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* Official Home Theater Discussion (TV's, Receivers, DVD, Speakers) *

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Old
03-22-2009, 02:30 PM
  #1
wolfgaze
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* Official Home Theater Discussion (TV's, Receivers, DVD, Speakers) *

Maybe a Mod can sticky this since we always see related threads springing up? We can utilize this thread for all home theater related discussion/help.

Post pictures of your set ups and list the components.

LIVING ROOM:


Sharp Aquos LC-46D82U (1080P, 46")
Bello PVS-4207HG stand
Marantz SR7002 Receiver
Marantz IS201 Ipod Dock
JBL Northridge E-Series Speakers (3.1 Set-Up, Sub Not Pictured)
Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR
Sony PS3 (currently broken!)
Monster HT850 Surge Protector
Audioquest 13 Gauge Power Cord




We've since added dark curtains over the windows and I removed the speaker grills:




BEDROOM:

Sharp Aquos LC-37D43U (720P, 37")
Scientific Atlanta 4250HD
Sanus Systems Tilting Wall Mount





I just got some new bookshelf speakers so I added them this morning after pulling my old receiver out of storage:

Pioneer VSX-D514 Receiver
Boston Acoustics E60 Bookshelves





I rent a room in a house that my best friend owns so our set up is a bit limited to the odd shape of our living room (we live in an older house). I hope to eventually have a 5.1 set up but currently our living room does not have the space for it. Speakers are the only component of my living room system that I plan to upgrade.... TV suits me fine, and the receiver is more than I need for my set-up.

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04-06-2009, 12:24 AM
  #2
invictus
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DLP vs. LCD

So, I'm moving into my townhouse the first week of May. A couple months ago, I came in asking tons of questions for a surround sound, which I purchased, and love.

Of course, now I need a tv to go with it (my roommate now has a tv). So I set my price limit at $1000.

I figure blu-ray isnt really a necessity for now. I have an upconverting DVD player I enjoy just fine until blu-ray drops a bit more. So I figured 1080p wasn't really necessary. I do plan on paying for HD Cable and all though, so I figured 720p would be fine.

I decided plasma wasn't for me and started looking at LCD's. Then I stumbled upon this:
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-HL50A6...pr_product_top

Fantastic reviews. 1080P and huge compared to a similarly priced LCD. So, I am forced to ask.......what is the catch here? Is there any reason I SHOULDN'T buy the 50" Samsung DLP? I watch lots of movies, and tv. I am not a gamer, at all. It is a bit heavier than the LCD, but is still fairly light (55 pounds isnt to ridiculous). Too big to wall mount, but I'm sure I can find a decent tv stand or whatever to put it (and my center speaker, and my dvd player, lol), on.

So, I ask you, tech people, what is the argument against getting the 50" 1080p DLP tv? Thanks!

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04-06-2009, 12:30 AM
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I can't speak for the Samsung specifically but I have a Sony DLP (this one) and it's great. The picture quality is comparable to TVs that were twice the price when I bought it and it does a much better job of reproducing blacks than most LCDs.

Size is the obvious issue. If you want to wall mount or something along those lines then DLP isn't the way to go. The other thing (with my model at least) is bulbs - they last ~10,000 hrs for my set and are $200 a pop to replace.

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04-06-2009, 01:22 AM
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invictus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
The picture quality is comparable to TVs that were twice the price when I bought it and it does a much better job of reproducing blacks than most LCDs.

Size is the obvious issue. If you want to wall mount or something along those lines then DLP isn't the way to go. The other thing (with my model at least) is bulbs - they last ~10,000 hrs for my set and are $200 a pop to replace.
Yeah, since I'm renting, I'd much prefer to not try to wall-mount anyways, haha. I'll just try to find a sturdy tv stand. Which is also kind of tough since I'll have to set my tv, my reciever, my cable box, my dvd player, and my center speaker on it, lol

10,000 hours is about 3.5 years of 8 hours a day, every day watching, so I figure that isn't such a bad con :-)

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Old
04-06-2009, 03:15 AM
  #5
invictus
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I didn't pay close enough attention, and that DLP is over the $1000 limit with shipping. So, back to getting an LCD. I figure a 40 or 42 inch is all I'll need. When comparing, it seems 720p isnt even that prominent anymore, and I actually found multiple 1080p LCD's for cheaper. There were 5 1080p's I found on Amazon for under a grand after shipping.

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-LN40A5...9001775&sr=1-8

That is a 40" 1080p that is $799 with free shipping. Seems hard to beat. If what I've read is correct, Samsung, Shard Aquos and Sony are the way to go, right?

