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Torts is an abject failure if the Rangers don't make playoffs

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Old
03-30-2009, 07:19 AM
  #1
RangerBoy
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Torts is an abject failure if the Rangers don't make playoffs

Glen Sather did his job.He brought in Nik Antrpov,Sean Avery and Derek Morris without losing a significant roster player in those deals.

Tom Renney was able to rally the troops twice to make the playoffs in 2006-07 and 07-08.

Lets see what John Tortorella does.The Rangers were up five points on #9 Florida with 8 games to play last week before Atlanta.

The Rangers have NO excuse not to make the playoffs.

The definition of abject

Quote:
Main Entry:ab·ject
Pronunciation:\ˈab-ˌjekt\
Function:adjective
Etymology:Middle English, from Latin abjectus, from past participle of abicere to cast off, from ab- + jacere to throw — more at jet
Date:15th century

1: sunk to or existing in a low state or condition <to lowest pitch of abject fortune thou art fallen — John Milton>
2 a: cast down in spirit : servile , spiritless <a man made abject by suffering> b: showing hopelessness or resignation <abject surrender>
3: expressing or offered in a humble and often ingratiating spirit <abject flattery> <an abject apology>
Last week,the word was "cornerstone"

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Old
03-30-2009, 07:34 AM
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RinkOnEStreet
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Yes, because Tom Renney dropping 12 of 15 (or whatever the exact number was) doesn't have ANYTHING to do with the precarious situation we are in right now.

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Old
03-30-2009, 07:49 AM
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Rangerboy is now our official walking dictionairy?

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Old
03-30-2009, 08:05 AM
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klingsor
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I dunno, the fact that Sather chose to carry only six d-men for all that time that Prucha and company were healthy scratches may have bitten Torts in the ass.

I can't blame Torts for that and whether we make the playoffs or not, I want to see what he can accomplish over a full season.

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Old
03-30-2009, 08:12 AM
  #5
Ola
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RinkOnEStreet View Post
Yes, because Tom Renney dropping 12 of 15 (or whatever the exact number was) doesn't have ANYTHING to do with the precarious situation we are in right now.
He didn't have Avery, Antropov and Morris. Gomez was playing injured for a some of thoose games. Kalinin and Mara missed game.

The biggest reason were probably that some players entered the season thinking the team was something it was not. Half the roster was also new.

Who knows what would have happend to the team with just Avery comming in.

Anyway, thats just meaningless speculation...

But, I don't think Torts is dooing okey if he just get alittle more tehn .500 hockey from this team. I don't think its reasonable to only compare his team with the team Renney iced during the 12 of 15 stretch...

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Old
03-30-2009, 08:43 AM
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Synergy27
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I know it's hard to believe, but the chances of this team missing the playoffs as of this very moment are really quite small. They'd have to **** up really badly to miss completely. That said, anyone here would have a hard time defending Torts if it did happen without sounding like a hypocrite.

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Old
03-30-2009, 08:55 AM
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94now
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Abject is so NYR word... Could be middle name of any fan. It is well represented by the following



The entire Torts system is founded on goaltender as a ultimate savior. Lundqvist can and at this point should elevate his game to leave up to expectations and be in par with other fine Gs of the league in this critical time. He is our only elite player and he should show that right now.

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Old
03-30-2009, 09:08 AM
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Actually the chances of missing the playoffs are quite high. They have a stiff schedule and Montreal and Florida have some soft spots.

On the other hand if they can keep pace with Florida they have the tiebreak on wins.

If they miss the playoffs because of something that Torts did or didn't do, he's responsible, like not putting a guy in the penalty box if the Pens had scored. But he's squeezing the most of out of this team.

Why isn't there is a seventh game-ready D like Strudwick? Even Reitz was better than doing experiments in pressure time.

He got a bad rap his last year in Tampa, but this isn't basketball, you can't play without a goaltender. I'm glad he's on board for next year no matter what happens.

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Old
03-30-2009, 09:11 AM
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nyr2k2
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This thread seems like nothing more than flame bait, since we're still in good position. Why not just wait two weeks and evaluate then? If we make it in, this thread will have been a waste of time.

Anyway, I'll go out on a limb here and say that if we do miss the playoffs, the majority of posters here will blame it on Tom Renney.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExtremeHockeyFan View Post
A good number of people don't seem to be grasping this. Mathematically, we have some wiggle room for error, Florida really does not. I could see Florida maybe passing Montreal, but for them to pass us is a long shot.
Considering a good deal of users here actively root for the Mets and Jets, can you blame us for being worried? I've learned to just assume the worst, so I'm (slightly) less disappointed when the inevitable collapse occurs. It's a terrible way to think, I know, but again can you blame me?

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Old
03-30-2009, 09:16 AM
  #11
94now
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
if we do miss the playoffs, the majority of posters here will blame it on Tom Renney.
That is exactly Sather calculation. And people think Slats isn't genius.

