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Article on Timmins who work hard to draft french canadian

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Old
03-25-2009, 02:23 PM
  #26
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Recognizing the differences in lenses the organization looks at their property, Lehoux is a little long in the tooth... In their defence, for better or worse, they have longer term committments to the Maxwells/Chipchuras... sort of like a marriage. We all know that.

However this point aside. With the success, this Peverly guy is producing ... He was waiver fodder. Even our very own Mighty Metropolit took the long way to the NHL. You really don't know what you have if you don't give someone an opportunity. I think it's perfectly reasonable to question why Lehoux didn't get a shot. Who knows what he could do?

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03-25-2009, 02:25 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet Robert View Post
I was guilty of a lack of fact checking myself because if Timmins was in Moncton last night he wasn't watching any QMJHL hockey. Game 3 was last night in PEI.

Like I said though, if he is watching that series, it probably means he has two of my favourite Q prospects on his radar, and I'm happy to hear that.


Either way, I think the criticisms that Timmins doesn't draft enough Q/Francophone players come from a faction that doesn't follow hockey too closely. (Think R. Tremblay and his ilk.)

2003: 4 of 11 picks from the QMJHL
2004: 2 of 9 picks from the QMJHL
2005: 3 of 7 picks from the QMJHL or Q born player.
2006: 1 of 6 picks from the QMJHL
2007: 1 of 9 picks from the QMJHL
2008: 0 of 5 picks from the QMJHL

So while it's true that over the past two years he has neglected the Q, it's also true that those have been two relatively bad years for the Q in terms of producing talent.

This year there is a solid group of prospects coming out of the Q, especially on defence, and while we don't have a ton of picks, I'm sure Timmins is looking closely at the talent coming of that league this year.
1 1st round pick from quebec in 25 years, that's the stat that bothers me the most

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03-25-2009, 02:26 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
People criticizing Timmins and our recent draft picks reassures me that we definitely live in the dumbest city with an NHL team bar none.
I think not questionning is much dumber than questionning

at least by questionning I admit a part of my ignorance

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03-25-2009, 02:27 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Well true as far as quantity and depth. He's probably the best one that has the ability to determine who will reach the NHL. What the Habs needs at this moment are players that not only can reach the NHL but can play a significant role. I believe that's what he did when he drafted Subban. I'M convince that he'll play a significant role and Timmins believed enough in his ability to do so even if he was picked in the 2nd round. Same could be said for Price, still AS OF NOW, that remains to be seen. But the top quality prospects, playing as such (Price is a quality prospect but is not playing as such), are not in the NHL yet while others are, and I'm not necessarily talking about Ovechkin, Malkin and such who Timmins had no access to.

That's my concern with Timmins.
You can draft the most interesting prospect, the one every team would pick first.
After drafting him, it's not Timmins's job to insure a good development. That's up to the coaches and BG/Brisebois to make sure their prospects have a good entourage.

Granted, Timmins can do mistake, every team does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FSU Seminoles View Post
sorry, there's no doubt in my mind that Giroux and Perron were solid picks at these spots
You can nitpick, I was talking in general.

Like I said, every scout makes mistakes. All in all, he's done a great job considering the position we've drafted in.

Our drafting is seriously the least of our problems right now.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 03-25-2009 at 04:02 PM.
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03-25-2009, 02:30 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Le Tricolore View Post
Sergei Kostitsyn, Andrei Markov, Jaroslav Halak, etc. beg to differ.
Gregory Stewart, Matt D'Agostini, Mark Streit, Mikhail Grabovski (well, that last one maybe not as much with the Habs, lol).

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03-25-2009, 02:31 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSU Seminoles View Post
Brunet corrected his mistakes in another post

I may not have Timmins' understanding, but I'm certainly not the only one questioning drafting players from high schools or prep schools. Highly competent scouts in other sports stay away from high schools and prep schools as much as possible.
Highly competent scouts in the NHL stay away from the Q. In fact, 7 teams do not have scouts in the Q.

