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Old
03-16-2004, 09:36 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pantherhockey
Hart Winner Roberto Luongo Florida Panthers
Runners Up Martin St Louis Tampa Bay Lightning Markus Naslund Vancouver Canucks
Loser normally don't win the Hart.

Ask Iginla...

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Old
03-16-2004, 09:48 PM
  #52
Patty Roy
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Hart trophy - Martin St. Louis (Tampa Bay)
Runner ups: Roberto Luongo (Florida), Joe Sakic (Colorado)

Vezina trophy - Martin Brodeur (New Jersey)
Runner ups: Roberto Luongo (Florida), Jose Theodore (Montreal)

Clader trophy - Andrew Raycroft (Boston)
Runner ups: Michael Ryder (Montreal), Joni Pitkanen (Philadelphia)

Adams - Andy Murray (Lost Angeles)
Runner ups: Darryl Sutter (Calgary), Claude Julien (Montreal)

Norris - Rob Blake (Colorado)
Runner ups: Zdeno Chara (Ottawa), Scott Niedermayer (New Jersey)

Selke - Kris Draper (Detroit)

Lady Bing - Brad Richards (Tampa Bay)

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Old
03-16-2004, 10:04 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DownFromNJ
Art Ross: St. Louis
Calder: Raycroft (Sorry, Ryder doesn't carry a team on his back)
well.. maybe you should watch Ryder play.. and then speak, this guy is awsome, and Boston as a killer team, dont forget that, Ryder and Ribeiro two players wich no one expected are being the heart and soul of the habs with Koivu, Ryder as 11 pts over Hunter as the leading rookie scorer.. Yeah Raycroft might win it but Ryder will certainly give some challenge and for the people who say Ryder wont be in the finalist... holy sh... its just impossible, Ryder is playing big but really big, tonight he got 1 goal and 1 assist wich gives him 74-22-35-57 pts he doesnt only score he can hit and you will not see Ryder fall when he hit he might not be huge but damn does he have a great balance, and also Ryder as been considered like a complete player for all his career and now being a sniper, hell he never played a single nhl game prior to this year, he can play great in pk but believe it or not as not see PK at all this season, youll see Ryder log huge ice time next season. so he does have a great potential, for anyone who saw the young all-star game and that saw Ryder suck, well be ready to see him in a real game. he can shoot from anywhere with great strenght and precision and is boosting is stickhandling big time right now, ask any Avs fan and ask then what they think of Ryder now.

Calder:
1.Raycroft (really close)
2.Ryder (if he loses it wont be my much)
3.Pitkanen (just awsome skills, this guy is the next lidstrom, maybe even better!)
4.Hunter (almost a tie with Pitkanen)

all i can say is this year some rookies are making huge steps the new generation of players is here. and there is some awsome players.


Last edited by Crusher20: 03-16-2004 at 10:10 PM.
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Old
03-16-2004, 10:41 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DownFromNJ
Paul Martin of the Devils should at least be a runner up for the Calder. With 3 of the 4 top Devils defenseman out, he's playing in the #2 spot and 25 minutes a game. He's plus 8 last I checked.
The rookie class is very deep this year. And while Martin may be having a solid year for NJ, there is no way in hell he will be a finalist for the Calder.

Nice homer pick though, good job.

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Old
03-16-2004, 10:47 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand
I'm not trying to say he is a shoe in, but you certainly must agree he has an excellent chance, as does Theo, Nabby or Aebischer. IMO, Brodeur has played his way out of any vezina talk, and Turco just doesn't have the stats. Rolly and Raycroft just don't have the gp for them to be justified either.
I agree that its wide open. You make a claim here that Turco doesnt have the numbers. The only number he doesnt beat Luongo in is save %. Turco has a 2.03 GAA compared to 2.29 for Luongo. Turco has 32 wins to Luongo's 23.

