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Johan Frazen

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Old
04-07-2009, 10:47 AM
  #51
Prussian_Blue
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Originally Posted by FissionFire View Post
I got news for homer Blues mods, try not to let your hatred of a team blind you to the facts. Stick to the Blues board if the best you can do is snipe and try to start a flame war.
As for the officiating comments, both you and your own source indicate that Detroit gets a much more favorable overall game call at home than on the road. I've been watching Blues-Detroit games for years, and I can honestly say I don't recall a single time when the Blues had a lead in the third period, and Detroit didn't get at least one questionable call in their favor that resulted in a Red Wing power play and a chance to get the game tied up.

It happened again last Thursday, when the Blues had a 4-3 lead in the third, and a very questionable "boarding" penalty was called on David Backes; Detroit's ability to control the pace of the game on the subsequent power play led directly to the game-tying goal by Kronwall, which came about twenty seconds after the power play had officially ended.

As for the rest, I'll ignore your homerism, and your cheap shots at me, to point out that my initial post on this subject was to say that:

1. I considered Franzen a good, but not elite, player.

2. In my opinion, non-elite players should not get contracts in excess of $5 million a year.

3. I did not expect Franzen -- at his age, and with his injury history -- to play a role on any other team than Detroit which would provide him the opportunity to score 30 goals again.

Then the Detroit partisans came along and started attacking me, questioning my level of knowledge and involvement with the game, so I fired back. The "sniping' and "flame war," such as they are, were not started by me...

Was I obsequiously complimentary to Franzen? Hell, no... just like you would not be complimentary to Backes or any other Blue that has been a thorn in your team's side for several years.

I'll "stick" to whatever board I choose to "stick" to, thank you very much, and if I have an opinion, I'll express it. You can decide for yourself wether you think it's an informed opinion or not, but it's not really your place -- or mine -- to come out on this board and tell the world what we think about each other's opinion.

If you have an issue with me, take it to PM's. If you disagree with my opinion, disagree away... but don't make it personal.

Run along and continue this little Johan Franzen love-fest now; I've said what I have to say about it.

P_B

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Old
04-07-2009, 10:58 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FissionFire View Post
Leafs fan? If his name wasn't a giveaway his Roman Polak avatar probably should have been that he's a Blues fan.
I'm talking about the guy whom the homer Mod quoted to fuel his diatribe.

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Old
04-07-2009, 11:34 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
As for the officiating comments, both you and your own source indicate that Detroit gets a much more favorable overall game call at home than on the road. I've been watching Blues-Detroit games for years, and I can honestly say I don't recall a single time when the Blues had a lead in the third period, and Detroit didn't get at least one questionable call in their favor that resulted in a Red Wing power play and a chance to get the game tied up.

It happened again last Thursday, when the Blues had a 4-3 lead in the third, and a very questionable "boarding" penalty was called on David Backes; Detroit's ability to control the pace of the game on the subsequent power play led directly to the game-tying goal by Kronwall, which came about twenty seconds after the power play had officially ended.

As for the rest, I'll ignore your homerism, and your cheap shots at me, to point out that my initial post on this subject was to say that:

1. I considered Franzen a good, but not elite, player.

2. In my opinion, non-elite players should not get contracts in excess of $5 million a year.

3. I did not expect Franzen -- at his age, and with his injury history -- to play a role on any other team than Detroit which would provide him the opportunity to score 30 goals again.

Then the Detroit partisans came along and started attacking me, questioning my level of knowledge and involvement with the game, so I fired back. The "sniping' and "flame war," such as they are, were not started by me...

Was I obsequiously complimentary to Franzen? Hell, no... just like you would not be complimentary to Backes or any other Blue that has been a thorn in your team's side for several years.

I'll "stick" to whatever board I choose to "stick" to, thank you very much, and if I have an opinion, I'll express it. You can decide for yourself wether you think it's an informed opinion or not, but it's not really your place -- or mine -- to come out on this board and tell the world what we think about each other's opinion.

If you have an issue with me, take it to PM's. If you disagree with my opinion, disagree away... but don't make it personal.

Run along and continue this little Johan Franzen love-fest now; I've said what I have to say about it.

P_B
Ignoring the Bitter Blues Emorage about penalties. I mostly agree with you. Franzen is not someone you should build a team around. That being said someone (some one stupid) will/would offer him 5M+ a year. I frankly will be grateful that it isnt detroit.

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Old
04-09-2009, 09:49 AM
  #54
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Lets put a twist on this...

What would your team offer for the rights to Franzen before July 1st conditional on signing?

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Old
04-09-2009, 12:36 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
Which I didn't.

I have news for all the Detroit fans here, and everywhere... every guy that plays for the Red Wings is not the greatest thing that ever laced on skates.

As I said, if Franzen goes anywhere but Detroit, he never gets close to 30 goals again.

He stays in Detroit, with the best team (and most favorable officiating) money can buy, he'll get 30 again.

P_B
i completely disagree.

franzen's main weakness is that he seems to have not very good vision or hockey sense.

he is rarely involved in passing plays that datsyuk and zetterberg are known for. i don't think he gets into scoring position, especially the slot, enough.

most of his goals are the result of individual talent or effort.

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Old
04-09-2009, 01:02 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
"Command?"

