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Rangers Prospect Poll #14

View Poll Results: #14
Miika Wiikman (G) 6 11.54%
Brodie Dupont (F) 20 38.46%
Chris Doyle (F) 14 26.92%
Dale Weise (F) 8 15.38%
Matt Zaba (G) 4 7.69%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-29-2009, 05:54 PM
  #1
FLYLine24
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Rangers Prospect Poll #14

New York Rangers Prospect List


#1 -- Artem Anisimov (F) - Playing for Hartford Wolf Pack (AHL) - Drafted in the 2nd round in the 2006 Draft.
#2 -- Bobby Sanguinetti (D) - Playing for the Hartford Wolf Pack (AHL) - Drafted 21st overall in the 2006 Draft.
#3 -- Evgeny Grachev (F) - Playing for the Brampton Battalion (OHL) - Selected in the 3rd Round in the 2008 Draft.
#4 -- Michael Del Zotto (D) - Playing for the London Knights (OHL) - Selected 20th overall in the 2008 Draft.
#5 -- Lauri Korpikoski (F) - Playing for the New York Rangers (NHL) - Selected 19th overall in the 2004 Draft.
#6 -- Derek Stepan (F) - Playing for the Wisconsin Badgers (NCAA) - Drafted in the 2nd round in the 2008 Draft.
#7 -- Michael Sauer (D) - Playing for the Hartford Wolf Pack (AHL) - Drafted in the 2nd round in the 2005 Draft.
#8 -- Corey Potter (D) - Playing for the Hartford Wolf Pack (AHL) - Drafted in the 4th Round in the 2003 Draft.
#9 -- Tomas Kundratek (D) - Playing for the Medicine Hat Tigers (WHL) - Drafted in the 3rd round in the 2008 Draft.
#10 - David Kveton (F) - Playing for the Trinec Ocelari HC (CZL) - Drafted in the 4th Round in the 2006 Draft.
#11 - Carl Hagelin (F) - Playing for The Michigan Wolverines (NCAA) - Drafted in the 6th round in the 2007 Draft
#12 - Dane Byers (F) - Playing for the Hartford Wolf Pack (AHL) - Drafted in the 2nd Round in the 2004 Draft.
#13 - Tom Pyatt (F) - Playing for the Hartford Wolf Pack (AHL) - Drafted in the 4th Round in the 2005 Draft.





------------------------
Added: Dale Weise (F)
Nominations: Baranka (8), Gaulton (10), Zaborsky (2)
------------------------


Tell me who you want added.

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Old
03-29-2009, 08:22 PM
  #2
nyr2k2
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Wiikman, add Zaborsky.

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Old
03-29-2009, 08:53 PM
  #3
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Dupont add Zaborsky

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03-29-2009, 09:30 PM
  #4
Gardner McKay
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Zaba add Zaborsky

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03-29-2009, 09:38 PM
  #5
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Dupont. Add Moore.

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03-29-2009, 10:02 PM
  #6
Jarkko Immonen
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Dupont, add Zaborksky.

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03-29-2009, 10:47 PM
  #7
ecemleafs
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doesnt seem like our goalies are getting much respect.

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03-29-2009, 11:26 PM
  #8
NYR Viper
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dupont

add campbell.....why has no one brought this kid up?

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03-30-2009, 02:39 AM
  #9
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after the most recent playoff effort, i am officially off the Chris Doyle train, but hopefully the man brings it next season and earns himself a contract. 4 points in 5 playoff games wasn't bad but he really had to be a difference maker for PEI to make it to round 2. Rest well. Train hard. Let's see a 100 point season next year!

Went with Dupont.

edit: add Greg Moore. didn't realize he wasn't even on the poll yet!

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03-30-2009, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
doesnt seem like our goalies are getting much respect.
Agreed. I think they both have starting potential.

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03-30-2009, 08:20 AM
  #11
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add Greg Moore. didn't realize he wasn't even on the poll yet!
Same here! Voted Dupont, definitely add Moore.

