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Old
04-01-2009, 03:40 PM
  #76
marchabsfan
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
You seem to have a weird notion of dividing which fans should cheer for which players, somehow assuming that English speaking Quebecers, defined I guess as West Islanders, have an affinity for Finns.

2 of my all time favorites were Mike McPhee and Mario Tremblay, a herring choker and a bleuet, the bleuet made his home on the West Island I believe, I assume a form of self loathing.

I have no idea of where I'm going with this, but only posted because I'm a bit sleep deprived and can't figure what the **** you're talking about other than some fans don't like Latendresse because he's French speaking but like Koivu because, well I forgot that part.
well yes, you didnt understood my point. im not this good at english so I can really explain but here it is:

je crois honnetement que certaines raisons "obscures" pour ne pas dire malsaines expliquent la facon de voir que plusieurs ont vu de latendresse, particulierement oui des anglophones. au meme titre que certaines raisons sont "obscures" pour le traitement de koivu, par particulierement des francophones. no, it's not because "HE'S FRENCH" that I think some were so heavily bashing latendresse. its because 80% of the people of this province have orgasm each time he scores and shows he enjoys it and cares. some would never admit it, but it is tough for them to see. it was so satisfying to bash him once he had some cold streaks.

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04-01-2009, 03:49 PM
  #77
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Actually it had tons to do with it. MANY people felt that the only reason Lats made the team was because he was french, they wanted one of the other prospects to be up instead of him, and because of that reason these people have bashed him constantly for the last 3 years.

Why do you think there's so much animosity towards him? Because the 'media hype'? That's BS...it's because of some sort of perceived favoritism. In general, media hype will not make people have a personal vendetta or dislike for a player, especially not to the extent we see with Lats.

Personally I've always been a huge Lats fan, I think what he's done in 2 years after leaving Juniors is extremely impressive, and I just don't understand all the whining, complaining and personal attacks against him...
Like I said, I've always defended him too and yes, some people were saying it was a case of favoritism. They might be true. A year in the AHL might have helped him. Heck, people were/are saying that about Price too.
Lats is the only player we drafted on our roster that didn't play in AHL, and it's not because his production was trough the roof. If we sent Price down, then we can very well make a case that Lats could have used a little time in AHL too.

But bottom line is, if he would have produced as people expected from him, you would have never heard anything about favoritism or race.

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04-01-2009, 03:56 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Like I said, I've always defended him too and yes, some people were saying it was a case of favoritism. They might be true. A year in the AHL might have helped him. Heck, people were/are saying that about Price too.
Lats is the only player we drafted on our roster that didn't play in AHL, and it's not because his production was trough the roof. If we sent Price down, then we can very well make a case that Lats could have used a little time in AHL too.

But bottom line is, if he would have produced as people expected from him, you would have never heard anything about favoritism or race.
he indeed produced like the habs brass wanted, or at a minimal level (or let's say he "developed" well) because he did not go to the AHL. if that wasnt the case, they would have sent him to minor leagues...or are you implying that godlike gainey was influenced by the evil francophone media

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04-01-2009, 04:27 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by marchabsfan View Post
he indeed produced like the habs brass wanted, or at a minimal level (or let's say he "developed" well) because he did not go to the AHL. if that wasnt the case, they would have sent him to minor leagues...or are you implying that godlike gainey was influenced by the evil francophone media
No. But nice attempt to be sarcastic.

Lats had a great 2nd camp, he forced the Habs to keep him.
As the season went by, Lats was given his chance and I feel he actually had a pretty decent rookie year. But the hype around him made a lot of people disappointed more than pleased.
The following season, his camp wasn't spectacular. He didn't improve offensively (although some improvements defensively were noted) and his conditioning looked worse. So, the people were even more let down and the bashers were on fire.
That's where time in AHL could have helped.

I'm not saying some time in AHL would have meant he'd have 25G this year. Just saying it's the conventional way the bring up players.

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04-01-2009, 05:30 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Like I said, I've always defended him too and yes, some people were saying it was a case of favoritism. They might be true. A year in the AHL might have helped him. Heck, people were/are saying that about Price too.
Lats is the only player we drafted on our roster that didn't play in AHL, and it's not because his production was trough the roof. If we sent Price down, then we can very well make a case that Lats could have used a little time in AHL too.

But bottom line is, if he would have produced as people expected from him, you would have never heard anything about favoritism or race.
Anyone who expected him to do better than 15-20 goals in his rookie year, when he hasn't even played in the AHL was delusional. This isn't Sidney Crosby we're talking about here... he did produce to expectations, reasonable expectations.

