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TSN analysts looking for whimpy hockey debating Avery

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Old
04-06-2009, 08:37 AM
  #51
Drewr15
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As a fan of a team who had Lemieux and Holik all of those years, I have no prob with what Avery did. It was just an annoyance tap to try and get a goaltender who was playing lights out off his game. Lemieux used to do this kind of stuff to Hasek all the time in Devs Sabres games and got a similar reaction out of Dom one time. This is getting blown out of proportion because of Avery's reputation. If they suspend him then that is ridiculously biased.

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04-06-2009, 09:42 AM
  #52
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I'm a rival fan and someone that hates just about anything to do with the rangers however I do have respect for the fans because they are normally pretty knowledgeable about the game. That said, can you actually sell yourself on the fact that this is something you need on your team? Avery seems more like a sideshow act than a hockey player. Forget about whether you think he should or shouldn't be fined/suspended....do you want this guy representing one of the oldest franshises in the league, one of the faces of the NHL? Is the embarrassment worth the 15 goals a year and the intangebles?

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04-06-2009, 10:19 AM
  #53
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the sideshow that is Avery still generated points over the years as a Ranger. It is annoying, but somehow the guy is still able to produce better than people wihtout the sideshow. If the league would treat him fairly, perhaps we'd see an even better Avery as he'd be able to go out there like every other player and play the game. I haven't been an Avery fan and didn't really want him back at nearly $4MM per, but don't mind him at under $2MM per and just hope the guy gets a fair shake out there.

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04-06-2009, 10:43 AM
  #54
ZenBaja
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Avery

I don't even agree that this act was selfish.

He got under Thomas' skin and it eventually led to a 4 on 3. When you're trying to score on a team you haven't scored on in over two games, any little advantage you can get helps. This annoyance tap might have saved the Rangers season if that hit post became a goal.

-Z

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04-06-2009, 10:52 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by CaptDenisPotvin View Post
I'm a rival fan and someone that hates just about anything to do with the rangers however I do have respect for the fans because they are normally pretty knowledgeable about the game. That said, can you actually sell yourself on the fact that this is something you need on your team? Avery seems more like a sideshow act than a hockey player. Forget about whether you think he should or shouldn't be fined/suspended....do you want this guy representing one of the oldest franshises in the league, one of the faces of the NHL? Is the embarrassment worth the 15 goals a year and the intangebles?
As long as the guy is helping us win hockey games, I couldn't care less about how other fans perceive him/us. I'd rather have people thinking, "Oh, the Rangers, that's where the ******* Avery plays," than, "Oh, the Rangers, what a terrible hockey team." In my eyes, he's definitely worth it.

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04-06-2009, 10:54 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by we want cup View Post
I thought it was ****ing hilarious, and am glad he did it. The game needs characters. What he did wasn't dangerous, so it shouldn't be an issue. It was the physical equivalent of trash talking.
I was at the game and I am a Bruins fan..here's my take on it:

I saw Avery look around, the video only shows him look over his right shoulder, but previouslly he looked at the refs in the left corner as well, so I knew something was coming.

He didn't hit Thomas hard, but it was a little thump, he held the stick somewhat firmly, just enough to piss him off.

Thomas over-reacted and that concerns me...I care about wins, not settling a score for a minor thing. I'm concerned that if the B's draw the Rangers in the playoffs (although seems like many of the Rangers are doing their best not to make it) I don't want Avery to be a factor.

Let's face it, unless you're a certain kind of Ranger fan (I say that because not all Ranger fans like this guy or his style of play) you're going to realize the guy is a punk. Pests have existed forever in this sport. The B's had one of the best in ken Linseman years ago, and to be honest I hated when Linseman would pull his **** and then duck a fight.

That is my biggest issue with Avery. He chooses his spots to a 'T'. He starts stuff and leaves it for his teammates to fight over. In LA I remember he started with Fedoruk and somehow escaped the melee as his teammate proceeded to get absolutely hammered. A simple youtube search will reveal many many times where he cheap shots a player, often a skill player, then won't answer the call when challenged. At least Claude Lemieux would eventually drop 'em like he did with McCarty after crushing Chris Draper's face. When Lemieux outclasses a guy like Avery, that's saying a lot.