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03-25-2009, 02:33 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSU Seminoles View Post
it's all fun that Timmis went after Cédrick Desjardins, David Desharnais, Thomas Beauregard and Frédéric St-Denis. I love Cédrick he won the Remparts a mem cup, but in the end we all know he won't get a shot.

This year the best center in hamilton is Lehoux and he didn't get the call this season, but Chichura and Maxwell did because they're high draft picks of the Canadiens.
Might it not also be because Chip and Maxwell aren't afraid of their shadows?

That's an unfair crack at Lehoux who's been an awesome addition to the Dogs, but what you're suggesting is whackey.

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Old
03-25-2009, 02:34 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You can nitpick, I was talking in general.

Like I said, every scout makes mistakes. All in all, he's done a great job considering the position we've drafted in.

Our drafting is seriously the least of our problems right now.
fine, but I just want to make sure that nobody in their right mind wants Q players drafted for every round. Most of the questionable picks like Giroux and Perron are obviously nitpicks because they were selected right after the Canadiens picked. I won't nitpick not picking Bergeron in the first round when nobody saw him there and I won't ask for an unknown unranked guy to be drafted in the first round only to have a quebec player selected in the first round. I think there's a gap between 1 player selected in the first round from the Q and in 25 years and picking 1 every year.

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Old
03-25-2009, 02:35 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Quiet Robert View Post
I was guilty of a lack of fact checking myself because if Timmins was in Moncton last night he wasn't watching any QMJHL hockey. Game 3 was last night in PEI.

Like I said though, if he is watching that series, it probably means he has two of my favourite Q prospects on his radar, and I'm happy to hear that.
I know that the Habs had people in SJ last night to watch Saint John play Cape Breton, don't know if Timmins was there or not. I tuned into the radio after the game and they were talking about the scouts from Montreal being there and Meyer playing an absolutely atrocious game between the pipes. I think he let in 4 goals on 13 shots or something.

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Old
03-25-2009, 02:35 PM
  #35
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can someone please provide a tiny translation?

Or does the title basically say what the article states? Timmins is looking to draft some french Canadiens? Huh??

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Old
03-25-2009, 02:36 PM
  #36
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Why is it always about language hidden or not ?

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Old
03-25-2009, 02:37 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zurg999 View Post
Might it not be because Chip and Maxwell also aren't afraid of their shadows?

That's not fair to Lehoux who's been an awesome addition to the Dogs, but what you're suggesting is way out of whack.
as Whitesnake pointed out, Danny Dubé thought Lehoux looked better than Maxwell and Chipchura when he saw them play and Danny isn't one to favor quebec players blindly. So I'm not sure it's out of whack.

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03-25-2009, 02:38 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSU Seminoles View Post
as Whitesnake pointed out, Danny Dubé thought Lehoux looked better than Maxwell and Chipchura when he saw them play and Danny isn't one to favor quebec players blindly. So I'm not sure it's out of whack.
HE BASED THIS ON ONE GAME HE SAW IN MONTREAL ! DUBE KNOWS **** ABOUT THE BULLDOGS !!!

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Old
03-25-2009, 02:39 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSU Seminoles View Post
as Whitesnake pointed out, Danny Dubé thought Lehoux looked better than Maxwell and Chipchura when he saw them play and Danny isn't one to favor quebec players blindly. So I'm not sure it's out of whack.
Danny Dubé also doesn't see the Dogs play every single night nor does he follow the team.

They also maybe wanted to give a chance to Chipper seeing as he came up last year and give Maxwell some NHL experience.

Like I said, Maxwell has a better pt ration and none of Chipper/Maxwell/Lehoux was our solution. To dwell on the matter is a sign of boredom more than anything.

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03-25-2009, 02:42 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSU Seminoles View Post
This year the best center in hamilton is Lehoux and he didn't get the call this season, but Chichura and Maxwell did because they're high draft picks of the Canadiens.
I agree (thought I highly doubt it's for the same reasons as you). The Habs should have seen right away that Maxwell wasn't ready for the big team. I don't care that Lehoux doesn't have a future with the team, he was the right choice to fill in. That's been a major problem with the Habs this year - they never firmly decided whether this was a year to compete, or a development year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FSU Seminoles View Post
1 1st round pick from quebec in 25 years, that's the stat that bothers me the most
You can't hold this regime responsible for anything prior to 2003. Since then, they have picked three players from the Q in the second round, and they traded their top pick in 2008 for a Quebecer.

