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TSN analysts looking for whimpy hockey debating Avery

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Old
04-06-2009, 12:59 PM
  #76
Fletch
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Captain Denis - to answer your question, yes, Avery has brought this on himself, but, I don't think that's fair for anyone. What I mean is that penalties that are penalties need to be called no matter who committed them, and no matter on whom they're committed. Why I said "yes" is because that's human nature - to discriminate against a like like Avery. But these refs are paid to do their job and need to figure out how to be less prejudice in the way in which they call the game. Fact of the matter is that NHL referees seem to get worse each year. On many nights they're downright awful and they determine the outcome of too many games. I'm just asking for a guy like Avery to be treated fairly on the ice.

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04-06-2009, 01:01 PM
  #77
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I'm just asking for a guy like Avery to be treated fairly on the ice.
At the very least when he's on the receiving end.

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04-06-2009, 01:09 PM
  #78
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....Saying "this is hockey, stop being a baby about it" has zero to do with it, Hockey went out the window several years ago with Avery....He's an a$$ jack that dresses as a hockey player (I'm sure his jersey is designor) from time to time.

If you played one second of hockey you would know that someone merely waiving a stick in your face WITHOUT making contact in anyway is a direct threat to you let alone purposly hitting someone in the head with it. Talk about w*ssifing the league, how about you drop the gloves instead of using your stick.

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04-06-2009, 01:16 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by CaptDenisPotvin View Post
...Saying "this is hockey, stop being a baby about it" has zero to do with it, Hockey went out the window several years ago with Avery....He's an a$$ jack that dresses as a hockey player (I'm sure his jersey is designor) from time to time.

If you played one second of hockey you would know that someone merely waiving a stick in your face WITHOUT making contact in anyway is a direct threat to you let alone purposly hitting someone in the head with it. Talk about w*ssifing the league, how about you drop the gloves instead of using your stick.
OK, so according to you he should be kicked outta the league? Or everytime he does something you or Buttman or Campbell dislike he should be suspended? Patrick Kaleta taking a run across the ice and jumping up with an elbow that shattered Mara's face was worthy a suspension. What happened between Thomas and Avery certainly not. It was worthy of two minutes and maybe, maybe a 5 minute misconduct. What else do you believe needed to be done???

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04-06-2009, 02:37 PM
  #80
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Part of what makes this hard to take (and yes, it is being blown out of proportion) is that if you are truly a HOCKEY fan...those of you who are know what I'm talking about...you want the focus of the game to be on HOCKEY...not these side shows.

If you want a change in momentum, pick a fight...a legit fight...and kick a players butt. But these calculated cheap shots, although not in any way dangerous, take away from the game, IMO.

I know many of you don't agree, you want to win at all costs, so this is fine by your standards...but having played the game and having been a fan for 38 years, it's very difficult to think that the game can be impacted by such gutless actions. Again, those of you who really enjoy hockey at it's finest know what I'm saying...those who don't probably revel in this garbage, and that's ok, it's just a different perspective.

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04-06-2009, 02:50 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by rician blast View Post
Part of what makes this hard to take (and yes, it is being blown out of proportion) is that if you are truly a HOCKEY fan...those of you who are know what I'm talking about...you want the focus of the game to be on HOCKEY...not these side shows.

If you want a change in momentum, pick a fight...a legit fight...and kick a players butt. But these calculated cheap shots, although not in any way dangerous, take away from the game, IMO.

I know many of you don't agree, you want to win at all costs, so this is fine by your standards...but having played the game and having been a fan for 38 years, it's very difficult to think that the game can be impacted by such gutless actions. Again, those of you who really enjoy hockey at it's finest know what I'm saying...those who don't probably revel in this garbage, and that's ok, it's just a different perspective.
You are absolutely right. I too played (still play some) and have watched since the 70's. You also know that even before Avery their have always been guys who play on the edge. Guys like Kenny "The Rate" Linesman, Pie McKenzie, the Hunter brothers, Tim Hunter and on and on. Some worse then others but always guys who try to bait other players into doing something stupid. That too is part of the game.