While with Dallas earlier this year he pulled a bunch of **** with the Bruins better players. Lucic challenged him, he wouldn't fight. Thornton, who is no true heavyweight, challenged him and Avery ducked that one as well. Then, after Ference laid a clean but hard hit on a Dallas player, Avery flies in and drops the gloves to take on Ference who is by no stretch a fighter.

By the way, look up what his teammates had to say about him after that B's-Stars game and after his dismissal from the Stars. No one wanted him in the clubhouse, they had no respect for him. Yet they all kind of say the same thing...he has some skill AND he can handle himself as well...so either cut the crap and play hockey or if you're going to go over the line, then man-up. He does neither.

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04-06-2009, 11:08 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
the sideshow that is Avery still generated points over the years as a Ranger. It is annoying, but somehow the guy is still able to produce better than people wihtout the sideshow. If the league would treat him fairly, perhaps we'd see an even better Avery as he'd be able to go out there like every other player and play the game. I haven't been an Avery fan and didn't really want him back at nearly $4MM per, but don't mind him at under $2MM per and just hope the guy gets a fair shake out there.

Can definately understand what your saying about the refs ect. treating him differently but does he bring that on himself with the antics like the other night?

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04-06-2009, 11:08 AM
  #58
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I'm not saying suspensions and crying like other people, but it was stupid and obviously a penalty and has no place in the game. People can't go around tapping each other on the head with sticks no matter how light and especially during a TV time out.

If someone did that to henrik, I would fully expect Orr to get the shoulder tap and go out and take care of business. Stop trying to defend the indefensible.

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04-06-2009, 11:11 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by NJrocket24 View Post
If someone did that to henrik, I would fully expect Orr to get the shoulder tap and go out and take care of business. Stop trying to defend the indefensible.
Thats a different story aside from blowing it out of proportion and calling for a suspension.

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04-06-2009, 11:35 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by ZenBaja View Post
I don't even agree that this act was selfish.

He got under Thomas' skin and it eventually led to a 4 on 3. When you're trying to score on a team you haven't scored on in over two games, any little advantage you can get helps. This annoyance tap might have saved the Rangers season if that hit post became a goal.

-Z
Agreed. Infact, i'd argue that he's not a selfish player at all. His job is simple; to get under the other teams skin however possible. What may appear to some as randon, immature, side-show antics, most likely are very carefully calculated acts to provoking a certain reaction from the opponent in order to gain an edge for the team. From memory, I can't remember many situations where his personal agenda has interferred with that role. And not to pick on Mara, but we applaud him for his team play, but how many times has he selfishly abandoned his role to get in some shots at another player?

Avery's shot at Thomas was typical Avery...it's not pretty, but it's exactly what was needed. He saw what everyone else saw; the team needed a spark and it's his role to ignite it. And u have to give credit to Boston also. They completely controlled the game play, so there was very little opportunity for Sean's shenanegans during play. He knew we needed an edge, he knows Thomas is a hot-head, so he went for it. Harmless play that could have paid off...

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04-06-2009, 11:51 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenBaja View Post
I don't even agree that this act was selfish.

He got under Thomas' skin and it eventually led to a 4 on 3. When you're trying to score on a team you haven't scored on in over two games, any little advantage you can get helps. This annoyance tap might have saved the Rangers season if that hit post became a goal.

-Z
Would you still feel that way if Thomas wasn't stupid enough to take the bait, Boston got the PP and put the game away?

How about if Avery got a misconduct and Campbell chose to suspend him as a condition of his recent exit from "rehab"?

The Rangers don't have the luxury of rolling the dice on plays like this, killing needless penalties or having to rely on Voros if Avery gets suspended. Their best chance of winning come from going out there and playing hockey with Avery on the ice.

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04-06-2009, 11:52 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by NorthStar4Canes View Post
He was shoved laterally into Lundqvist, and everyone in the arena was glad to see Lundqvist wasn't hurt.
And Rutuu made no effort to avoid contact... which he could have. He twisted his hips to make more contact that he would have if just let his body move through the crease. It's a move that Avery would make and I won't make any excuses for him. Avery ceases opportunities like that and if everyone is going to break down Avery's run-ins with goalies frame by frame I think it is fair that we do it as well. I saw the play and Rutuu made the contract worse than it should have been.

