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Trade in place to send Lecavalier to Montreal @ the draft

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Old
03-23-2009, 12:45 PM
  #26
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Im so sick of hearing about this crap, I can't even imagine how he feels. I don't want to see him go, Im scared that the idiots we have will not get a package that even comes close to what Vinny brings.If it does happen they better get ready for the backlash they're going to get.

I'll support Vinny wherever he goes, maybe he can go to a place where he truly is appreciated by everyone.





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03-23-2009, 12:48 PM
  #27
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03-23-2009, 01:03 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by gobolt7 View Post
His new contract kicks in July 1st. He has no no movement clause prior to that.
Oops, I thought it kicked in by May or June. Anyway, I understand ownership wants to save on salary for a year or two, but what about the cap floor? Trading away Vinny, and possibly Prospal too, without getting Markov in return (and getting say Higgins, Kostitsyn and a couple defensive prospects) would put us right at that level. My feeling is just that if we trade Vinny, we should do it to address our biggest need, a puck mover on the blue line.

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03-23-2009, 01:12 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by VoteNOB View Post
Actually I believe he told Dumig that the Lightning will not be trading Vinny ever. He also has the following quotes in the Tribune.

"I'll say never right now," Lawton said. "You can usually say you should never say never, but because people have taken such liberties with that whole deal, we never shopped Vinny Lecavalier. Did people ask about him? Of course. Who wouldn't? Were we actively calling teams? No. We never did and we never will.

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/teams/report/TB/11422716

Case closed, as this thread should be closed, it's more dumbass Montreal fans/reporters/Larry Brooks starting more dumbass rumors. Enough already.
Please tell me you're not actually believing something because Lawton said "never"?
And we're supposed to believe him why? 99% of the crap that comes from Brooks I would be willing to throw right out the window, but everybody gets lucky once in a while.

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Old
03-23-2009, 01:28 PM
  #30
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Living in Mtl, I have never really been fazed by all the Vinny to the Habs talk in the past. I've been to TB twice to watch the Bolts play...and I was really amazed at the love affair the fan base had for Vinny. I'm not suggesting he doesn't deserve it, because he does. What I'm saying is, whenever the rumors of a deal were around, I always thought back to Lecavalier's popularity in TB.

But that was in a different era, with smart people running the franchise. This time, I believe it's going to happen. And you know what? I think it is probably the right move for the Bolts, and yes it's only because of that contract. It's a bad one. It may not be an albatross, per se, but it probably will end up that way if he lands in Mtl.

I think Markov would undoubtedly have to be involved in this deal. But I also think there will be a push from another team that is going to make this whole thing interesting...Toronto.

If Burke gets involved, Lawton could try playing Mtl and Tor against each other. Kaberle would definitely be involved in a deal with the Leafs, and Burke might get involved for two reasons: A) force the Habs to overpay and B) Lecavalier is pretty much the type of player he loves to build around.

I predict Toronto will get involved, and will force Montreal to give up more than they want to surrender. And the Habs may not have a choice, because the natives are now beyond restless.

This situation needs to be monitored, for sure.

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03-23-2009, 01:34 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Symphony X View Post
Please tell me you're not actually believing something because Lawton said "never"?
And we're supposed to believe him why? 99% of the crap that comes from Brooks I would be willing to throw right out the window, but everybody gets lucky once in a while.

I have no reason to not believe Brian Lawton. Brooks on the other hand, yikes.

I understand the frustration that everyone here shares with the way the last two seasons have gone, believe me I'm frustrated over it too but Lawton isn't bad guy here. He's not only made the statements that I quoted but he also went on Dumig's show and made them again. Anyone with any experience in public relations will tell you that you can't go back on your word like that, you and your organization will lose all of it's credibility.

They aren't in a cap situation where they could trade Vinny anyway. They wouldn't get enough back in salary to make the floor.

This team has a bright future ahead of it (may take another season or two) and trading Vinny isn't part of that immediate future. Too many holes to fill and losing him creates another one. Remember, we still need 2 more defensemen who are capable of playing in the top 4, we need as scoring winger/power forward and we need to find a decent backup for Smith because Ramo isn't really showing us he's capable of that role right now.