I know, I know...the teams they play for play a role. But for you to claim that Luongo has an "excellent chance", and that Turco "doesnt have the stats" seems wrong to me. Turco has very solid numbers. Some even better than Luongo. I am not saying that Turco should win it. Just saying that his numbers are very good.

If I HAD to choose today, I would probably go with Theodore. The Habs are playing great this year, and he is a big reason for it. Luongo is great, but I just cant fathom giving the Vezina to a guy with a losing record.

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Old
03-17-2004, 01:08 PM
  #56
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i find it strange not one poster mentioned david aebischer for vezina consideration, top 10 in games played, shutouts, and top 5 in wins, GAA, SV% and has the fewest losses among goalies with 30 wins and over 50 games played. if you compare his numbers to that of his former backup sauve you will see it is not the play of his defence that helped him get his numbers as the avs are pretty sloppy in their own end but rather the excellent play from aebischer this year.

also no mention of vokoun who has 30 wins and has played a huge role in keeping the preds in the playoff hunt.

it looks like this year there is some serious competition for 4 awards:

vezina: aebischer, brodeur, kipprosouf, luongo, roloson, theodore, turco and vokoun. all have had outstanding and vezina worthy seasons.

norris: blake, chara, gonchar, niedermayer, pronger, schnedieur, and souray.

calder: bergeron, hunter, liles, martin, pitkanen, raycroft, ryder and zherdev.

jack adams: hitchcock, julien, murray, sutter, torterilla, and trotz.

should be very interesting to see how this all plays out.

BTW my all-rookie team

raycroft-pitkanen-liles
ryder-bergeron-hunter

1st team all-star

elias-sakic-st. louis
pronger-blake
theodore

2nd team all-star

kovalchuk-lang-naslund
chara-niedermayer
luongo

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Old
03-17-2004, 02:52 PM
  #57
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Hart and Art Ross: Joe Sakic... He is the Colorado Avalanche.

Calder: Ryder. As goos as Raycroft is, Ryder is just as good... toss up, but I go with Ryder.

Norris: Blake. Charra deserves it, but Blake will win because of the US media.

Adams: Toterrella (sp?) Bottom line, he has made the Lighting a Stanley Cup Contender. Wins this hands down.

Vezina: Theodore. Numbers aren't everything. Montreal has more wins than all but 2 teams. Theodore is the biggest reason why.

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Old
03-17-2004, 03:08 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmad
Selke:
Turner Stevenson
John Madden
Trevor Linden (nominated because he's the #1 PKer on the #1 PKing team in the NHL)
Stevenson is VERY far fetched being a 0 on the best defensive team in the league.
Just to let you know, Vancouver has the 4th best PK in the league right now. Detroit has the best in the league, therefore, by your logic, Draper would win the Selke being the "#1 PKer on the #1 PKing team".

Selke: Draper
Hart: St. Louis
Vezina: Luongo
Calder: Raycroft
Adams: Murray
Norris: Pronger

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Old
03-17-2004, 03:56 PM
  #59
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Hart: Joe Sakic
Runners Up: Martin St.Louis, Roberto Luongo
Art Ross: Joe Sakic
Runner Up: Martin St.Louis
Selke: Kris Draper
Runner Up: Martin St.Louis
Norris: Zdeno Chara
Runners Up: Rob Blake, Bryan McCabe
Vezina: Roberto Luongo
Runners Up: Martin Brodeur, Andrew Raycroft
Calder: Andrew Raycroft
Runners Up: Micheal Ryder, Trent Hunter
Pearson: Martin St.Louis
Runner Up: Joe Sakic
Jennings: Kiprusoff
Runner Up: Martin Brodeur
Lady Byng: Martin St.Louis
Runner Up: Brad Richards
Masterson: Sheldon Souray
Runner Up: Nobody
Adams: Andy Murray

I think that's just about it.

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Old
03-17-2004, 11:53 PM
  #60
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Nash will win Rocket Richard, come on people, where's the respect?

You all put Kovalchuk down, talk about a "We hate Nash" board.

