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Good news! We have a superstar!

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Old
04-01-2009, 08:58 AM
  #51
kris
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If we're not able to re-sign Kovalev, I reaaaaaaally hope he doesn't return to Pittsburgh.

Crosby is the type of player that would give Kovalev his best season ever.

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Old
04-01-2009, 09:34 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
On talent alone Kovalev is top5 in the league. I understand that you don't like because of his selective times to give a real effort, but you're the one who's streching it....
Top-5 in the league is a bit of a stretch, but I agree with the rest. Kovalev can be a star player, but the problem is, he's not because his game is never consistent.

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Old
04-01-2009, 11:18 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Top-5 in the league is a bit of a stretch, but I agree with the rest. Kovalev can be a star player, but the problem is, he's not because his game is never consistent.
everything's a stretch here today huh? lol

Ok, name me 5 players who are more TALENTED then Kovalev

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Old
04-01-2009, 11:22 AM
  #54
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We have a true first line, and thankfuly, they have found chemistry together. Let's just be happy about that, because anyway you wanna put it, if you switch anyone out of that line, it will suffer from it, because all three are important to it.

With the way Kovy and Koivu play in the playoff, I can't wait to see that line in the playoffs. All three players have performed well in the playoffs in their careers.

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Old
04-01-2009, 11:26 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
everything's a stretch here today huh? lol

Ok, name me 5 players who are more TALENTED then Kovalev
I wouldn't say they're MORE talented, but they're pretty close:

Alexander Semin, Ilya Kovalchuk, Pavel Datsyuk, Henrik Zetterberg, Aaron Downey

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Old
04-01-2009, 11:34 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
everything's a stretch here today huh? lol

Ok, name me 5 players who are more TALENTED then Kovalev
Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkyn, Kovalchuck, Nash.

God that was easy...

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Old
04-01-2009, 11:47 AM
  #57
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Ok let's make this a bit more interesting.


Name 5 players who have 100 playoff games under their belt or more, that are .85PPG in the playoffs or higher, that have been to the post season 9 times and only missed the second round twice, that have won a Stanley Cup and are paid 4.5 mil a year or lower.

That's when you quickly realize just how valuable this guy is to the Habs. If that isn't consistency I'm not bipedal.

But yes, he's very inconsistent in the regular season. Always has been, always will be.

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Old
04-01-2009, 12:09 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
Ok let's make this a bit more interesting.


If that isn't consistency I'm not bipedal.
This board is not the place to discuss your orientation


Seriously, if you want to get rid of Kovalev, just remember how our powerplay looked when we had the flu. Brutal.

His problem was wanting too much. What he does now is focus his energy on what he does best - that's offence. No more ES against the enemy top line. No more PK. And he finaly has a winger he can share some of the pressure with.

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Old
04-01-2009, 12:17 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markovskaya View Post
Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkyn, Kovalchuck, Nash.

God that was easy...
Nash is stronger and faster, but not more talented, Kovalchuk is also VERY debatable

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Old
04-01-2009, 12:19 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
Nash is stronger and faster, but not more talented, Kovalchuk is also VERY debatable
There's more to talent then just your ability to stick handle. And just for the record, I love Kovalev.

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Old
04-01-2009, 12:22 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by TheGoalJudge View Post
There's more to talent then just your ability to stick handle. And just for the record, I love Kovalev.
Yeah, hockey sense is a part of talent. Kovalev has pretty average hockey sense.

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Old
04-01-2009, 12:23 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
Nash is stronger and faster, but not more talented, Kovalchuk is also VERY debatable

I judge talent by the ability to put the puck in the net (including assists). I don't know about you?

If it's not about scoring goals then define talent for me pelase.

Yes and for the record, I love kovy. I'm not bashing him at all here. Just making a point that he is not top 5 talent. Top 10 ok, not 5.

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Old
04-01-2009, 12:31 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
Nash is stronger and faster, but not more talented, Kovalchuk is also VERY debatable
Why is Kovalchuk even debatable? Kovalev is possibly a better stickhandler but Kovalchuk's shot (all of them, slap, snap, wrist...) is absurdly powerful and accurate. Thats skill too. He's also stronger and faster than Kovalev.

This is a typical case of overrating a guy then hate him when he fails to meet expectations.

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Old
04-01-2009, 12:41 PM
  #64
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I didn't realize you guys didn't consider Markov a superstar

On a team like Detroit he'd have like 90pts+

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Old
04-01-2009, 12:45 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
I didn't realize you guys didn't consider Markov a superstar

On a team like Detroit he'd have like 90pts+
It's the "Montreal can't have a superstar no matter what" mentality.

