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Dynamo Moscow signs Omark and Harju

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Old
04-09-2009, 01:37 AM
  #451
awesomo
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IMO size does matter, but i guess it really boils down to how good these small players are at avoiding hits.

Pat Kane is a small player, but its fairly hard to hit the guy. How often do you see Andrew Cogliano getting hit, compared to Sam Gagner or Nilsson?

I haven't actually seen Omark play, so i cant really comment on how agile the guy is. But sometimes i watch Gagner playing the puck along the boards and getting elbowed in the head because he is so small. Thus, thinking about it, it makes me cringe a little bit seeing Robyn Reghrer and his elbows coming down on Linus Omark.

If we retain his right, IMO, its just good development. There is a reason why he put an exit clause after the first year. He can go develop one year in a tougher league than the SEL (i think its a better league) and see how well he does in it.

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04-09-2009, 01:50 AM
  #452
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Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post

Remember Mikhnov? Had a great season in the RSL. We were told he had alot of those things you mentioned. He came here and totally bombed. Didn't want to work on his game, and bailed home.
Talk about re-writing history..........

Mikhnov's team (that Grebeshkov played on when Mikhnov supposedly bailed) has been in Russia's Stanley Cup finals for the past two seasons.

Mikhnov scored a goal & an assist last night - Lokomotiv is within one game of being the best Russian team in 2008 / 2009.

Yashin plays on the 1st line for Lokomotiv - Mikhnov plays on the 2nd line - Mikhnov is tied for 2nd in goals scored (in the league) in the RSL playoffs.

Too bad the Oilers don't need a large LW who can score goals.....

Sorry for temporarily sidetracking this topic thread - I react when those who do not know what is really going on mention Mikhnov as a bum...

MacT scre*ed up with Mikhnov as he did with Hejda - MacT scre*ed up big time & deserves to be fired for that........
.


Last edited by Real_Estate-Agent: 04-09-2009 at 02:06 AM.
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04-09-2009, 01:50 AM
  #453
enthropi
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Originally Posted by Major4Boarding View Post
8.6 is part of the New CBA, while there was a Transfer Agreement with the IIHF. What is says is teams have up to 2 yrs to sign Reserve List (unsigned draft picks) and spells how it is done so. This provision was in accordance with the then existing TA with the IIHF. But because the agreement has since lapsed, the League envoked "Defected Status", or essentially went to the old CBA provisions which meant indefinate holding of rights.

That's why (I'm assuming) MerryJ99 posted that portion for you, because the NHLPA filed a grievance over going back to the old provisions and lost, appeal pending of course. But that appeal barely holds any water, because Ted Saskin signed a letter, while still with the NHLPA, acknowledging the switch back to the old provisions should the new Transfer Agreement with the IIHF fall through which they (League) were preparing to shore up as the new CBA was being ratified.

Saskin failed to tell the PA of the reversal before he was ousted. The new TA did get done, but in 2007 there was a demand for it to be reopened... and last year the Czech teams balked at an extension to expand or redo the deal, which blew the whole thing up.

Hope this helps shed further light on the whole thing
Yes, that definitely helps clear out the whole Dynasty-like proportions of this soap opera... Thanks for taking the time to answer. Cheers!

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04-09-2009, 02:23 AM
  #454
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Originally Posted by enthropi View Post
Yes, that definitely helps clear out the whole Dynasty-like proportions of this soap opera... Thanks for taking the time to answer. Cheers!
Maybe the media/Oilers can help clear this up for the masses as well? A lot of angry fans out there I'm sure.

Also this is nice, I don't see how he will fit into our current roster barring a trade or two, like many have stated our roster is a little bit on the short side.

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04-09-2009, 04:13 AM
  #455
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Originally Posted by Valic View Post
If he comes over and is clearly not good enough for the NHL, we have nothing binding that makes us keep him on the team. Would giving Omark a chance and then losing him because he didn't want to get demoted not be a better option than losing him without giving him a shot?

You may argue it hurts our "image", but if he is clearly not good enough to be in the NHL, and people see it, there will be no backlash.
I'm less convinced.

