HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Gainey Shouldn't Be Blamed for This Year

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-08-2009, 10:00 AM
  #51
TinordiandSubban
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,402
vCash: 500
In the Middle East there is a common belief that jealous neighbours can cause you bad luck with the "Evil Eye."

All those envious fans around the league have clearly been casting the Evil Eye on the Habs this Centennial season. To twice lose the leading scorer to season ending injury in the same season is beyond unfair. Our star goalie is clearly under some kind of hex. Our most reliable shut down defenceman is playing so bad he can't even understand what's happening to him, as if he is not really in control of himself...as if he were a victim of some kind of voodoo puppetmaster!!

In the season preview a TSN writer said "It's going to be a great year to be a Habs fan, even if you're not a Habs fan."

If you scramble those words they spell in backwards Latin "Curses upon thee, may the dark powers reign over thee."

That's how deep this thing goes. Our only hope is to collectively channel our positive energy as a protective shield, just like we did in Colorado when we gave up 60 shots and still won.

It's going to be a very close run thing, the powers of evil are strong.

TinordiandSubban is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2009, 10:18 AM
  #52
Miller Time
Registered User
 
Miller Time's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,176
vCash: 500
The G.M is the man responsible for the success or failure of the team he assembles...

the finger points to him when the team succeeds and it points to him when it fails, that's just the name of the game.

no need to go into another debate listing all the good/average/bad things he's done thus far as G.M, bottom line is that this is a results based industry.

injuries or not, coaching issues or not, media/fan pressure or not, he was hired to make this team into a winner, and until the team at least comes close to that, he is the one who should shoulder the bulk of the blame.

Miller Time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2009, 11:52 AM
  #53
Steveshutt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 255
vCash: 500
The more I think about it, the most prudent strategy would be to keep the payroll down as much as possible. Go with the kids, get them as much playing time as possible and then when the cap goes down and other teams stuck with bad contracts are desperately needing to dump salary, pick 'em up for a song.

We have a good base. Add a few veteran overpaid players to the kids and magic just might happen...

Steveshutt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2009, 12:31 PM
  #54
Melvin Udall
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,304
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steveshutt View Post
If anyone deserves blame for this year it's Carbonneau, the partying players and mostly, injuries. If Gainey had been coaching the team from the beginning of the year we'd be right up at the top of the conference right now.

The only major mistake Gainey has made is how he handled Price and Halak. Halak should have had more of a chance and should be the #1 with Price as the #1A. His loyalty to Price has hurt the team.

Also, I think we need to do some serious apologizing to Kovalev about how he was treated during the epic slump because clearly the guy bleeds bleu, blanc, rouge and hopefully will resign next season.

If we have the same team next year (give or take a Kostitsyn) I think we can challenge again after this unfortunate hiccup.

Reality Check: Gainey has been in Montreal (almost) 6 years - His (Hab) teams have won a grand total of 1 (one) playoff series in 6 years. This team is no better now than they were 6 years ago. Gainey has put (or kept) this team together - has selected his coaches and experienced (like every other team in the league) his share of player injuries.

As fans are we looking for "results" (i.e. WINS) or "excuses" (i.e. explanations for LOSES)?


GO HABS GO!


Last edited by Melvin Udall: 04-08-2009 at 12:55 PM.
Melvin Udall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2009, 12:32 PM
  #55
marchabsfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 876
vCash: 500
can gainey be blamed for something...

marchabsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2009, 12:37 PM
  #56
Etienne
Registered User
 
Etienne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Montréal
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,838
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by marchabsfan View Post
can gainey be blamed for something...
Yes. One. Georges ****ing Laraque.

What a useless P.O.S... Markov gets injured, leaves the game and this fatass doesn't do **** about it. Grabo was out of the game but there was still plenty of Laughs to use for sending a message. I still remember what he said when Gainey signed him:

"Le CH ne se fera plus brasser"

Yeah right.