Both of the Sharp's that fell under a grand were $170 and $200 more for just 2 inches bigger in size. I doubt a 42" looks $170 better than a 40" if they are both in 1080p and I'm sitting a reasonable distance (8-12 feet) from the tv, so that doesn't make sense.

Then, the other 2 were both 40" as well and more than $100 more expensive.

That Samsung I linked to has a 5 ms response time which I think is good enough from what I've read.

For you tech people, does that tv have any "obvious" flaw? Or should I go ahead and make it happen? $799 for a 40" 1080p LCD seems like a good price to me, I just want to make sure I'm not getting screwed on the technical stuff. Thanks!

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04-06-2009, 04:27 AM
  #6
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It looks decent to me, although I'm not a TV expert. If you have anything that uses DVI, you'll need an adaptor to run it on the TV, but as far as signal quality goes, HDMI and DVI are supposed to be electronically compatible, so you wouldn't lose any quality doing this.

Samsung is supposed to have a good quality picture, and - don't quote me on this as I've never tested them on it myself, but supposedly they have an above industry standard on dead pixels. Basically meaning, according to the industry standard, a screen can have up to a certain number of dead pixels before the company will accept your TV as being faulty - for 1080p, I think it's somewhere around 5. I have heard of Samsung replacing a screen for 1 dead pixel - but this could well vary from person to person depending on the customer service rep they're dealing with on the other end.

Where are you at? In Canada or the US? If you're in the US, I may not be able to do much for you, but if you're in Canada, I could always take a quick look for some deals if I get some time... and it's looking like I'm going to miss work with a bad back today, so I probably will get some time.

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Old
04-06-2009, 07:29 AM
  #7
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$799 is a terrific deal for that Sammy, IMHO. It's an excellent TV. I have a Samsung A450 and still absolutely love it. Highly highly recommended.

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Old
04-06-2009, 09:30 AM
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Id go with the lcd at 1080. No sense in wasting money on a 720 dlp.

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04-06-2009, 09:42 AM
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the 720 dlp samsungs ive seen actually look really good and very comparable to a lot of 1080s out there

and their 8 series lcd is fantastic

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Old
04-06-2009, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inviticus
So, I ask you, tech people, what is the argument against getting the 50" 1080p DLP tv? Thanks!
Here's one that I can thing of: http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-PN50A4...dp/B0015AV3XM/
But you've ruled out plasma and not given a single reason why.

Why?

Because for 720p there are some kick a$$ plasmas out there that put to shame any DLP and some LCD's. I have yet to figure out why people shy away from this technology. Many times it's cheaper per inch, with a superior picture (not by much, but superior many times).

But to answer your question more directly. DLPs usually give you more screen per dollar, by using the projection technology. You sacrifice some picture quality and view angle for that advantage. But you give up space because the things are pigs.

If your not looking for 1080p then why bother considering a set that's inferior to the others that have been listed here, just because it's got something you don't really want?

If your not set up for blu-ray, or don't care about it, then get the biggest plasma you can get for your money. They're also excellent for watching NHL HD broadcasts on.

At least that's what my advice would be, not knowing why you've ruled out plasma (bright room/gaming?).

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Old
04-06-2009, 12:10 PM
  #11
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I was just about to say, plasma imo is the way to go. I know LCD is taking over the market and all but it doesn't change the fact that plasma is still much better quality.

All the original issues with plasma tv's have been resolved (I'd say 99% of the issues) and not only that but LCD still does have many of problems they originally had.

Even though plasma is being pushed out, it isn't a bad technology imo it's the best.

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Old
04-06-2009, 12:45 PM
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disfigured
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post

Even though plasma is being pushed out, it isn't a bad technology imo it's the best.
I don't think it will ever be pushed out. If anything it will exist in the higher end market where it started. Sort of unfortunate considering its technology is inherently superior.

I'm am curious as to why the O.P ruled out plasma so quickly.

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04-06-2009, 01:17 PM
  #13
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I would recommend you stick with LCD unless you're interested in and have space for a 60"+ DLP. I have a 72" Samsung DLP and love it, but if I was looking for something below the 60" size for another room I would go the LCD route. The biggest advantage of the DLPs is the price point you can get for the larger screens.

If you're planning to move one or more times in the near future it's probably easier to go the flat screen route. The DLP's don't take up much more space than the flat panels if you're not wall-mounting them and are often lighter, but definitely more awkward to pack up and move.