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04-09-2009, 04:20 AM
  #456
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Originally Posted by Pure View Post
If he can play in the NHL, he will dominate in the KHL and then play in the NHL. It won't be his only NHL offer!

If he can't play in the NHL, and he signs in the NHL, he gets demoted and plays in the AHL. TERRIBLE idea.
I agree with the idea that the quicker he gets to the NHL, and younger, the greater the ability for him to make any necessary adjustments to the league.


If he can play in the NHL now, he'll make the base salary plus bonuses, and establish himself as a known NHL player, and that will only help with contracts in the future. But if he chooses to play in the KHL, he's not spending any time making adjustments for the NHL game, against NHL players. There are a lot of factors that could go into him playing in the KHL that can stymie his ability to play in the NHL after the contract. He's not a static player and he stands the chance to progress and/or regress with respect to what NHL coaches are looking for from their players.

You cannot definitively say that if he'd be able to crack an NHL roster this upcoming season, he'll still be able to crack one in three years after playing in the KHL.

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04-09-2009, 04:34 AM
  #457
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It has been a difficult decision but from what my agent has told me, Edmonton doesn't really believe in me.

Awesome...

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04-09-2009, 04:50 AM
  #458
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Ugh. Sorry, is there any confirmation yet that we will retain his rights under defected player status??? Its pretty crucial to know... If we do, it makes this a much easier pill to swallow... RSL will be better for him than the AHL and he will be happy there for a while. As long as we retain his rights it bodes well for our future and his.

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04-09-2009, 04:57 AM
  #459
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
How do you know he was after a bonus filled contract? It didn't say that in the article. And you are wrong on the risk thing. If he makes the team, he'd be worth the cap hit, so no risk. If he didn't make the team, he'd go play in Europe and we wouldn't have the cap hit, so again no risk.
He probably thinks that because they often go with max salary contracts. Why would this one be different? You're right that we don't know. So assumptions are made on both sides.


Quote:
LOL so watching his highlight vid and concluding he can make it in the NHL is asinine, but watching it and concluding he can't make it in the NHL is fine? It's the same highlight video. Besides, a lot of the Omark is NHL ready crowd are the SEL fans who have watched him, or are fans who have at least seen his full periods up on Youtube. So they aren't just talking out of their ass based on one highlight video
A lot of the people that feel any prospect-turned-bust was NHL ready were people that watched the prospect play. Fans get emotionally invested, which clouds their vision. And when things don't go right, they rationalize and blame everything but the player themselves, because if they player just didn't have the tools after all, it makes the person that felt they were NHL ready wrong. And people just don't like that cognitive dissonance.


Last edited by alanschu: 04-09-2009 at 05:04 AM.
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04-09-2009, 05:03 AM
  #460
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Originally Posted by hemskyforpm View Post
Omark's agent Jared Bousquet and the Oilers were in negotioations, and according to Bousquet, the Oilers made a very fair offer, but simply couldn't compete with the money available in Russia.


HAHAHA.....QFT.


Though a bit of me, based on some hearsay comments from Omark, makes me wonder if a bit of this was the agent's doing. According to Omark, his agent told him the Oilers weren't very interested. However, according to TSN, his agent said the offer was fair.

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04-09-2009, 05:07 AM
  #461
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Originally Posted by TheSpecialist View Post
At least 90% of the players MacTavish coached would have been better under a different coach. The fact is, MacTavish is inept when it comes to coaching talented players.
That's a nice number haha.

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04-09-2009, 05:46 AM
  #462
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Originally Posted by alphahelix View Post
Ugh. Sorry, is there any confirmation yet that we will retain his rights under defected player status??? Its pretty crucial to know... If we do, it makes this a much easier pill to swallow... RSL will be better for him than the AHL and he will be happy there for a while. As long as we retain his rights it bodes well for our future and his.
The KHL doesn't help him adjust to the smaller ice surface, which might hurt him more than his size ever could. If he insists on refusing to spend time adjusting to this game, we might as well lose his rights.