Etienne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2009, 01:15 PM
  #57
willalong
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,511
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ND Irish View Post
Reality Check: Gainey has been in Montreal (almost) 6 years - His (Hab) teams have won a grand total of 1 (one) playoff series in 6 years. This team is no better now than they were 6 years ago. Gainey has put (or kept) this team together - has selected his coaches and experienced (like every other team in the league) his share of player injuries.

As fans are we looking for "results" (i.e. WINS) or "excuses" (i.e. explanations for LOSES)?


GO HABS GO!
It takes time to build through the draft, counting playoff wins is not fair. If you are looking for results you have to be patient

If you cannot see this and looking for someone to blame, then, blame the 19, 20, 21 year old kids for taking so long to develop.

Souray took some time....as did Markof....even guys if you go back like Lafluer, Robinson, Savard etc. took time

Gainey has to do it the right way, and, if is taking longer then you can stand so be it. Colorado took time, Detroit was way down at one time. The Islanders became a dynasty by being patient. Got beat in the first round by leafs one year and stayed the course.

willalong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2009, 01:19 PM
  #58
willalong
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,511
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ND Irish View Post
Reality Check: Gainey has been in Montreal (almost) 6 years - His (Hab) teams have won a grand total of 1 (one) playoff series in 6 years. This team is no better now than they were 6 years ago. Gainey has put (or kept) this team together - has selected his coaches and experienced (like every other team in the league) his share of player injuries.

As fans are we looking for "results" (i.e. WINS) or "excuses" (i.e. explanations for LOSES)?


GO HABS GO!
If it is a "reality check" you want then realize that the Stanley cup is the ultimate goal. Winning a round or two each year will not satisfy the Montreal fan base.

To really and truly go for the cup it takes time. I am sure Gainey could have thrown together a playoff team that really had no chance of winning the big prize. Win a round or two and keep everyone waiting for next year.

willalong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2009, 01:21 PM
  #59
Myron Gaines*
Trop Giou
 
Myron Gaines*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,391
vCash: 500

Myron Gaines* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2009, 01:24 PM
  #60
Caseofcups*
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 772
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ND Irish View Post
Reality Check: Gainey has been in Montreal (almost) 6 years - His (Hab) teams have won a grand total of 1 (one) playoff series in 6 years. This team is no better now than they were 6 years ago. Gainey has put (or kept) this team together - has selected his coaches and experienced (like every other team in the league) his share of player injuries.

As fans are we looking for "results" (i.e. WINS) or "excuses" (i.e. explanations for LOSES)?


GO HABS GO!
This guy gets it. This is what it means to be a Habs fan. REFUSING to accept mediocrity!

Caseofcups* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2009, 01:26 PM
  #61
willalong
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,511
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lxzred View Post
I think Gainey built a team alot stronger than most people suspect, besides the majority of posters calling for the cup at the beginning of the year, where are those posters now? (I'm sure many of them are blaming Gainey now, even though they believed in this team pre-season.)
How many teams could have gotten so many points playing so poorly.
I don't think we've played more than 10 good games all year, yet we have won how many? while under performing? (and injuries )
We agree, this team is on the verge....remember how they played against the Leafs with all there players.....then think of how they played when they lost a key defenseman and power play specialist.

I am an eternal optimist.....Webber might be the missing piece for the power play....lets find out. If the power play gets scarey again who knows what could happen. Sneider stays next year and helps the new kid find his way....this is an exciting team...you have to see it through.

People love to blame....would you rather be Florida right now or Montreal.....I mean in terms of chances.....Florida 3 points out cannot lose or tie....Canadiens 3 points up and only need a tie and maybe not that if Florida blows another opportunity.

willalong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2009, 01:43 PM
  #62
willalong
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,511
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caseofcups View Post
This guy gets it. This is what it means to be a Habs fan. REFUSING to accept mediocrity!
Yea if you know what mediocrity is????? Would you not have drafted players that cannot help right away (let them develop) Would you have put bandages on or attempted a full lasting cure.

