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Has team chemistry been disrupted?

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Old
03-26-2009, 12:08 PM
  #1
Ticonderoga
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Has team chemistry been disrupted?

Got this idea last night after we sorta fell on out faces in Pittsburgh.

Has the chemistry that we saw from the Flames before the trade deadline been damaged?

I cannot help but think that the Jokinen and Leopold trades although upgrades on paper have damaged the chemistry on our team? We look frustrated, desperate and lack that fun that the team had before hand.

I bring up the Stuart and Primeau trades as an example. Although losing Ferance and Kowbasew for these two appeared to be an upgrade the effect it had on team chemistry was apparent. Could this be a similar situation? Or perhaps the rumors of Jokinen being a distraction and detrimental to a winning environment have some truth to it?

Our record since the trade deadline has been 4-6


Last edited by Ticonderoga: 03-26-2009 at 05:08 PM. Reason: People are to sensitive
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Old
03-26-2009, 12:28 PM
  #2
Areid1990
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I think we will be fine once Borque and Bert get back.

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Old
03-26-2009, 12:49 PM
  #3
Northern Neighbour
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I think you're overreacting to one loss. The team played hard for 60 minutes and had a ton of scoring chances, but they didn't capitalize. They ran into a hot goaltender, and Fleury really was the difference in the game.

Since the trade deadline, the team has played well. Jokinen has played extremely well with Iginla. Leopold seems at home on the blueline regardless who his partner is - whether it's Phaneuf or Sarich.

Teams with poor chemistry also don't have games like they did against Detroit, coming from behind one game to beat them and then defeating them again at home. They also don't have tough, close games like they did against Pittsburgh or New Jersey. They don't score 6 goals like they did against Toronto.

Now if the effort wasn't there or that the entire team was struggling, then maybe you would have a point. However, the team has been playing fairly well lately, but they're not getting the results. If you're looking for explanations for the team's so-so record of late, you should start with injuries (for a couple of weeks, the team's entire 2nd line was injured), poor defensive-zone coverage (which has been a season-long issues), and subpar special teams.

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Old
03-26-2009, 01:32 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Neighbour View Post
I think you're overreacting to one loss. The team played hard for 60 minutes and had a ton of scoring chances, but they didn't capitalize. They ran into a hot goaltender, and Fleury really was the difference in the game.

Since the trade deadline, the team has played well. Jokinen has played extremely well with Iginla. Leopold seems at home on the blueline regardless who his partner is - whether it's Phaneuf or Sarich.

Teams with poor chemistry also don't have games like they did against Detroit, coming from behind one game to beat them and then defeating them again at home. They also don't have tough, close games like they did against Pittsburgh or New Jersey. They don't score 6 goals like they did against Toronto.

Now if the effort wasn't there or that the entire team was struggling, then maybe you would have a point. However, the team has been playing fairly well lately, but they're not getting the results. If you're looking for explanations for the team's so-so record of late, you should start with injuries (for a couple of weeks, the team's entire 2nd line was injured), poor defensive-zone coverage (which has been a season-long issues), and subpar special teams.
I agree with you 110%. Another thing to consider is that we have been on the road for what like 8 of our last 11 games.

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Old
03-26-2009, 01:49 PM
  #5
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Originally Posted by Areid1990 View Post
I think we will be fine once Borque and Bert get back.
To be honest if anything has upset the team chemistry I'd say it's these injuries to Bourque and Bertuzzi, not so much the acquisition of Jokinen and Leopold.

Once everyone is back and healthy then we can take a look but I'm thinking with those guys back the Flames will be just fine.

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Old
03-26-2009, 02:01 PM
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'fell on our faces last night'... I'm sorry but last night was far from falling on our faces... it was a hard fought loss nothing to be ashamed of with the exception of perhaps the PP... and that was happening long before the deadline

as for the team chemistry issue... Injuries, Injuries, Injuries... in that 4-6 stretch you bring up you have to consider neither Bourque or Bertuzzi played once... consider that Langkow missed 3 during that stretch... and Moss missed 1 of the games Langkow missed... you also have to consider that 7 of those games were played on the road... you have to consider great games by Brodeur, Lehtonen and Fleury... you have to consider McCrapelhinney started one of those games and Kipper has been allowing goals so soft Charmin should hire him as a sponsor

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Old
03-26-2009, 02:15 PM
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Ticonderoga
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Wowza I did not expect to get flamed so much, it was just a thought...That maybe deserved a little discussion, obviously I am wrong.

