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Pick one for your team: Thornton or Kovalchuk

View Poll Results: Pick one for your team: Thornton or Kovalchuk
Joe Thornton 84 44.44%
Ilya Kovalchuk 105 55.56%
Voters: 189. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-04-2009, 12:41 AM
  #26
David McConnor
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Thornton. Easy choice.

Kovalchuk is a head case.

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Old
04-04-2009, 12:42 AM
  #27
Habsfan18
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Kovalchuk.

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Old
04-04-2009, 12:58 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lime View Post
Thornton. Easy choice.

Kovalchuk is a head case.
Ummm...in what way? He has never shown any sign of that.

Kovalchuk. Easy choice. If he can score as much as he does with crap on his line, imagine what he could do with 1st or 2nd tier linemates.

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Old
04-04-2009, 01:35 AM
  #29
silkyjohnson50
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Originally Posted by Myshkin View Post
Kovalchuk - Datsyuk - Hossa

GG.
That would be a nightmare of a line, and i don't mean in a good sense.

Hossa and Kovalchuk are both players that are probably at their best when they create and attack by themselves. Datsyuk on the other hand is the player that he is in large part because of his ability to control the puck and thus the tempo of the game when he's on the ice. That combo would be like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Simply not enough puck to go around.

And in fact, in an interview earlier this season, Datsyuk was asked who he'd most like to have as a linemate... His answer? He said obviously he'd love to play with Zetterberg, but if he had to pick another player it would be Big Joe.


And as far as the general topic goes, I'd take Thornton.

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Old
04-04-2009, 01:41 AM
  #30
FutureConsiderations
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Without a doubt, hands down, no question: Ilya Kovalchuk.

Krejci, Savard, and Bergeron can hold down center just fine (as it is, it's kind of insulting to have Bergey in the #3 slot) but Kovalchuk might just replace Kessel and Ryder. No doubt, Kovalchuk on Savard's or Krejci's wing was/would be an elite pairing up front.

The Thornton trade wasn't good for Boston but JT's performance in black and gold did leave a little to be desired. Points like you wouldn't believe, but lacked the leadership you might expect from a franchise player and he always benefited from a Samsonov/Murray type player who hurt the team on the whole.


Last edited by FutureConsiderations: 04-04-2009 at 01:50 AM.
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Old
04-04-2009, 01:59 AM
  #31
Dark Shadows
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Originally Posted by PotaGuitar View Post
So you're telling me that this year you would rather have Thornton on the Sharks than Kovalchuk, your reasoning being that he makes as you put it "average/Below average players look great while putting up huge point totals no matter who his linemates are." The last time I checked, he played the majority of the year with Marleau and Setoguchi, who are in no way slouches in the slightest. IMO Thornton is a guy that you would rather have on a team like Atlanta, where guys need someone to feed them great passes for goals, whereas on a team like SJ you have Marleau, Seto, Milan , Pavs and many others that can create opportunities for themselves.
Its very simple. Thornton has constantly proved he can and will produce big numbers no matter who you stick on his line.

You can cite the offensive strength of the team THIS YEAR in order to make your argument look better. The fact of the matter is, with near the same team and players last year, Thornton was the ONLY guy producing offensively.

Quote:
And if you want to look at it from a cap perspective, do you really want average/below average players overachieving on a line with Jumbo during a contract year, and demanding an inflated contract the next season for their efforts? Add to the fact that Kovalchuk is only 25 and is yet to enter his prime.
This argument is dumb. In essence, you are saying you do not want team success so that you can keep contracts down.

Uh and for the record, statistically among forwards, Kovalchuk is already halfway in his prime. 22-28 is when the bulk of forwards put up their best numbers.

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When your first line is composed of average players is when you need Jumbo the most, not when you already have an all-star player in Marleau.
Slow down bud. Marleau is hot one year, not the next. If you were relying on Marleau last season and the team did not have Joe, its likely SJ would not have made the playoffs. Marleau is a very good player, but he would not be scoring over 75 points without big Joe(Even the last few years when not on the same line, the majority of Marleau's Points come from Joe's PP every year).

Both Marc Savard and Marian Hossa were better than Patrick Marleau(Or anyone else Joe ever played with) and Kovalchuk had them but still fell short of Joe's totals, by, well, alot.

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Old
04-04-2009, 02:03 AM
  #32
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Ovechkin-Thornton-Kovalchuk would be a sick line.

Ovechkin-Crosby-Kovalchuk also.

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Old
04-04-2009, 02:06 AM
  #33
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Kovalchuk for Vancouver. We have too many playmakers on this team, although scoring goals hasn't been a problem this season (phew).

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Old
04-04-2009, 02:18 AM
  #34
PotaGuitar
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Originally Posted by Thornton_19 View Post

You can cite the offensive strength of the team THIS YEAR in order to make your argument look better.
That's what the OP is asking for genius. Who do you want for your team? It's not, "who was better to have last year or the year before that"



Quote:
Originally Posted by Thornton_19 View Post

Kovalchuk is already halfway in his prime. 22-28 is when the bulk of forwards put up their best numbers.
This argument is dumb, by your standards, you're saying that a 29 year old Jumbo Joe is out of his prime already and yet you would still take him over Kovalchuk who is "halfway in his prime" as you put it.


There is no true right answer to a question like this. They're both great players. You have your opinion and I have mine. End of story


Last edited by PotaGuitar: 04-04-2009 at 02:28 AM.
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Old
04-04-2009, 02:29 AM
  #35
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I honestly can't vote, because it's so close to me. Depends on which type of player a team needs more. All things being equal, they're very close, Kovalchuk maybe more skilled by a hair.