And they have no responsibility to compromise their draft standards to reach for Quebecers. Giroux and Perron would have been great picks, but they didn't have the qualities our scouts look for (I know Timmins didn't like Giroux's skating). As long as they keep drafting more future NHL'ers than other teams, there's no reason to get upset about those standards.


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Old
03-25-2009, 02:42 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSU Seminoles View Post
as Whitesnake pointed out, Danny Dubé thought Lehoux looked better than Maxwell and Chipchura when he saw them play and Danny isn't one to favor quebec players blindly. So I'm not sure it's out of whack.
Why don't you come out and say it's all about language/birthright? It's so obvious that's what you're skirting around anyway.

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Old
03-25-2009, 02:43 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
People criticizing Timmins and our recent draft picks reassures me that we definitely live in the dumbest city with an NHL team bar none.
Well I think it's easier to criticize recent draft picks 'cause at this point it could go either way. It's picks that were chosen between 2003 and 2005 that we have a much better idea if they were good picks on how they'll develop.

I don't agree with your statement though. Any fanbase that takes the time to dissect and have threads about picks and drafts, makes me think we know a little bit more than fanbases who don't even care for it.....Not caring doesn't make you more intelligent. I think that most people agree that Timmins does a fine job. Difference is that between the people who thinks he's god himself and others who might find him a little more human....Nobody can discuss the depth that he's giving us....but the lack of top-end pick has to be taken into consideration. And again, I'm not talking about guys being picked top 5, not Timmins fault if we don't suck as much.

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Old
03-25-2009, 02:43 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zurg999 View Post
Why don't you come out and say it's all about language/birthright? It's so obvious that's what you're skirting around anyway.
absolutely not, if you want to generalize it that way it's fine for you but it's really not what I'm hopnig for

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Danny Dubé also doesn't see the Dogs play every single night nor does he follow the team.

They also maybe wanted to give a chance to Chipper seeing as he came up last year and give Maxwell some NHL experience.

Like I said, Maxwell has a better pt ration and none of Chipper/Maxwell/Lehoux was our solution. To dwell on the matter is a sign of boredom more than anything.
everybody's entitled to their opinion and you can have yours, but Dubé doesn't have to see a player play 25 games to make his mind up and I'm sure he saw them play at training camp also. Again, if you read some on scouting you'll likely read that scouts don't put much into seeing 5 or 25 games of a player, especially at Lehoux's age.


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Old
03-25-2009, 02:44 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSU Seminoles
1 1st round pick from quebec in 25 years, that's the stat that bothers me the most.
Like I said, and I'm not trying to offend or anything, but that's a silly argument that likely comes from not following the draft too closely.

The only recent case I can think of is 2006. I think you can make a legitimate case for Giroux over Fischer. But you can also make a case for Berglund and Foligno. 3 years out and still a long way from making NHL impact is not reassuring from Fischer, but I still think he'll help this team down the road. That said, there's no doubt that at this point in time, Giroux would have been a much better pick.

But more to the point, I'm going to try and show you why your logic is flawed. Go through the draft and find Q players that the Habs passed up on in the 1st round.

2008: Nope
2007: Argue Perron all you want, I think Pacioretty was the right choice.
2006: You have a case
2005: Nope
2004: Nope
2003: Nope
2002: Nope
2001: Nope
2000: Nope
1999: Nope
1998: Right league, wrong guy.
1997: Nope
1996: You have a case with Briere
1995: If you're going to argue Giguere, you might as well argue Iginla
1994: Nope
1993: Nope
1992: Nope
1991: Nope

You simply don't have a case. In the past 18 drafts, I've shown you 2 example of the Habs missing out on a QMJHL player when they looked elsewhere. Pretty brutal average if you ask me. What kind of scout would look at those averages and conclude that the Habs should draft more often from that league?

Again, if you're paying relatively close attention to the draft, you're not making these complaints.