A sensitive bunch we are.

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Old
03-26-2009, 02:17 PM
  #8
Szechwan
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Maybe this is Jokinen's "character issues" that Gillis mentioned last summer.

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Old
03-26-2009, 02:24 PM
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StreakingRed
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Nah, I don't buy into any of this disrupted chemistry talk. The additions of Jokinen and Leopold have been great. If anything, it's the injuries affecting this team and some bad defensive stretches. Nothing that can't be fixed. This is a bigger issue because of timing.

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Old
03-26-2009, 02:34 PM
  #10
Northern Neighbour
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Originally Posted by FlamesOwnYou View Post
I agree with you 110%. Another thing to consider is that we have been on the road for what like 8 of our last 11 games.
Good point as well. The team has also played a lot of games in a short span. After the trade deadline, I think it was full week before the team actually had a full practice, so Jokinen and Leopold had to develop chemistry with the rest of the team on the fly. Given this, I think the chemistry on the team is quite fine. It's quite clear that everyone on the team is working hard and making sacrifices for the best of the team.

Once the team gets healthy, I think they'll start rolling again. Having Bertuzzi back will greatly improve the PP.

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Old
03-26-2009, 03:11 PM
  #11
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Originally Posted by Szechwan View Post
Maybe this is Jokinen's "character issues" that Gillis mentioned last summer.
I don't think so.

He's showed alot of fire, even in last nights game.

I think Bourque was a bigger part of this team then alot of us guessed, myself included. I hate Bertuzzi so i think we're better w/o him, LOL.

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Old
03-26-2009, 03:21 PM
  #12
getoverit
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sounds like Bert maybe back tonight as well Bourque is skating and working on cardio, so good news and sign........

Last night we played pretty good defensively, we used the body, we just didnt capitalize on our opportunities..... Our special teams needs work as we didnt sustain any pressure on what, like 5 PP's plus gave up opportunities on allowing another SH goal urghhhhhh. The special team coaches are brutal, Preston needs to go and we need a new system for special teams, lack of creativity and standing around and always being weighted on one side is enough to drive anyone to drink I hope iggy/cammy and olllie oh and Kipper have a great night tonight, we need those 2 points

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Old
03-26-2009, 03:25 PM
  #13
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Originally Posted by getoverit View Post
The special team coaches are brutal, Preston needs to go and we need a new system for special teams, lack of creativity and standing around and always being weighted on one side is enough to drive anyone to drink

We don't need a new system. We need to actually practice our current system. Showing some urgency while on the PP wouldn't hurt either.

Keenan has even admitted as much, that this team doesn't practice the PP much. Then when we go for a pathetic 0/5 on the PP, where the opposition has just as many good scoring chances as we do, he has the nerve to come out in the media and say the PP needs more work. Have you seen this team's stats when we score just ONE PP goal as opposed to when we don't score any? It's quite a difference.


Last edited by StreakingRed: 03-26-2009 at 03:31 PM.
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Old
03-26-2009, 04:45 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Classy Iggy View Post
Got this idea last night after we fell on out faces in Pittsburgh.

Fell on our faces? Don't understand that comment at all.

Even before the deadline the flames weren't playing that great. I'd say since the all star break the flames have struggled with consistancy and our record shows that. Many factors go into that. Injuries have been huge, a lot of road games and it's that time of the year basically when any team can beat any team. The flames have been pretty touch and go for the last month and a half. Really don't think the acquisitions of Jokinen and Leopold have had that much of a negative impact.

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Old
03-26-2009, 05:08 PM
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Ticonderoga
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Fell on our faces? Don't understand that comment at all.

Even before the deadline the flames weren't playing that great. I'd say since the all star break the flames have struggled with consistancy and our record shows that. Many factors go into that. Injuries have been huge, a lot of road games and it's that time of the year basically when any team can beat any team. The flames have been pretty touch and go for the last month and a half. Really don't think the acquisitions of Jokinen and Leopold have had that much of a negative impact.
Ok, our PP was embarrassing and we could not convert on any of our chances. Maybe fell on our faces was a bit much but we should have been able to convert on that 4 min powerplay.

