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Who Still Thinks It Was Renney's Fault?

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Old
04-05-2009, 01:59 AM
  #26
gravytrain6t
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
I have this gut feeling that there's going to be a bigger shakeup than anyone is thinking. I don't think Torts is happy with his top-paid defenseman and two top-paid forwards.

I think one of those three guys isn't on the team next year.
I have more than a gut feeling. Tortorella of course is a good coach. I still think the Stanley Cup is the hardest championship to win in all sports. I think everyone expected Calgary to win that series. I'm still leaning heavily toward "torts" over Renney. Playoffs or no playoffs, I think he will turn this around in due time. I really am starting to feel like and see Sather's big mistake. He want's to bring in Gomez fine. But I think we lost a better captain and leader for this team, in Jagr. Of course I'm going under the assumption that Jagr did not want to go to the KHL and wanted to stay in NY. I do not think we need Drury as much as I also don't think the Flyers need Briere. Both of them should have stayed in Buffalo.

I think there's going to major, major shakeups. First of all, I would like Naslund to be gone. I like both Drury and Gomez. I still think they are both good players. But we only need one. The other one could go. But how would we trade him, IDK. I think Drury could have been traded during the deadline like Jokinen or Guerin. Especially some teams out west might remember when Forsberg went down after having a great all around year with the Avs, and Drury kicked it into high gear and led the team a long with Sakic and Roy to a Stanley Cup. I think everyone is in agreement that the playoffs are a different game and I can see other teams who really think they can win it, want his reputation for clutch scoring, penalty killing, leadership..etc..


During the summer, I don't see Drury or Naslund going anywhere. Nas, is another player I think could have been traded at the deadline. (now the other thing is, I don't know about the NMC for these players off hand but sit them down with Tortorella and I'll bet he has the ability to make them feel like they would never want to play another game for him. I really mean that.

Another big question mark is Zherdev. I think Tortorella likes Sjostrom for some reason over Zherdev. Same with Antropov. IDK if he wants him back either. I think he wants both players back. I hope so. I wouldn't mind the two of them on the same line. I still love Antropov's size around the net. I think Tortorella is looking for more of that killer instinct from Zherdev as far as driving to the net and he has great potential. The more he shoots the puck (he'll never be an Alex O) but he'll score more goals.

Colton Orr can knock people out. Great!! everyone needs a police man or enforcer and I think he came to camp in better shape this year than prior years. I do want him back, but he's got to continue working on his skating.
I expect more productive years from Avery, Callahan, Dubinsky and Korpikoski (korpi. needs off the 4th line). But then again. IDK. Will Callahan, Dubinsky, Sjostrom, Betts, Antropov, Zherdev, Orr, and Mara all be back. Rozsival traded? Morris back to Phoenix or some place else? Gomez or Drury traded? Naslund's fate?

There are so many questions to be answered. I still haven't decided to wave the white flag though. Lets see what Pit and Fla. do tomorrow.

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04-05-2009, 02:09 AM
  #27
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The position for any coach is rather unenviable, because they have a mix and match of types of players and a lack of overall talent. The salary cap will force them to make some proactive decisions, and probably part ways with a couple of their overpaid players...

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04-05-2009, 02:46 AM
  #28
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I kind of like the idea of Schoenfeld as GM. Anyone agree?

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04-05-2009, 02:47 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MistaWrista View Post
The position for any coach is rather unenviable, because they have a mix and match of types of players and a lack of overall talent. The salary cap will force them to make some proactive decisions, and probably part ways with a couple of their overpaid players...
you're right but how do u get rid of them? We have too many of these guy's, including Drury that are good defensive forwards and penalty killers who can put up some points btw. We can't play the way Torts wants to play with guys who cant score. I shouldn't say that. Cuz it sounded more out of frustration. We looked great against N.J. and some other teams with Tortorella. Like we couldn't be beat.

Carolina. Who did they add to their team?? They look like the top team in the east right now. Maybe we don't need as many changes as we think. That team went from and estimated 10th or 11th place team to a team no one wants to face in the playoffs. I didn't think Paul Maurice was that good. But apparently.

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04-05-2009, 06:04 AM
  #31
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No the PP was all Perry Pearns fault!

And 2 years ago it was all Jagr's fault? If only he and Rozi would have shot the puck...