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04-09-2009, 06:05 AM
  #463
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Originally Posted by MAscis View Post
LOL again. But also agreed. SEL is not the best league, nearly 3rd after KHL.
SEL want to keep ticket price low, and hockey aint the biggest sport in Sweden so they cannot afford the best sign players, the best refs and so on, but it still a very competative and really good league.
And the best scoutingzone the scouts have.
???
Hockey is together with football the sport that generate most interest and also coverage in the media. The SEL teams shares a total of 27 million USD for the TV-rights per season wich is a good indicator on how big hockey is in Sweden.

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04-09-2009, 06:07 AM
  #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemskyforpm View Post
Omark's agent Jared Bousquet and the Oilers were in negotioations, and according to Bousquet, the Oilers made a very fair offer, but simply couldn't compete with the money available in Russia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seachd View Post
But it's not about the money...

Right.
Hahaha... So where did this info come from? An Oilers lobbyist? Reported in Canadian media, that probably haven't heard both sides of the story? Considering Omark was "too small and we have enough small players in the organisation already", I'm sure the Oilers considered the offer "very fair." I mean, he was a 4th rounder, right? Right? The statement wasn't quoted. That can have been twisted and turned endlessly.

The sooner you realize the obvious, the better. Lowe shat in the bed. Omark has repeatedly, over months, said "I want to hear the franchise tell me they believe in me and have plans for me." Lowe said: "We have too many small players and you are to small."

Anyone with an IQ over 70 would have instead said: "Look, here's the deal: We're not sure how your play will transmit over to a small sized rink in a more physical league. But everything, your play and our scout reports, say you should do fine. We have no reason to believe you wouldn't be a part of the NHL team next season. If you however, for some reason I can't think of, would end up outside of the roster, we can loan you out to Luleå in SEL to play there, instead of AHL. I do hope you could endure playing a short stint in AHL if it would deemed necessary. But we have big plans for you."

Epic fail by the Oilers organisation. Epic. If you can't convince a young, very promising prospect they believe the player will turn into a gem and have a bright future in the organisation, starting next season, what is your job in a NHL organisation again?

Those of us who've actually seen Omark play this season, know he's the real deal. He did just as well as Nicklas Bäckström (I even think Omark did better than Bäckström), #1 center in Washington Caps, if you know who that is. Bäckström has better hands, but Omark has more of a scoring touch and a bigger nose for the net. He also protects the puck really well, despite his size. He's amazingly strong and hard to knock down. He played very well in the Swedish national team, despite his age.

Coming in to Edmonton, hoping to hear the staff has confidence in him and instead hearing he's just one among many smurfs in an overcrowded position... to a player of his caliber, it's downright insulting to hear that. It's downright insulting to offer anything but the maximum for a prospect of this caliber.

And to further the comparison between Omark and Bäckström: Bäckström also came practically out of nowhere. He started as a young, promising player on the 4th line in Brynäs. One season later, he was their star player and a national team player. Same can be said of Omark. He has exploded in terms of skill, performance, responsibility and hockey intelligence. Those hanging themselves up on the 4th pick are being ridiculous.

Telling him "you're too small" was basically the worst thing Lowe could've said to ruin the negotiations. Because that's basically telling you're not good enough and there's nothing you can do about it.
"You're not strong enough". - Fine, I get stronger until autumn.
"You need to improve your skating." - Fine, I'll do that.
But "You're too short." - Wth? So what do you want me to do about that? Grow taller?

The big question mark however, was why the heck did Edmonton draft yet another small playmaker in the first place, if they are in such overabundance that it's a big "meh" when they finally develop over all and anyone's expectations?

The comparisons with Brännström and how he didn't turn out as the next Messias are also kind of amusing. Brännström was hyped because he was a young UFA on a hot streak, Omark has been hyped because he's been such a dominant player. Big difference.

If this would've been $ather screwing up getting over a Rangers prospect, I would have gone berserk. Now I just facepalm myself. Haha, this is just incredible. Omark put a big "tell me you believe in me" sign on his forehead for months and Lowe did exactly the opposite. Oh man...


Last edited by Chimp: 04-09-2009 at 07:47 AM.
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04-09-2009, 06:28 AM
  #465
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I agree whit Chimp here. Want to add tho, that me and most other Swedish hockeyfans I guess, would have liked to see Omark in the NHL and in Edmonton. Not Russia.


