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List of 3rd Period collapses under Tortarella

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Old
04-02-2009, 09:58 PM
  #1
GWOW
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List of 3rd Period collapses under Tortarella

So far under Torts:

Feb 25 @Tor: blew 1-0 lead in 3rd pd -- Lost 2-1 in SO
Feb 26 Fla: blew 1-0 lead in 3rd pd -- Lost 2-1 in regulation
Mar 8 Bos: blew 3-1 lead in 3rd pd -- won 4-3
Mar 17 @Mon : blew leads of 2-1 and 3-2 in third -- won SO
Mar 22 Ott: gave up GAG in 3rd pd of 1-1 game -- lost 2-1
Mar 26 @ATL -- blew 4-2 lead in 3rd -- lost 5-4 in SO
Mar 28@Pit -- gave up GAG in 3rd after 3-3 tie -- lost 4-3
Apr 2@ Car: gave up GAG in 3rd after 2-2 tie -- lost 4-2

There you have it -- instead of a reasonable 5-0-3 record for 13 points (considering they lose in OT or SO against Ott, Pit and Caro), they went 2-4-2 for 6 points while concurrently giving extra points to Florida (2), Habs (1) and Canes (1)

I like Torts for what he brings and maybe he is the right guy for this team, but that right there is a friggin problem. I know we had the same problem under Renney, so i am not blaming the coach for all this.

It just shows the lack of leadership, fundamentals and dedication this team has when it matters. At least that's what i think.

Part of it has to do with goaltending, bad penalties etc, but I just outline games in which the Rangers threw away anywhere from 7-10 points in the standings.

I personally don't consider the Renney games in which we collapsed because we also had out share of last second wins against Boston, the Pens etc.

I just think this is a major problem and is what i will point to when.if we dont make the playoffs.

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04-02-2009, 10:01 PM
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I also want to add that giving up a go-ahead goal in the 3rd period is far from a collapse, but it shows that they are still failing to grasp the importance of that extra point.

Looking back at the 2007 and 2008 seasons in which we snuck into the playoffs, i think a big part were some terrible losses teams behind us had which enabled us to make it.

No it looks like the shoe is on the other foot.

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04-02-2009, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scipio Africanus View Post
So far under Torts:

Feb 25 @Tor: blew 1-0 lead in 3rd pd -- Lost 2-1 in SO
Feb 26 Fla: blew 1-0 lead in 3rd pd -- Lost 2-1 in regulation
Mar 8 Bos: blew 3-1 lead in 3rd pd -- won 4-3
Mar 17 @Mon : blew leads of 2-1 and 3-2 in third -- won SO
Mar 22 Ott: gave up GAG in 3rd pd of 1-1 game -- lost 2-1
Mar 26 @ATL -- blew 4-2 lead in 3rd -- lost 5-4 in SO
Mar 28@Pit -- gave up GAG in 3rd after 3-3 tie -- lost 4-3
Apr 2@ Car: gave up GAG in 3rd after 2-2 tie -- lost 4-2

There you have it -- instead of a reasonable 5-0-3 record for 13 points (considering they lose in OT or SO against Ott, Pit and Caro), they went 2-4-2 for 6 points while concurrently giving extra points to Florida (2), Habs (1) and Canes (1)

I like Torts for what he brings and maybe he is the right guy for this team, but that right there is a friggin problem. I know we had the same problem under Renney, so i am not blaming the coach for all this.

It just shows the lack of leadership, fundamentals and dedication this team has when it matters. At least that's what i think.

Part of it has to do with goaltending, bad penalties etc, but I just outline games in which the Rangers threw away anywhere from 7-10 points in the standings.

I personally don't consider the Renney games in which we collapsed because we also had out share of last second wins against Boston, the Pens etc.

I just think this is a major problem and is what i will point to when.if we dont make the playoffs.
The biggest problem is conditioning and an inability to play this style of hockey for 60 minutes methinks. They just look to constantly run out of gas.

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04-02-2009, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
The biggest problem is conditioning and an inability to play this style of hockey for 60 minutes methinks. They just look to constantly run out of gas.
Staal looked gassed the entire game. With Rozsival out, he's leaned on the top 4 heavily and it appears to be taking a toll. Rozy can't come back soon enough.

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04-02-2009, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
The biggest problem is conditioning and an inability to play this style of hockey for 60 minutes methinks. They just look to constantly run out of gas.
Isnt it the coaches job to recognize this problem and prepare accordingly?

Maybe safe isn't death when your team is consistently laying eggs in the third period.

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04-02-2009, 10:06 PM
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Agree with you to some extent, Renney had has fair share of 3rd period collapses due to sitting back and playing safe, Torts has 3rd period collapses due to playing too aggressive and giving up an odd-man rush.

Games in which we are tied going into the 3rd and give up a goal I would not necessarily call a collapse, for example, tonight we never had the lead to begin with. But it does indicate that we are not a good 3rd period team.