They'll certainly ask for $5 million-plus, but good luck getting it.

Franzenstein is a good player, but not elite, and non-elite guys don't get -- or deserve -- $5 million-plus.

82 goals in 287 games over four seasons are not $5 million production figures...
Really? Really? Maybe he doesn't deserve $5m but as someone who has surely seen his/her share of free agent frenzies, you can't possibly tell me you don't think some team out there wouldn't be desperate enough to pay Franzen that much money if he really wanted to get it? I shouldn't even need to quote all the ridiculous UFA overpayments over the years that would point to this being true.

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Old
04-09-2009, 02:59 PM
  #57
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13 goals in the playoffs last year is more than the entire blues roster has scored the last few years.

It's great that you feel non-elite player shouldn't make over 5mil a season, but I really don't think the players, NHLPA, NHL, and agents care what a homer mod on HFBoards thinks. Considering guys like Malone(6mil, 4.5cap), Horcoff, Drury, Kariya, and Richards all make upwards of 5million, the reality of salaries in the NHL is obviously too complicated for you to understand and goes against your "opinion".

The fact is, Franzen has put up 33 goals, is around a 40 goal pace over 82 games, is versatile in that he can play center or wing, good defensively, and a big body make him a very valuable commodity, especially for teams like the Habs and Pens. He's also become a gamebreaker and has scored multiple highlight reel goals, such as his beautiful goal against the Blue recently.

But you're probably right, he's only good because of the Wings system, and the fact that they get so many power plays just given to them from the refs. That's really the only reason the Wings even have a franchise anymore, the NHL needed a good team in the Central to get the fans of the other four teams to actually go to 8 games a year, so they HAD to have Detroit be great.

Yes, it all makes sense!

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04-09-2009, 03:06 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myshkin View Post
13 goals in the playoffs last year is more than the entire blues roster has scored the last few years.

It's great that you feel non-elite player shouldn't make over 5mil a season, but I really don't think the players, NHLPA, NHL, and agents care what a homer mod on HFBoards thinks. Considering guys like Malone(6mil, 4.5cap), Horcoff, Drury, Kariya, and Richards all make upwards of 5million, the reality of salaries in the NHL is obviously too complicated for you to understand and goes against your "opinion".

The fact is, Franzen has put up 33 goals, is around a 40 goal pace over 82 games, is versatile in that he can play center or wing, good defensively, and a big body make him a very valuable commodity, especially for teams like the Habs and Pens. He's also become a gamebreaker and has scored multiple highlight reel goals, such as his beautiful goal against the Blue recently.
Richards is in his second 70+ point season, he doesnt really belong with those other guys. Unless you are talking about Brad

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Old
04-09-2009, 03:24 PM
  #59
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Richards is in his second 70+ point season, he doesnt really belong with those other guys. Unless you are talking about Brad
Yes, I thought that was quite obvious. Mike is awesome, Brad not so much.

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Old
04-09-2009, 03:29 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
I wouldn't give you a dime for him...

And no, it ain't just Blues' fan sour grapes. There are any number of players on the Wings and in their organization that I like (or at least have great respect for).

But Franzenstein ain't one of em.

P_B
Eh? What you mean? I can´t see that you´re serious?

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Old
04-10-2009, 06:31 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
1. I considered Franzen a good, but not elite, player.

2. In my opinion, non-elite players should not get contracts in excess of $5 million a year.

3. I did not expect Franzen -- at his age, and with his injury history -- to play a role on any other team than Detroit which would provide him the opportunity to score 30 goals again.

Was I obsequiously complimentary to Franzen? Hell, no... just like you would not be complimentary to Backes or any other Blue that has been a thorn in your team's side for several years.

P_B
Well at least you admit you're bias (bolded), and it's this fact that has people jumping on you and your opinion.
That, and "I wouldn't give you a dime for him..." is pretty obviously an attempt to be inflammatory. As a mod, you should of known exactly the reaction you were going to garner.


No matter how much I, or others, agree with you that non-elite players should not get more than $5million/yr, it doesn't change the fact that they do.
- Smyth, Havlat, Perry, Tanguay, Rolston, Nylander (and countless Dmen)... and few others depending on your personal definition of elite.
So that argument is essentially irrelevant.

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Old
04-10-2009, 08:17 PM
  #62
19 for president
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Franzen I think would very likely put up around 30 goals on most teams in the NHL. His assists would likely be the thing that goes down. The guy has a lazer shot, is incredibly strong, and has very soft hands. 90% of his goals are scored off of individual effort. The guy is abosolutely clutch and would be an asset to any playoff team for that matter. He is as good as most guys make 5 mil out there, but will not get that in Detroit. He isn't a superstar but he is an elite complimentary player. He can screen the net on the PP, score at ES, gets tons of GWers, and can play the PK. He is a very valuable player overall. The only different is on another team he'd likely face better defensive units that currently but at the same time he'd get a lot more PP time and probably not have to focus on defense as much as he does playing for the Wings.

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Old
04-11-2009, 03:56 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by DL44 View Post
(Went thru 7 pages of "value of" threads and didn't see anything on the guy)
Likely, it's due to the fact you mispelled his last name. It's Franzen (not Frazen) and while I don't think I've seen a value of thread, his rights are frequently brought up in trade proposals.

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