You can refuse to accept mediocrity all you want, but, what do you end up with....you basically have to go through the steps to become a true contender...and yes my friend that is some growing pains or if you like "mediocrity"

Price has to grow....just as Roy did. Roy wasn't always Roy...some of you never seen him play when he was in his first, second and third years.....when Roy started he had a set team in front of him led by Robinson, Bobby Smith, Walters, Rick Green, Gainey, Carboneau, Naslund, Lemieux, the list of solid NHLers goes on and on

Our guys for the most part are still wet behind the ears (inexperienced)...It took another 7 years to win again. In other words Roy couldn't do it again for a while.

Cups in 1979....1986.....1993......I would say they are right on course since Gainey took over.

willalong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2009, 01:53 PM
  #63
willalong
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,511
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Etienne View Post
Yes. One. Georges ****ing Laraque.

What a useless P.O.S... Markov gets injured, leaves the game and this fatass doesn't do **** about it. Grabo was out of the game but there was still plenty of Laughs to use for sending a message. I still remember what he said when Gainey signed him:

"Le CH ne se fera plus brasser"

Yeah right.
First of all it was late in the game....Gainey would have to put him on the ice......and tell him to do something stupid.

It was a actually a good hit....see them all the time....maybe a tad late.....what message would you be sending.....you have to wait till next year.

He caught Markov from the side and a little off balance....no penalty on the play....these hits happen all the time...no stick work...no slew foot...just a hit....bad break for Markov....what can you do hitting is part of the game as are injuries.....9 times out of 10 that would be a nothing hit.

willalong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2009, 03:30 PM
  #64
Saint Patrick
2 rings in my hears
 
Saint Patrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,707
vCash: 500
the only thing i kind of blame gainey on is not picking up antropov. That was just an easy pick, new york barely gave anything and hes a presence on the ice.

On the other hand, we forget the great moves he has done.

But the inaction at the trade deadline left a sour taste in my mouth.

Saint Patrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2009, 03:44 PM
  #65
MathMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 17,024
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by willalong View Post
He caught Markov from the side and a little off balance....no penalty on the play....
Actually, there was a penalty on the play. Two minutes for boarding.

Since the hit was, you know, boarding. And that's not legal.

MathMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2009, 03:55 PM
  #66
FlyingKostitsyn
Registered User
 
FlyingKostitsyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Quebec
Country: Australia
Posts: 8,036
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BurnsWRC View Post
But the inaction at the trade deadline left a sour taste in my mouth.
Schneider has been an excellent addition. Metropolit was decent too. And then theres Doug Janik..

FlyingKostitsyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2009, 04:07 PM
  #67
TinordiandSubban
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,402
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BurnsWRC View Post
the only thing i kind of blame gainey on is not picking up antropov. That was just an easy pick, new york barely gave anything and hes a presence on the ice.

On the other hand, we forget the great moves he has done.

But the inaction at the trade deadline left a sour taste in my mouth.
TSN and Sportsnet have built up the trade deadline to the point where it becomes a competitive thing, who won and who lost and SHAME on you who didn't contribute to our ratings by making a big name move that we could talk about during our twelve hour broadcast.

He made the right moves before the deadline frenzy.

InBobwetrust

TinordiandSubban is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2009, 04:08 PM
  #68
Whitesnake
Habs of steel
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 47,667
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
I'm not sure I agree -- the Habs were a top four team in the conference for much of the season. Between the injuries and Carbo's inability to pull the team out of a tailspin, however, it's become practically impossible to get a fair idea of what the team's real strength might be. The roster, however, should have been good enough to be highly competitive.

(Mind you, Gainey hired Carbo, so he should take some responsibility for that.)


But seriously -- this team has lost its leading scorer at least twice. Possibly three times, I can't remember if Tanguay was ahead when he went down. It was ludicrous, Carolina-curse-esque.
Top 4 teams as in when it counts. Playoffs type of top 4 teams. This team has not proved that for a while now. As far as leading scorers, well it is true. Though when Lang, Tanguay and even Markov are your leading scorers, isn't it possible that you're in trouble?