I guess the double standard is what irks me more than anything. Malkin slew foots someone and announcers and fans turn the other way. Avery taps Thomas and its a capital offense. Relax people. Avery is a *****! That's how he plays the game. I have much more disdain for guys like Orpik who already seriously injured Cole and still sticks out his leg to catch Druy or runs Zubrus 5 seconds after the puck has left the area. In the old NHL this guy would have been run outta the game in no time flat. He would have had to answer to Kocur who would have crushed his face with that big left of his!

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04-06-2009, 03:03 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by JerseyRangers View Post
You are absolutely right. I too played (still play some) and have watched since the 70's. You also know that even before Avery their have always been guys who play on the edge. Guys like Kenny "The Rate" Linesman, Pie McKenzie, the Hunter brothers, Tim Hunter and on and on. Some worse then others but always guys who try to bait other players into doing something stupid. That too is part of the game.

I guess the double standard is what irks me more than anything. Malkin slew foots someone and announcers and fans turn the other way. Avery taps Thomas and its a capital offense. Relax people. Avery is a *****! That's how he plays the game. I have much more disdain for guys like Orpik who already seriously injured Cole and still sticks out his leg to catch Druy or runs Zubrus 5 seconds after the puck has left the area. In the old NHL this guy would have been run outta the game in no time flat. He would have had to answer to Kocur who would have crushed his face with that big left of his!

I have no issue when there is a scrum and a player starts jawing or gives a little face rub in a scrum, that's part of the game and comes out when emotions run high. The Avery thing, as overblown as it has been, was well after the whistle, during a TV timeout, when there was no scrum or boiling emotions and it was totally premeditated. It's not that big a deal and I wish Thomas could have just laughed it off...but it was just too cheap for my taste, especially when you know there is no way this guy will ever stand up for his actions. Like I said earlier, at least Claude Lemieux took his beating from McCarty like a man...Avery? He'd be looking to fight Marc Savard.

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04-06-2009, 03:10 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by rician blast View Post
I have no issue when there is a scrum and a player starts jawing or gives a little face rub in a scrum, that's part of the game and comes out when emotions run high. The Avery thing, as overblown as it has been, was well after the whistle, during a TV timeout, when there was no scrum or boiling emotions and it was totally premeditated. It's not that big a deal and I wish Thomas could have just laughed it off...but it was just too cheap for my taste, especially when you know there is no way this guy will ever stand up for his actions. Like I said earlier, at least Claude Lemieux took his beating from McCarty like a man...Avery? He'd be looking to fight Marc Savard.
Your not right about the fighting part. Avery has fought guys in his weightclass (Tucker and Richards) and guys much bigger then him (Clarkson). He fights when he needs to which is alot better then guys like Malkin who slewfoots someone or Kaleta who leads his hits with his elbows.

Again what he did was cheap but compare it to some of the other stuff happening in the NHL these days and tell me why no one complains about the other stuff. You know why cause these other guys didn't make Buttman look bad. Thats the worst part about this league now. Do whatever you want but don't make the front office or the inept officials look bad! Sorry to say the NHL under Buttman has become almost as laughable as the WWE.

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04-06-2009, 03:16 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by JerseyRangers View Post
Your not right about the fighting part. Avery has fought guys in his weightclass (Tucker and Richards) and guys much bigger then him (Clarkson). He fights when he needs to which is alot better then guys like Malkin who slewfoots someone or Kaleta who leads his hits with his elbows.
According to Yahoo sports, Clarkson is 3 inches taller than him... and 5 lbs heavier. I wouldn't call that much bigger, especially since Clarkson only has 5 lbs through 3 inches of height. If anything, it means Sean should be stronger.

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04-06-2009, 03:19 PM
  #85
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According to Yahoo sports, Clarkson is 3 inches taller than him... and 5 lbs heavier. I wouldn't call that much bigger, especially since Clarkson only has 5 lbs through 3 inches of height. If anything, it means Sean should be stronger.
OK, we can agree bigger, right??? Whats the point? Avery has fought when called upon, White, on the other hand doesn't (yeah, I know about the eye). He likes to punch guys then cover up when its time to drop the gloves. Real tough guy, eh? Shane Churla and his broken orbital bone still dropped the gloves that one time.