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Old
03-18-2004, 01:02 AM
  #61
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Ross: Sakic (St. Louis, Naslund)
Richard: Kovalchuk (Iginla, Hedjuk)

Calder:

Andrew Raycroft
Ryan Malone
Micheal Ryder

Vezina:

Roberto Luongo
Martin Broduer
Marty Turco

Norris:

Zdeno Chara
Scott Neidermeyer
Chris Pronger

Hart:

Roberto Luongo
Markus Naslund
Martin St.Louis

Jack Adams:

Andy Murray
John Tortorella
Daryll Sutter

Selke:

Kris Draper
Michal Handzus
Mike York

Lady Byng:

Brad Richards
Daniel Alfredsson
Milan Hedjuk

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Old
03-18-2004, 01:18 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchausen
I don't get the logic behind this (actually, I do get the logic, but I fail to see how this will factor in when the official decision is made). Ryder is the best forward of the bunch this year (a case could be made for Hunter because he played fewer games). Ryder's on pace for 60+ points while being the 2nd best scorer on his team, 4 points behing leading scorer Mike Ribeiro. Raycroft's the best goalie. Pitkanen the best Dman... No matter the age (there's a reason why there's an age limit for the award). It's the best rookie award, not the youngest guy who's doing the best award. For this reason IMO Bergeron doesn't stand a chance.

IMO Raycroft should win it, as Boston would never have gotten to where they are with Potvin, and I mean not even close. But given how the NHL tends to favor forwards for the award, I'd say Ryder has as good a shot, especially considering how important he is offensively for his team. The rest I'd honestly be surprised if they won it. Pitkanen is awsome, but I'd be shocked if they awarded the trophy to a Dman 2 years in a row (although Pitkanen's an offensive Dman, so that might help).

yes TECHNICALLY age doesn't matter. If the 23 year old guy is CLEARLY better than the 18 year old it doesn't matter that he's got 5 extra years of development and that the 18 year old at 23 will probably be better than the other 23 year old (possibly)


But i know that to a LOT of people and me too a guy's age is important in a situation like this. ANd younger guys get a little extra slack/credit

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Old
03-18-2004, 09:38 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgy4
I agree that its wide open. You make a claim here that Turco doesnt have the numbers. The only number he doesnt beat Luongo in is save %. Turco has a 2.03 GAA compared to 2.29 for Luongo. Turco has 32 wins to Luongo's 23.

I know, I know...the teams they play for play a role. But for you to claim that Luongo has an "excellent chance", and that Turco "doesnt have the stats" seems wrong to me. Turco has very solid numbers. Some even better than Luongo. I am not saying that Turco should win it. Just saying that his numbers are very good.

If I HAD to choose today, I would probably go with Theodore. The Habs are playing great this year, and he is a big reason for it. Luongo is great, but I just cant fathom giving the Vezina to a guy with a losing record.
I cannot fathom how anyone can say Luongo should even be mentioned as a candidate, let alone winner of the Vezina.. Turco has better numbers in every catagory except Sav. pct.. and no body mentions Marty.. He was screwed out of it last year and now almost no mention at all.. How can you consider a guy with a losing record.... I think Kevin Weeks should get as much consideration as Luongo.. He had better save pct. #'s and fewer losses.. No who would agree with that??? No one , so how does Luongo get the nod???? On save pct. alone???

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Old
03-18-2004, 10:52 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyhomer99
I cannot fathom how anyone can say Luongo should even be mentioned as a candidate, let alone winner of the Vezina.. Turco has better numbers in every catagory except Sav. pct.. and no body mentions Marty.. He was screwed out of it last year and now almost no mention at all.. How can you consider a guy with a losing record.... I think Kevin Weeks should get as much consideration as Luongo.. He had better save pct. #'s and fewer losses.. No who would agree with that??? No one , so how does Luongo get the nod???? On save pct. alone???
Luongo is great. Dont sell him short. But yeah, the only number he has that really jumps off the page is Save%.

