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Chicago/Edmonton Offseason

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Old
04-06-2009, 11:58 PM
  #1
Lexicon
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Chicago/Edmonton Offseason

Ok guys, go easy on me the deal probably doesn't have a chance in hell on happening. However, do you think it's fair value and a good proposal?

Here it is:

To Edmonton:
Patrick Kane (3.725m cap hit - bonuses) RFA 10/11
Chicago's 2009 First Round Pick

To Chicago:
Ales Hemsky (4.1m cap hit) UFA 12/13
Edmonton's 2009 First Round Pick
Robert Nilsson

Why Edmonton Does It: Perfect Line Combo? Gagner and Kane were phenomenal in junior and worked really well with one another. Can they pull it off again? This Oiler team needs chemistry badly and Kane/Gagner combo would be a good chance to take at creating a powerful line combo that this team needs.

Why Chicago Does It: Cap Management. Versteeg and Barker become RFAs this year after having relatively successful seasons not to mention Brower and Bolland becoming RFAs. The following season Keith, Toews, Ladd and Kane will all become RFAs. Basically, Hemsky is signed till 12/13 for a bit more than Kane is making now (with bonuses). Chicago receives pretty much the same guy in return and most likely a bit cheaper than Kane will sign. Also, Hemsky is further in his development than Kane, better for a competitive team gunning for the Cup. Lastly, the pick swap covers any inequality this deal may have as Chicago advances 10 or so spots in the 1st round because of this deal. Also, I added Nilsson because I think he needs a scenario switch.

I came up with this while talking to a friend of mine about Edmonton's chemistry issues. I'm doubt this deal would ever happen due to Kane and Hemsky both being franchise players and both seen as the cornerstone of their current teams. However, do you think it's an even trade and good for both teams?


Last edited by Lexicon: 04-07-2009 at 12:30 AM.
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Old
04-07-2009, 12:22 AM
  #2
Piffle
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Not following your logic on why Chicago would do this. Kane has more points this year and he is barely 20, while Hemsky is now in his prime at 25. Kane's potential is still through the roof and he is already as good as Hemsky. Even though he still has lots of holes in his game, players like Kane do not generally get traded. If Chicago does end up needing to trade Kane, they will get more than Hemsky for him.

Edit: I should add that I personally, as a Hawks fan, would not mind him being traded. I think he is a liability defensively. But he does score a crapload of points for being 20, and with the aforementioned upside he has quite a bit of value (which is why I wouldn't mind trading him).


Last edited by Piffle: 04-07-2009 at 12:33 AM.
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Old
04-07-2009, 12:28 AM
  #3
salty justice
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6,367 posts and the OP's avatar says it all "No clue"

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Old
04-07-2009, 01:45 AM
  #4
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Not a good deal for Chicago. Kane has way too much potential and he will reach it sooner than later. Kane was rumored to be playing with an injury this season, this is why his stats are not a true reflection of how good he is.

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Old
04-07-2009, 01:51 AM
  #5
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Chicago has no reason to do this deal.

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Old
04-07-2009, 02:37 AM
  #6
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even if you took out chicagos first round it still wouldn't be fair. horrible.

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Old
04-07-2009, 08:24 AM
  #7
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nilsson doesnt make up for the difference in Kane and Hemsky, or the position of the picks

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Old
04-07-2009, 10:45 AM
  #8
Paralyzer
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If you want a Gagner/Kane tandem, then do this:

To Chicago
Gagner

To Edmonton
1st and 2nd Round Pick 2009

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Old
04-07-2009, 06:15 PM
  #9
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Originally Posted by salty justice View Post
6,367 posts and the OP's avatar says it all "No clue"
I am almost at 20k I am still looking for clues

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Old
04-07-2009, 06:21 PM
  #10
Joey Moss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paralyzer View Post
If you want a Gagner/Kane tandem, then do this:

To Chicago
Gagner

To Edmonton
1st and 2nd Round Pick 2009
I wouldn't even do that... we aren't trading Gagner end of subject, and if we were we could get more.

As for the OP I agree with most here, Chicago never does it.

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Old
04-07-2009, 06:26 PM
  #11
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Id trade Kane and his floater, no defensive skills for anything, but considering he has this phantom "potential" tag, Id milk whomever was stupid enough to get a player (Kane) and what he brings to the table (pouting, crying, looking for a bussom to nurse from) for just about anything.

This is as good as Kanes gonna get.

Trade made

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Old
04-07-2009, 09:23 PM
  #12
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I don't see why the Hawks would move Kane for only a marginal downgrade in salary (assuming Kane signs a ~6 million dollar contract), especially since Kane is the rising star of the Hawks franchise.