No reason not to do 1080P at this point in time.

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04-06-2009, 01:58 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disfigured View Post
I don't think it will ever be pushed out. If anything it will exist in the higher end market where it started. Sort of unfortunate considering its technology is inherently superior.

I'm am curious as to why the O.P ruled out plasma so quickly.
Well I was basing that aspect of what I was saying soley on what I've heard from friends and HF people. But what I heard was that LCD was taking over the market and pretty soon we wouldn't be seeing plasma anymore.

I find that to be rather unfortunate if it's true because plasma is the best of the three technologies, but I think we all know sometimes being the best just doesn't cut it for some stupid reason.

Not saying LCD is bad btw, it's a very viable technology, just saying plasma is better and less likely to give you issues.

I can admit the older plasmas had a slew of problems just like the LCD's did. The difference being plasma issues have been 99% resolved and are much rarer then LCD issues which still keep happening.

Also whenever I read the comparisons on the web, they almost always say plasma is the superior technology and is more reliable in terms of all the random issues tvs get like ghosting, pixel loss, etc etc etc.

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04-06-2009, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disfigured View Post
Here's one that I can thing of: http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-PN50A4...dp/B0015AV3XM/
But you've ruled out plasma and not given a single reason why.

Why?

Because for 720p there are some kick a$$ plasmas out there that put to shame any DLP and some LCD's. I have yet to figure out why people shy away from this technology. Many times it's cheaper per inch, with a superior picture (not by much, but superior many times).

But to answer your question more directly. DLPs usually give you more screen per dollar, by using the projection technology. You sacrifice some picture quality and view angle for that advantage. But you give up space because the things are pigs.

If your not looking for 1080p then why bother considering a set that's inferior to the others that have been listed here, just because it's got something you don't really want?

If your not set up for blu-ray, or don't care about it, then get the biggest plasma you can get for your money. They're also excellent for watching NHL HD broadcasts on.

At least that's what my advice would be, not knowing why you've ruled out plasma (bright room/gaming?).
Well, a big thing is that plasma's seem to be energy hogs. I'm not sure how true that is, or if it is negligible, but seems like more LCD's have an energy star rating. Since I pay electricity myself, that is an issue.

Additionally, plasma's seem to run about 20 to 30 pounds more than LCD's, which is rather significant I think.

I mean, I am ok getting 1080p. I have nothing against it, but before I started shopping, I figured that would put all the "big" tv's out of my reach. But, then I found:

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-LN40A5...9001775&sr=1-8

$840 for a 40 inch 1080p LCD (damn, it was $799 earlier, haha).

And on that 50" tv you showed me, it seems like when getting to a tv of that size, is 1080p important to still look good along with HD channels and all?

Basically, when I buy electronic's, I don't want to regret it. I mean, if the 50" in 720p is going to look outstanding, then I'm fine with that, lol. I just don't want to get something a little bigger with a lower resolution and be like "DAMMIT!" 6 months later, you know?

Also, my living room where I'm putting it is about 10 by 12 or so. And there is a large window along the front wall, if that makes any difference.

Basically, I need to know for that size room, at one amount of inches, does 1080p matter over 720p? Like, is it one of those things where up to 45", 720p and then over 46" I need 1080p? I suppose that is important to know, haha.

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Old
04-06-2009, 02:30 PM
  #16
disfigured
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Well I was basing that aspect of what I was saying soley on what I've heard from friends and HF people. But what I heard was that LCD was taking over the market and pretty soon we wouldn't be seeing plasma anymore.

I find that to be rather unfortunate if it's true because plasma is the best of the three technologies, but I think we all know sometimes being the best just doesn't cut it for some stupid reason.

Not saying LCD is bad btw, it's a very viable technology, just saying plasma is better and less likely to give you issues.

I can admit the older plasmas had a slew of problems just like the LCD's did. The difference being plasma issues have been 99% resolved and are much rarer then LCD issues which still keep happening.

Also whenever I read the comparisons on the web, they almost always say plasma is the superior technology and is more reliable in terms of all the random issues tvs get like ghosting, pixel loss, etc etc etc.
I don't think it will go out entirely. There will always be a market for the "best" of the "best" when it comes to TV's, and right now, and for the foresable future that is plasma. I think we'll see the highend plasmas hang in there, but unfortunately the lower and midrange will probably be forced out by LCD.