In the end, it comes down to the team. No killer instinct, no clutchness (Drury, I'm still waiting for you to "turn the corner"), lackadaisacal play, and boneheaded mistakes. Unfortunately we will probably have to deal with this nonsense until Sather retires/dies of natural causes/gets killed in a murderous rage by pissed off fans.

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04-02-2009, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Isnt it the coaches job to recognizes this problem and prepare accordingly?

Maybe safe isn't death when your team is consistently laying eggs in the third period.

I agree to a certain extent. But we all know how stubborn coaches are. Renney was too safe while Torts has no idea what the word means.

I really don't think it is a coaching issue. I think it has to do with the team's personality.

Look at the guys who are constantly playing all-out: Prucha, Cally, Avery, Dubi, Mara, Korpedo, Betts, Sjo -- all young guys who have something to prove or guys playing for a contract next season.



We get none of that from our other vets or "leaders". Only Antro and Morris have shown some fight in them, but they are playing for contracts. Let's not forget that both guys had terrible reputations before they got here

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04-02-2009, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Isnt it the coaches job to recognize this problem and prepare accordingly?

Maybe safe isn't death when your team is consistently laying eggs in the third period.
I dont think its that simple. You cant just change the way you are playing from one period to the next like you are flipping a switch. Tortorella is trying to implement a style of play. Its going to take time to do so and its not going to be a complete thing starting in the middle of the stretch run. I think we just have to suck it up this year and move on to next season so the style can be fully implemented.

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04-02-2009, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
Agree with you to some extent, Renney had has fair share of 3rd period collapses due to sitting back and playing safe, Torts has 3rd period collapses due to playing too aggressive and giving up an odd-man rush.

Games in which we are tied going into the 3rd and give up a goal I would not necessarily call a collapse, for example, tonight we never had the lead to begin with. But it does indicate that we are not a good 3rd period team.

In the end, it comes down to the team. No killer instinct, no clutchness (Drury, I'm still waiting for you to "turn the corner"), lackadaisacal play, and boneheaded mistakes. Unfortunately we will probably have to deal with this nonsense until Sather retires/dies of natural causes/gets killed in a murderous rage by pissed off fans.


Poor Drury. The guy can do no right.

I personally thought we gave him all that money because when we played the tie games late in the third period during the stretch drive is where he would make his money.

You'll see. Drury will get traded at some point and at 38 years old will score 15 playoff goals, including 12 in a six-game series against us.

It always works out that way.

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04-02-2009, 10:16 PM
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lets also not forget Torts is 9-6-1 as our coach, while having to contend with the most difficult schedule in the entire NHL during the 2nd half of the season...9-6-1 is 97 point hockey everyone, which is excellent especially when you consider we were 5-8-3 in the 16 games before Torts got here

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04-02-2009, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Korpicowski View Post
I dont think its that simple. You cant just change the way you are playing from one period to the next like you are flipping a switch. Tortorella is trying to implement a style of play. Its going to take time to do so and its not going to be a complete thing starting in the middle of the stretch run. I think we just have to suck it up this year and move on to next season so the style can be fully implemented.

I agree, and with the right players who fit into that system.

Which means bye-bye redden, drury, naslund....

I can dream, can't I

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04-02-2009, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scipio Africanus View Post
I agree to a certain extent. But we all know how stubborn coaches are. Renney was too safe while Torts has no idea what the word means.

I really don't think it is a coaching issue. I think it has to do with the team's personality.

Look at the guys who are constantly playing all-out: Prucha, Cally, Avery, Dubi, Mara, Korpedo, Betts, Sjo -- all young guys who have something to prove or guys playing for a contract next season.



We get none of that from our other vets or "leaders". Only Antro and Morris have shown some fight in them, but they are playing for contracts. Let's not forget that both guys had terrible reputations before they got here
The Prucha obsession must end.

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04-02-2009, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Scipio Africanus View Post
I agree, and with the right players who fit into that system.

Which means bye-bye redden, drury, naslund....

I can dream, can't I
I think Naslund is gone. I think he will demand a trade with the lack of playing time. Now the Redden and Drury parts are a dream. (a very nice dream at that)

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04-02-2009, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Korpicowski View Post
I dont think its that simple. You cant just change the way you are playing from one period to the next like you are flipping a switch. Tortorella is trying to implement a style of play. Its going to take time to do so and its not going to be a complete thing starting in the middle of the stretch run. I think we just have to suck it up this year and move on to next season so the style can be fully implemented.
The good teams do it all the time. Then again, Torts or no Torts, this is not a good team. All Im saying is it might be wise to pull in the reigns a little in the 3rd, especially when the team has a lead.

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04-02-2009, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
The good teams do it all the time. Then again, Torts or no Torts, this is not a good team. All Im saying is it might be wise to pull in the reigns a little in the 3rd, especially when the team has a lead.
how were those goals scored again? where we gave up the lead tonight? 1 with all 5 men back in the zone, where they were all stick checking instead of playing the body, and one off a crazy screen and bounce?