Now we have the worst PP ever and we do nothing but shoot the puck. Its funny, Torts also de facto knows how to run a PP, just look at the PP he had in Tampa.

We don't have a D who can play well on the PP, why should we have a good PP?

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04-05-2009, 07:16 AM
  #32
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I never blamed Renney, I didn't really want him to go and I thought we'd make it with him in charge. Still, I'm not gonna start saying bringing in Torts was a mistake yet. He's not done too bad so far.
I think Sather has to take responsibility for spending loadsa money on players who are nothing more than reasonably good.

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04-05-2009, 09:23 AM
  #33
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I like Tortarella move still. I never blamed Renney, it's the players on the ice that make up the team

Even if they make the playoffs their is going to be some change.

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04-05-2009, 09:38 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
Renney had it go. The team looks much better then they have the previous 2 months still. Look at the schedule we've played against since Torts came.

Anyway, I said before it would be gravy if we made the playoffs this year since I didnt expect the team would be able to change to an entire new system and play it well in the remaining games while every other team was in prime form with their systems by now.

It wasn't all Renney, but he was part, a decent part. Now get rid of the players who can't work in this system (NASLUND) and bring in another North South player.
I agree. They seem to be lacking something out there, especially late in game. I think a full training camp and a half season of games can remedy that. It just doesn't look like these players understand the system yet.

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04-05-2009, 10:19 AM
  #35
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Renney didn't deserve to be canned, nor did i blame hime for the on ice production (or lack thereof), what I was sure of, like many others have mentioned is that it was a time for a change in coach and system. Now, if this team continues to fail under a new system than we can be assured the players are the problem, but the month torts has had with this team is to soon to judge the system or players...

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04-05-2009, 10:26 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I stand by what i had thought originally.

The problems are 99% player personnel.

Renney didn't need to be fired, the roster needed and still needs a huge overhaul.

Tortorella gets in his own way sometimes. And with this roster, that's not helping matters.

Major changes to the roster need to be made this summer.
Thank You!

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04-05-2009, 10:28 AM
  #37
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I still think replacing Renney with Tortorella was the right move for this particular group of players at the time. However, I never thought a new coach was going to get much more out of this group of players. This team is just not that good and I’ve felt that way since this past off-season.

Why is it that anyone is surprised about where this team is right now? Does anyone really think this team is better than last year’s based on the moves they made in the offseason?

Zherdev replaced Jagr(C) (Downgrade)
Naslund replaced Shanahan(A) (Push)
Korpikoski/Dawes replaced Straka(A) (Downgrade)
Voros replaced Avery (Major Downgrade)

Kalinin replaced Strudwick/Malik/Backman(Push)
Redden replaced Tyutin (Downgrade)

This team not only lost the majority of its top end talent but also lost their veteran leadership. Say what you want about points and production but I think people underestimate the loss in the locker room of guys like Jagr, Shanahan, Straka and even Strudwick. The new veteran leadership of Gomez, Drury, Naslund have not only grossly underachieved on the ice but have failed miserably in their roles as leaders on this team. You lead by example and these guys continue to disappear when the team needs them most. Even with the deadline additions of Antropov, Morris and Avery this team is exactly where it should be, fighting for a playoff spot.

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04-05-2009, 01:00 PM
  #38
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All know is I predicted back in Sept. us not making the PO and Renney fired after Sather let Jarg, Straka, Avery and Shanny go. That was at the time when everyone was convinced we are going to be a Cup Contender...
The reason we may miss the playoffs is not the tough schedule. It was Rozy's injury.

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04-05-2009, 01:14 PM
  #39
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Even as a Renney Apologist®, I knew Tom's time had come. I thought he had lost the team/the team quit on him, and something needed to be done to shake things up. I thought that Torts would be a good choice to light a fire under these guys, and to an extent I think he succeeded. In the end though, it still comes back to personnel, and we have an ill-constructed team with redundant parts and no elite offensive talent. We are what we are, a team fighting to make the playoffs.