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Old
03-30-2009, 09:58 AM
  #12
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Dupont add Moore

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Old
03-30-2009, 10:29 AM
  #13
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Doyle, add Campbell.

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03-30-2009, 04:56 PM
  #14
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Wiikman

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03-31-2009, 05:50 PM
  #15
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Wiikman, add Baranka (still hoping)

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03-31-2009, 06:47 PM
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I went with Weise, he is a personal favorite of mine.

I do think Doyle is a bit underrated though -- like Doyle could IMO definitly be ahead of Hagelin, and I wonder if Doyle also really is behind Stephan....

Doyle leads the juniors this org have the rights to; in both pts and fighting majors, while playing for a suspect team.

Add Greg Moore.

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03-31-2009, 09:28 PM
  #17
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Doyle. A favorite of mine - those worried about the decrease in his stats over the last month or so, don't forget that he suffered a back injury. Let's see how he comes back. And let's hope that he gets traded to a team with some players that have actual talent.

Add Baranka.

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04-01-2009, 06:46 AM
  #18
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I think there is a tendency sometimes to overrate point totals of CHL players. A lot of the guys in Hartford and Charlotte now also put up good numbers when they were in juniors. Moving to the AHL is a big step. There seems to be some questions at least at BB and Prospect Park (whether you like them or not they do track prospects from game to game throughout the season and playoffs) about Doyle's game after his injury--they seem to think that next season will decide whether Doyle even gets a contract. I'd have more of a tendency to go with the pros in Hartford at this point.

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04-01-2009, 07:43 AM
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I think there is a tendency sometimes to overrate point totals of CHL players. A lot of the guys in Hartford and Charlotte now also put up good numbers when they were in juniors. Moving to the AHL is a big step. There seems to be some questions at least at BB and Prospect Park (whether you like them or not they do track prospects from game to game throughout the season and playoffs) about Doyle's game after his injury--they seem to think that next season will decide whether Doyle even gets a contract. I'd have more of a tendency to go with the pros in Hartford at this point.
Agreed. PA Parenteau was a prolific scorer in the Q as well, but he just lacks the extra gear to make it in the NHL. Happens with plenty of guys. I'm not saying that Doyle doesn't posses the ability to make it, i'm just a bit skeptical. He's a decent prospect, but I'd also side with the guys higher up in the pro ladder.

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04-01-2009, 08:54 AM
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Agreed. PA Parenteau was a prolific scorer in the Q as well, but he just lacks the extra gear to make it in the NHL.
I don't think that's a fair assumption to make at this point. He's worked hard to make himself a more complete player over the past two years and hasn't even gotten a chance to prove whether he can or can't play in the NHL because of his waiver status and the organization's unwillingness to risk losing him.

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04-01-2009, 09:25 AM
  #21
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I don't think that's a fair assumption to make at this point. He's worked hard to make himself a more complete player over the past two years and hasn't even gotten a chance to prove whether he can or can't play in the NHL because of his waiver status and the organization's unwillingness to risk losing him.
You're right, I haven't seen him enough to say for certain whether he truly does lack that top gear. It's based more off of a hunch and the fact that front office-types don't seem to want to give him a chance.

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04-01-2009, 01:47 PM
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Ola
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
I think there is a tendency sometimes to overrate point totals of CHL players. A lot of the guys in Hartford and Charlotte now also put up good numbers when they were in juniors. Moving to the AHL is a big step. There seems to be some questions at least at BB and Prospect Park (whether you like them or not they do track prospects from game to game throughout the season and playoffs) about Doyle's game after his injury--they seem to think that next season will decide whether Doyle even gets a contract. I'd have more of a tendency to go with the pros in Hartford at this point.
Doyle is definitly really a longshot, for sure. But he have a shot and he have some potential.

Its not like Carl Hagelin is on fasttrack to make it to the NHL. Of 100 players like Hagelin, it will be tough for 1 to become a good NHLer. Thats pretty much the cold reality.

