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Old
03-16-2004, 12:51 AM
  #26
imox77
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NY Post: DEAD MEN SKATING
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RJ Umberger, the 16th overall selection of the 2001 Entry Draft whose rights the Rangers obtained from Vancouver in the Martin Rucinsky trade, will begin skating with the team today in a look-see that will last through the weekend before reporting to Hartford on an informal tryout basis.

The 21-year-old, 6-1, 200-pound center, who left Ohio State after last season and has been sitting out the year following a negotiating impasse with Vancouver GM Brian Burke, will become an unrestricted free agent if he's not signed before June 2. Should that occur, the Rangers would get the 16th pick in this year's second round as compensation.

"I know I'm only a couple of months away [from free agency], but I'd rather be able to get something worked out here," the Pittsburgh native said. "This is probably one of the best places in the NHL right now for a young player to come into, and I'm excited to be a part of it.

"Everybody is entitled to have an opinion of me for not signing, but for those who question my character, I have a lot of pride in myself and how I play, and hopefully my play will be able to change some minds."

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03-16-2004, 05:21 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr7andcounting
Why would Sather signing him right away make Burke/Canucks look bad? And if Sather waited 2 weeks, how would that help?

It doesn't make much sense that waiting to sign Umberger would prevent this from becoming a precedent for prospects who hold out and then get signed by a bigger market. If the Rangers do sign Umberger people aren't going to remember when they signed him or how long it took, rather that it happened. Future prospects holding out will still see being traded to a big market an option, wether or not Umberger is signed quickly.

I honestly think that if Umberger did say in the middle of last week that he expects a deal to be done in the next few days, which obviously it hasn't, that Sather might not sign him at all. Everything points to Sather loading up picks in order to trade up in the draft this year, as 4 or 5 2nd rounders this year doesn't do a team much good in a weak draft. Sather might actually be stupid enough to want the 46th overall pick(which we would get as compensation for not signing Umberger) instead of Umberger because the pick may have more value to a team like Pitt who wouldn't be able to sign Umberger if they traded for him in a deal where the Rangers moved up to the 1st overall spot.

If Sather ends up taking compensation instead of signing Umberger, and uses the pick in a deal to Pitt then I don't blame him. This would be a smart move ONLY if Sather is already sure that he can make a deal with Pitt. Otherwise we are going to lose a solid player and get nothing but **** back with a mid 2nd rounder.
Sorry, but (A) Pitt can afford to sign Umberger, and (B) what else would NYR throw in with that 46th pick to get Pitts top pick? One thing that I can assure you of, if Pitt does indeed end up with the top pick, then it is going to take one hell of an offer to pry it away from them. And it is going to be all about picks and prospects.

Your team is starting it's own version of a rebuilding mode. I can't see Sather giving up a ton of what he just got (and it would take ALOT of what he just got) to move up in the draft.

Instead, you will likely sign Umberger, draft one of Olesz, Malkin or Barker and you will be off to a great start in replinishing your once bare prospect cupboard.

All of this talk of Pitt giving away PROSPECTS because they cant afford them is getting old (and I am not singling anybody out here). They gave away the players that they needed to in order to survive both until the new CBA arrives, and a lengthy lockout if needed.
If Pitt makes a deal concerning a prospect, it is going to be a hockey deal, not another financial one as we have seen in the past.

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Old
03-16-2004, 05:26 AM
  #28
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So my question is, if he is signed to a tryout contract, does that mean that the Rangers have him for good? What if he signs the tryout deal, and is unable to come to terms with the team on a regular deal before June 1st? Does he become a UFA then?

I realize this is speculative and hypothetical, but it's still a legitimate question.

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03-16-2004, 07:10 AM
  #29
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Blueshirts face deadline on prospect

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ho...p-151651c.html

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Old
03-16-2004, 07:18 AM
  #30
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Veeeeerrryyy interesting....and right exactly on topic as well...The exact sentiments echoed by some in this thread. Good find KING.