Trading Vinny makes no sense.

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Old
03-23-2009, 02:05 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by VoteNOB View Post
I have no reason to not believe Brian Lawton. Brooks on the other hand, yikes.

I understand the frustration that everyone here shares with the way the last two seasons have gone, believe me I'm frustrated over it too but Lawton isn't bad guy here. He's not only made the statements that I quoted but he also went on Dumig's show and made them again. Anyone with any experience in public relations will tell you that you can't go back on your word like that, you and your organization will lose all of it's credibility.

They aren't in a cap situation where they could trade Vinny anyway. They wouldn't get enough back in salary to make the floor.

This team has a bright future ahead of it (may take another season or two) and trading Vinny isn't part of that immediate future. Too many holes to fill and losing him creates another one. Remember, we still need 2 more defensemen who are capable of playing in the top 4, we need as scoring winger/power forward and we need to find a decent backup for Smith because Ramo isn't really showing us he's capable of that role right now.

Trading Vinny makes no sense.
It makes sense from a cash and cap hit standpoint.

Why I think this could work wonderfully: instead of one star at 7+ million a year with the cap going down, you force another team to handcuff themselves with the contract while you can wrap up some youngsters at 4ish mil/year and get close to the same production, if not more.

Ramo is fine as backup now, do you not realize there is a **** defense in front of him?

Lawton is lying his balls off, lets be honest here. Of course he is. He has every right to be. There is no nobility in this league with being "honest Bob" as the Canadiens fans say. I get the feeling they want to try to pull a Nashville here... have most guys locked up under 5 million, and its not that they don't have the money, but that doesn't mean they want to pay it. If/when the cap goes down, look at the hits that we have right now... majority of the "big name" guys are under 5. We would be in pretty damn good shape.

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Old
03-23-2009, 02:25 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by VoteNOB View Post
This team has a bright future ahead of it (may take another season or two) and trading Vinny isn't part of that immediate future. Too many holes to fill and losing him creates another one. Remember, we still need 2 more defensemen who are capable of playing in the top 4, we need as scoring winger/power forward and we need to find a decent backup for Smith because Ramo isn't really showing us he's capable of that role right now.
But, if trading him fills 2-3 of those holes that you mentioned, isn't the team in better shape?

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Old
03-23-2009, 02:27 PM
  #34
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It makes sense from a cash and cap hit standpoint.

Why I think this could work wonderfully: instead of one star at 7+ million a year with the cap going down, you force another team to handcuff themselves with the contract while you can wrap up some youngsters at 4ish mil/year and get close to the same production, if not more.

We won't end up with the great haul people are expecting, it almost never turns out that way. We'll end up with one proven player and 4 prospects and maybe a high round pick, meanwhile 3 of the 4 prospects won't cut it and the other will ask to be traded. Trading Vinny to Montreal makes no sense. Never has and probably never will.

Ramo is fine as backup now, do you not realize there is a **** defense in front of him?

I realize the defense is crap infront of him but he's not exactly playing stellar either. He lets in his share of softies. If we had to go 20 games again with him and (Insert AHL goalie here) in net, it won't be a good thing and we'll go 5-15 in the process. We need a decent back up who can play 20 games during the year and not lose the majority of them. I'm sorry, I don't think Ramo is that guy at this point in his career.

Lawton is lying his balls off, lets be honest here. Of course he is. He has every right to be. There is no nobility in this league with being "honest Bob" as the Canadiens fans say. I get the feeling they want to try to pull a Nashville here... have most guys locked up under 5 million, and its not that they don't have the money, but that doesn't mean they want to pay it. If/when the cap goes down, look at the hits that we have right now... majority of the "big name" guys are under 5. We would be in pretty damn good shape.
You still haven't proven that he's "lying his balls off" as you put it. Trading Vinny makes no sense , there's no logical reason for doing it , you'll never get what he's worth back UNLESS you get lucky and one of those prospects turns into a superstar and there's too much risk that that's not going to happen.