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04-06-2009, 03:26 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by JerseyRangers View Post
Your not right about the fighting part. Avery has fought guys in his weightclass (Tucker and Richards) and guys much bigger then him (Clarkson). He fights when he needs to which is alot better then guys like Malkin who slewfoots someone or Kaleta who leads his hits with his elbows.

Again what he did was cheap but compare it to some of the other stuff happening in the NHL these days and tell me why no one complains about the other stuff.
I know he's fought guys in his weight class, but he carefully chooses his spots to fight (like Ference!) but does not choose those same guys as the ones to antagonize. Remember he went after Kariya years ago, boarded him, then when challenged by the opposing teams goon, he turtled? or how about when with LA he pokes the goalie after the whistle and when Fedorek challenged him he hid and let his teammate take an awful beating. WHen with Dallas earlier this year he went after Savard and Krejci, but when challenged ly Lucic or Thornton (and Thornton IS pretty much in his weight class) he dodged the fight...but later started a fight with Ference.

He's very selective in who he'll engage, and my point is if you're going to go after goalies and skill players, then you should man up and face the tough guys....to not do so is chicken-crap...having played I can't find any respect for a guy like that. Again, just a different perspective, but I am 100% sure if he were a Bruin I'd be ashamed of his actions...I always hated Linseman for that crap.

As for comparing it to other things around the league, I don't see how that applies at all...we're talking about this particular player and play.

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04-06-2009, 03:29 PM
  #87
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Those trying to defend Avery need to take the Ranger glasses off for a moment. All I see are distractions to the evident truth that Avery is the same old classless idiot he always was.

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04-06-2009, 05:43 PM
  #88
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So don't watch it. Problem solved.
It's just so horrible for hockey when people get excited about a matchup or when the media talks about the sport for a change.

It's like baseball hyping up a Sox/Yankees game following a brawl like the time Pedro threw down Zimmer to the field. Wait until the Bears play the Broncos, wonder what the story line will be. The difference between the other major sports and hockey isn't class, it's marketing and guess who's losing.



I don't mind people getting outraged over Avery's actions, but where's the outcry over guys like Pronger, chronic slasher-stomper-concussor? Or Rutuu, cheapshot artitist/biter? Where's the outcry over Lucic's knee on knee? There is no credibility to these discussions if Avery is the only person who should be banned from the league. Avery has hurt no one unlike a strong percentage of this league who are glorified for such actions (I'm stealing that from Brooks, who makes a great point today). Find some perspective, please.

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04-06-2009, 05:58 PM
  #89
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It's just so horrible for hockey when people get excited about a matchup or when the media talks about the sport for a change.

It's like baseball hyping up a Sox/Yankees game following a brawl like the time Pedro threw down Zimmer to the field. Wait until the Bears play the Broncos, wonder what the story line will be. The difference between the other major sports and hockey isn't class, it's marketing and guess who's losing.



I don't mind people getting outraged over Avery's actions, but where's the outcry over guys like Pronger, chronic slasher-stomper-concussor? Or Rutuu, cheapshot artitist/biter? Where's the outcry over Lucic's knee on knee? There is no credibility to these discussions if Avery is the only person who should be banned from the league. Avery has hurt no one unlike a strong percentage of this league who are glorified for such actions (I'm stealing that from Brooks, who makes a great point today). Find some perspective, please.
Thank you! Exactly what I've been saying. Kaleta runs around and throws high elbows and no one says a thing. Orpik went for Drury's knees and eveyone is ok with that. This is the same guy who freaking broke a players neck. Why is he even allowed to play anymore? Here is a guy who should have a bullseye on his jersey and should be suspended for anything even remotely outside the rules.