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Old
03-16-2004, 07:30 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stardog
Veeeeerrryyy interesting....and right exactly on topic as well...The exact sentiments echoed by some in this thread. Good find KING.
No Promblem. I thought it was a good article also.

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Old
03-16-2004, 11:06 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stardog
Sorry, but (A) Pitt can afford to sign Umberger, and (B) what else would NYR throw in with that 46th pick to get Pitts top pick? One thing that I can assure you of, if Pitt does indeed end up with the top pick, then it is going to take one hell of an offer to pry it away from them. And it is going to be all about picks and prospects.

Your team is starting it's own version of a rebuilding mode. I can't see Sather giving up a ton of what he just got (and it would take ALOT of what he just got) to move up in the draft.

Instead, you will likely sign Umberger, draft one of Olesz, Malkin or Barker and you will be off to a great start in replinishing your once bare prospect cupboard.

All of this talk of Pitt giving away PROSPECTS because they cant afford them is getting old (and I am not singling anybody out here). They gave away the players that they needed to in order to survive both until the new CBA arrives, and a lengthy lockout if needed.
If Pitt makes a deal concerning a prospect, it is going to be a hockey deal, not another financial one as we have seen in the past.

I'm sure Pitt could sign him he's only 21 working on his first NHL contract. Obviously I have no idea what kind of contract he's seeking, but my point was that if Vancouver couldn't sign him because he was asking too much for what they wanted to pay a guy like him, then maybe Pitt wouldn't want to deal with it. Not saying Pitt can't afford it, but maybe they don't want to pay a 21 year old who's already holding out because there's a greater chance that in 3 years he may do it again. Pitt might see more value in some later picks that they don't have to pay for another 3 years.

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Old
03-16-2004, 11:07 AM
  #33
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One of the papers said he's looking for the rookie salary cap max at about $1.3 million.

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03-16-2004, 11:35 AM
  #34
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Whatever he's asking-he'll get it.
The Rangers stole this guy and Sather will sign him anytime now.
4th line next year:
RJ Umberger-Garth Murray-Josef Balej

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Old
03-16-2004, 11:39 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wannaberangerGM
Whatever he's asking-he'll get it.
The Rangers stole this guy and Sather will sign him anytime now.
4th line next year:
RJ Umberger-Garth Murray-Josef Balej
Cripes I hope that's not the 4th line! That role may be fine for Murray, but Balej needs to be on a higher line and Umberger should be as well.

Any AHL scrubs can play the 4th line next year. The ice time for the top lines should be given to kids we want to develop like Balej and Umberger.

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Old
03-16-2004, 11:45 AM
  #36
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Tell me you don't think Sather is going to spend Dolan's money on some free agents next season. If there is a next season.

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Old
03-16-2004, 11:47 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy
http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey...orts-headlines

Umberger arrives. R.J. Umberger, the 21-year-old center acquired from the Canucks in the Martin Rucinsky deal, joined the team and will practice with the Rangers this week. Umberger, the 16th pick in the 2001 draft, will become an unrestricted free agent if the Rangers do not sign him before June 1. His agent, Brian Lawton, said discussions on a contract with the Rangers have not progressed, but Umberger said after Monday night's game that he is hopeful to sign.

This is probably one of the best places in the NHL right now where young guys can come and play," said the 6-2, 210-pound Pittsburgh native, who may join Hartford on a tryout contract next week.


Didn't your sources inform you Umberger has joined the Rangers?
As I said last night, Umberger and his people were VERY quiet and not talking to anyone from Thursday of last week through my post. I said I thought this was odd considering his comments on Wed about the Rangers. Additionally, I said last a few days back that Sather had thrown this "Tryout" contract into the mix AFTER the trade was made. Lawton/Umberger had no inclination about this on Deadline day.