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04-05-2009, 01:19 PM
  #40
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straka-nylander-jagr


i miss that line

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04-05-2009, 01:30 PM
  #41
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With Tortorella:

Record:
9-7-2

Powerplay:
14-86 (16.28%)

Goal Differential:
50 goals for
43 goals against

In Games Lundqvist Gives Up 2 or Less:
7-3-1

With Renney:

Record:
31-23-7

Powerplay:
33-250 (13.2%)

Goal Differential:
151 goals for
170 goals against

In Games Lundqvist gives Up 2 or Less
23-4-2

IMO one thing that can be garnered from these stats is this team is consistent...consistently awful.

Proof enough it's the players (Sather), not Renney.

Am I/Was I against the Renney firing? No. But I felt it was an unfair evaluation of the team. Sather ****ed up, not Renney. As for bringing in Torts, as long as the buck doesn't stop their and changes continue to be made then I'm all for it. But if all Sather is planning on doing is bringing in Torts and keeping the same players, Rangers fans have some mediocre times ahead of them.

**(all of the above stats were done by my own hand so there is a margin for error but they should be 100% correct)

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04-05-2009, 02:26 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by NYRangers3018 View Post
IMO one thing that can be garnered from these stats is this team is consistent...consistently awful.

Proof enough it's the players (Sather), not Renney.

Am I/Was I against the Renney firing? No. But I felt it was an unfair evaluation of the team. Sather ****ed up, not Renney. As for bringing in Torts, as long as the buck doesn't stop their and changes continue to be made then I'm all for it. But if all Sather is planning on doing is bringing in Torts and keeping the same players, Rangers fans have some mediocre times ahead of them.
What he said ... except the adjective "awful." It's a "decent" team, exactly as its .500 record indicates.

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04-05-2009, 10:41 PM
  #43
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Good post with the stats. Shows not much has really changed because not much could have changed.

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04-06-2009, 09:18 AM
  #44
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I do think it begs the question of is the slight spike in offense a result of Tortorella or the addtions of Morris, Antropov and Avery?

Remember, it was Renney who said the team needed more size up and a shooter from the point.

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04-06-2009, 09:58 AM
  #45
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The players gave up on Renney and that was reason enough to fire him. If he was still coach we wouldn't even be talking about playoffs right now. Regardless of that, I prefer the style of play with Torts MUCH more than Renney and I think most people would agree with that.

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04-06-2009, 10:01 AM
  #46
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This was Renney's toughest year to coach. In the prior years, he had horses to lean on. He may've leaned on some too much, he may not have given others the rope or freedom perhaps he should've, but this season he didn't have the horses. That doesn't mean that he couldn't have done better, but at the same time, it doesn't mean that he should've done better. Most in here had different opinions about this coming season. Some were excited about certain additions, and others thought that this team was going to look good now that the albatross is off their back (Jagr and Shanny, in particular) and that Gomez and Drury were great leaders to help this team. Others, myself included, weren't ecstatic about the roster, and really wasn't sure of the direction given the leaders. And others believed this to be a transition year of sorts as the team would inevitably move away from dependence on a guy like Jagr, and we'll see more of a team effort (Singn', among others, correct?).

What we have here is an average team on paper. An average team fights for one of the last few playoff spots, and that's exactly what this team is doing. That would suggest that the combined coaching efforts of Renney and Torts is, well, somewhere around average to, perhaps, above average. The real fault lies in Sather. Renney did a spectacular job at the beginning of the season. He had help from Lundqvist, who played out of his mind as he saw more odd-man rushes than ever (strange in a defensive system). But somehow Renney found a forward combo that worked, found it early, used it often and his team, one that's been criticized for its conditioning of late, was a step ahead of everyone to start the season and got off to a fast start (otherwise we wouldn't even be sniffing the playoffs now). Where did Sather go wrong? He went wrong in believing the BS. He didn't recognize that it was only a matter of time that other teams catch on and catch up. Renney too, perhaps, wasn't ahead of the curve and didn't adjust, maybe believing that Voros was a 20 goal scorer and that Dubi will get 70 points while Gomez, Drury, Naslund and others would eventually catch fire. Maybe he was too patient, or maybe he just had to be because of the roster that Sather didn't look to adjust a bit.

Personally, I can't blame Torts for much. He inherited a team that was sinking and that had no leadership and a broken psyche. You don't fix that during a playoff run; you fix that in the offseason. I don't like 100% (or even 80%) of what he's doing, but recognize that he likes a certain style, but doesn't have the players for that style. I do fault him for not adapting and using his full roster better though. Hopefully Florida loses the rest of their games because that's the Rangers' best chance of getting in the playoffs.