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Old
03-23-2009, 02:27 PM
  #35
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But, if trading him fills 2-3 of those holes that you mentioned, isn't the team in better shape?

You'll never get that kind of return.

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03-23-2009, 02:39 PM
  #36
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You'll never get that kind of return.
Don't bet against it. Montreal is on the verge of falling out of the playoffs in the season where they had to win it all; in a city like Montreal, where it's expected that the team be great every year, that's going to go over like a fart in church. I expect major changes within the organization this summer, and given how desperate we're going to be, I'd think that Tampa could get a lot more than the Higgins/Plekanec/Gorges/Subban deal that was previously bandied about.

Markov + Plekanec + top prospect + pair of firsts? Am I far off?

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Old
03-23-2009, 02:53 PM
  #37
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I don't really remember much talk about us "never" trading Brad Richards. It was very obvious one of the big three was going to be shipped out and we weren't dealing Vinny, and Marty was too valuable, so Richards it was.

Boyle, well, thats a whole other ball game, but still there is a chance a guy like that gets traded, remember he didn't get much respect around the league until after he was sent to San Jose.

Vinny is not going anywhere. Unless its a package that includes 3-4 1st round picks, 2-3 young roster ready players and 2-3 great young prospects, with a promise Celine Dion never makes music again, its just not gonna happen. Furthermore, the team that everyone seems to be so sure he'll be dealt to, is now up for sale. So there goes that idea.

And I'll make a wager or two...anyone have paypal? Vinny will be a Bolt for life.

You can take that to the bank.

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Old
03-23-2009, 02:54 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by VoteNOB View Post
You still haven't proven that he's "lying his balls off" as you put it. Trading Vinny makes no sense , there's no logical reason for doing it , you'll never get what he's worth back UNLESS you get lucky and one of those prospects turns into a superstar and there's too much risk that that's not going to happen.
Well if you want to talk about the "prospects that won't pan out and leave" we can easily throw in the "Vinnys shoulder will never be the same again" argument and it holds just as much weight. Then what? A 7 million dollar man that puts up 30/30?

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Old
03-23-2009, 02:56 PM
  #39
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Don't bet against it. Montreal is on the verge of falling out of the playoffs in the season where they had to win it all; in a city like Montreal, where it's expected that the team be great every year, that's going to go over like a fart in church. I expect major changes within the organization this summer, and given how desperate we're going to be, I'd think that Tampa could get a lot more than the Higgins/Plekanec/Gorges/Subban deal that was previously bandied about.

Markov + Plekanec + top prospect + pair of firsts? Am I far off?
I'd be happy with that.

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Old
03-23-2009, 03:16 PM
  #40
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Well if you want to talk about the "prospects that won't pan out and leave" we can easily throw in the "Vinnys shoulder will never be the same again" argument and it holds just as much weight. Then what? A 7 million dollar man that puts up 30/30?
I'll take that risk. If his shoulder was that bad off, they would have shut him down already. Look how they treated Mike Smith's injury.

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Old
03-23-2009, 03:24 PM
  #41
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I'll take that risk. If his shoulder was that bad off, they would have shut him down already. Look how they treated Mike Smith's injury.
You mean the way he kept playing without anyone knowing he was hurt but his play in a slow yet steady decline?

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Old
03-23-2009, 03:31 PM
  #42
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I don't really remember much talk about us "never" trading Brad Richards. It was very obvious one of the big three was going to be shipped out and we weren't dealing Vinny, and Marty was too valuable, so Richards it was.
same here. I always thought that if one of the 3 had to go, Richards would be the first.