Whether or not he should have been sent down in year 2 is a whole other can of worms, there's arguments to both sides and I'm not sure it really would've made a difference either way. It would be odd to send him down after he scored 16 goals the previous year in his rookie season, true he didn't have a great camp but he wasn't really playing for a spot at that point, so a direct comparison to our other rookies is a bit of a stretch...

Regardless, I think it's obvious that they made the right move when they kept him up after his 2nd camp, he's showing tremendous improvement this year and it's extremely doubtful he would have developed this quickly playing in the Juniors for one year and the AHL for the other, as opposed to over 150 games in the NHL.

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Old
04-01-2009, 05:39 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
It was actually Gainey that traded up Latendresse.
Gainey, was the GM, but Savard is the one who push hard for Gainey to try to get Latendresse

Source:
http://www2.canoe.com/sports/nouvell...17-081500.html

That is why I repeat: Thank you again André Savard!

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04-01-2009, 05:52 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by yukoner View Post
Anyone who expected him to do better than 15-20 goals in his rookie year, when he hasn't even played in the AHL was delusional. This isn't Sidney Crosby we're talking about here... he did produce to expectations, reasonable expectations.

Whether or not he should have been sent down in year 2 is a whole other can of worms, there's arguments to both sides and I'm not sure it really would've made a difference either way. It would be odd to send him down after he scored 16 goals the previous year in his rookie season, true he didn't have a great camp but he wasn't really playing for a spot at that point, so a direct comparison to our other rookies is a bit of a stretch...

Regardless, I think it's obvious that they made the right move when they kept him up after his 2nd camp, he's showing tremendous improvement this year and it's extremely doubtful he would have developed this quickly playing in the Juniors for one year and the AHL for the other, as opposed to over 150 games in the NHL.
That was my point. Anybody that had reasonable expectations wasn't disappointed with him.
That's why I said the people that were disappointed in him were the ones that had high expectations. People don't just set expectations randomly, they did it off what they heard in the Media.
Lats was praised as the next Quebecer superstar by the Media, so for those who believed in that, they were let down.

That's all I was saying.

I agree with pretty much all of your post.

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Old
04-01-2009, 06:15 PM
  #83
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Latendresse is a great player for the future, he's got the whole package. If he develops right, look out Montreal, you've got yourself a Rick Nash

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04-01-2009, 06:36 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kafka View Post
Gainey, was the GM, but Savard is the one who push hard for Gainey to try to get Latendresse

Source:
http://www2.canoe.com/sports/nouvell...17-081500.html

That is why I repeat: Thank you again André Savard!
From: «Mais on doit connaître les joueurs évoluant dans notre marché. J'ai épié les faits et gestes de Guillaume Latendresse.» how do you get a headline that reads: André Savard a beaucoup milité en faveur de Guillaume Latendresse

Marc De Foy
Le Journal de Montréal
17/12/2006 08h15

because that's all that is said about Guillaume in that entire article. Did I miss something? I thought that Andre Savard was long gone by the time the team drafted Latendresse, but I certainly could be wrong.

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04-01-2009, 06:45 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by j c petit View Post
From: «Mais on doit connaître les joueurs évoluant dans notre marché. J'ai épié les faits et gestes de Guillaume Latendresse.» how do you get a headline that reads: André Savard a beaucoup milité en faveur de Guillaume Latendresse

Marc De Foy
Le Journal de Montréal
17/12/2006 08h15

because that's all that is said about Guillaume in that entire article. Did I miss something? I thought that Andre Savard was long gone by the time the team drafted Latendresse, but I certainly could be wrong.
Savard was at the draft table in 2005, with Gainey... Savard "officialy" resigned to leave his seat to Gainey, and was still with the organization for the 2005 draft but had a hard time convincing Bob, so he left for Pittsburg. I can't find at this point other links regarding that story, but I will try. The story is that Savard convinced Gainey to trade up to get Latendresse (picks #56 & #66 traded for pick #45).

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04-01-2009, 06:49 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Kafka View Post
Savard was at the draft table in 2005, with Gainey... Savard "officialy" resigned to leave his seat to Gainey, and was still with the organization for the 2005 draft but had a hard time convincing Bob, so he left for Pittsburg. I can't find at this point other links regarding that story, but I will try. The story is that Savard convinced Gainey to trade up to get Latendresse (picks #56 & #66 traded for pick #45).
Okay thanks, but that article from DeFoy seems to have very misleading headline. Was he trying to draft Guillaume for the Habs or for the Pens?

