, but She's been going to a high risk doctor, and he's been good.. She's just so tough. Some complications, but nothing we can't handle. The "bad thoughts" that creep in have been the worst part.
So I've been down this road before, and I'm pretty nervous about posting it, but I was planning on letting the HF paisan's know some time soon, and now seemed as good a time as any..
Guess you could say we decided to "get busy living.."
Since you ask, prepare for a thread subject hijacking..
Things are going well.. New Job, new house, new life.. Each keeping me busier than I ever have been before, so the hectic pace keeps me from dwelling too long on things..
Wife is doing good. Better than can be expected, and I guess I should just face another fear and make the announcement..
I've yet to mention this here, except to klingsor and a couple others via pm, but we're expecting again.. It's a boy..
We're due on the 21st of April, but going in on April 1st to do an amnio, and if the lungs are developed, then they'll induce.
Needless to say, it's been an anxious few months, but She's been going to a high risk doctor, and he's been good.. She's just so tough. Some complications, but nothing we can't handle. The "bad thoughts" that creep in have been the worst part.
So I've been down this road before, and I'm pretty nervous about posting it, but I was planning on letting the HF paisan's know some time soon, and now seemed as good a time as any..
Guess you could say we decided to "get busy living.."
Davisian, I don't know you well enough to be the one worthy of starting a thread in your honor. I'lll leave that to the more established guys here but you're in my thoughts and I wish you and your wife nothing but the best. G-d tests us and he has tested you. I am sure you've passed and I hope He sees fit to give you the joy you deserve. Stay strong my friend and let me/us know how things go.
Longtime lurker, first time poster, so everyone please be relatively gentle.
1) Also a some-time-poster on BBI . . . wow, small world this internet. (dschwarz in westchester over there).
2) Why is everyone complaining about the Dunham deal? Even a year later this still seems like the worst sort of nitpicking.
The Rangers got a respectable No.1 goalie with a reasonable contract and years of productive hockey left in him. They had nothing, absolutely nothing, like him after Richter went down. What were Sather's options? It's pretty well documented that Montreal wanted a lot at the time for an older, more injury prone (and now retired) Jeff Hackett. Bryon Dafoe had been out of hockey for half a year and has done even worse than Dunham since he came back and signed with Atlanta.
Would letting Trottier start Blackburn another 20 games have been acceptable? Would throwing the entire season in December, with the largest payroll in the NHL, been palatable to the beancounters at MSG? Or to the players in the lockeroom? Hell no. And even if he had, what would he have done this offseason? With a retired Mike Richter and huge money devoted to Holik, Lindros, Kovalev, Nedved, Leetch, et al, he was not going to go into the season with a 20-year-old Blackburn as his No.1 goalie. Even Sather isn't that crazy.
Ultimately, Sather acquired a sound goalie at a reasonable price. (This last half-season not-withstanding).
As for the sour grapes on Zidlicky . . . I have only seen him play in one or two games. So I can't comment too specifically on his play. But I can talk about his numbers. He's older than Poti. Smaller than Poti. His +/- is worse than the allegedly 'defensively inept' Poti's has ever been, and he's playing fewer minutes on a better coached team with better goal tending. Basically he's a late-20's PP specialist, who may or may not evolve into a more complete player.
So in return for this PP specialist who wouldn't even report to Rangers camp, an injury ravaged defensive-defenseman prospect (Kloucek), and a third line forward less than a season away from UFA, Sather got a one time All-Star Goalie and Olympian with two years left on a reasonable contract. How is that not a good deal? Can anyone give me a more reasonable option that Sather had? Because I sure can't think of one.
3) Ekman was/is a real spot to critize Sather. Ekman had a stellar season in the AHL and never even got a whiff of Ranger ice. That Sather basically traded away a younger, smaller, faster, less PIM inclined Martin Rucinsky for a 'C' prospect is alarming.
Similarly, chosing to retain Dan Lacouture and not Ronald Petrovisky would be grounds for valid criticism. Failure to move Petr Nedved at any point in his essentially unbroken three years of substandard play would be grounds for unrest. Failure to remove the inconsistent Vlad Malakhov or the terrifying contract he signed the very limited Darius Kasparitius to are places that we can look to with increasing unease about Sather's ability to GM this team out of the gutter.
(Of course, his continued worship of Messier and his total inability to hire a decent NHL coach are far and away the two most damning aspects of his entire reign.)
G-d tests us and he has tested you. I am sure you've passed and I hope He sees fit to give you the joy you deserve. Stay strong my friend and let me/us know how things go.
I'm still wrestling with my feelings for the "omnipotent" one (no, not you SBOB, MJ or Guru), but still keeping faith in other ways.
Thanks for the well wishes, and I'd rather not have a thread right now.. the last one in my honor, while a great testament to the good people I've met here, was too heartbreaking. In some ways, I'm glad for the great HF board crash. Keeps me from going back to relive that time, and I have enough reminders.
I'm still wrestling with my feelings for the "omnipotent" one (no, not you SBOB, MJ or Guru), but still keeping faith in other ways.
Thanks for the well wishes, and I'd rather not have a thread right now.. the last one in my honor, while a great testament to the good people I've met here, was too heartbreaking. In some ways, I'm glad for the great HF board crash. Keeps me from going back to relive that time, and I have enough reminders.
well then this one's for you. Keep on keeping on.
As for the omnipotent one, if you saw the Count of Monte Cristo, where the future Count says "I don't believe in G-d" and the reply from the old man is "It doesn't matter. He believes in you."
Been thru upheaval at a young age and I know the anger at G-d. I still feel it. And my life is back together again. I don't blame you. Time is the ultimate salve though.
You take your time and do what you need. As much time as you need.
Uh, oh, sorry, guess I hijacked the thread back on topic.
Sorry guys
Nah, we can run two parallel threads.
Hey I think I awarded you best new poster at BBI a couple of years back in my end of year awards thread. I'd welcome you but I am mostly a lurker here so it isn't much of a welcome.