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Old
04-04-2009, 08:53 AM
  #36
Dark Shadows
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[QUOTE=PotaGuitar;18865716]That's what the OP is asking for genius. Who do you want for your team? It's not, "who was better to have last year or the year before that"
[quote]
Yes, and the parameters of "Who do you want for your team" after taking position into account, should be to take the best player. Thornton is clearly a better player, more complete often MVP candidate, while Kovalchuk is not.



Quote:
This argument is dumb, by your standards, you're saying that a 29 year old Jumbo Joe is out of his prime already and yet you would still take him over Kovalchuk who is "halfway in his prime" as you put it.

There is no true right answer to a question like this. They're both great players. You have your opinion and I have mine. End of story
Not all players come out of their prime within that timeframe(Joe Sakic), but the vast majority of them start scoring within that timeframe with the odd exception here and there who get lost behind better players with less icetime on the lower lines(Lecavalier)

Kovalchuk is certainly already in his prime and he had terrific linemates(Hossa/Savard/Heatley) for years.

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Old
04-04-2009, 10:02 AM
  #37
tony d
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Joe Thornton

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Old
04-04-2009, 10:15 AM
  #38
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With their first pick, the Habs take Joe Thornton... every time. I personally would be tempted to take Kovy though. The guy is just a scoring machine.

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04-04-2009, 12:34 PM
  #39
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Well it didn't work out with Joe the 1st time,would have to go with Kovalchuk now

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04-04-2009, 12:41 PM
  #40
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Thornton easily. He's the backbone of our team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PotaGuitar View Post
That's what the OP is asking for genius. Who do you want for your team? It's not, "who was better to have last year or the year before that"




This argument is dumb, by your standards, you're saying that a 29 year old Jumbo Joe is out of his prime already and yet you would still take him over Kovalchuk who is "halfway in his prime" as you put it.


There is no true right answer to a question like this. They're both great players. You have your opinion and I have mine. End of story
You need to watch more hockey.

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Old
04-04-2009, 02:51 PM
  #41
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ATL has Kovalchuk already...so I'll take Thornton to feed him the puck.

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04-04-2009, 02:51 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thornton_19 View Post
Not all players come out of their prime within that timeframe(Joe Sakic), but the vast majority of them start scoring within that timeframe with the odd exception here and there who get lost behind better players with less icetime on the lower lines(Lecavalier)

Kovalchuk is certainly already in his prime and he had terrific linemates(Hossa/Savard/Heatley) for years.
What makes you think Kovalchuk will stop producing when he hits 29? You are using an argument to support one player, whilst completly neglecting that it will porbably support Kovalchuk as well. Kovalchuk isn't suddenly going to stop producing as he gets older. His skillset is simply too good for that. He plays a style of game where physical stress isn't going to be a factor, he has an array of disgusting shots that will cater for him well into his 30's and is blessed with elite stickhandling. The only thing he wil eventually lose is a step, but his other skills mean he will remain an elite producer.

I do believe Kovy barely played with Hossa at ES, whilst he hasn't played with Savard/Heatley for quite a few years. His support cast (not just one star teammate, but a good core of talent to play with) has been non existent for large parts of his NHL tenure. Personally i don't think it makes that much difference to his production. I think he scores roughly the same with or without a great core around him.

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04-04-2009, 03:55 PM
  #43
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Kovalchuk, we already have Thornton.

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Old
04-04-2009, 04:02 PM
  #44
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Pretty easy choice... cannot believe Kovy is winning. Thornton makes all his teammates better and can be straight up dominating with the puck.

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Old
04-04-2009, 04:04 PM
  #45
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I'd take Thornton for the Hawks. I'd have Jumbo feeding Sharp on the top line, Toews and Kane going at it on a second line and Bolland, Havlat and Ladd doing their thing on the third. *****!

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Old
04-04-2009, 04:07 PM
  #46
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I don't think, over their careers, Kovalchuk has had significantly better linemates, and Joe's production dominates his. Also, Joe can score when he has too, he's not like Henrik Sedin of 06-07 or anything. I'm torn between the two for the canucks, but I take Thornton. He can produce with anyone. You could put him on the third line with Pyatt and Bernier and it could be a great line.

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Old
04-04-2009, 04:36 PM
  #47
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Kovalchuk, just because he is goalscorer and he is cool. I dont think anyone dislikes the guy.

But Joe is slightly the better player overall.

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Old
04-04-2009, 04:37 PM
  #48
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For the Canucks, right now, I want Kovalchuk. With the way our top line is playing, imagine a "2nd" line of Sundin, Kovalchuk, and Kesler/Demitra.

For next year or the future, I would want Thornton, but if I could pick up one for the playoffs, Kovalchuk it is.

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Old
04-04-2009, 04:52 PM
  #49
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at this moment...kovalchuk for the canucks cuz we already have a mini (and swedish) joe in henrik and another big centre in mats so we'd have 3 potential 1st line centres but it is tough... thornton isnt a prolific goalscorer like kovalchuk... the canucks are gettin goals from everyone right now so they arent rerally having trouble scoring so its kind of hard to justify kovalchuk there too. but it would be nice to have a guy who will get you 40-50 along with daniel getting 30, henrik, kes, burr, demitra and others scoring 20 ish goals...
next yr its a whole different story if sundin isnt back.. in that case i'd take joe.. he could "replace" mats while probably doing a better job..
for the record.. i would not complain if either was on my team

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Old
04-04-2009, 05:02 PM
  #50
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I prefer players that make others around him better. Thornton does that. Kovalchuk doesn't but he is a world class finisher.

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