How many have succumbed to this marketing ploy is really the story here. I don't know the exact market forces that are behind it, but it's really a shame. Same with the push for 1080p, what a joke, most people sit too far away to discern a difference.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mouser
No reason not to do 1080P at this point in time.
I can think of two very good reasons:

A) the O.P already stated he wasn't interested in Blu-Ray

and

B) money

So what is he getting out of a 1080p set until he buys a Blu-Ray player? Nothing, it's just money down the tubes. It's going to force him to buy a TV of smaller size and less quality, or sadly maybe both.

If your on a budget, and don't have an extremely bright room your putting a TV in, you should be considering a plasma. There's no logical reason not to. If you find an LCD that to your eye you love, then fine, but to rule out plasma all together is just bad consumerism.

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Old
04-06-2009, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Well I was basing that aspect of what I was saying soley on what I've heard from friends and HF people. But what I heard was that LCD was taking over the market and pretty soon we wouldn't be seeing plasma anymore.
Vizio and Pioneer both recently dropped plasma. LG is reportedly considering doing so also.

There are a lot of other companies still making plasma's, although the only other large volume sellers of plasma in the US are Panasonic and Samsung.

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04-06-2009, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disfigured View Post
I can think of two very good reasons:

A) the O.P already stated he wasn't interested in Blu-Ray

and

B) money

So what is he getting out of a 1080p set until he buys a Blu-Ray player? Nothing, it's just money down the tubes. It's going to force him to buy a TV of smaller size and less quality, or sadly maybe both.

If your on a budget, and don't have an extremely bright room your putting a TV in, you should be considering a plasma. There's no logical reason not to. If you find an LCD that to your eye you love, then fine, but to rule out plasma all together is just bad consumerism.
Well, I've got to head to class, but you seem to know what is up. I suppose without a blu-ray, that that 720p 50" is still going to look the same as a 1080p, right? And with HD tv, it will still look damn good?

I thought along with plasma fixing burn-in, that LCD had fixed most of their viewing angle problems and lag. Is that true? Or what other concerns are there with LCD? Thanks, and I look forward to reading your response later :-)

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04-06-2009, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Well I was basing that aspect of what I was saying soley on what I've heard from friends and HF people. But what I heard was that LCD was taking over the market and pretty soon we wouldn't be seeing plasma anymore.

I find that to be rather unfortunate if it's true because plasma is the best of the three technologies, but I think we all know sometimes being the best just doesn't cut it for some stupid reason.
Plasma is most definitely dying for the mass market. Pioneer, who was the premiere manufacturer of plasma screens, is leaving the market, which is a huge blow to plasma. LCD is where the future is.

However, the assumption that plasma is a better technology is highly subjective. The most stated advantages of plasma are high contrast ratios (black levels), vibrant color reproduction (in certain light levels) and wide viewing angles. But every year the gap narrows on each of these advantages. When you add in the advantages of LCD - mainly, almost half the power consumption, no issues with burn-in (plasma has greatly improved on this, but it is still an issue) and lighter weight - the difference isn't so lopsided.

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04-06-2009, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by invictus View Post
I thought along with plasma fixing burn-in, that LCD had fixed most of their viewing angle problems and lag. Is that true? Or what other concerns are there with LCD? Thanks, and I look forward to reading your response later :-)
Plasma has improved the issues with burn-in. They have not fixed them. They've greatly increased the time it takes a static image to burn in (from about 15 minutes with the old sets, to several hours on the new ones), but there's a reason that plasma is not used for computer monitors. To be fair, though, most people won't encounter burn-in issues with the newer sets with standard use. However, the potential is still there.

Plasma viewing angle is still superior to LCD, at 160 degrees. The best LCD can manage so far is ~120 degrees.

Dead pixels can still be a concern with LCD, but these are covered under most manufacturer warranties, and are fairly rare. Also, pixel response times can be a concern on cheaper sets.

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04-06-2009, 02:56 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disfigured View Post
I don't think it will go out entirely. There will always be a market for the "best" of the "best" when it comes to TV's, and right now, and for the foresable future that is plasma. I think we'll see the highend plasmas hang in there, but unfortunately the lower and midrange will probably be forced out by LCD.
Wouldn't OLED TVs be the "best of the best" right now? I'd say they are definitely the future of HD television at least. If I was filthy rich I'd be looking into one of them.

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04-06-2009, 03:03 PM
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Wow just missed each other by a minute :-).