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Old
03-26-2009, 06:59 PM
  #16
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Originally Posted by Szechwan View Post
Maybe this is Jokinen's "character issues" that Gillis mentioned last summer.
that 'character issue' has been said to be BS by his former coach and a former teammate' in Dan Carcillo... who is one of those younger players Jokinen supposedly is too hard on

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Old
03-26-2009, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Classy Iggy View Post
Ok, our PP was embarrassing and we could not convert on any of our chances. Maybe fell on our faces was a bit much but we should have been able to convert on that 4 min powerplay.
even with how bad our PP looked is 0 fro 5 really as bad as it sounds?... 1 PP goal last night would have still given us a loss and something equivalent to a top 10 PP

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03-26-2009, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
even with how bad our PP looked is 0 fro 5 really as bad as it sounds?... 1 PP goal last night would have still given us a loss and something equivalent to a top 10 PP
Assuming that a goal would not have changed the course of the game.

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Old
03-26-2009, 07:20 PM
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Assuming that a goal would not have changed the course of the game.
at this point you have to assume it wouldnt have... it was 1 game where their goaltender outplayed us... plain an d simply... it was as good of a loss as you can get

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Old
03-27-2009, 01:58 PM
  #20
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As a Coyote fan, I'm thrilled with the trade and would say that while the Flames chemistry may not be disrupted, the Coyote chemistry is improved. Lombardi fits in much better than Jokinen with the Coyotes style of play/youth, has been great on the faceoff dot (Coyotes were the worst in the league most of the season, and also a miserable PP which if you can't win a faceoff.......), and has 8 pts (maybe more importantly is a + 2) in 11 games. Because of the faceoff factor and the $3M savings in salary next year, I would almost say I would have made the trade straight up at this point without the 1st & Prust.

All that said, Jokinen is producing even if he is a minus 7, and I think his true value will really be judged when the playoffs start. Maybe he'll be the next C. Lemieux and while not the most beloved teammate, his playoff performance can overshadow any concerns about his character.

Good luck in the playoffs.

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Old
03-27-2009, 02:58 PM
  #21
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I personally think the team MVP this year was Rene Bourque. He was literally the "do everything" guy on the team, and the pen-ultimate sparkplug when he got going. Him being out for so long is what has really hurt the team more than anything IMO.

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Old
03-28-2009, 12:01 AM
  #22
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I honestly didn't think the Flames were playing that well before the trade deadline. I mean you have the TB game where they were awful, and the reason the won the Sens game was bad goaltending, not great play by the Flames.
They were finding ways to win in spite of their injuries and succeeding. That eventually is going to catch up to you when the bounces stop going your way. Its tougher to overcome when A) you don't have the depth to bail yourself out and B)your using to it coming to you, not going to it.
combine that with a big road trip and new players, and the fact that the 'bounces" really havn't been there, and you have a team that is breathing down your kneck, and chemistry is not the issue. The issue is relaxing and realizing that even with the injuries, your a good hockey team so just go and play.

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Old
03-28-2009, 07:48 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
that 'character issue' has been said to be BS by his former coach and a former teammate' in Dan Carcillo... who is one of those younger players Jokinen supposedly is too hard on
It's rather amazing that one person's word is valued so much more highly over another's when you want to agree with them.

If Carcillo said OJ was a total jerk would you suddenly think Olli was a cancer? Or would you dismiss Carcillo as an idiot? Not saying Jokinen is or isn't a cancer, I have no idea. However, for a pretty damn good player he sure gets tossed around.

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Old
03-28-2009, 07:49 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Congo View Post
I personally think the team MVP this year was Rene Bourque. He was literally the "do everything" guy on the team, and the pen-ultimate sparkplug when he got going. Him being out for so long is what has really hurt the team more than anything IMO.
It would be a lot like us losing Burrows for an extended time.

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Old
03-28-2009, 08:51 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by dhabums View Post
It's rather amazing that one person's word is valued so much more highly over another's when you want to agree with them.

If Carcillo said OJ was a total jerk would you suddenly think Olli was a cancer? Or would you dismiss Carcillo as an idiot? Not saying Jokinen is or isn't a cancer, I have no idea. However, for a pretty damn good player he sure gets tossed around.
the difference is how and when it's said... Gillis said this when? at teh deadline? when a rival team landed him? or was it at the draft when he failed to land Jokinen and had to say something to stop an uproar in Canuckland?... Gillis would have had a reason to say what he said to calm the storm in Vancouver about him doing nothing... Carcilli on the other hand said it in an interview after they were no longer teammates... and Carcillo also explained his answer and talked about how Jokinen got a bad rap because he expected as much from the young players as he did the veterans... that is why I take Carcillo's word more seriously than Gillis' word at this point in time

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