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EDM-PIT blockbuster

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Old
04-08-2009, 04:47 PM
  #26
Nunymare
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Too damn risky.

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04-08-2009, 04:53 PM
  #27
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Unless the city of Pittsburgh disappears, I do NOT see Crosby going anywhere. He was drafted a Penguin and will retire a Penguin barring any issues with management.

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Old
04-08-2009, 05:03 PM
  #28
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Old
04-08-2009, 05:32 PM
  #29
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I see where your coming from, and it isn't TERRIBLE.. But Crosby is a generational talent, he won't likely be traded.

The Pens would be better off going after some free agents in the offseason.

I suppose if they had to trade him Hemsky and Gagner would be a good start. Add 3-4 first round picks to the deal as well, along with atleast one top prospect.

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04-08-2009, 05:38 PM
  #30
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I am shocked this thread is still open

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Old
04-09-2009, 07:15 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
To PIT: Hemsky, Gagner, (choice of) Grebeshkov/Gilbert, 1st 09 (8th-10th overall)

To EDM: Crosby

Why PIT might do it: Because this team could improve its chances of being a perrenial Stanley cup finalist with a better supporting cast. Consider that with Crosby in tow, they have 40mil tied up in 7 players next year (Crosby, Malkin, Gonchar, Orpik, Staal, Kunitz, MAF). If the cap is 55mil next year, thats 15mil for the remaining 16players that make up the active roster. No doubt that is an impressive core, but leaves little money for a championship calibre supporting cast (See Red Wings, Detroit). Hemsky is a lock for 85-90pts playing with Malkin. Gagner has put the sophomore jinx to rest with a stellar second half. Grebeshkov would look great playing with Gonchar. 1st line RW, 19yr old top 6 F, and a Dman that would be (at worst) a #3 on the Pens (37pts and +10). Now they only need 14 players with 15mil remaining and less big needs (top 4 D now filled, 1 less top 6 F needed).

Why EDM might do it: Because Crosby is a top 5 player in the game. The deal includes significant risks (Hemsky should really blossom playing with players of equal/greater talent, the deal is a slight overpayment, a lot of money tied up in one player), but Katz has to do something to pacify a rabid fan base that - despite missing the playoffs for a 3rd yr in a row - is likely facing another increase in ticket pricing. Another risk of course is he's only guaranteed to be here for 4 yrs when he becomes a UFA.

I really don't know if I could pull the trigger on a deal like this from either team's perspective. Thoughts?

Usually, when someone explains how great it would be for one side and how risky it is for the other you can be sure that the deal will be greatly favoring the team taking the "risks". You are just trying to sell a deal that you know isn't fair.

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Old
04-09-2009, 10:11 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Kashmir150 View Post
Add Malkin and maybe Edmonton considers it.
In all fairness to the author of this thread, I think s/he is on the right track - just a little bit off of the mark.

Like it or not fans of those flightless birds, Pittsburgh has little choice but to move an asset or two. The redundancy on the team, and a great deal of its cap space, is tied up in a limited number of players. While I doubt Crosby is even a consideration - whether he is the best player on the team or not, he is the face of the franchise and to a degree the new NHL (granted, it should be Ovechkin) - I would not make the same assumptions about Staal, or even Malkin.

Is Malkin the best player on the Penguins? I am sure fans of those ice treading fowl routinely argue about whether it is Crosby or Malkin. But the fact is, Malkin could bring the Penguins enough assets to guarantee a good and affordable team for years to come. If I were Steve Tambellini - the Oilers GM - I would certainly be inquiring into Malkin. And if the door were slammed in my face, I would then peak my head back in and ask about Staal.

I am not sure what the black and white, ice treading, and flightless birds really need, but if inquiring into Malkin did not result in being thrown out I would certainly begin with Hemsky. As far as I know, the birds do require a line mate for Crosby - and Hemsky would be a very nice fit given his skill, his age, and certainly his cap hit (some would argue that Hemsky is one of the better cap hits in the league). I am not saying this lightly, as I would be sorry to see Hemsky go (even in a trade for Malkin).

Acquiring Malkin would give the Oilers a piece they could build around for years to come - and he is one of the best. I am not sure what else it would take to acquire the Russian Dynamo, and I will not speculate as I do not know much about the Antarctic fowl.

But if the conversation between GM's moved on to Staal because Malkin was off of the table, Hemsky would no longer be an option in trade.

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Old
04-09-2009, 10:34 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
In all fairness to the author of this thread, I think s/he is on the right track - just a little bit off of the mark.

Like it or not fans of those flightless birds, Pittsburgh has little choice but to move an asset or two. The redundancy on the team, and a great deal of its cap space, is tied up in a limited number of players. While I doubt Crosby is even a consideration - whether he is the best player on the team or not, he is the face of the franchise and to a degree the new NHL (granted, it should be Ovechkin) - I would not make the same assumptions about Staal, or even Malkin.

Is Malkin the best player on the Penguins? I am sure fans of those ice treading fowl routinely argue about whether it is Crosby or Malkin. But the fact is, Malkin could bring the Penguins enough assets to guarantee a good and affordable team for years to come. If I were Steve Tambellini - the Oilers GM - I would certainly be inquiring into Malkin. And if the door were slammed in my face, I would then peak my head back in and ask about Staal.