And by the way, we were all holding our breath for Thomas and we were relieved he was able to rebound from the potential injury Avery could have inflicted on him with that horrible slash. I was also happy he didn't sustain any harm to his punching, I mean blocking hand when Sjostrom viciously attacked his knuckles with his face. Shameless attempt to injur by Freddie and I hope the league looks into it.



Look guys, forget about he precedent with the jumbotron watching. They already started it with that Canes game a few weeks back. They disallowed a goal with that hand pass call that they only saw after reviewing video, which they only reviewed in the first place to find a kicking motion (it wasn't a kick).

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04-06-2009, 11:53 AM
  #63
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The bit I'm dreading is the fact that the Rangers will potentially play the Bruins in the 1st-round of the playoffs.

And instead of talking about the excitement of Stanley Cup playoff hockey, the awesome season the Bruins have had, key matchups in the series, and what New York will have to do to pull off an upset..........you know.......in other words, talking about the actual sport of professional ice hockey.

Instead of that, the media is going to focus on OMGZ it's AVERY vs. THOMAS!!!! Did you see what Avery did to Thomas a few weeks ago...Yes? No? Doesnt matter, because either way, we're going to show you that clip 3,587 times and focus on that meaningless incident rather than hockey.

It's predictable and obnoxious.

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04-06-2009, 12:03 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
The bit I'm dreading is the fact that the Rangers will potentially play the Bruins in the 1st-round of the playoffs.

And instead of talking about the excitement of Stanley Cup playoff hockey, the awesome season the Bruins have had, key matchups in the series, and what New York will have to do to pull off an upset..........you know.......in other words, talking about the actual sport of professional ice hockey.

Instead of that, the media is going to focus on OMGZ it's AVERY vs. THOMAS!!!! Did you see what Avery did to Thomas a few weeks ago...Yes? No? Doesnt matter, because either way, we're going to show you that clip 3,587 times and focus on that meaningless incident rather than hockey.

It's predictable and obnoxious.
So don't watch it. Problem solved.

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04-06-2009, 12:07 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Drewr15 View Post
As a fan of a team who had Lemieux and Holik all of those years, I have no prob with what Avery did. It was just an annoyance tap to try and get a goaltender who was playing lights out off his game. Lemieux used to do this kind of stuff to Hasek all the time in Devs Sabres games and got a similar reaction out of Dom one time. This is getting blown out of proportion because of Avery's reputation. If they suspend him then that is ridiculously biased.
I agree with Drew. I think it was douchey of Avery, but I don't think it was a big deal. He didn't injure him, or attempt to. And he got called for it, which was appropriate. Anything more is not.

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04-06-2009, 12:11 PM
  #66
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I agree with Drew. I think it was douchey of Avery, but I don't think it was a big deal. He didn't injure him, or attempt to. And he got called for it, which was appropriate. Anything more is not.
Congrats on making sense.

What Avery did was no different than what goes on in a scrum after the whistle, or at the end of a game.

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04-06-2009, 12:18 PM
  #67
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It happened during a TV time out, when there's been an understanding forever amongst players that nothing should happen during that time. The refs weren't looking because it had nothing to do with any play going on at the ice at the time.

And since not using video replay to call a penalty only applies to the game, if something is instigated well outside that realm...like during a TV time out...then I suppose the refs figured no problem using replay outside of the normal means to call the penalty as well.

You make an excellent point about the incident happening during a time-out, especially that Thomas had his back turned. I doubt any Ranger fans wouldn't be screaming bloody murder if it was Lundqvist, instead of Thomas. The move was juvenile. Something you expect from some punk kid to do, not a thirty year old man, unless his name is Avery, I guess.

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04-06-2009, 12:18 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
The bit I'm dreading is the fact that the Rangers will potentially play the Bruins in the 1st-round of the playoffs.

And instead of talking about the excitement of Stanley Cup playoff hockey, the awesome season the Bruins have had, key matchups in the series, and what New York will have to do to pull off an upset..........you know.......in other words, talking about the actual sport of professional ice hockey.