Stephan is getting good reports, but his stats isn't that impressive (I've not seen him play).

I don't think its likely at all that Doyle will make it; but he do have some potential. He process the game really really fast. He seems like a very strongheaded kid who goes his own ways. He is to his team what Kovalchuk is to Atlanta basically. And he seems to have zero problems with that. He really need to develop on all fronts to make it to the NHL. But if he just gets close, he seems like a kid who if he gets close -- he could really do something with it.

What I like about players Doyle, but also about Weise, is that they are types who can find "roles" or nichés in the NHL. There are many players like thoose two who play in the NHL but really isn't that great. I think its fair to make a comparision on that subject with Pierre-A Parenteau -- like the players in the NHL who plays his style are very very good hockeyplayers. PAP haven't got a chance, but he also isn't that great. Like a Ray Withney or Ville Peltonen is just better players then him, and have more edge. Whenever someone like PAP plays in the NHL you will know that it will be for a team with bad management -- because there are plenty of players like him outside the NHL who are better. Why play PAP when you could just sign a significantly better version of him in a Lubos Bartecko for example for the same money from Europe?

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04-01-2009, 04:26 PM
  #23
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Doyle is definitly really a longshot, for sure. But he have a shot and he have some potential.

Its not like Carl Hagelin is on fasttrack to make it to the NHL. Of 100 players like Hagelin, it will be tough for 1 to become a good NHLer. Thats pretty much the cold reality.

Stephan is getting good reports, but his stats isn't that impressive (I've not seen him play).

I don't think its likely at all that Doyle will make it; but he do have some potential. He process the game really really fast. He seems like a very strongheaded kid who goes his own ways. He is to his team what Kovalchuk is to Atlanta basically. And he seems to have zero problems with that. He really need to develop on all fronts to make it to the NHL. But if he just gets close, he seems like a kid who if he gets close -- he could really do something with it.

What I like about players Doyle, but also about Weise, is that they are types who can find "roles" or nichés in the NHL. There are many players like thoose two who play in the NHL but really isn't that great. I think its fair to make a comparision on that subject with Pierre-A Parenteau -- like the players in the NHL who plays his style are very very good hockeyplayers. PAP haven't got a chance, but he also isn't that great. Like a Ray Withney or Ville Peltonen is just better players then him, and have more edge. Whenever someone like PAP plays in the NHL you will know that it will be for a team with bad management -- because there are plenty of players like him outside the NHL who are better. Why play PAP when you could just sign a significantly better version of him in a Lubos Bartecko for example for the same money from Europe?
Doyle if he does make it might well fall into the 3rd liner category ala Ryan Callahan who he is slightly bigger than. That seems IMO to be about his top. At this point though it's not a slam dunk that he gets signed. It strikes me that he didn't finish the season quite at 100% health wise and next year he will need to make a big statement. As for guys like Byers, Dupont, Weise they also strike me if they make it as 3rd and 4th liners as well. At this point in time their chances of becoming Rangers are much more realistic than Doyle's. The thing as well though with Byers, Dupont, Weise is they all have size and grit and some puck skills--it's not a reach to see them as third liners who can work the walls and corners and learn to kill penalties and knock in the odd goal here and there. To me the one with the most questions at this point in time (if for no other reason than being at an earlier stage of development) is Doyle. A year from now that assessment might be completely different though.

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04-01-2009, 04:35 PM
  #24
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No love for our two goalies in Hartford. Kveton falls below a 24 year old career nhl dman who is 7th on the depth chart now but will be 10th next year. Ouch.