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04-06-2009, 10:03 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
The players gave up on Renney and that was reason enough to fire him. If he was still coach we wouldn't even be talking about playoffs right now. Regardless of that, I prefer the style of play with Torts MUCH more than Renney and I think most people would agree with that.
They quit on Renney?

I don't see the players breaking down walls for Tortorella.

At the very least this is desperate times for them...

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04-06-2009, 10:04 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
They quit on Renney?

I don't see the players breaking down walls for Tortorella.
Well we do have a crappy group of players, we all know that by now. Same sh** different coach proves that. However, I don't see how anyone can say in that last month or two under Renney that those guys looked like they even cared. From their interviews to the way they played on the ice. Look at Gomez, how he went from crap to suddenly playing well after the coaching change.

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04-06-2009, 10:12 AM
  #49
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the next great idea.....lets fire Torts and get Scotty Bowman for the last 3 games!

Desperate times require desperate measures.


....Of course it was not Renney's fault. Fact is that this team is a hodge podge of
available players. Blame Sather.

It doesn't matter whether Renney wanted Nylander, Redden or Drury. Sather takes the responsability for the trades done and not the coach.

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04-06-2009, 10:17 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
This was Renney's toughest year to coach. In the prior years, he had horses to lean on. He may've leaned on some too much, he may not have given others the rope or freedom perhaps he should've, but this season he didn't have the horses. That doesn't mean that he couldn't have done better, but at the same time, it doesn't mean that he should've done better. Most in here had different opinions about this coming season. Some were excited about certain additions, and others thought that this team was going to look good now that the albatross is off their back (Jagr and Shanny, in particular) and that Gomez and Drury were great leaders to help this team. Others, myself included, weren't ecstatic about the roster, and really wasn't sure of the direction given the leaders. And others believed this to be a transition year of sorts as the team would inevitably move away from dependence on a guy like Jagr, and we'll see more of a team effort (Singn', among others, correct?).

What we have here is an average team on paper. An average team fights for one of the last few playoff spots, and that's exactly what this team is doing. That would suggest that the combined coaching efforts of Renney and Torts is, well, somewhere around average to, perhaps, above average. The real fault lies in Sather. Renney did a spectacular job at the beginning of the season. He had help from Lundqvist, who played out of his mind as he saw more odd-man rushes than ever (strange in a defensive system). But somehow Renney found a forward combo that worked, found it early, used it often and his team, one that's been criticized for its conditioning of late, was a step ahead of everyone to start the season and got off to a fast start (otherwise we wouldn't even be sniffing the playoffs now). Where did Sather go wrong? He went wrong in believing the BS. He didn't recognize that it was only a matter of time that other teams catch on and catch up. Renney too, perhaps, wasn't ahead of the curve and didn't adjust, maybe believing that Voros was a 20 goal scorer and that Dubi will get 70 points while Gomez, Drury, Naslund and others would eventually catch fire. Maybe he was too patient, or maybe he just had to be because of the roster that Sather didn't look to adjust a bit.

Personally, I can't blame Torts for much. He inherited a team that was sinking and that had no leadership and a broken psyche. You don't fix that during a playoff run; you fix that in the offseason. I don't like 100% (or even 80%) of what he's doing, but recognize that he likes a certain style, but doesn't have the players for that style. I do fault him for not adapting and using his full roster better though. Hopefully Florida loses the rest of their games because that's the Rangers' best chance of getting in the playoffs.
I think any notions of what this team would be this season were nothing more than guesses. There were a ton of questions coming in and there are a ton of questions still. I felt the team could win the East or miss the playoffs all together (pretty daring call on my part!)

I did feel that as a transition year, we would see our younger guys develop and improve as the year went on. And to some degree, I believe that happened:

- Callahan has emerged a solid second line forward or excellent third line center.

- Staal has another year under his belt and his confidence seems to be growing.

- Girardi fought through a tough period and seems to have found a semblance of his game again.

- Dubinsky has learned how to do things to be effective when he's not producing offensively.

The biggest problem I had was the contracts that were given out over the summer during which, I believe, was supposed to be a transition year.

I was willing to take a step back this year. Not sure they will take a step forward next year without some seriously creative moves by the front office.

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