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Old
04-07-2009, 10:47 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex View Post
Ok guys, go easy on me the deal probably doesn't have a chance in hell on happening. However, do you think it's fair value and a good proposal?

Here it is:

To Edmonton:
Patrick Kane (3.725m cap hit - bonuses) RFA 10/11
Chicago's 2009 First Round Pick

To Chicago:
Ales Hemsky (4.1m cap hit) UFA 12/13
Edmonton's 2009 First Round Pick
Robert Nilsson

Why Edmonton Does It: Perfect Line Combo? Gagner and Kane were phenomenal in junior and worked really well with one another. Can they pull it off again? This Oiler team needs chemistry badly and Kane/Gagner combo would be a good chance to take at creating a powerful line combo that this team needs.

Why Chicago Does It: Cap Management. Versteeg and Barker become RFAs this year after having relatively successful seasons not to mention Brower and Bolland becoming RFAs. The following season Keith, Toews, Ladd and Kane will all become RFAs. Basically, Hemsky is signed till 12/13 for a bit more than Kane is making now (with bonuses). Chicago receives pretty much the same guy in return and most likely a bit cheaper than Kane will sign. Also, Hemsky is further in his development than Kane, better for a competitive team gunning for the Cup. Lastly, the pick swap covers any inequality this deal may have as Chicago advances 10 or so spots in the 1st round because of this deal. Also, I added Nilsson because I think he needs a scenario switch.

I came up with this while talking to a friend of mine about Edmonton's chemistry issues. I'm doubt this deal would ever happen due to Kane and Hemsky both being franchise players and both seen as the cornerstone of their current teams. However, do you think it's an even trade and good for both teams?
No way in a million years are the Hawks doing this. (Oilers fan)

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Old
04-07-2009, 10:47 PM
  #14
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The Oilers take this and run. If Tambellini could pull this off, I would forever be a fan of his.

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Old
04-08-2009, 01:53 AM
  #15
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No thx k bai

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Old
04-08-2009, 10:30 AM
  #16
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Now that the Hawks are finally getting better it appears that bad canadian teams (Edmonton - Toronto) feel it is the Blackhawks duty to take trash and send good players north so they can rebuild.

Hemsky is worse than Kane now and Kane still has considerable upside to boot. Nilsson is a complete non factor. The pick flop hardly justifies Chicago even considering this.

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Old
04-08-2009, 12:02 PM
  #17
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Originally Posted by brevard View Post
Now that the Hawks are finally getting better it appears that bad canadian teams (Edmonton - Toronto) feel it is the Blackhawks duty to take trash and send good players north so they can rebuild.

Hemsky is worse than Kane now and Kane still has considerable upside to boot. Nilsson is a complete non factor. The pick flop hardly justifies Chicago even considering this.
Are you ****in kidding me? Hemsky is a more complete player than Kane, has a better PPG avg this year playing with guys like Reddox, Horcoff, Penner vs Kane's teammates (Toews, Havlat, Sharp), and after next year will make considerably less money (4.1 vs 5.5-6?).

Explain to me how Kane can be a -2 on the same team where his #1 D-man is a +32? Can you say defensive liability?

I wouldn't do this deal based on these facts alone, then when you consider Kane is a midget (listed as 5'10 163 which is a pretty generous 5'10) and that the Oilers are already too small and this becomes an absolute NO from the Oilers. People just get way too caught up in line combos in junior. Because I'm sure the Penguins are just dying to get Pouliot from us and Roussin from FLA (if he's still in their system????).

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Old
04-08-2009, 12:18 PM
  #18
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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
Are you ****in kidding me? Hemsky is a more complete player than Kane, has a better PPG avg this year playing with guys like Reddox, Horcoff, Penner vs Kane's teammates (Toews, Havlat, Sharp), and after next year will make considerably less money (4.1 vs 5.5-6?).

Explain to me how Kane can be a -2 on the same team where his #1 D-man is a +32? Can you say defensive liability?

I wouldn't do this deal based on these facts alone, then when you consider Kane is a midget (listed as 5'10 163 which is a pretty generous 5'10) and that the Oilers are already too small and this becomes an absolute NO from the Oilers. People just get way too caught up in line combos in junior. Because I'm sure the Penguins are just dying to get Pouliot from us and Roussin from FLA (if he's still in their system????).
So by that logic, you are ok trading Gagner for Martin Erat. Erat has more PPG and Gagner stinks defensively. Who cares that he is only 19 and has lots of offensive upside huh?