Quote:
Originally Posted by invictus
Well, a big thing is that plasma's seem to be energy hogs. I'm not sure how true that is, or if it is negligible, but seems like more LCD's have an energy star rating. Since I pay electricity myself, that is an issue.
That is true and something you have to consider if on a budget

Quote:
Originally Posted by invictus
Additionally, plasma's seem to run about 20 to 30 pounds more than LCD's, which is rather significant I think.
Only an issue when moving it. Either way any flat panel is so easy to move the weight is rarely an issue. Moving them is like carrying a heavy **** of plywood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by invictus
I mean, I am ok getting 1080p. I have nothing against it, but before I started shopping, I figured that would put all the "big" tv's out of my reach. But, then I found:

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-LN40A5...9001775&sr=1-8

$840 for a 40 inch 1080p LCD (damn, it was $799 earlier, haha).
10" smaller, and you'll never see the 1080p till you buy and use a Blu-Ray player. Yes a deal for those who use 1080p, but for you, you gain nothing. In fact you lose size and probably picture quality compared to the TV I posted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by invictus
And on that 50" tv you showed me, it seems like when getting to a tv of that size, is 1080p important to still look good along with HD channels and all?
No HD is broadcast in 1080p. 1080p is only utilized when playing a Blu-Ray or console game that supports that screen format.

Quote:
Originally Posted by invictus
Basically, when I buy electronic's, I don't want to regret it. I mean, if the 50" in 720p is going to look outstanding, then I'm fine with that, lol. I just don't want to get something a little bigger with a lower resolution and be like "DAMMIT!" 6 months later, you know?
They are all going to display nearly the same picture unless you've buy and use a Blu-Ray player or console that can push that resolution. The 1080p TV will simply reformat all your broadcast in 720p or 1080i. If your planning or even thinking of every buying a Blu-Ray player then you'd be in your "DAMMIT" situation. Since the BR player won't even produce a picture on a 720p TV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by invictus
Also, my living room where I'm putting it is about 10 by 12 or so. And there is a large window along the front wall, if that makes any difference.
That could make a difference. Imagine mounting a sliding glass door sideways in your living room. The reflections off a plasma are nearly that. Sometimes they are so clear and vivid in the day time they are hard to ignore. At night no problem, even brightly lit rooms do fine. It's only the intensity of the natural light.

Quote:
Originally Posted by invictus
Basically, I need to know for that size room, at one amount of inches, does 1080p matter over 720p? Like, is it one of those things where up to 45", 720p and then over 46" I need 1080p? I suppose that is important to know, haha.
It's actually the opposite of what most people perceive. You need to be closer to your TV to discern the difference between 720p and 1080p. As you draw away from the TV the less noticeable is the higher definition. But as you get closer the more you take advantage of the higher resolution. The human eye simply can't take in that much detail, at further distances.

Here's a chart that's posted here a lot. I've draw lines at 42" and 50" for easier reference since those are the 2 most popular dimensions.


I'm a plasma advocate but only when the situation warrants it. And yours is custom fit for this technology at 720p.

Not to mention if you love watching NHL HD broadcasts, there's no problem with plasmas. It's only (some of) the LCD's of 60mghz that have that problem. Although plasmas also operate at 60mghz the technology used to produce the picture doesn't suffer from the "lag" that some describe while watching fast paced sporting events on HD broadcasts.

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Old
04-06-2009, 03:17 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruins4Lifer View Post
Wouldn't OLED TVs be the "best of the best" right now? I'd say they are definitely the future of HD television at least. If I was filthy rich I'd be looking into one of them.
Holy crap (after some Googling), that's bleeding edge stuff. I haven't really been in the market for a TV since 2007.

From the quick things I've just read it's the size factor that's the stunner here. 3mm thick? Cool. But the color reproduction and black levels aren't all that much of a leap forward.

Then again, there's not much difference between the sound quality of a briefcase cellphone and a new one, but we just love our gadgets amaller and smaller. .

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04-06-2009, 03:19 PM
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*Injektilo
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I bought a plasma (Panasonic 46") because I was concerned about the LCD's refresh rate - anything less than 120Hz is a non-starter for me, as the action is way too blurry to my liking. For the price those particular LCDs go, plasmas are actually cheaper.

And sure, plasmas take up more energy, but we actually don't watch a whole lot of TV, so I'm not too concerned about that.

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04-06-2009, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruins4Lifer View Post
Wouldn't OLED TVs be the "best of the best" right now? I'd say they are definitely the future of HD television at least. If I was filthy rich I'd be looking into one of them.
The problem is not just their cost, but also their shelf life - no more than 3k-5k hours before it starts to go bad. No doubt they'll eventually find a way to improve it, but that's 5-10 years away.

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