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04-01-2009, 06:57 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by marchabsfan View Post
well yes, you didnt understood my point. im not this good at english so I can really explain but here it is:

je crois honnetement que certaines raisons "obscures" pour ne pas dire malsaines expliquent la facon de voir que plusieurs ont vu de latendresse, particulierement oui des anglophones. au meme titre que certaines raisons sont "obscures" pour le traitement de koivu, par particulierement des francophones. no, it's not because "HE'S FRENCH" that I think some were so heavily bashing latendresse. its because 80% of the people of this province have orgasm each time he scores and shows he enjoys it and cares. some would never admit it, but it is tough for them to see. it was so satisfying to bash him once he had some cold streaks.

I understood your post. Your English is fine. I think that it's too easy to characterize groups, regions of the city and I poke fun.

I don't think anyone who has observed how GL has carried himself thru the last 3 years can feel negativity towards him. My impression is of a young guy who cares and has maintained a good attitude through 3 tough years. I think many fans resent how a player gets promoted.

This isn't only a media issue, it's a fan issue, we react, they just talk. People resent the hype, then th ehype is viewed with skepticism because it appears that the gars chez nous is viewed thru a different pair of glasses when he's commented on.

So, posters on a board like this, and we've all seen it, want him to do poorly, or be a star, simply because they want to be right.

Every real fan I know living in Dorval wants a 40 goal scorer and would never dream of wanting a guy to fail. Personally, I see the kid as having a chance to be a solid Yvon Lambert style player, and for me , that's a compliment.

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04-01-2009, 09:48 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Not at all. The media hyped the hell out of this kid, and it translated to many fans. Do you not remember the "power forward we've been looking for!" threads and the "40 goal scorer!!" threads? This happened after his PRESEASON! It was completely ridiculous and you had people chanting "Gui Gui Gui!" and wearing Latendresse jerseys before he even made the team! I had season tickets that year and I remember it quite clearly.
I get what you're saying, but the people who thought he could be a 40 goal scorer or power forward so soon we're the minority. I also don't see what the chanting has to do with anything. In Montreal, it's not because you chant someone's name that you think he's the best player on the team, you should know this. They liked him, he was one of the best players in preseason, he was just 18, local guy, well spoken, big body presence and great scoring instincts. Exactly the type of guy the Habs have wanted for decades, how could you not like him?

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04-01-2009, 10:01 PM
  #89
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Its probably Quebec's team now, but back when the Nordiques were around, a lot of people from "les regions" coulden't stand the Habs, and some to this day still hate them. So in part, it is true that the Canadiens are/were Montreal's team. A lot of fans gravitated back to being fans of the Canadiens after the Nordiques left town.
Wrong. Even in Quebec city itself there was a huge Habs fanbase. In fact at school and everywhere else as fas a I remembered as a kid, the Habs and Nordiques were always 50-50 in people's heart. And that's just in Quebec city.

As far as Lats, I like the kid but we should have drafted Stastny in my opinion.

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04-01-2009, 10:19 PM
  #90
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In the past I have been HIGHLY critical of Lats and Laps. Laps is IMHO the most improved player on the team. Lats has also improved, but I think his improvement is a direct result of playing with Lapierre. For whatever reason he's step it up with him and they have great chemistry. Separating them would be a mistake.

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04-01-2009, 10:26 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post

Every real fan I know living in Dorval wants a 40 goal scorer and would never dream of wanting a guy to fail. Personally, I see the kid as having a chance to be a solid Yvon Lambert style player, and for me , that's a compliment.
Actually, when a team has a 3rd liner that scores 25 a year (which exactly what Lambert was), it has a very good shot at a Stanley Cup.

Now, all we need is 4 new players for the Top-6 to be a SC contender... (or 3, if we downgrade Koivu to the 2nd line).

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04-01-2009, 11:19 PM
  #92
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I've been skeptical about Latendresse ever since he made the team but he's finally beginning to look like a good player. However, it took playing on a line with Lapierre (by far the most improved Hab) to bring it out. Latendresse isn't quite as good when he plays on other lines.

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04-01-2009, 11:35 PM
  #93
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I've been skeptical about Latendresse ever since he made the team but he's finally beginning to look like a good player.
Finally? Latendresse has been an effective -- and rapidly improving -- NHLer from pretty much his 20th career game on. His problem, I think, is that he was not effective in the mold people might have wished.

He's more effective now, yes, but I think what strikes people is that he's also more visibly acting like the power-forward people want to see than he was previously, where he was just hitting people and scoring plenty of goals on limited ice-time.