Instead of that, the media is going to focus on OMGZ it's AVERY vs. THOMAS!!!! Did you see what Avery did to Thomas a few weeks ago...Yes? No? Doesnt matter, because either way, we're going to show you that clip 3,587 times and focus on that meaningless incident rather than hockey.

It's predictable and obnoxious.
Okay....

That's why you pay for all those channels, right?

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Old
04-06-2009, 12:23 PM
  #69
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when did everybody become a bunch of cry baby nancies? this is hockey people and avery was playing his game. i'm so sick of people getting so butthurt over something avery did. get over it people. relax.
I agree

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04-06-2009, 12:29 PM
  #70
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Would you still feel that way if Thomas wasn't stupid enough to take the bait, Boston got the PP and put the game away?

How about if Avery got a misconduct and Campbell chose to suspend him as a condition of his recent exit from "rehab"?

The Rangers don't have the luxury of rolling the dice on plays like this, killing needless penalties or having to rely on Voros if Avery gets suspended. Their best chance of winning come from going out there and playing hockey with Avery on the ice.
The same Thomas that turns around after letting up a goal and tomahawks his stick in half against the crossbar? Pretty safe to assume he'd take the bait. Even if he didn't, Avery was careful to look that no refs were watching. Without the scrum, Avery may not have recieved 2 minutes either. But you're right, there's certainly a level of risk that Avery brings to the table.

I don't necessarily condone what Avery did...but i understand. In another situation, if we're playing a weaker, less discipline team, perhaps Avery should let his talent do the talking and hope for a goal through hard work and offensive creativity, BUT in this situation, against a Boston team that was controlling the game, I can't say i fault him for doing what he did. His job is to make a difference in the game, through a goal, through a rush, by being a pr1ck...whatever. When Boston takes away your offensive, which they did aside from the aberration of Korpedo's hitting the post, then I don't see the harm in goading the goalie.

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04-06-2009, 12:29 PM
  #71
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You make an excellent point about the incident happening during a time-out, especially that Thomas had his back turned. I doubt any Ranger fans wouldn't be screaming bloody murder if it was Lundqvist, instead of Thomas. The move was juvenile. Something you expect from some punk kid to do, not a thirty year old man, unless his name is Avery, I guess.
I dunno, had the exact sequence of events played out the other way around, I can't say I think I'd be that pissed off. No one got hurt, the teams got matching penalties (because the goalie punched another player in the face). It was just a stupid little meaningless nothing that's being blown out of proportion because of who did it.

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04-06-2009, 12:35 PM
  #72
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The move was juvenile. Something you expect from some punk kid to do
Precisely Avery's role.

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04-06-2009, 12:37 PM
  #73
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I dunno, had the exact sequence of events played out the other way around, I can't say I think I'd be that pissed off. No one got hurt, the teams got matching penalties (because the goalie punched another player in the face). It was just a stupid little meaningless nothing that's being blown out of proportion because of who did it.
I just think pulling something like that when Thomas, was just chilling was uncalled for. If it happend during the course of the game, I wouldn't think about it as much, if at all.

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04-06-2009, 12:45 PM
  #74
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Precisely Avery's role.
His role is to be an agitator and get under your skin, plus he can be a good player, but that was bush, and that's what he needs to stay away from. I'm all for guys like him that can drive you crazy, especially one that has skill.

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04-06-2009, 12:48 PM
  #75
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I dunno, had the exact sequence of events played out the other way around, I can't say I think I'd be that pissed off. No one got hurt, the teams got matching penalties (because the goalie punched another player in the face). It was just a stupid little meaningless nothing that's being blown out of proportion because of who did it.
I hope you are wrong! He tapped him in the back of the head for crying out loud. We've all seen tons of two handed slashes to the wrists and hands that are a hundred times worse and have led to serious injuries. It was a move designed to get under Thomas' skin and although not really classy certainly wasn't as horrible as many are making it out to be.

Heck Clarkson rag dolling Avery to the ice (twice) was dirtier and had a better chance of leading to an injury. Or how about Brooks Orpik sticking out his knee and trying to take out Drury or taking a run at Zubrus way after the puck was any where near him. Plenty of examples of dirtier plays. However, they weren't perpetrated by Avery so whats the point. Certainly not going to lead to headlines so why bother. Pure bull!!!

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