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Old
03-30-2009, 09:25 AM
  #12
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Its true, say what you want about Renney's final month and the nosedive this team took, but the fact of the matter is the team still had a hold on a playoff spot. Another fact is that Renney proved he could take 2 out of 3 very different teams to the playoffs using late season surges (the 05-06 team faltered late due to injuries).

Im not going to turn this into a Renney vs. Tortarella argument, but if Torts cannot keep this team in a playoff spot (with a large infusion of talent at the deadline), then he has failed his first test as the New York Rangers' head coach.

Its always difficult to change horses mid-race, especially with a personality that literally couldnt be more different than Renney's. Torts was certainly a breath of fresh air for a while, but over the last few games, hes been coaching this team like its early November. There will be time in the offseason to mold this team as he sees fit...right now, he needs to make due with what hes got and make the playoffs. Thats far more important than trying to send late season messages.

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Old
03-30-2009, 09:27 AM
  #13
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Eh, not to really pin it on Renney, but I don't think he rallies the troops this year if he had stayed on. Not with the way things were looking and the players playing.

Tortorella will share the responsibility if the Rangers don't make the playoffs, but he wasn't in the greatest position to begin with. Sathers additions were nice, but it was almost too late, all things considered.

I'd take the easy way out and say everyone from Sather on down to the players are responsible if the Rangers fall out of the playoffs. Some easy points have been left on the table, like the Atlanta game. The team didn't play great, but they played well enough to go up 4-1 and then their goalie failed them and let the other team back into the game (yeah you can go on and on about how the team should have picked Vally up, but *******, those two goals from behind the goal line were backbreakers and gave Atlanta tons of confidence and drive). Then the forwards can't beat Hedberg, for ****s sake. hedberg. He's not that good. Then Tortorella doesn't send out one of his better shootout guys in Zherdev for whatever godawful reason (I didn't read any postgame comments but I don't really give a **** what justification he has, it was dumb and he let the team down by doing it)

If there was half a season left, some of this would be ok and would work out, but there's not much room for error now and everyone including Tortorella needs to step it up

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Old
03-30-2009, 09:38 AM
  #14
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I don't know if I'd go that far. I would say that Torts failed at his first test, but in order to be a failure, I would have to see what he can do over the next couple of seasons. If he doesn't make the playoffs at those points, I think the time would come to say he was a failure (provided the cause of missing the POs isn't something like Lundqvist being injured or something like that).

If we miss the POs, I think Sather gets 50% of the blame, Renney gets 25%, and Torts gets 25% (if we're just talking management and not players).

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Old
03-30-2009, 09:38 AM
  #15
Fletch
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if the Rangers do not make the playoffs, Sather is a failure, that's plain and simple.

I'm happy that Sather was able to bring in Antropov, Avery and Morris while giving up Kalinin, Dawes and Prucha. That improved the team. Did it automatically make a team a contender? It's hard for me to unequivocally say that considering this team in the month leading to that point seemed more like it should be in the bottom 10 of the league as opposed to the top 16. Does adding an inconsistent forward in Antropov, a forward who hasn't played much all season and has had his issues, and an underperforming defenseman all of the sudden give them a clear path to the playoffs? I really don't know since the team's leaders, Gomez, Drury and Redden still aer with the team and inconcistent forwards, Naslund and Zherdev team with sometimes-struggling defensemen Girardi and Staal who are expected to go against top teams.

Further, to cite Renney's ability to rally troops in past seasons and compare it to this season just isn't fair. It's very different when you have a clear top line, game-changing winger on your roster, especially one with whom you can put an average, at best, rookie centerman to his left and still be successful while this season you can't find any combos that work.

Back to the point - again, I'm not sure I'm ready to call Torts a failure if this team doesn't make the playoffs. I'm also not going to call Renney a failure. This would be on Sather.

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Old
03-30-2009, 09:56 AM
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Synergy - it's definitely not out of the realm...the Rangers can easily get only 2-3 more points the rest of the way. Look at the sked - Jersey; Carolina, who has points in 13 of their last 14 and have won 6 straight; Boston, who's still a good team; Montreal, which may be a game to decide that 8th spot; and two games against Philly. That's not the schedule you want down the stretch when your closest combatant is only two points behind you and with the same amount of games left to be played, and who plays Ottawa and Atlanta, twice, down the stretch. MTL melting down is not an impossibility as they do have a couple tough games, but unlike the Rangers, they are playing three games against teams not in the playoffs.

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Old
03-30-2009, 10:19 AM
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NYR Sting
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
if the Rangers do not make the playoffs, Sather is a failure, that's plain and simple.

I'm happy that Sather was able to bring in Antropov, Avery and Morris while giving up Kalinin, Dawes and Prucha. That improved the team. Did it automatically make a team a contender? It's hard for me to unequivocally say that considering this team in the month leading to that point seemed more like it should be in the bottom 10 of the league as opposed to the top 16. Does adding an inconsistent forward in Antropov, a forward who hasn't played much all season and has had his issues, and an underperforming defenseman all of the sudden give them a clear path to the playoffs? I really don't know since the team's leaders, Gomez, Drury and Redden still aer with the team and inconcistent forwards, Naslund and Zherdev team with sometimes-struggling defensemen Girardi and Staal who are expected to go against top teams.