We do have a superstar, but since he doesn't get 100 points in a season (as if any Dman has in the last few years), well then he isn't a superstar.

It's the same lingering mentality that make people think we won't get any elite players out of our drafts.

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Old
04-01-2009, 12:52 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
I didn't realize you guys didn't consider Markov a superstar

On a team like Detroit he'd have like 90pts+


there is a HUGE topic arguing that point somewhere.

I think it ended up 50/50.

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Old
04-01-2009, 01:12 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Agreed. Tanguay seems to have whipped Kovy into shape and it's great to see. Still, it's a real stretch to call Kovalev a superstar when he's not even a star player.
Praytell, do Mr Gainey, Muller, Lever, and Koivu deserve any credit?

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Old
04-01-2009, 04:23 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by StlRams514 View Post
Not too sure about Kovy being a superstar even when he's trying Lafleur's Guy. He can be a damn good player and an excellent shooter, but I wouldn't put him on the same level as guys like Parise, Zetterberg, Datsyuk etc etc

Edit: Wow put Madden instead of Parise, don't know how I got those two mixed, fixed anyways...
He's the kind of guy that can carry a team, not many players have this ability.

He just doesn't always use it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StlRams514 View Post
Praytell, do Mr Gainey, Muller, Lever, and Koivu deserve any credit?
No. Tanguay deserves all the credit. Just think of what how Kovalev would've tanked if he hadn't been playing with him last year.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 04-01-2009 at 11:09 PM.
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Old
04-01-2009, 04:47 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
No. Tanguay deserves all the credit. Just think of what how Kovalev would've tanked if he hadn't been playing with him last year.
Tanguay doesn't deserve all the credit, but he is a major catalyst behind turning this year's try-too-hard-overhandle-the-puck Kovalev into this trust-his-linemate-and-finds-open-ice Kovalev that looks a lot more like last year's article. That, and as the team's most effective even-strength forward, Tanguay no doubt had a hand in Kovalev outperforming his usual standards at ES.

I love Kovalev, but he can't carry a line by himself, not at even-strength. His awesome season from last year was due in no small part to the PP, but also to Pleky and AKost's emergence at even-strength. Those two haven't done as well this year (Pleks especially) so of course Kovalev suffered, and he started trying to do too much. He did change his game, but IMHO it was more in reaction to his linemates.

What's really encouraging about Kovy right now is how the PP is producing again -- that was his bailiwick last year, and the major reason between the difference in performance between this year and last. I think the criticism of Kovy this year was a bit unfair -- he wasn't too likely to replicate last season, and with the PP going off the rails, his bread-and-butter went with it.

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Old
04-01-2009, 04:55 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Tanguay doesn't deserve all the credit, but he is a major catalyst behind turning this year's try-too-hard-overhandle-the-puck Kovalev into this trust-his-linemate-and-finds-open-ice Kovalev that looks a lot more like last year's article. That, and as the team's most effective even-strength forward, Tanguay no doubt had a hand in Kovalev outperforming his usual standards at ES.
Tanguay is a good player and he will make those who he plays with better. He's good to have on the team but he's not what I'd call an elite player. You are right though that putting him with Kovalev was a great move.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
I love Kovalev, but he can't carry a line by himself, not at even-strength. His awesome season from last year was due in no small part to the PP, but also to Pleky and AKost's emergence at even-strength. Those two haven't done as well this year (Pleks especially) so of course Kovalev suffered, and he started trying to do too much. He did change his game, but IMHO it was more in reaction to his linemates.
You're right again. Kovalev doesn't really carry a line so much as he just carries a team. He's an individual talent who scores on his own. He'll put up points and he's a gamebreaker but he won't ever make a player like Kostitsyn better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
What's really encouraging about Kovy right now is how the PP is producing again -- that was his bailiwick last year, and the major reason between the difference in performance between this year and last. I think the criticism of Kovy this year was a bit unfair -- he wasn't too likely to replicate last season, and with the PP going off the rails, his bread-and-butter went with it.
We'll just have to hope he stays hot because Kovalev can switch temperatures at the switch of a button.

He's like a microwave.

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Old
04-01-2009, 05:16 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Tanguay is a good player and he will make those who he plays with better. He's good to have on the team but he's not what I'd call an elite player. You are right though that putting him with Kovalev was a great move.
Depends on what you call an "elite" player. He may not have the pizzaz a Kovalev does, but in terms of pure effectiveness, he certainly qualifies.

