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Gretzky on Lisin

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Old
04-02-2009, 12:23 PM
  #26
dafranchz
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Originally Posted by knowsthegame View Post
Is Lisin being punished for his past decision to go back to his homeland?
No..they turned the page. The situation - personnel wise - wasn't too inviting the first time he came over.

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04-02-2009, 06:48 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Jeff Dahlia View Post
Unless there is a franchise that can turn him and sign him. Washington and Detroit would be my front runners.
Oh wow would the Yotes end up eating crow if Enver went to either of those two teams!

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04-02-2009, 07:04 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
Oh wow would the Yotes end up eating crow if Enver went to either of those two teams!
Ovechkin on the left and Enver on the right? With Backstrom in the middle?

AO - Backstrom - Lisin
Semin - Fedorov/Nylander - Fehr?

ahhhhh

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04-03-2009, 12:02 AM
  #29
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Lisin should have played the whole season here, we could have used him in the line up.

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04-03-2009, 05:00 AM
  #30
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I think Enver needs a scenario change. He's a very intriguing prospect who needs trust from the management and the coaching. He seems to don't get in Phoenix, and like someone else stated, Grabovsky was the same and it worked greatly.

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04-03-2009, 05:26 AM
  #31
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Personally, I think Lisin needs to learn how to bring his "A" game every day and learn to how to be more responsible in his own zone. If he did that, we wouldn't be discussing this issue.

Lisin hasn't played as much as his talent dictates because he coasts for games at times and he takes shifts off defensively now and then. This is not entirely a coaching issue. It's about work ethic and willingness to work hard all the time.

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04-03-2009, 11:15 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Alessandro Seren Rosso View Post
I think Enver needs a scenario change. He's a very intriguing prospect who needs trust from the management and the coaching. He seems to don't get in Phoenix, and like someone else stated, Grabovsky was the same and it worked greatly.
I am afraid you might be right.

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Originally Posted by hbk View Post
Personally, I think Lisin needs to learn how to bring his "A" game every day and learn to how to be more responsible in his own zone. If he did that, we wouldn't be discussing this issue.
Who is he going to learn this from?

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Old
04-04-2009, 09:23 AM
  #33
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I am afraid you might be right.



Who is he going to learn this from?
seriously? who is he going to learn he has to work hard from? If he doesn't have a work ethic, he wouldn't last in any organization. You think the Red Wings would put up with someone who was super talented but lazy? Answer is no. Proof? Igor Grigorenko was a 2001 highly touted first round pick who was thought to be a sure fire impact player. Although he was as victim of a car accident, it was not that incident that kept him from coming over and sticking with the team. He had NHL talent but not NHL attitude and work ethic and that's why he wasn't handed the roster spot that he thought he deserved.

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Old
04-04-2009, 03:12 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by hbk View Post
Personally, I think Lisin needs to learn how to bring his "A" game every day and learn to how to be more responsible in his own zone. If he did that, we wouldn't be discussing this issue.

Lisin hasn't played as much as his talent dictates because he coasts for games at times and he takes shifts off defensively now and then. This is not entirely a coaching issue. It's about work ethic and willingness to work hard all the time.
Lol...oh ya cuz I remember Gretzky never floated! The guy was the biggest cherry picker ever. I just don't want to see anymore talent wasted like they did with Danny Briere. If that happens again I will lose it.

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04-04-2009, 04:43 PM
  #35
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I don't think that's the right comparison to make. A lot of players are very effective as floaters. Gretzky was elite in that regard. Lisin is not that player, he needs to use his speed and give a full effort every shift. I don't see that every night from him, and I question his ability to use his teammates properly. The guy isn't the next coming of Bure, yet he plays like him. It's really to bad because with the right coaching Lisin could be a star in this league. Sad that Gretz likes Fedoruks solid positioning over Lisin's game breaking talent.

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Old
04-04-2009, 05:40 PM
  #36
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I have a feeling Lisin will go back home. If push comes to shove in negotiations I see the Coyotes just saying "eff it". Lisin doesn't want to work on his game in the AHL and Gretz doesn't want to work with Lisin in the NHL. We still need to find another Dman I think, and maybe Lisin is worth a decent one.