Finally, in all my posts on this subject, I did say I would be surprised if he wasn't with the team within a week of deadline day. I was surprised it lasted this long. That said, it does give some weight to the first "theory" that i heard yesterday that Sather/Burke had an agreement that if he was to be signed, it couldn't be for a 10-14 days until after the trade was made.

I am not Glen Sather - I cannot explain the rationale behind some actions. All I can add are things that I hear - which sometimes are just the opinions of those who might know, othertimes they are facts.

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Old
03-16-2004, 11:49 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr7andcounting
Why would Sather signing him right away make Burke/Canucks look bad? And if Sather waited 2 weeks, how would that help?

It doesn't make much sense that waiting to sign Umberger would prevent this from becoming a precedent for prospects who hold out and then get signed by a bigger market. If the Rangers do sign Umberger people aren't going to remember when they signed him or how long it took, rather that it happened. Future prospects holding out will still see being traded to a big market an option, wether or not Umberger is signed quickly.

I honestly think that if Umberger did say in the middle of last week that he expects a deal to be done in the next few days, which obviously it hasn't, that Sather might not sign him at all. Everything points to Sather loading up picks in order to trade up in the draft this year, as 4 or 5 2nd rounders this year doesn't do a team much good in a weak draft. Sather might actually be stupid enough to want the 46th overall pick(which we would get as compensation for not signing Umberger) instead of Umberger because the pick may have more value to a team like Pitt who wouldn't be able to sign Umberger if they traded for him in a deal where the Rangers moved up to the 1st overall spot.

If Sather ends up taking compensation instead of signing Umberger, and uses the pick in a deal to Pitt then I don't blame him. This would be a smart move ONLY if Sather is already sure that he can make a deal with Pitt. Otherwise we are going to lose a solid player and get nothing but **** back with a mid 2nd rounder.
Pittsburgh could sign Umberger and indeed, wants him.

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Old
03-16-2004, 11:56 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy
Nashville does not have a second round pick in 2004 or in 2005.Both second round picks were traded to Chicago for Steve Sullivan.

Another west coast team was interested in Petr Nedved besides Edmonton.That team was offering a low second round pick while Edmonton was dangling a high second round pick which is the compensatory pick Edmonton will receive for losing Brian Leetch in free agency.That second round pick is 20 plus picks higher than the other second round pick they were offered for Nedved.
I don't think I mentioend what round the pick was nor did I saw the Nashville was the only team interested in Nedved. There were several teams that inquired. Nashville was one of the more serious.

The picks I was referring to were those trade to Minnesota for Bombadir and Zholtok.

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Old
03-16-2004, 01:13 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Park #2
As I said last night, Umberger and his people were VERY quiet and not talking to anyone from Thursday of last week through my post. I said I thought this was odd considering his comments on Wed about the Rangers. Additionally, I said last a few days back that Sather had thrown this "Tryout" contract into the mix AFTER the trade was made. Lawton/Umberger had no inclination about this on Deadline day.

Finally, in all my posts on this subject, I did say I would be surprised if he wasn't with the team within a week of deadline day. I was surprised it lasted this long. That said, it does give some weight to the first "theory" that i heard yesterday that Sather/Burke had an agreement that if he was to be signed, it couldn't be for a 10-14 days until after the trade was made.

I am not Glen Sather - I cannot explain the rationale behind some actions. All I can add are things that I hear - which sometimes are just the opinions of those who might know, othertimes they are facts.
Help me out here - why wouldn't the Rangers wait to sign him until after he is a free agent. Then they get the low 2nd round pick and can sign him as a free agent anyway. Surely if they want him they won't be overbid and it has to be a great place for a young player right now??

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Old
03-16-2004, 03:00 PM
  #41
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Could be they don't want to risk losing him, or more likely, not wanting to invite a NHL investigation into the timing of the sigining. Also could be that Sather really DOES want him signed, and as Park says, is honoring a "gentleman's" agreement with Burke. I hesitate to use the word gentleman to refer to either Burke or Sather, but...