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However, it took playing on a line with Lapierre (by far the most improved Hab) to bring it out. Latendresse isn't quite as good when he plays on other lines.
I think Lats brings the best out of Lapierre more than the other way around. Lappy just isn't effective offensively without Lats, whereas Lats has been effective with Koivu and Tanguay previously.

They really ought to try him more on the power play. He's been an effective even-strength scorer for 2-3 years now, and he's certainly been better offensively than Chris Higgins this year.

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04-02-2009, 12:10 AM
  #94
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Finally? Latendresse has been an effective -- and rapidly improving -- NHLer from pretty much his 20th career game on. His problem, I think, is that he was not effective in the mold people might have wished.

He's more effective now, yes, but I think what strikes people is that he's also more visibly acting like the power-forward people want to see than he was previously, where he was just hitting people and scoring plenty of goals on limited ice-time.



I think Lats brings the best out of Lapierre more than the other way around. Lappy just isn't effective offensively without Lats, whereas Lats has been effective with Koivu and Tanguay previously.

They really ought to try him more on the power play. He's been an effective even-strength scorer for 2-3 years now, and he's certainly been better offensively than Chris Higgins this year.

Exactly, accurate post.

I'm not sure if i have ever disagreed with one of your posts. Can't seem to recall one, anyway this one is dead on accurate though.

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04-02-2009, 06:26 AM
  #95
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What I like about Latendresse, is that he's 21. And 21 year old power forwards usually kinda suck. They tend to come into their own at around 25/26. So to see him pull stuff like that wraparound goal against TB, or that Arthyukin check, or that garbage goal against Chicago, and do it game after game, is very refreshing.

He's becoming consistent and confident. That's really good.

He's not fat, he's phat!

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04-02-2009, 06:46 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Kafka View Post
Savard was at the draft table in 2005, with Gainey... Savard "officialy" resigned to leave his seat to Gainey, and was still with the organization for the 2005 draft but had a hard time convincing Bob, so he left for Pittsburg. I can't find at this point other links regarding that story, but I will try. The story is that Savard convinced Gainey to trade up to get Latendresse (picks #56 & #66 traded for pick #45).
It was Timmins. I think it was in a Brunet article.

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04-02-2009, 07:31 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Finally? Latendresse has been an effective -- and rapidly improving -- NHLer from pretty much his 20th career game on. His problem, I think, is that he was not effective in the mold people might have wished.

He's more effective now, yes, but I think what strikes people is that he's also more visibly acting like the power-forward people want to see than he was previously, where he was just hitting people and scoring plenty of goals on limited ice-time.



I think Lats brings the best out of Lapierre more than the other way around. Lappy just isn't effective offensively without Lats, whereas Lats has been effective with Koivu and Tanguay previously.

They really ought to try him more on the power play. He's been an effective even-strength scorer for 2-3 years now, and he's certainly been better offensively than Chris Higgins this year.

I think they compliment each other, Lats isn't at his best in open ice and that's Lapierre's weak point, so that works out fine, they allow each other to maximize their attributes. Lats will score his share on another line, but have less impact,imo.

He'd put up some stats on the pp, and it would be a nice bone to throw him, but I'm not sure the pp itself would be better. The 2nd unit has a lot of candidates and the line he plays on makes it easier at times to use someone else. Gainey has tried to take advantage of nights when he seems on though.

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04-02-2009, 07:49 AM
  #98
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As far as Lats, I like the kid but we should have drafted Stastny in my opinion.
I'm sure we would have if we could have, but Stastny was drafted *before* Gui.

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04-02-2009, 07:52 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Kafka View Post
Gainey, was the GM, but Savard is the one who push hard for Gainey to try to get Latendresse

Source:
http://www2.canoe.com/sports/nouvell...17-081500.html

That is why I repeat: Thank you again André Savard!
I heard Timmins in an interview where he said he was thankful that Gainey traded up to get the pick so that they could get Latendresse. Since Gainey was in charge, he has to get some credit for making the move, since he would be the one blamed had the trade backfired.

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04-02-2009, 07:57 AM
  #100
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Holy poopoo is this guy surprising! He got even bigger but surprisingly he really got faster too. He wins his battles very, very often, throws some big hits and he's one of the few guys on the Canadiens that has the guts and size to go in front of the net and make some trouble. I hope he and Lapierre have a shot at the 2nd line anytime soon.

Show him some dirty love

Latendresse is as slow as ever. The major difference since his injury is that he's been working harder. He still isn't good enough to be a top 6 forward. I'm not really sure why anyone would want players with 26 and 23 points respectively to occupy key offensive positions.

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