Whitesnake is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2009, 04:15 PM
  #69
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,908
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
The G.M is the man responsible for the success or failure of the team he assembles...

the finger points to him when the team succeeds and it points to him when it fails, that's just the name of the game.

no need to go into another debate listing all the good/average/bad things he's done thus far as G.M, bottom line is that this is a results based industry.

injuries or not, coaching issues or not, media/fan pressure or not, he was hired to make this team into a winner, and until the team at least comes close to that, he is the one who should shoulder the bulk of the blame.
He's responsible for what happens on the ice, absolutely. And he's made his fair share of mistakes.

That being said, he's been extremely unlucky this year as we've had more than our share of bad breaks.

I look at the team we have now and the prospects on the way up and I feel he's done a good job. Sometimes things don't pan out but its a marathon not a sprint. We have a bit of work to do but I like the future of this team and Bob deserves credit for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ND Irish View Post
Reality Check: Gainey has been in Montreal (almost) 6 years - His (Hab) teams have won a grand total of 1 (one) playoff series in 6 years. This team is no better now than they were 6 years ago. Gainey has put (or kept) this team together - has selected his coaches and experienced (like every other team in the league) his share of player injuries.

As fans are we looking for "results" (i.e. WINS) or "excuses" (i.e. explanations for LOSES)?

GO HABS GO!
You need the reality check man.

When he took over we might as well have been an expansion club. For him to have assembled the team he has in six seasons is excellent.

We took first in the East last year and were sailing along fine this year until we caught some bad injuries. Yes, Bob could've done some things different but if you think that another GM could've come in and done a better job than Gainey has, you're kidding yourself.

And the real irony in all of this is that its guys like you who prevent us from getting superstars. We probably should've been tanking five or six years ago but instead the fans pressured the team into going for 8th. Sometimes we made it and sometimes not. The end result though is that we missed out on drafting high and its hurt us in the long run.

Instead of moaning and complaining just sit back and be patient. The team is young and most of these guys are nowhere near their prime.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 04-08-2009 at 08:11 PM.
Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2009, 04:20 PM
  #70
Whitesnake
Habs of steel
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 47,667
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Why not? We were first in the conference last year, and we would have practically the same roster (minus Streit and Ryder, plus Lang, Tanguay and half a year of Schneider). Why would we be so much worse this year, if we were healthy?



Come on...last year everyone says we were too young and too green to do anything in the playoffs, so Gainey gets some veterans who have been there and now you're criticizing him for getting players who are too brittle? Where's the middle ground?
'Cause other teams around us took more giant leaps than us? 'Cause we had to take into consideration that all of our youngsters would go through a sophomore slump. 'Cause we underrated the importance of a sniper on the PP, which was the reason why we finished 1st last year? We didn't have a sniper till Gainey woke up and brought us Schneider....

Where's the middle ground? In the middle? And that's the whole point, we are either going with our 34+ years old guys or are expecting our under 24 to make miracles. Where are the 25-33? They are either underperforming or overevaluated or they are not crucial part to the team. Those are the guys that have more experience than the kids but that are really fit to play hard for longer period of time.

Whitesnake is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2009, 04:23 PM
  #71
Bullsmith
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,125
vCash: 500
I think this season exposed Gainey to some fair criticism, the easiest one being the team needs a shot from the point for the PP. Until Shneider came we simply had no one in the entire org with PP instincts and a shot for Markov to pass to. Given Marky's abilities, that's a major, major oversight.

But overall I can't blame Gainey, he put a solid team in Carbo's hands. If just ONE of Price or Koivu or Kovalev or Pleks or Higgins or A Kostitsyn or S Kostitsyn or Hamrlik or Komisarek had had a really great year instead of a pretty ****** one the whole year changes. Or if Tanguay and Lang had stayed healthy all season. Didn't take much at all for this team to glide into the playoffs.

There is a good argument (as per McGuire and others) that the whole collapse is because of all the FAs. Maybe so, but the flipside of that is, unlike Toronto last year, Gainey has left himself everything he needs to seriously overall the team: He's got prospects and cap room and some young talent to build around or trade for other young talent to build around. Hope he makes the right choices this off season.