Last edited by Snauen*: 04-09-2009 at 06:38 AM.
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04-09-2009, 07:37 AM
  #466
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As a swede I'm pretty disappointed by the news, I was really looking forward to see if he could hack it in the NHL. And I actually agree with some of the concerns in this thread regarding his size and playing style. I'm personally not convinced (and I've watched him +50 times on TV plus a couple of live games) that he would be a top-two liner.

With all that said, he is quite talented, and I don't think giving him some insurances about his chances to make the roster for the next season, would have been totally up the wall. After all, he has produced an excellent season both with Luleå in the SEL and with the national team. And all this talk about money, while being important for him obv, is and was not the biggest deciding factor. He didn't think that the Oilers thought that highly of him, and thus he took the other route which in the end might be a pretty good one (both for the oilers, if they still have the rights(?), and for himself).

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04-09-2009, 07:38 AM
  #467
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once again, the truth is somewhat less dramatic than we make it out to be

Omark has signed a 2 year deal with an out clause after one year. Tambellini said that he looks forward to Omark being an Oiler next year

The simple reality is that the Russian team gave him a guaranteed contract and this should set him up for life. Any of us would have loved a US $1,000,000 tax free head start at age 21. He should never have to worry about being poor for the rest of his life.

Next year, there are two scenarios:

1) he has a poor to OK year in the KHL and stays there for another year. If this happens, then he made the smartest possible move by grabbing the guaranteed money.

2) he has a good year and the Oilers sign him to a rookie max contract with an assurance that he makes the team. If this happens, then he is no farther behind and this move was nuetrl at worst.

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04-09-2009, 07:45 AM
  #468
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Originally Posted by Mr Sakich View Post
once again, the truth is somewhat less dramatic than we make it out to be

Omark has signed a 2 year deal with an out clause after one year. Tambellini said that he looks forward to Omark being an Oiler next year
where did you hear tambellini say this? and did he mention if we maintain omarks rights for sure?

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04-09-2009, 07:58 AM
  #469
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Awesome...
Haha, yes, that sounded really gullible to me too. Agents never try to persuade their clients to take the highest bid, after all...

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04-09-2009, 08:35 AM
  #470
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I just read a interview in Kuriren (local newspaper). Anyways, according to Omark: Edmonton haven't told him about any plans for him and they didn't seem to believe in him 100%. NHL was always the 1st alternative, but playing with Harju for 1 year more, combined with the money, was too good to turn down. He also said that some of the comments from Edmonton management was a bit strange (already mentioned in this thread). He also mentioned that if Edmonton had expressed more interest, he wouldn't have thought twice about it and signed with them.

He also went on to say that since christmas, Omark and his representatives have been asking for the max deal, but Edmonton hasn't offered even half of that.


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04-09-2009, 08:45 AM
  #471
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Seems like maybe Omark has been kept out of the loop by his agent? Not even half the max? That's not even possible, considering the minimum. How are we supposed to believe him if that's what he said?
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04-09-2009, 08:52 AM
  #472
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Seems like maybe Omark has been kept out of the loop by his agent? Not even half the max? That's not even possible, considering the minimum. How are we supposed to believe him if that's what he said?
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That is his exact quote. But my guess is that he talks about salary+bonuses?

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04-09-2009, 08:58 AM
  #473
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But then you can see where it would be a sticky area for the Oilers. Those bonuses count against the cap. And if he counts as a defected player, he's going to have to deal with the entry level system, with the Oilers, when he wants to come to the NHL. Why not just get it over with?
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04-09-2009, 09:01 AM
  #474
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Looks to me the agent was looking after his own payday ahead of what the players might've wanted. He sold them out and wants to be there for the big payoff should they actually do well. Savvy on his part if not completely unscrupluous.

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04-09-2009, 09:06 AM
  #475
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Originally Posted by Seachd View Post
But then you can see where it would be a sticky area for the Oilers. Those bonuses count against the cap. And if he counts as a defected player, he's going to have to deal with the entry level system, with the Oilers, when he wants to come to the NHL. Why not just get it over with?
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You are kind of asking the wrong person (I don't know Omark, nor do I know much about the NHL cap system)

But it seems to be clear that Omark and his agent wanted max+bonuses and Edmonton didn't think it was close to reasonable.

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