Further, to cite Renney's ability to rally troops in past seasons and compare it to this season just isn't fair. It's very different when you have a clear top line, game-changing winger on your roster, especially one with whom you can put an average, at best, rookie centerman to his left and still be successful while this season you can't find any combos that work.

Back to the point - again, I'm not sure I'm ready to call Torts a failure if this team doesn't make the playoffs. I'm also not going to call Renney a failure. This would be on Sather.
Exactly. Yes, Avery was a great move, and both the Morris and Antropov trades were good deals. But, the Rangers STILL lack a legitimate first line forward. They still ice some of the most inefficient players in the league every game. Tortorella can't change that. Not yet, anyway.

It's on Sather because he put this team together. The issue isn't how great he did at the deadline, it's how atrocious a job he did before hand, a job bad enough that even his good moves at the deadline can't totally cover that up.

That said, they're making the playoffs. Once they get there, I wouldn't get my hopes up about them sticking around too long. I just don't see it, especially if they play the Devils in the first round.

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Old
03-30-2009, 10:34 AM
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If we were in 5th or 6th place with Torts come i'd might agree with you. but we were what..3 points from 9th when he came in? We are still in a better position with him here and anyone who watches the team can see how much better the team as a WHOLE (not just 3 players) has played. Schedule is getting tough now, cant expect to win everything.

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03-30-2009, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by RinkOnEStreet View Post
Yes, because Tom Renney dropping 12 of 15 (or whatever the exact number was) doesn't have ANYTHING to do with the precarious situation we are in right now.
On the flip side, Renney was also responsible for the outstanding start of the season so in my mind it all evens out. sort of...

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Old
03-30-2009, 10:45 AM
  #20
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Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
If we were in 5th or 6th place with Torts come i'd might agree with you. but we were what..3 points from 9th when he came in? We are still in a better position with him here and anyone who watches the team can see how much better the team as a WHOLE (not just 3 players) has played. Schedule is getting tough now, cant expect to win everything.
When Torts isnt making wild decisions like not putting Zherdev in a shootout, playing Freddie Sjostrom on the second line, and not putting a man in the penalty box leading to his team being shorthanded an extra 30 seconds in a tied game...then yes, his system has helped this team.

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Old
03-30-2009, 10:46 AM
  #21
mhurley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Glen Sather did his job.He brought in Nik Antrpov,Sean Avery and Derek Morris without losing a significant roster player in those deals.

Tom Renney was able to rally the troops twice to make the playoffs in 2006-07 and 07-08.

Lets see what John Tortorella does.The Rangers were up five points on #9 Florida with 8 games to play last week before Atlanta.

The Rangers have NO excuse not to make the playoffs.

The definition of abject



Last week,the word was "cornerstone"
Okay, even I, a huge Renney supporter, think your post is premature AND plain unfair.

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Old
03-30-2009, 10:52 AM
  #22
OrbitalDynamics
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Give him a complete season to fail to make the playoffs before you start describing his tenure here as an "Abject Failure".

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Old
03-30-2009, 10:58 AM
  #23
WhipNash27
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The envelope, very smart. See Jake, here is a man who knows when a situation is untenable.

Good word.

You like that word? And you do have that envelope, don't you?

Better give up, Jimmy. We're dealin' with a couple of geniuses here.
[Jake punches Joe in the face]

Hey man, just leave him the **** alone.
[Jake kicks Jimmy in the groin]

Leave him alone? Yeah, sure Jimmy. Whatever you say. Jake here takes his job with a certain exuberance.

****, we're being beat up by the inventor of scrabble.

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Old
03-30-2009, 11:19 AM
  #24
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Failure? I don't see it. Maybe I'd be disappointed...

Yeah they brought in Avery, Morris and Antropov, but let's not forget that teams around us also got better. Pittsburgh got Gonchar back and added two wingers. Philly got Briere back, and they're goalie is playing really well. New Jersey got Brodeur back. Carolina got Cole. Montreal got Tanguay back

While it looks like we got better, when compared to other teams we really didn't gain much of an advantage. Maybe if the team under Renney managed to actually win one damn game against an EC team while they were struggling or battling injuries we wouldn't be in this mess.

Atlanta is really the only weak team we lost to recently. The other teams we lost to were either as good or better than us. You can't blame Torts for not winning every single game against other teams also battling for the playoffs. That's just ridiculous

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Old
03-30-2009, 11:21 AM
  #25
Levitate
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
Further, to cite Renney's ability to rally troops in past seasons and compare it to this season just isn't fair. It's very different when you have a clear top line, game-changing winger on your roster, especially one with whom you can put an average, at best, rookie centerman to his left and still be successful while this season you can't find any combos that work.

Back to the point - again, I'm not sure I'm ready to call Torts a failure if this team doesn't make the playoffs. I'm also not going to call Renney a failure. This would be on Sather.
Yeah, didn't Jagr go on a tear last year to get the Rangers into the playoffs? Not like the Rangers have a guy on Jagr's level to do that this year.

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