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04-02-2009, 04:43 PM
  #25
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Doyle if he does make it might well fall into the 3rd liner category ala Ryan Callahan who he is slightly bigger than. That seems IMO to be about his top. At this point though it's not a slam dunk that he gets signed. It strikes me that he didn't finish the season quite at 100% health wise and next year he will need to make a big statement. As for guys like Byers, Dupont, Weise they also strike me if they make it as 3rd and 4th liners as well. At this point in time their chances of becoming Rangers are much more realistic than Doyle's. The thing as well though with Byers, Dupont, Weise is they all have size and grit and some puck skills--it's not a reach to see them as third liners who can work the walls and corners and learn to kill penalties and knock in the odd goal here and there. To me the one with the most questions at this point in time (if for no other reason than being at an earlier stage of development) is Doyle. A year from now that assessment might be completely different though.
I think Doyle have a whole diffrent quality level then Byers and Dupont especially, but also in some ways then Callahan.

Doyle is special in that sense, no doubt. He actually reminds somewhat of Alexi Cherepanov in his offensive game. Natrually without the Russian flare. Like he is a player who can score a bunch of goals by just processing things faster then everyone else. I was really suprised when I saw Doyle in that sense; I would say that his abilitys in some small areas are very rare.

But the competition in the hockeyworld right now is really tough. 20 years ago he could have become a Luc Robitaille type of scorer. These days you have to be really well rounded just to stay with the flow in the NHL. Doyle isn't that. His engine isn't top notch. He doesn't have a modern NHL movement scheme so to speak, he takes allot of shortcuts on the ice. Its a small example, but in one game that I saw Doyle was pretty active on the ice, forchecked some et c -- and the hometeam commentators made a comment like "Doyle is really gooing tonight, something we havne't seen all that much this season". (this was like in early december)

Another side with Doyle is the physical aspects. He will never become a Hollweg type of hitter. But he can definitly handle himself and seems like a player who is pretty calm on the ice most of the time, but who really gets gooing when he gets pissed. Someone you don't push around -- he seems to "see red" so to speak.

The bottomline when it comes to Doyle is that he definitly isn't on track to make the NHL. There is no doubts about that. If you take a player like Sanguinetti its easy to tell that if everything goes well, he will play in the NHL, its only a matter of time really and how good he will become. He just needs to get experience and improve a little all over the board. Doyle will never even remotely make the NHL as the type of player he is today, he have to change his game and adopt to a completely diffrent role. But with the amount of hockey he have in him, with the temprament he have and such I wouldn't want to rule out the possibility of him making that transition. I wouldn't.

I think Doyle illustrates the state of the hockeyworld really well. Lets say that Chris Doyle, Wojtek Wolski and Mike Riberio played for a same team. If their team during a practise played 5 on 5 in one zone against one goalie Chris Doyle probably could play on the same level as thoose two. While Wolski and Riberio can skate in the NHL, Doyle probably would just keep up in the AHL -- in normal games. Like a Blair Betts is darn good in 90% of the game of hockey. In 90% of the game of hockey there is probably only like 60 hockeyplayers who are noticeble better then him. No matter how talented you are in the top end abilitys, its thoose 90% that makes or breaks careers. Even 4th lineers in the NHL, and 3rd lineers atleast in the AHL can play at a really high level in thoose 9/10th's of the game -- if you won't cut it in thoose 9/10th, it doesn't matter how talented you are in the last 10th.

When it comes to Byers I would say that allot of pices are there -- but not everything. He isn't especially good in any area -- not compared to a NHL player. A player like Byers can make it playing exactly like he does, without needing to improve much all over the board -- if he is a really good skater. Its easy to point at players in a wide range from guys like Colby Armstrong to players like Antoine Vermette and co -- and find that they are actually really good skaters these days. Its hard though to find a Colby A or Antoine Vermette in the NHL who is just a avg skater, or avg, the avg skater in the NHL today is really fast. A player with the talent level of Byers just needs to have great wheels to make it to the NHL, there are no if's and but's about it. The Alex Giroux's never become successful NHLers...

And Byers probably could improve his skating enough. I don't think he got any intangible thats holding him back. It will take extremely hard work et c, but thats no news. However, a major knee injury isn't exactly what the doctor would prescribe...

