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Scott Hartnell

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Old
04-08-2009, 04:58 PM
  #26
SFKingshomer
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Yea Hartnell isn't going anywhere. Briere will be traded along with a good prospect or 1st for a bum prospect or mid round pick.

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04-08-2009, 05:03 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
Yea Hartnell isn't going anywhere. Briere will be traded along with a good prospect or 1st for a bum prospect or mid round pick.
That's not going to happen either. There are plenty of pieces to be moved before Briere.

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Old
04-08-2009, 05:03 PM
  #28
wings95
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
again, start with four 1st rnd picks for Hartnell and then we'll talk. until you are willing to pony up that much of an overpayment stop asking for a player that means far more to us than you think he's actually worth. To get Holmgren to trade him you'd have to offer him such an insane deal that he'd have to take it. A "fair value offer" isn't going to get it done, we simply would have no reason to do it. You say we are in cap hell??? No we aren't, we can make the cap without much trouble next year at all. We won't have money to go out and resign Khabiloulin but so what, we can run with pretty much the exact same team we have now and still be under the cap. Where are we sitting right now??? Looking pretty damn good and that was with having Briere out for most of the season, one of our top pairing dmen out for half the year, and another top 6 dman out for half the year.

We do have some quality players that we have replacements for that we'd consider moving but Hartnell isn't one of them. Lupul is expendable because we have JVR to replace him. Jones is expendable because we have Sbisa joining the team full time next season. Contrary to what many may tell you Carle is NOT expendable unless we land either Kaberle or J-Bo and the only way we land J-Bo is if we can deal Briere. We can afford to deal Briere because we have Cater for a #1, Richards for a #2, Giroux for a #3 and Powe for a #4. If we can't deal Briere I'm sure the team would just be devastated by having to keep a point per game player and put him on the wing, yeah, everybody hates to have PPG players on their team.

So again, unless you are paying ten times what he's really worth don't even bother with crappy offers like "mid level prospects and 2nd and 3rd rnd picks" because you are doing us a "favor" by taking on some of our cap "problems".
I don't think your going to get 4 first for him. I could see a top 5 prospect and a first at the most, 4 first is a lot to give up. I know you Philly fans are high on him and I would be to but there would be maybe 5-10 players who might be worth 4 first imo. I don't your management would trade him anyways. He seems to have blossomed there. Good for him. He is what I think the Wings need.

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Old
04-08-2009, 05:56 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
Yea Hartnell isn't going anywhere. Briere will be traded along with a good prospect or 1st for a bum prospect or mid round pick.

I think Lupul is going for an RFA goalie on Draft Day, and Jones is dealt for a low pick or waived. We have JVR and Sbisa to fill those spots better and more cheaply.

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04-08-2009, 05:58 PM
  #30
phlocky
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Originally Posted by wings95 View Post
I don't think your going to get 4 first for him. I could see a top 5 prospect and a first at the most, 4 first is a lot to give up. I know you Philly fans are high on him and I would be to but there would be maybe 5-10 players who might be worth 4 first imo. I don't your management would trade him anyways. He seems to have blossomed there. Good for him. He is what I think the Wings need.
You don't think??? They'd have to be insane to offer us 4 1sts and we'd have to be insane to say no, that was the whole point. Unless the pick was a lottery pick this year and the prospect a top 10 in the world, not just one teams top 5, that's not enough to get the Flyers to bite. Yeah long term it might be better for the Flyers but those 2 players wouldn't be impact players for the Flyers for another 4-5 years in all likelthood. They Flyers will be a far different team then and they could probably kiss away any chance at a cup in the next 3 years.

There are other deals the Flyers can make that are far less impacting to the teams current and future success that can be made.

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Old
04-08-2009, 06:06 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by leaflover View Post
Hartnell is the " I'll do whatever needs doing" type a team that has cup aspirations hangs onto.
so they are trading him ?

is jones + lupal the new ryder + halak ?

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Old
04-08-2009, 06:39 PM
  #32
wings95
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
You don't think??? They'd have to be insane to offer us 4 1sts and we'd have to be insane to say no, that was the whole point. Unless the pick was a lottery pick this year and the prospect a top 10 in the world, not just one teams top 5, that's not enough to get the Flyers to bite. Yeah long term it might be better for the Flyers but those 2 players wouldn't be impact players for the Flyers for another 4-5 years in all likelthood. They Flyers will be a far different team then and they could probably kiss away any chance at a cup in the next 3 years.