And over the course of my 3-4 months on these boards, I have come to 2 conclusions:

1) People over analyze EVERYTHING, and simply want to be argumentative on here.
2) Turco gets no respect. Some idiot didnt even have him in his Top 20 active goalies list. I thought maybe he just forgot to put him on there? Nope, he simply doesnt think Turco is in the Top 20.

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Old
03-18-2004, 11:33 AM
  #65
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Turco is awesome regardless of how you want to look at the stats, but the fact remains that Luongo holds his team in every night facing 30-40-50 shots. Turco sees 20 shots a night on a regular basis and it is extremely rare he sees anything more than 30 (only 5 times, with a record of 1-2-3) When faced with 27 shots or more, Turco's record 'improves' to 3-3-5...11 whole games getting blasted by the opposition.

Luongo's season has consisted of:
3 games with 49+ shots (and he won all 3)
14 games with 40-48 shots
Another 28 games with 30-39 shots

45 games he saw 30 shots or more and his record was 20-11-11-3 in those games. Pretty damn impressive. He's got my vote for the Vezina (awarded to the Goaltender best at his position, btw)


Last edited by o-dog: 03-18-2004 at 11:50 AM.
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Old
03-18-2004, 12:19 PM
  #66
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Hart: Martin St. Louis
Finalist: Jerome Iginla, Markus Naslund

Vezina: Martin Broduer
Finalist: Roberto Luongo, Andrew Raycroft

Calder: Andrew Raycroft
Finalist: Michael Ryder, Trent Hunter

Norris: Zdeno Chara
Finalist: Scott Niedermayer, Chris Pronger

Selke: Patrik Elias
Finalist: Kris Draper, David Legwand

Adams: Darryl Sutter
Finalist: John Tortorella , Andy Murray

Lady Byng: I never have a clue

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Old
03-18-2004, 02:50 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odiedog
Turco is awesome regardless of how you want to look at the stats, but the fact remains that Luongo holds his team in every night facing 30-40-50 shots. Turco sees 20 shots a night on a regular basis and it is extremely rare he sees anything more than 30 (only 5 times, with a record of 1-2-3) When faced with 27 shots or more, Turco's record 'improves' to 3-3-5...11 whole games getting blasted by the opposition.

Luongo's season has consisted of:
3 games with 49+ shots (and he won all 3)
14 games with 40-48 shots
Another 28 games with 30-39 shots

45 games he saw 30 shots or more and his record was 20-11-11-3 in those games. Pretty damn impressive. He's got my vote for the Vezina (awarded to the Goaltender best at his position, btw)
I am not sure how having a sub .500 record, on a losing team is exactly holding your team in every night.. But if everyone is going to give to Luongo, soley based on his save pct.... If he has such a record, then it must be the games under 30 shots that is kicking his ass.. If 11 of his 28 losses were games in which he faced 30 or more shots, then 17 must have come from games facing less than 30 shots...Hope you guys never really get to vote for an award...


Last edited by hockeyhomer99: 03-18-2004 at 03:11 PM.
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Old
03-20-2004, 07:19 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odiedog
Turco is awesome regardless of how you want to look at the stats, but the fact remains that Luongo holds his team in every night facing 30-40-50 shots. Turco sees 20 shots a night on a regular basis and it is extremely rare he sees anything more than 30 (only 5 times, with a record of 1-2-3) When faced with 27 shots or more, Turco's record 'improves' to 3-3-5...11 whole games getting blasted by the opposition.

Luongo's season has consisted of:
3 games with 49+ shots (and he won all 3)
14 games with 40-48 shots
Another 28 games with 30-39 shots

45 games he saw 30 shots or more and his record was 20-11-11-3 in those games. Pretty damn impressive. He's got my vote for the Vezina (awarded to the Goaltender best at his position, btw)
Hold it!!! Better make that 20-12-11-3 ..He just gave up 2 in the last 2 minutes to lose to Atlanta..