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Boyle, well, thats a whole other ball game, but still there is a chance a guy like that gets traded, remember he didn't get much respect around the league until after he was sent to San Jose.
As for the Boyle to Lecavailer comparisons, they are completely different, which is the only thing giving me hope right now. With Boyle it wasn't really a big thing. They made a couple comments on that he was staying and then they traded him. It is well known from Torts that they didn't want him around and especially from Len. With Lecavalier, they have made this into a big deal that he is here to stay. After seeing what a little white lie has done to them with the Boyle situation why would you want to put your self in a situation like this with Vinny? They invited him to the Town Hall Meeting to sit with the important people. They gave him the contract and made a huge fuss over it. They made it very public that they wanted to build around him. Through the season, Lawton has said over and over again that he wasn't going to trade Vinny, and even had to hold a press conference. If he was going to trade Vinny, why try sooo hard to hide it.

If it's true, Lawton has dug himself such a big hole, that I'm not sure he can weasel out of it. After everything you've done, if you eventually trade Vinny, I would never show your face again. If you want any credibility in this league and what to act like a professional, you better start sticking to your word. It won't even matter if the trade is a complete steal for us. You've already made A LOT of awful trades. Oren has used this team to promote his movies, Len has helped members of Bear Mt. and now Lawton has helped his wife get a high position job. The new Lightning have done a lot of damage, and soon many things will be called into question, but even I don't think theyre that dumb to trade Vinny after everything they've done to keep him.

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Old
03-23-2009, 03:55 PM
  #43
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Then what? A 7 million dollar man that puts up 30/30?
It still isnt all that bad even then, Drury, Gomez and Briere, ring any bells?

They are all paid similar rates to Vinny (or within about 1 million of him) and score less. I will admit they are classed as some of the worst contracts in the league, but even if he only scores 30/30 from now on, it is hardly on the Redden level of contracts is it?

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03-23-2009, 04:09 PM
  #44
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Don't bet against it. Montreal is on the verge of falling out of the playoffs in the season where they had to win it all; in a city like Montreal, where it's expected that the team be great every year, that's going to go over like a fart in church. I expect major changes within the organization this summer, and given how desperate we're going to be, I'd think that Tampa could get a lot more than the Higgins/Plekanec/Gorges/Subban deal that was previously bandied about.

Markov + Plekanec + top prospect + pair of firsts? Am I far off?
markov+AK+subban/top winger prospect+1st and its done today. just because i think the whole idea is getting tavares and trading vinny, so plekanec is worthless since it would be stamkos-tavares-halpern down the middle.

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03-23-2009, 05:00 PM
  #45
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It still isnt all that bad even then, Drury, Gomez and Briere, ring any bells?

They are all paid similar rates to Vinny (or within about 1 million of him) and score less. I will admit they are classed as some of the worst contracts in the league, but even if he only scores 30/30 from now on, it is hardly on the Redden level of contracts is it?
If the cap goes down, yes, it is bad.

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Old
03-23-2009, 05:09 PM
  #46
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It's not possible for one organization to trade away a franchise D-man one summer, then trade away a franchise center the next. It's just...I refuse to believe these people are that stupid.

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03-23-2009, 06:02 PM
  #47
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Here's something

Last year's average attendance was 18,692. This year, the projected average is right at 16,000... or down 14.4%. How much further does anyone think attendance would go down if they trade him?

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03-23-2009, 06:09 PM
  #48
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Here's something

Last year's average attendance was 18,692. This year, the projected average is right at 16,000... or down 14.4%. How much further does anyone think attendance would go down if they trade him?
Pretty far down.

I know the arguments for and against trading him and I can agree with both sides, I just can't quite figure out exactly what the "plan" is here. If they even said "we're looking to contend in 4 years" i'd say alright. I just can't figure it out quite yet. I see a disconnect between a good coach and a system that requires a certain kind of player, and owners who have ideas about what a hockey team should be, and a GM who has an idea of what a team should be, and they're all battling each other.

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03-23-2009, 06:12 PM
  #49
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Vinny for Spezza straight up

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Old
03-23-2009, 06:14 PM
  #50
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The only way trading Vinny makes sense is if the Lightning get the first pick overall or they need to shed alot of salary. Assuming Salary not the issue only way I trade Vinny to Montreal is if I draft Tavares and one of Price or Markov coming the other way. Unless Montreal puts value the other way, there is alot of other teams that can come up with better deals.

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