Problem is that Avery runs his mouth and in some cases is bigger then the league. The NHL has an egomaniac running the league who doesn't want anyone upstaging him. Avery has been blackballed and don't think for a second that Buttman doesn't have an agenda to try and ruin his career.

Its a joke! Malkin can slew foot whomever he choses but because he's a great player we will ignore that. Avery, on the other hand, is public enemy no. 1. Welcome to the new NHL! Run by and for pansies who don't know crap about hockey.

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04-06-2009, 05:59 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Those trying to defend Avery need to take the Ranger glasses off for a moment. All I see are distractions to the evident truth that Avery is the same old classless idiot he always was.
See I don't think anyone is defending Avery here. I think many of us are outraged and the sickening double standard this league has exhibited time and time again.

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04-06-2009, 06:17 PM
  #91
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Those trying to defend Avery need to take the Ranger glasses off for a moment. All I see are distractions to the evident truth that Avery is the same old classless idiot he always was.
I wont defend what Avery did, it was clearly dirty and classless (although i'll admit that i pretty much my pants laughing when the game came back from commercial) but i will say that the reaction from Thomas was nothing short of absurd. I'd be more ashamed of my goalie reacting like that than my pest doing something to cause a commotion.

Also, its pretty messed up to punch someone with your blocker in the face like that...and I'm sure that anyone else who has been on the receiving end of one of those would agree with me.

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04-06-2009, 06:37 PM
  #92
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According to Yahoo sports, Clarkson is 3 inches taller than him... and 5 lbs heavier. I wouldn't call that much bigger, especially since Clarkson only has 5 lbs through 3 inches of height. If anything, it means Sean should be stronger.
So out of his entire post, this is what you decide to comment on? Seriously? And what are you proving with your reply really? That Clarkson is in fact bigger than Avery? Because that's what it seems like.

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04-06-2009, 06:44 PM
  #93
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So out of his entire post, this is what you decide to comment on? Seriously? And what are you proving with your reply really? That Clarkson is in fact bigger than Avery? Because that's what it seems like.
Yes its typical Devils fan junk. You can tell them the sky is blue and they will argue that its light blue. Anything to make themselves feel more significant (since their team obviously never has been or will be in this area)!

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04-06-2009, 06:46 PM
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By the way I was relieved to see that watching the TSN video no one seemed to think it was a big deal. I should have probably watched it; just figured that since someone started a thread on this there must be some controversy. For once the announcers didn't bash Avery just for the sake of bashing Avery. Good to see that, atleast!

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04-06-2009, 10:38 PM
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Well, if that is the case then I think it is clear evidence of the obvious NHL bias against Avery, and that also is a problem. Would they have looked at a review for anyone else? How can they justify a league where the rules apply differently to different players. And it isn't just Avery. What about Pronger getting a smaller suspension for the same act that got Simon 30 games? No one talks about this stuff and it is glaringly obvious, just visit these boards during a Penguins-Rangers game, everyone sees the difference. The media doesn't have the balls to talk about this stuff.

btw, I think it is great that you found typos and poor grammar in the official NHL rulebook, doesn't surprise me at all.
I think what you've stated is just the reality of it all. Certain players get treated differently than other players. Make yourself out to be a trouble maker and the Refs will treat you differently than a guy who is leading the league in points. Elite players get treated differently whether we like it or not.

Also, as others have mentioned...the timing of this incident is really poor on Avery's part if he doesn't know for sure he can take someone with him. Your team is down 1-0 in the game late, you're fighting for a playoff position...he obviously calculated the risk by looking around at where the refs were...but I think the timing of it was misguided at best and foolish at worst.

Just my personal opinion. As I said on the Isles' board...if the Rangers play the B's in the first round it will be interesting whether this incident or similar ones to follow will help or hurt the Rangers.

I've never been an Avery fan so I'll throw my bias into the mix. My biggest issue with him is that he actually has a high level of skill and if he could just learn to pick his spots better and keep the clowning around to a minimum he's a really effective hockey player. He just seems to pick his spots seemingly at random to me for incidents such as this...so sometimes it's good timing, sometimes it's ******.