Dale Weise doesn't have a ton of hockey in him. He is very 1-dimensional.

I once played with a pretty gifted finn who kind of was a failure. He loved to critizise every hockeyplayer. And every know and then he called players he saw on his own team or on the opposition for "the train" (in finnish). I didn't really understand him and asked about it -- like a train to me sounded pretty positive. Like hard to stop and what not. He answeared something like "you can set your watch after watching him play, he doesn't read the ice and does the same things all the time".

I would say that Weise is a typical train. But he is really good at what he does best. He is kind of like Dubinsky and Korpikoski in that sense. Like Dubinsky does some things well offensivly, he do them so good that it doesn't really matter if he plays in the AHL or NHL -- he will succed with them. I think it will be the same with Korpikoski down the line. Like there are plenty of examples of players who gets their pts in the AHL from stickhandling eights around D's and like scores 90 pts, but when they get to the NHL they can't beat a single D and scores 0 pts and are sent down. With playeres like Dubinsky and Korpikoski I think you natrually always can shave of 20% from their pts totals in the NHL compared to the AHL, but not much more.

Its kind of the same with Weise, like he will never become a complete AHL player, and if he played in the ECHL he wouldn't be a dominant player either. But he could probably today step into the NHL and manage to drive the puck to the net and create chances once in a while. He isn't burying em in the AHL so he sure wouldn't in the NHL either -- but he would probably stand out once in a while atleast.

And from my point of view, thats the real diffrence between a Dale Weise and Carl Hagelin. Like Gordie Clarke could call Dale Weise to his office and say - "look at Antonine Vermette. This is his test results. He squats x lbs and runs the quickness tests in x seconds. If you can get to his level in thoose areas you could make the NHL as a 4th line checker". Because if he could just improve his speed and strength enough he could do in the NHL exactly the same things as he does now in the AHL. If Weise could do that in 2-3 years he would get his feets wet and every incentive to improve would be within grasp. He would gain a ton of confidence and also get the opertunity to play with and against great players. That always helps players develop. Look at a Kirk Maltby -- he took that route. There are many other examples.

But what could Gordie Clarke tell Carl Hagelin if he called him into his office? He is 5'10 and 170 lbs, so becomming a checker would always be tough. "Carl if you improve in every single area you could become a 2nd line player".

I wouldn't rule out Hagelin as a prospect, I haven't seen him in over a year. Hagelin will become a good hockeyplayer -- no doubt. He is not like a Zabrosky or Skokan who just don't have the gods. Hagelin can skate really well. He can handle the puck at high speed. Stuff like that. But when I saw him the last time I had a very hard time figuring out where he could fit in on a NHL team. He isn't "that" good at all in any area really.

Brodie Dupont is really strong on the puck. He is half smart and sees the ice et c. He is decent in the attacking zone.

But when I saw him last season it was very obvious that he needed allot of work. He was very very raw. But thats not all that negative, allot can happend over a summer at that age. Though when I've seen him this season he have moved allong -- but he haven't taken any giant steps at all really. Not like a Dubinsky did at the same age for example. Not even like a Greg Moore.

I would say that Dupont is miles away, really miles away. But the fact that he is so raw speaks to his advantage -- like the more raw and flawed you are, the easier it is to take thoose first big steps. With a Dupont allot can happend in a short period of time. But the fact that all that much didn't happend this summer defintly isn't promising. Sometimes you need a season in the pro's to really grasp what needs to be done. But while Dupont have improved some -- he is still living on his strengths in the AHL basically, and many of his pts comes from his enviorment. Like in the summer he got to a level where he could keep up with the play in the AHL, which let him play to his strengths. His strengths in the NHL wouldn't achive much as it is, and the step he would have to take overall to be able to stay with the flow in the NHL is very big.

If someone gave me 1000 to 1 (or is it the other way around? You get what I mean) that Dupont would make the NHL I am not sure I would spare a buck...

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