There are other deals the Flyers can make that are far less impacting to the teams current and future success that can be made.
Well that is what I was thinking but I was not going to assume anything. I don't think the management well move him. Like it has been stated he means a lot to that team.

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Old
04-08-2009, 08:19 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by dannoabram View Post
so they are trading him ?

is jones + lupal the new ryder + halak ?
except, coming from one flyers fan, we're not expecting a drastic improvement in return. just cap relief via picks and prospects--they're both serviceable players, especially on teams who do have a good cap number.

the expectation from flyers fans is that sbisa will perform at jones' level at 2mil less and JVR will do essentially the same for lupul. that is why flyers fans want them moved and the return value, to make sense, really needs to be prospects/picks.

hartnell is a big time player for this team, signed for a good contract through his prime. you make moves to keep guys like him on the team. the argument to trade hartnell doesn't make sense in that to save cap space, we're taking rookie contracts/draft picks back and they won't fill hartnell's role on the team anywhere in the near future. its counterintuitive to do that as a team looking to contend in the present.

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Old
04-08-2009, 08:21 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
Philly is not in "cap hell."
True. Each year, they rely heavily on the LTIR...

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Old
04-08-2009, 09:16 PM
  #35
mercury
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
True. Each year, they rely heavily on the LTIR...
LTIR is there to replace players who are hurt for an extended period of time.

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Old
04-08-2009, 09:26 PM
  #36
AintLifeGrand
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To Atlanta: Scot Hartnell

To Philly: Todd White, Pavalec, 2nd

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Old
04-08-2009, 10:52 PM
  #37
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For Hartnell I'd give up:

1st round pick - mediocre prospect - mediocre prospect

OR

2nd round pick - top prospect

From a Maple Leafs point of view, neither team does this, but that's what I'd say he's worth. Am I way off Flyers fans?

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Old
04-08-2009, 10:52 PM
  #38
mercury
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Originally Posted by AintLifeGrand View Post
To Atlanta: Scot Hartnell

To Philly: Todd White, Pavalec, 2nd
The last thing we need is another center.

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Old
04-08-2009, 10:56 PM
  #39
mercury
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Originally Posted by Falcons93 View Post
For Hartnell I'd give up:

1st round pick - mediocre prospect - mediocre prospect

OR

2nd round pick - top prospect

From a Maple Leafs point of view, neither team does this, but that's what I'd say he's worth. Am I way off Flyers fans?
I'd want to send Hartnell and one of Jones/Carle for a top-pairing defenseman. I honestly think that they won't trade Hartnell under any circumstances for the duration of his current contract, unless there was a crazy overpayment.

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Old
04-08-2009, 10:59 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by mercury View Post
I'd want to send Hartnell and one of Jones/Carle for a top-pairing defenseman. I honestly think that they won't trade Hartnell under any circumstances for the duration of his current contract, unless there was a crazy overpayment.
Kaberle? Yah, it wouldn't really make sense for the Flyers to get draft picks and prospects. I can't see him being dealt.

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04-08-2009, 11:38 PM
  #41
mercury
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Originally Posted by Falcons93 View Post
Kaberle? Yah, it wouldn't really make sense for the Flyers to get draft picks and prospects. I can't see him being dealt.
I am sure the Leafs could get a better package for Kaberle than Hartnell and Jones/Carle. That ship has sailed, anyway. I really hope that we send Lupul+ for Harding on Draft Day, and somehow get rid of Jones by then. Sign Backlund to an ELC or re-sign Nitty for cheap, re-sign Knuble for about $2 million.

Gagne-Briere-Knuble
Hartnell-Carter-Giroux
JVR-Richards-Nodl
Carcillo-Powe-Asham
Cote(?)

Timonen-Coburn
Sbisa-Parent
Carle-Alberts
Veteran 7th D-man

Harding
Nitty/Backlund


That should be about $54 million in salary, and that is a team that could challenge for the Cup for years.

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Old
04-08-2009, 11:40 PM
  #42
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next offseason when the cap is actually going to go down is when the flyers really need to worry about the cap. only with the impending doom of failing to comply would half the offers i see for flyers players not get laughed at. the flyers spent the money to try and win the cup and theyre going to try and get the most out of that money. past that if the motive is cap relief then the point is to unload bad value contracts. players that either through organisational depth or lack of development arent providing the bang for the buck for our team. you dont throw water in the kitchen if the bathrooms on fire. plyares like gagne and hartnell are on good if not great deals its especially important to hold on to those players due to the cap going down not less. brieres is the problem contract. thats where the dicount is because thats where the cap trouble comes from. whenever you think about philly as cap hell ask yourself "how badly can i underpay for a 1st line point per game center" otherwise your not addressing the problem and we want fair value. yes lupuls contract may be a problem but compared to brieres (or especially if briere is dealt) its a manageble one.