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Old
03-20-2004, 11:24 AM
  #69
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Holding his team in means he gives them a chance to win every night.

a team outshot 54-24 should not win. Yet, The Panthers beat the Islanders the other night 6-4, having been outshot by 30. The Fact that the panthers give up so many shots are a testament to the fact that on ost nights, the other team dominates the panthers, and they the only reason they arent in the ovechkin sweepstakes is because of Luongo's Play.

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Old
03-20-2004, 12:49 PM
  #70
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Calder - Raycroft, BOS (Hunter, Ryder)
Hart - St. Louis, TAM (Luongo, Naslund)
Vezina - Turco, DAL (Brodeur, Luongo)
Selke - Draper, DET (Handzus, Madden)
Norris - Blake, COL (Chara, Ohlund)
Adams - Murray, LA (Hartley, Trotz)
Lady Byng - Richards, TAM
Pearson - St. Louis, TAM (Luongo, Brodeur)
Art Ross - St. Louis, TAM (Sakic, Naslund)
Richard - Nash, CBJ (Kovalchuk, Sakic)
Masterson - Souray, MTL (Barney, Yzerman)

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Old
03-20-2004, 01:03 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spayzee
Nash will win Rocket Richard, come on people, where's the respect?

You all put Kovalchuk down, talk about a "We hate Nash" board.


People hate Nash because they don't think he will make up a 2-goal difference in the last 8 games of the season, with a red-hot Jarome Iginla breathing down his neck no less? Try again, most people here love Rick Nash. To place him below Kovalchuk or Iginla or Hedjuk or whoever does not imply that anyone hates him.

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Old
03-20-2004, 01:18 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Puddy
Why do many think Chara will win? The guy, or Frankenstein's monster perhaps, only has one more point than Sheldon Souray who hasn't played since Feb. 10. When has anyone voting cared how well defensively a defenseman has performed in the past? Are you then going by Chara's +/- as the offensive stat that will bring him the Norris? Chara is 17th in scoring among defensemen. Sergei Gonchar is first

Chara is tied for second in GOALS though (he just has fewer assists). He also has a LARGE lead in +/- over any of the other names being brandied about (Niedermyer is the next closest, at +20 compared to Charas +34). He has more goals than any other potential nominee (besides the longshot Souray, who he is tied with). He also has WAAAAYYYYY more PIM's than any of the other top defenders. He also has a presense in a game that no other Norris Calibre defenseman has. And, before the end of the regular season, he may start taking faceoffs :p

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Old
03-21-2004, 01:52 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Egil
Chara is tied for second in GOALS though (he just has fewer assists). He also has a LARGE lead in +/- over any of the other names being brandied about (Niedermyer is the next closest, at +20 compared to Charas +34). He has more goals than any other potential nominee (besides the longshot Souray, who he is tied with). He also has WAAAAYYYYY more PIM's than any of the other top defenders. He also has a presense in a game that no other Norris Calibre defenseman has. And, before the end of the regular season, he may start taking faceoffs :p
That means Patrice Brisebois is third in defenseman +/-?!?!?!

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Old
03-21-2004, 09:58 AM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand
Luongo has an excellent shot at vezina, and may even be the favorite at this point. But in no way, shape, or form is he even something close to a hart candidate.

I agree. I don't even think he should win the vezina but mentioning him as the leaque mvp is outrageous. I was surprised so many people overwhelmingly picked him for the vezina on this thread so I guess maybe he will get it. Luongo is good and he may turn into a dominant tender but he shouldn't get the vezina just because he faces a lot of shots every night, stops a good number of them and still loses.

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Old
03-21-2004, 10:40 AM
  #75
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I'll list who I think should win and in (parantethis who will win).

Calder - Raycroft (Ryder)
Hart - Turco (St.Louis)
Vezina - Luongo (Brodeur)
Selke - Draper (Draper)
Norris - Schneider (Blake)
Adams - Murray (Tortorella)
Lady Byng - Lidstrom (Richards)
Art Ross - St. Louis
Richard - Kovalchuk

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