How does reigning it in stop those 2 goals?

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04-02-2009, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
lets also not forget Torts is 9-6-1 as our coach, while having to contend with the most difficult schedule in the entire NHL during the 2nd half of the season...9-6-1 is 97 point hockey everyone, which is excellent especially when you consider we were 5-8-3 in the 16 games before Torts got here
Completely shameless.

Looking at it objectively (you should try it sometime!), I see a team thats plays much differently but is just as inconsistent and often times just as frustrating as it was the first 50 games of the season.

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04-02-2009, 10:24 PM
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IMO, it just looks like our guys dont trust themselves to attack in the 3rd periods and fall under the spell of trying to not make mistakes instead of trying to make the opposition make mistakes.

It is predictable and concerning because if you cant attack now. Then how are you going to attack in 3rd periods of close games in the playoffs?

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04-02-2009, 10:24 PM
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That is indeed a list of times that the team has failed in the 3rd, but what about when they don't? What's the ratio between that and games where they don't collapse? Or, what about games where they are behind or tied going into the third that they win?

Of course, the answer is going to look more like a record.


And I got to tell you guys... better to play two periods and then take one off than get dominated for two and fight back in the third.

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04-02-2009, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
how were those goals scored again? where we gave up the lead tonight? 1 with all 5 men back in the zone, where they were all stick checking instead of playing the body, and one off a crazy screen and bounce?

How does reigning it in stop those 2 goals?
You mean the 5 guys that were totally gassed and seemingly couldnt take the body because they were running up and down the rink all night? Those 5 guys?

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04-02-2009, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
The good teams do it all the time. Then again, Torts or no Torts, this is not a good team. All Im saying is it might be wise to pull in the reigns a little in the 3rd, especially when the team has a lead.
I dont think you are being fair. Its not an easy thing to do. When a coach comes in and wants to play a high pressure game, ridding the team of all the lifeless sitting back and demands that his players attack, he cant just say "oh, its the 3rd period, lets sit back." The team has to attack no matter what or they will fall back into the same boring, gutless "Tom Renney" hockey that this team played before Tortorella. There is no doubt that this team will be much better off with a training camp of the attack style under its belt. It is too difficult to make such a drastic change mid-season, nonetheless to go back to the old style in select situations.

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04-02-2009, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Korpicowski View Post
I dont think you are being fair. Its not an easy thing to do. When a coach comes in and wants to play a high pressure game, ridding the team of all the lifeless sitting back and demands that his players attack, he cant just say "oh, its the 3rd period, lets sit back." The team has to attack no matter what or they will fall back into the same boring, gutless "Tom Renney" hockey that this team played before Tortorella. There is no doubt that this team will be much better off with a training camp of the attack style under its belt. It is too difficult to make such a drastic change mid-season, nonetheless to go back to the old style in select situations.
After the Pittsburgh game, Tortarella admitted the defense was being too aggressive. They made an adjustment and had their best game of the season against the Devils. Making adjustments, even in-game ones, are not that difficult and often necessary.

We can argue about it being a difficult thing to do or not, but if this team cant do it, theyll continue to be gassed, continue to have brutal 3rd periods, and attack their way right out of the playoffs.

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04-02-2009, 10:41 PM
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After the Pittsburgh game, Tortarella admitted the defense was being too aggressive. They made an adjustment and had their best game of the season against the Devils. Making adjustments, even in-game ones, are not that difficult and often necessary.

We can argue about it being a difficult thing to do or not, but if this team cant do it, theyll continue to be gassed, continue to have brutal 3rd periods, and attack their way right out of the playoffs.
Did the Rangers have their best game of the season or did the Devils just suck?

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04-02-2009, 10:50 PM
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Did the Rangers have their best game of the season or did the Devils just suck?
Probably a little bit of both.

My whole point in this is theres going to be an entire offseason and training camp for Tortarella to get his type of players in here and employ his type of system.

Right now, he has to deal with what hes got and get the team into the playoffs.

And please dont say 'Well, it doesnt matter since this team is going nowhere in the playoffs anyway.' Thats a loser's mentality...and stranger things have happened in the tournament.

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04-02-2009, 11:26 PM
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In torts' 17 games as coach, they've given up 20 3rd period goals.

However, in the previous 61, they gave up 61 (81 total). For whatever reason it seems worse under Torts, but it really isn't.

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04-03-2009, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
The biggest problem is conditioning and an inability to play this style of hockey for 60 minutes methinks. They just look to constantly run out of gas.
I also think the mentality of the players while up a goal in the 3rd may still be reverting back to a renneyesce state of mind, when they play balls out for 60 minutes they win, when they get a lead and turtle they lose, as see when a team ties it early in the third we usually come on strong again, team needs to break the mental habit of trying to lock down a win and not put a nail in the coffin

nails in the coffin needs to go up on torts bulletin board

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