Just my opinion, not a fact, so take it for whatever it's worth.

...also I wasn't surprised to find a typo or grammar issue or two in the rulebook either...you pretty much find that stuff in any large document. I tend to have a brain fart or typo or three in any or my large posts so I'm not really one to judge...though I do try to edit it .

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04-07-2009, 08:36 AM
  #96
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I wont defend what Avery did, it was clearly dirty and classless (although i'll admit that i pretty much my pants laughing when the game came back from commercial) but i will say that the reaction from Thomas was nothing short of absurd. I'd be more ashamed of my goalie reacting like that than my pest doing something to cause a commotion.
Also, its pretty messed up to punch someone with your blocker in the face like that...and I'm sure that anyone else who has been on the receiving end of one of those would agree with me.
I absolutely agree with what Thomas did....I have no problem with the goalie doing some dirty work himself....

That being said, I had a standing agreement with my goalie to tell me when something happened that nobody saw. I did this so the goalie would 1)feel that someone always has his back 2) So he doesn't have to deal with these things and concentrate on stopping the puck. I would think the same pretty much happens at the NHL level right? (BY the way, I think my goalie made **** up sometimes just to get me into fight, lyin *******)

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04-07-2009, 08:50 AM
  #97
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I don't care what Avery does. He doesn't embarrass me or my "team". Let them settle it on the ice. All of these uber tough guys (see Lucic, Clarkson, White, etc the list is long) have no answer for Avery. No one does. Not that he's the toughest guy in the world by any stretch, but you could knock him out and he'll pop right up and talk poop like it never happened. His game is all about finding breaking points, then backing off like he did nothing once he found it.

Avery is one of the few players that is poised to reach mythical status. If this Ranger team makes the playoffs and has at least one upset, the reason will be "Avery" and the gap between Avery haters and supporters will be greater than any in the NHL.

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04-07-2009, 09:04 AM
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Problem is that Avery runs his mouth and in some cases is bigger then the league. The NHL has an egomaniac running the league who doesn't want anyone upstaging him. Avery has been blackballed and don't think for a second that Buttman doesn't have an agenda to try and ruin his career.
This is the heart of the matter Jersey. It doesn't matter what you or I think about Avery's actions. The League has made it explicitly clear that THEY have a bigger problem with loud mouths and grade-school antics than cheap shots.

Bettman can write off Kaleta's elbow as an unfortunate part of the game, but to have someone out there setting off brawls during a TV time out makes Gary look like he's unable to control a player who doesn't represent the league in the way he wants it represented. I'm not offended by Avery's actions whatsoever, but I can understand why the commissioner doesn't want these kind of events to be commonplace in the league. I'm surprised more people can't see it from that perspective, especially Avery.

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04-07-2009, 09:40 AM
  #99
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Avery is one of the few players that is poised to reach mythical status. If this Ranger team makes the playoffs and has at least one upset, the reason will be "Avery" and the gap between Avery haters and supporters will be greater than any in the NHL.
Yeah, and if the Rangers don't make the playoffs or make it and lose first round with Avery having another incident similar to Thomas/the million other stuff, the reason will be "Avery" and the gap between Avery haters and supporters will be less.

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04-07-2009, 10:12 AM
  #100
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I certainly hope Thomas doesn't react that way in the playoffs, but if I was the B's opponent I'd have to be thinking of how I can rattle him, given he's shown that he has a propensity to lose his cool.

As for this type of incident that doesn't stem from a scrum but it totally premeditated, The refs HAVE to catch this sort of thing at the time it happens, and need to reward the teams and players who DO keep their cool by giving a 2 min. PP and giving the offending player a 10 min misconduct. Too often the guy who keeps his cool gets nothing out of it...then, eventually he blows up and the game deteriorates.

Had Thomas not reacted so much, and the refs picked up Avery's actions, a 2 min pp and 10 min miscounduct would have been appropriate and might have been a better way to send a message..then Rangers players and coaches would then likely tell Avery to cut the crap.

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