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Old
04-04-2009, 05:45 PM
  #37
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Enver Lisin played in the AHL this year. The fact is, he's good enough for the NHL. He has a lot to work on, but he's not an AHL player. He's good enough, right now, to play a role in the NHL. It's up to the Coyotes, and specifically the Coyotes coaching staff, to help him become a better player.

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04-04-2009, 05:54 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hbk View Post
Personally, I think Lisin needs to learn how to bring his "A" game every day and learn to how to be more responsible in his own zone. If he did that, we wouldn't be discussing this issue.

Lisin hasn't played as much as his talent dictates because he coasts for games at times and he takes shifts off defensively now and then. This is not entirely a coaching issue. It's about work ethic and willingness to work hard all the time.
how do you explain Meuller's gp's and toi's ?

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Old
04-04-2009, 06:09 PM
  #39
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how do you explain Meuller's gp's and toi's ?
He's not Russian.

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Old
04-04-2009, 06:44 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by PhoPhan View Post
Enver Lisin played in the AHL this year. The fact is, he's good enough for the NHL. He has a lot to work on, but he's not an AHL player. He's good enough, right now, to play a role in the NHL. It's up to the Coyotes, and specifically the Coyotes coaching staff, to help him become a better player.

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Old
04-04-2009, 07:31 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by PhoPhan View Post
Enver Lisin played in the AHL this year. The fact is, he's good enough for the NHL. He has a lot to work on, but he's not an AHL player. He's good enough, right now, to play a role in the NHL. It's up to the Coyotes, and specifically the Coyotes coaching staff, to help him become a better player.
Exactly!

Especially the coaching staff part, if they can't be counted on to improve players who clearly have talent but need some work, seriously, what the **** are they good for then?!


Last edited by Sinurgy: 04-04-2009 at 07:37 PM.
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Old
04-04-2009, 07:52 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
Exactly!

Especially the coaching staff part, if they can't be counted on to improve players who clearly have talent but need some work, seriously, what the **** are they good for then?!
Absolutely nothing...

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04-04-2009, 08:04 PM
  #43
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Lisin > Coach Gretzky

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04-04-2009, 08:40 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
Exactly!

Especially the coaching staff part, if they can't be counted on to improve players who clearly have talent but need some work, seriously, what the **** are they good for then?!
Coaches at the NHL level are there to improve technique, plan strategy and tactics, and keep players in shape. It is usually assumed that a player that has REACHED the NHL level has enough self-motivation and drive to stay in the league on their own.

In other words, the Coyotes' coaches SHOULD be able to fix Enver's defensive deficiencies, but there's nothing at all they can do to get him to give a consistent effort. THAT is up to him.

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04-05-2009, 02:41 AM
  #45
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seriously? who is he going to learn he has to work hard from? If he doesn't have a work ethic, he wouldn't last in any organization. You think the Red Wings would put up with someone who was super talented but lazy? Answer is no. Proof? Igor Grigorenko was a 2001 highly touted first round pick who was thought to be a sure fire impact player. Although he was as victim of a car accident, it was not that incident that kept him from coming over and sticking with the team. He had NHL talent but not NHL attitude and work ethic and that's why he wasn't handed the roster spot that he thought he deserved.
Seriously. I think you were reading too much into what I said. I am not expecting the coaching staff to teach him to work hard. I really do not think effort is Lisin's problem. It is decision making and confidence. That might even be a good reason for him to spend a little more time in the AHL, but he isn't in the AHL. He's in the NHL and the team isn't playing him so the only thing left is for the team to teach him what he needs. The coaching staff is failing.

Lisin was trying to play better defense earlier in the season and took a lot of minors doing it. It is unfortunate, but he took a lot of border line penalties trying to lift and hook opposing players sticks, and it left him discouraged. He needs to learn timing to execute the turnover attempts he was trying and proper positioning to execute the pass interceptions he was trying. It really looked like he was trying to emulate Doan and Boedker and just didn't quite have the timing and positioning right.