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Old
04-08-2009, 11:44 PM
  #43
mercury
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Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
next offseason when the cap is actually going to go down is when the flyers really need to worry about the cap. only with the impending doom of failing to comply would half the offers i see for flyers players not get laughed at. the flyers spent the money to try and win the cup and theyre going to try and get the most out of that money. past that if the motive is cap relief then the point is to unload bad value contracts. players that either through organisational depth or lack of development arent providing the bang for the buck for our team. you dont throw water in the kitchen if the bathrooms on fire. plyares like gagne and hartnell are on good if not great deals its especially important to hold on to those players due to the cap going down not less. brieres is the problem contract. thats where the dicount is because thats where the cap trouble comes from. whenever you think about philly as cap hell ask yourself "how badly can i underpay for a 1st line point per game center" otherwise your not addressing the problem and we want fair value. yes lupuls contract may be a problem but compared to brieres (or especially if briere is dealt) its a manageble one.

I don't see any way they can impose a lower cap without lowering players' salaries coordinately. That doesn't make sense in a league with guaranteed contracts.

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Old
04-09-2009, 12:51 AM
  #44
phlocky
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Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
next offseason when the cap is actually going to go down is when the flyers really need to worry about the cap. only with the impending doom of failing to comply would half the offers i see for flyers players not get laughed at. the flyers spent the money to try and win the cup and theyre going to try and get the most out of that money. past that if the motive is cap relief then the point is to unload bad value contracts. players that either through organisational depth or lack of development arent providing the bang for the buck for our team. you dont throw water in the kitchen if the bathrooms on fire. plyares like gagne and hartnell are on good if not great deals its especially important to hold on to those players due to the cap going down not less. brieres is the problem contract. thats where the dicount is because thats where the cap trouble comes from. whenever you think about philly as cap hell ask yourself "how badly can i underpay for a 1st line point per game center" otherwise your not addressing the problem and we want fair value. yes lupuls contract may be a problem but compared to brieres (or especially if briere is dealt) its a manageble one.

Briere CAN be moved but it has to be to a team that has a fair bit of free cap space. He IS a PPG center and he IS a true #1 center, 6.5 mil might be a little high for him but not too much. He'd probably be the best center on about half the teams in the league and many would love to add him to their roster. However, because of the LENGTH of his contract, I doubt the Flyers could expect much more than a 2nd for him in return.

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04-09-2009, 12:53 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Briere CAN be moved but it has to be to a team that has a fair bit of free cap space. He IS a PPG center and he IS a true #1 center, 6.5 mil might be a little high for him but not too much. He'd probably be the best center on about half the teams in the league and many would love to add him to their roster. However, because of the LENGTH of his contract, I doubt the Flyers could expect much more than a 2nd for him in return.
He can't go anywhere if he doesn't want to. NMC sonnnnnn.

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Old
04-09-2009, 12:56 AM
  #46
MeowLeafs
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50 bucks says he'll never have better numbers then this season

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04-09-2009, 01:21 AM
  #47
phlocky
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Originally Posted by KewlBum View Post
50 bucks says he'll never have better numbers then this season
Hartnell??? LOL, you'd lose that bet unles he had a career ending injury next season. You really haven't been watching hockey for more than 5 years have you???

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04-09-2009, 01:26 AM
  #48
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I don't see any way they can impose a lower cap without lowering players' salaries coordinately.
Not every team though has a team full of players with big money one-way contracts right now running thru the 2010/11 season (not saying the Flyers do as I haven't really looked into the Flyers cap situation that far ahead).

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Old
04-09-2009, 07:47 AM
  #49
LEIFey
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Originally Posted by KewlBum View Post
50 bucks says he'll never have better numbers then this season
i dunno, he's been floating at 50 pts for a while, it's completely reasonable for him to break 60 again, especially now that he has line chemistry.

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Old
04-09-2009, 03:19 PM
  #50
MeowLeafs
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Hartnell??? LOL, you'd lose that bet unles he had a career ending injury next season. You really haven't been watching hockey for more than 5 years have you???
I will be refering to this post a year from now.

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