Last edited by Forechecker: 03-16-2004 at 03:09 PM.
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03-16-2004, 11:09 PM
  #42
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http://www.nj.com/rangers/ledger/ind...1433175220.xml

I thought Don Maloney's quote was a little interesting....

"It's not a situation where we don't want to sign him, but at the end of the day, they want first-round money," Maloney said. "Whether we're prepared to go that far is another story."

who knows how this one will end up...

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03-17-2004, 01:30 AM
  #43
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3/17 NY Post: Rangers Look at Umberger
Quote:
"I enjoyed every second of the practice," said the unsigned Umberger, following his first workout with the team. "It felt really good to be a part of an organized practice and get some work in."
Quote:
There are questions about his work ethics and salary demands, which are currently too pricey for the Rangers. Assistant GM Don Maloney, who is very high on Umberger, watched the 21-year-old at practice yesterday and said, "[Umberger] has a lot of talent . . . we'll see what happens."
Quote:
"I want to show them that I'm a hard-working, blue-collar kind of a guy," Umberger said. "That's what they brought me in to see. To make sure I have a positive attitude."
Quote:
"It doesn't matter, as long as I'm playing hockey," Umberger said.


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Old
03-17-2004, 02:54 AM
  #44
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I just love how money has all of a sudden become a concern in these parts. Especially when we're talking about a few hundred thousand here. This is chump change around here. Unreal.

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Old
03-17-2004, 02:57 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cagney
I just love how money has all of a sudden become a concern in these parts. Especially when we're talking about a few hundred thousand here. This is chump change around here. Unreal.
Unfortunately the Rangers get picky over chump change. Remember Pisa? That doesnt mean they find it difficult to shell out massive amounts of money for big names though...

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Old
03-17-2004, 05:43 AM
  #46
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Maloney is an idiot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fotiu22
http://www.nj.com/rangers/ledger/ind...1433175220.xml

I thought Don Maloney's quote was a little interesting....

"It's not a situation where we don't want to sign him, but at the end of the day, they want first-round money," Maloney said. "Whether we're prepared to go that far is another story."

who knows how this one will end up...

He wants 1st round money, because he was a first rounder you dolt!!

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Old
03-17-2004, 06:47 AM
  #47
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Lol...sounds like the Zidlicky situation all over again. Instead of forking over some extra $$$ to bring in a young albeit unproven (at NHL level) player, they will save a penny and then throw away a hefty contract for a has been NHLer. Sounds like the Rangers for sure

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Old
03-17-2004, 07:23 AM
  #48
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Rangers Look At Umberger

http://nypost.com/sports/rangers/17250.htm

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Old
03-17-2004, 08:06 AM
  #49
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I think Park#2 theory has some credence. Why would Umberger come in and practice on a tryout contract when all he has to do is wait until June 2nd and sign with whomever he wants? Just because the Rangers have exclusive rights to him doesn't mean they dictate what he does. He could tell the Ranger brass to pound salt, I am a 1st rounder and I want 1st round money.

Something strange is going on here. The kid wants to play, he wants to be paid what his drafted position dictates and he is on a tryout, practice contract.

Either he has agreed in prinicpal to a deal, that is being kept quiet for now or this kid is trying to show all his distractors that it isn't about money, its principal and he is willing to show by practicing on a tryout contract that he is worth 1st round money, doesn't have a primmadonna attitude and is willing to work for the contract.

If thats the case, I really like his approach and attitude.

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Old
03-17-2004, 08:40 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L.I.RangerFan
I think Park#2 theory has some credence. Why would Umberger come in and practice on a tryout contract when all he has to do is wait until June 2nd and sign with whomever he wants?
That plan could backfire too. If Burke and Sather both say, "this kid's not worth what he's asking", then I think most other GM's might be weary of shelling out big cash for him.

Maloney's just posturing. He's letting Umberger know he wants to see some results over the next week and that he's not going to fork over a contract JUST because RJ was a first rounder.

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