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Old
04-08-2009, 12:51 PM
  #19
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Originally Posted by Piffle View Post
So by that logic, you are ok trading Gagner for Martin Erat. Erat has more PPG and Gagner stinks defensively. Who cares that he is only 19 and has lots of offensive upside huh?
Gagner has improved dramatically on his defensive game this year. Couple that with the fact there is a greater age discrepancy (Erat 27 vs Gagner 19, Hemmer 25 vs Kane20) and that Erat makes more money than Hemsky, and no, I wouldn't say that its a comparable situation. If you're going to consider the long-term with potential, consider the long-term with contract.

In 2yrs could Kane hit 90 pts? Yes, possibly. What will he be paid to do this? probably 6mil.

In 2 yrs (playing alongside a further developed Gagner) could Hemsky hit 90 pts? Maybe not as likely as Kane, but certainly possible. What will he be paid to do this? 4.1mil.

In 2 yrs could Gagner hit 65-70pts? I think so. What will he be paid to do this? Maybe 3.5mil?

In 2 yrs could Erat hit 65-70 pts? If he playes a full season, maybe. What will he be paid to do this? 4.5mil

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Old
04-08-2009, 02:19 PM
  #20
Piffle
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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
Gagner has improved dramatically on his defensive game this year. Couple that with the fact there is a greater age discrepancy (Erat 27 vs Gagner 19, Hemmer 25 vs Kane20) and that Erat makes more money than Hemsky, and no, I wouldn't say that its a comparable situation. If you're going to consider the long-term with potential, consider the long-term with contract.

In 2yrs could Kane hit 90 pts? Yes, possibly. What will he be paid to do this? probably 6mil.

In 2 yrs (playing alongside a further developed Gagner) could Hemsky hit 90 pts? Maybe not as likely as Kane, but certainly possible. What will he be paid to do this? 4.1mil.

In 2 yrs could Gagner hit 65-70pts? I think so. What will he be paid to do this? Maybe 3.5mil?

In 2 yrs could Erat hit 65-70 pts? If he playes a full season, maybe. What will he be paid to do this? 4.5mil
I probably could have picked a better example that Erat, but I was in a hurry and he was the first one that came to mind.

My point is you don't trade 19-20 year old guys that still have a ton of upside for guys that are in their mid to late 20s that are nearly identical in points/skill today to save 2 million of cap a couple years from now. Hemsky might have a little bit more upside, but he is pretty much the player he will be offensively (I could see him getting better defensively MAYBE). Given equal health, I doubt he will ever score more than Kane ever again in a year.

And it is very possible Kane would have hit 90 points this year if he wasn't injured for the second half. He was on pace for more than 90 when he got his high ankle sprain at the end of December. I doubt he will make 6 million on this first contract too.

And if you want a bunch of cheap guys and don't want to pay a couple of star players a good salary, good luck with that.

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Old
04-09-2009, 03:04 PM
  #21
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This proposal is not nearly as bad as everyone is making it seem.

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Old
04-10-2009, 12:54 AM
  #22
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Counteroffer:

Chicago gets:
Vishnovsky
2nd round 09

Edmonton gets:
Kane

Kane-Gagner-Hemsky
Moreau-Horcoff-Pisani
Nilsson-Cogliano-Reddox
Penner-Brodz-Stortini

Souray-Staios
Grebby-Gilbert
Peckham-Strudwick

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Old
04-10-2009, 12:55 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Copper and Blue View Post
Counteroffer:

Chicago gets:
Vishnovsky
2nd round 09

Edmonton gets:
Kane

Kane-Gagner-Hemsky
Moreau-Horcoff-Pisani
Nilsson-Cogliano-Reddox
Penner-Brodz-Stortini

Souray-Staios
Grebby-Gilbert
Peckham-Strudwick
Did you forget a or are you serious? That trade it horrible for the Hawks.

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Old
04-10-2009, 12:22 PM
  #24
razman22
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Are you ****in kidding me? Hemsky is a more complete player than Kane, has a better PPG avg this year playing with guys like Reddox, Horcoff, Penner vs Kane's teammates (Toews, Havlat, Sharp), and after next year will make considerably less money (4.1 vs 5.5-6?).

Explain to me how Kane can be a -2 on the same team where his #1 D-man is a +32? Can you say defensive liability?

I wouldn't do this deal based on these facts alone, then when you consider Kane is a midget (listed as 5'10 163 which is a pretty generous 5'10) and that the Oilers are already too small and this becomes an absolute NO from the Oilers. People just get way too caught up in line combos in junior. Because I'm sure the Penguins are just dying to get Pouliot from us and Roussin from FLA (if he's still in their system????).

I'm not sure what is funnier. The fact you said this or that you might really believe this.

Everybody is partial to their teams players but this is comical.

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Old
04-10-2009, 12:23 PM
  #25
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Can't believe the hate Kane gets from some Hawk fans.

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