Bullsmith is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2009, 04:32 PM
  #72
Born in 1909
Hockey Royalty
 
Born in 1909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Montreal
Posts: 4,701
vCash: 500
I think the whole NHL can imagine how effective this 08-09 Canadiens team would be if Mr. Gainey was icing our full line-up, and had been coaching the season himself from day 1 of training camp.

Top 20 scorer? Maybe not

Tough to beat? Definitely

Case closed.

ps. its not over yet

Born in 1909 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2009, 05:19 PM
  #73
Melvin Udall
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,304
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
You need the reality check man.

When he took over we might as well have been an expansion club. For him to have assembled the team he has in six seasons is excellent.

We took first in the East last year and were sailing along fine this year until we caught some bad injuries.

And the real irony in all of this is that its guys like you who prevent us from getting superstars.

Instead of moaning and complaining just sit back and be patient. The team is young and most of these guys are nowhere near their prime.
__________________________________________________ _____________________

So, how did you know that guys like Vinny L. and D. Briere refused to come to Mtl. because of me - (guess their respective agents must have called you with that info)!

And........Habs 1st place finish in 07-08 was the exception to the rule as per Gainey's record with the Habs.

And......if "patience is the rule" how would you explain the quick improvements that Boston and Philly made under their respective GMs?

Bruins finished '05 - '06 season with .......... 74 points!

Philly finished '06 -'07 season dead last in the league with 56 points!

So why....do Habs fans see no significant improvement after 6 years with Bob GAINEY?

GO HABS GO!


Last edited by Melvin Udall: 04-08-2009 at 05:40 PM.
Melvin Udall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2009, 05:51 PM
  #74
Melvin Udall
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,304
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by willalong View Post
It takes time to build through the draft, counting playoff wins is not fair. If you are looking for results you have to be patient

If you cannot see this and looking for someone to blame, then, blame the 19, 20, 21 year old kids for taking so long to develop.

Souray took some time....as did Markof....even guys if you go back like Lafluer, Robinson, Savard etc. took time

Gainey has to do it the right way, and, if is taking longer then you can stand so be it. Colorado took time, Detroit was way down at one time. The Islanders became a dynasty by being patient. Got beat in the first round by leafs one year and stayed the course.
Although building through the draft still holds a certain degree of importance - in this NHL era teams improve more quickly by adding key players through free agency - an area that Gainey has not succeeded at (can another GM do better in Mtl?).

Colorado, Detroit and NY Islanders all built through the draft in a different era (minus UFAs - for the most part) and they all finished at or near the bottom of the league for years and drafted well ( Detriot is still drafting great - even in late rounds).

Habs don't draft well enough to build compeatively through the draft - look at the players Habs passed on - using 2003 as just one example - Timmons can draft players who can play in the league but not players who are difference makers (such as Carter, Parise, M. Richards, Getzlaf etc.- just to name a few).


Last edited by Melvin Udall: 04-08-2009 at 06:04 PM.
Melvin Udall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-08-2009, 06:00 PM
  #75
Habsterix*
@Habsterix
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,475
vCash: 500
Quote:
Gainey Shouldn't Be Blamed for This Year
Agreed, but for different reasons than what's shown by the OP.

It's not Gainey's fault if we've suffered the rash of injuries to key players this year, which is very costly.

It's not his fault if Kovalev decided to start playing the last few weeks of the season. Had he been there the rest of the season, we wouldn't be in the position we're in now.

It's not his fault if Komisarek isn't having a good season.

I do put some of the blame on him and the rest of the organization for the so-called partying and off-ice incidents as I'm a strong believer that you need to surround your rookies better. When you give them a pocket load of money, in the Montreal stardom, you need to have them mentored properly on and off the ice to show them the way. For that, he has some responsibility.

He did find Lang, who was a great addition until his season ending injury. He did get Schneider to help a struggling PP. Overall, I agree that Gainey shouldn't carry the load of the blame for this year.

Habsterix* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:10 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.