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Old
03-25-2009, 02:48 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by FSU Seminoles View Post
1 1st round pick from quebec in 25 years, that's the stat that bothers me the most
who the **** cares where they're from?

Holy ****..

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Old
03-25-2009, 02:49 PM
  #46
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i also thinks its the way to do of the habs, no matter how great you develop or perform everything is based on how high you've been drafted
Your post has fail written all over it. Do some research before you put your foot in your cake hole.

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03-25-2009, 02:49 PM
  #47
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HE BASED THIS ON ONE GAME HE SAW IN MONTREAL ! DUBE KNOWS **** ABOUT THE BULLDOGS !!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Danny Dubé also doesn't see the Dogs play every single night nor does he follow the team.

They also maybe wanted to give a chance to Chipper seeing as he came up last year and give Maxwell some NHL experience.

Like I said, Maxwell has a better pt ration and none of Chipper/Maxwell/Lehoux was our solution. To dwell on the matter is a sign of boredom more than anything.
Again, nobody is saying that Lehoux should then be on top of the prospect chart 'cause he played 1 game better than the other. It's just a question of not giving him his chance to see what he could do. And honestly, personnally, I'm not even making this a language issue 'cause I feel the same for Glumac.

But clearly at one point, when Maxwell came back, did anybody thought that he was playing good. Not only he wasn't playing good but he was a liability out there way more than guys like Pacioretty, Stewart and D'Agostini who are either not here anymore or not playing. And that was during the time where we had tons of injuries. Maxwell could have been sent down earlier, and you could have called up Lehoux for at least 2 games. Just that, just to see what he could do to help you out while we had 75 players on the injury list. That's all.

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Old
03-25-2009, 02:52 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet Robert View Post
Like I said, and I'm not trying to offend or anything, but that's a silly argument that likely comes from not following the draft too closely.

The only recent case I can think of is 2006. I think you can make a legitimate case for Giroux over Fischer. But you can also make a case for Berglund and Foligno. 3 years out and still a long way from making NHL impact is not reassuring from Fischer, but I still think he'll help this team down the road. That said, there's no doubt that at this point in time, Giroux would have been a much better pick.

But more to the point, I'm going to try and show you why your logic is flawed. Go through the draft and find Q players that the Habs passed up on in the 1st round.

2008: Nope
2007: Argue Perron all you want, I think Pacioretty was the right choice.
2006: You have a case
2005: Nope
2004: Nope
2003: Nope
2002: Nope
2001: Nope
2000: Nope
1999: Nope
1998: Right league, wrong guy.
1997: Nope
1996: You have a case with Briere
1995: If you're going to argue Giguere, you might as well argue Iginla
1994: Nope
1993: Nope
1992: Nope
1991: Nope

You simply don't have a case. In the past 18 drafts, I've shown you 2 example of the Habs missing out on a QMJHL player when they looked elsewhere. Pretty brutal average if you ask me. What kind of scout would look at those averages and conclude that the Habs should draft more often from that league?

Again, if you're paying relatively close attention to the draft, you're not making these complaints.

like I said, I don't want a first round pick from the Q but you did the work yourself with Perron, Giroux and so on. But get one once in a while when they're available. Then get some guys off waivers like Brière and Pominville and keep the good ones like Ribeiro and Beachemain and you have your core of french guys. I'm not asknig for 25 of them, only a few and important players not spot fillers like Dandenault.

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03-25-2009, 02:53 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSU Seminoles View Post
Brunet corrected his mistakes in another post

I may not have Timmins' understanding, but I'm certainly not the only one questioning drafting players from high schools or prep schools. Highly competent scouts in other sports stay away from high schools and prep schools as much as possible.
I don't get your point here. Can you clarify?

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03-25-2009, 02:56 PM
  #50
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I don't get your point here. Can you clarify?
players in high school have yet to face tough competition and they're much farther along in their development. You can look at the stats I posted and I think it correlates well. The only fact of having faced weaker competition plays a huge part in the evaluation of prospects. You can fall in love with a guy for his skills, attitude but more importantly the factor most important in the future of a player is the production given a level of competition. High schools are weaker than the Q and by far.

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