I don't see that education happening with the Coyotes coaching staff. He gets punished for taking penalties. He get punished for not playing defense. No one seems to be getting through to him how to play effective defense without taking penalties.

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04-05-2009, 04:41 PM
  #46
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Especially the coaching staff part, if they can't be counted on to improve players who clearly have talent but need some work, seriously, what the **** are they good for then?!
Word. Plenty (I'd even argue most) rookies come into the NHL with something wrong with them. It should be worked with if they show the potential. Lisin at his best make Lisin's problems worth being dealt with.

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04-06-2009, 03:43 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yakko View Post
Seriously. I think you were reading too much into what I said. I am not expecting the coaching staff to teach him to work hard. I really do not think effort is Lisin's problem. It is decision making and confidence. That might even be a good reason for him to spend a little more time in the AHL, but he isn't in the AHL. He's in the NHL and the team isn't playing him so the only thing left is for the team to teach him what he needs. The coaching staff is failing.

Lisin was trying to play better defense earlier in the season and took a lot of minors doing it. It is unfortunate, but he took a lot of border line penalties trying to lift and hook opposing players sticks, and it left him discouraged. He needs to learn timing to execute the turnover attempts he was trying and proper positioning to execute the pass interceptions he was trying. It really looked like he was trying to emulate Doan and Boedker and just didn't quite have the timing and positioning right.

I don't see that education happening with the Coyotes coaching staff. He gets punished for taking penalties. He get punished for not playing defense. No one seems to be getting through to him how to play effective defense without taking penalties.
Agreed. 100%
I hope that Lisin can find a new NHL team in the offseason, he's obsvioully misplayed in here.

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Old
04-06-2009, 04:16 AM
  #48
yakko
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Agreed. 100%
I hope that Lisin can find a new NHL team in the offseason, he's obsvioully misplayed in here.
That is what really annoys me. I want the Coyotes to succeed. I want Lisin to succeed. It really appears those things are mutually exclusive.

How sad is it that the Coyotes cannot handle a world class skater and promising prospect like Lisin? They put him in the AHL and he proved he was willing to play there. If they want him to learn to play defense, leave him there until he does. They bring him up to the NHL and do not play him.

Can the Coyotes get a coach? Please?

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Old
04-06-2009, 05:33 AM
  #49
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Coaches at the NHL level are there to improve technique, plan strategy and tactics, and keep players in shape. It is usually assumed that a player that has REACHED the NHL level has enough self-motivation and drive to stay in the league on their own.

In other words, the Coyotes' coaches SHOULD be able to fix Enver's defensive deficiencies, but there's nothing at all they can do to get him to give a consistent effort. THAT is up to him.
Our coaches certainly excel at this.

Improve technique? Lisin hasn't improved much defensively. Bryz has never improved his gaping "3" hole from left to right lateral movement. How many players have failed here? Too many. It's like a woman picking a one dimensional man and then wondering why it takes so long to spontaneously (w/o proper coaching) become the complete package.

Plan strategy and tactics? One word...."systems"???????

Keep players in shape? Have you seen Yandle's gut? Mueller's skating? Turris's 13 y/o body? How many times have the fans heard that the failing second half of the seasons were due to it being a long season and the players are worn down? How long have the elderly ruled in Detroit?

I agree that NHL coaches should be able to do these things but they're also suppose to be mentors not just golf instructors. The fact that The God-awful One (TGO) and company can't do these above fundamental duties just further proves to me that the team's cultural change needs to start with a change in coaching personnel.

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Old
04-20-2009, 10:55 PM
  #50
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First of all, everyone who has knocked Lisin for his "work ethic" has not watched this guy enough. I have watched many games that he has been in the line up, and noticed that he works hard along the boards, and finishes hits. His defensive game is lacking, however it is not as bad as his +/- would indicate. He doesn't float -he comes back, he is just doesn't always know where to be all the time: this takes time and coaching to develop. Not to mention the horrible team he plays on does not help his +/- either.
2nd, I don't think there is a team in the league right now that is wrecking half as many prospects as phoenix. There is simply no direction with this team. At one point they had 3 goons in the line up, what does a last place team have any business with 3 goons on the team?

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