I'd certainly call him an elite playmaker. I'd also name him as the Habs' most effective forward. He's the player that gets the most GF while he's on the ice, he's within a hair of getting the least GA, and gets the most points on the team relative to icetime -- and he's tailing the goals leader by a hair, too, not bad for a supposedly one-dimensional passer. He's highly effective as a two-way player -- more so than any other Habs forward.

To reiterate, to me he's like Markov if Markov was a forward.

I'll grant you probably want more than just Tanguay -- as an elite passer, he's at his best with a good shooter. Then again an elite shooter is at his best with a good passer, so....

Yes, I do think Tanguay is better than Kovalev. Kovalev has more individual talent, but Tanguay has better vision, a better defensive game, and is simply more effective all-around. He's also a lot more consistent, especially year-over-year. But they're different players with very different games, so ideally you want both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
You're right again. Kovalev doesn't really carry a line so much as he just carries a team. He's an individual talent who scores on his own. He'll put up points and he's a gamebreaker but he won't ever make a player like Kostitsyn better.
Kovalev does have an ability to put up points singlehandedly, but he's at his best when he doesn't try to do that exclusively. That's the big difference between 08-09 Kovy and 07-08 Kovy (and the current Kovy, IMHO).

Last year's ATAK line's success at even-strength was built on Plekanec and Kostitsyn, whereas Kovalev produced at much at the pace he does now and did before.

Kovy's big schtick was the PP, where his effectiveness was completely, utterly insane (and, sadly but predictably, proved to be unsustainable this season).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
We'll just have to hope he stays hot because Kovalev can switch temperatures at the switch of a button.
We'll see, but I don't think it's solely a factor of Kovalev.

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Old
04-01-2009, 07:41 PM
  #72
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Your blind hatred towards Kovalev is pathetic.

At this point, I just want him to resign so I can laugh in your face
It's far from blind. And I wouldn't be surprised one bit if Gainey took the bait again and re-signed him. But your reason to want him re-sign is quite... troubling to say the least. I shouldn't have that much effect in your life.

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Old
04-01-2009, 07:48 PM
  #73
j c petit
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Unlike some people, I don't hate Kovalev but I think that next season it will be time to move on.

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Old
04-01-2009, 09:35 PM
  #74
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Depends on what you call an "elite" player. He may not have the pizzaz a Kovalev does, but in terms of pure effectiveness, he certainly qualifies.

I'd certainly call him an elite playmaker. I'd also name him as the Habs' most effective forward. He's the player that gets the most GF while he's on the ice, he's within a hair of getting the least GA, and gets the most points on the team relative to icetime -- and he's tailing the goals leader by a hair, too, not bad for a supposedly one-dimensional passer. He's highly effective as a two-way player -- more so than any other Habs forward.

To reiterate, to me he's like Markov if Markov was a forward.

I'll grant you probably want more than just Tanguay -- as an elite passer, he's at his best with a good shooter. Then again an elite shooter is at his best with a good passer, so....

Yes, I do think Tanguay is better than Kovalev. Kovalev has more individual talent, but Tanguay has better vision, a better defensive game, and is simply more effective all-around. He's also a lot more consistent, especially year-over-year. But they're different players with very different games, so ideally you want both.
I see Tanguay as a very good (not elite) playmaking talent. Obviously he's far more consistent than Kovalev is. If I had to choose though, I'd go with the guy with gamebreaking talent.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Kovalev does have an ability to put up points singlehandedly, but he's at his best when he doesn't try to do that exclusively. That's the big difference between 08-09 Kovy and 07-08 Kovy (and the current Kovy, IMHO).

Last year's ATAK line's success at even-strength was built on Plekanec and Kostitsyn, whereas Kovalev produced at much at the pace he does now and did before.

Kovy's big schtick was the PP, where his effectiveness was completely, utterly insane (and, sadly but predictably, proved to be unsustainable this season).

We'll see, but I don't think it's solely a factor of Kovalev.
This team will go as far as Kovalev takes us. Tanguay can help bring out the best in him but ultimately, I could see us winning without Tanguay. There's no way that we win without Kovalev though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by j c petit View Post
Unlike some people, I don't hate Kovalev but I think that next season it will be time to move on.
He's probably not coming back.

I'm just not sure who's going to replace him.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 04-01-2009 at 11:10 PM.
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Old
04-01-2009, 09:44 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
He's probably not coming back.

I'm just not sure who's going to replace him.
And if he isn't getting replaced, then it's a shame. I can't think of anyone else who'll perform better when he's almost singularly under the spotlight in as mad a city as this. While other UFAs are turned off by pressure, this man relishes it.

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