I am not sure what the black and white, ice treading, and flightless birds really need, but if inquiring into Malkin did not result in being thrown out I would certainly begin with Hemsky. As far as I know, the birds do require a line mate for Crosby - and Hemsky would be a very nice fit given his skill, his age, and certainly his cap hit (some would argue that Hemsky is one of the better cap hits in the league). I am not saying this lightly, as I would be sorry to see Hemsky go (even in a trade for Malkin).

Acquiring Malkin would give the Oilers a piece they could build around for years to come - and he is one of the best. I am not sure what else it would take to acquire the Russian Dynamo, and I will not speculate as I do not know much about the Antarctic fowl.

But if the conversation between GM's moved on to Staal because Malkin was off of the table, Hemsky would no longer be an option in trade.
The players the Pens would get for Malkin aren't free either. The players coming in return would likely eat up more cap space than Malkin does and I'd rather have Malkin.

Staal or somebody else will be dealt long before Malkin is.

Crosby will likely never leave since he has such a good relationship with the ownership (Mario in particular)

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Old
04-09-2009, 10:43 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
The players the Pens would get for Malkin aren't free either. The players coming in return would likely eat up more cap space than Malkin does and I'd rather have Malkin.

Staal or somebody else will be dealt long before Malkin is.

Crosby will likely never leave since he has such a good relationship with the ownership (Mario in particular)
He's right. Neither of them will be moved, unless it's late in their career or they become injured goods.

For some unforseen reason, people forget about the most important factor with regards to the ownership: revenue. Crosby and Malkin will bring in far more cash in sales than any other players in the league, except for Ovie.

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Old
04-09-2009, 11:37 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Zal View Post
He's right. Neither of them will be moved, unless it's late in their career or they become injured goods.

For some unforseen reason, people forget about the most important factor with regards to the ownership: revenue. Crosby and Malkin will bring in far more cash in sales than any other players in the league, except for Ovie.
Of course what you are saying is true... but Crosby alone will fill seats. Likewise the earlier comment about cap space and Malkin vs. a few other players is valid, but for what Malkin is being paid the Penguins could ice one very good player (Hemsky - 4 million), and a couple other solid players... thus deepening the team (so to speak). This too would fill seats. Hemsky and Crosby together on a line could be very exciting; this too would bring people in.

Does Crosby and Malkin bring in greater revenue than Crosby alone? Would Crosby/Malkin guarantee more success and seats than Crosby/Hemsky? I am not so sure (I am not claiming that Hemsky is = Malkin)... I am simply pointing out that there is a certain degree of redundancy in this line of reasoning. Ovechkin alone fills seats, why wouldn't Crosby do the same? And as I mentioned, a line with Crosby and Hemsky could be very exciting. Sykora also plays quite well with Hemsky.

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Old
04-09-2009, 05:37 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
Of course what you are saying is true... but Crosby alone will fill seats. Likewise the earlier comment about cap space and Malkin vs. a few other players is valid, but for what Malkin is being paid the Penguins could ice one very good player (Hemsky - 4 million), and a couple other solid players... thus deepening the team (so to speak). This too would fill seats. Hemsky and Crosby together on a line could be very exciting; this too would bring people in.

Does Crosby and Malkin bring in greater revenue than Crosby alone? Would Crosby/Malkin guarantee more success and seats than Crosby/Hemsky? I am not so sure (I am not claiming that Hemsky is = Malkin)... I am simply pointing out that there is a certain degree of redundancy in this line of reasoning. Ovechkin alone fills seats, why wouldn't Crosby do the same? And as I mentioned, a line with Crosby and Hemsky could be very exciting. Sykora also plays quite well with Hemsky.
Unless Edmonton having being hiding another Hemsky level player on 4 million a year contract, Pens wouldn't even pick up the Phone.

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Old
04-09-2009, 05:47 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
Of course what you are saying is true... but Crosby alone will fill seats. Likewise the earlier comment about cap space and Malkin vs. a few other players is valid, but for what Malkin is being paid the Penguins could ice one very good player (Hemsky - 4 million), and a couple other solid players... thus deepening the team (so to speak). This too would fill seats. Hemsky and Crosby together on a line could be very exciting; this too would bring people in.
Why do people think that Crosby and Hemsky would work well together?

Christ, somebody on a line has shoot the damn puck, and if we were ever stupid enough to trade a player with Malkin's skill, accomplishments, potential, and contract, it sure as hell wouldn't be centered around a pass-first winger.

Yeah, Hemsky's very skilled. He's also the worst possible elite match for Crosby. Trades do not happen in a vacuum...you have to consider how players would complement one another, and a Crosby/Hemsky pair-up looks terrible to me.

Quote:
Does Crosby and Malkin bring in greater revenue than Crosby alone? Would Crosby/Malkin guarantee more success and seats than Crosby/Hemsky? I am not so sure (I am not claiming that Hemsky is = Malkin)... I am simply pointing out that there is a certain degree of redundancy in this line of reasoning. Ovechkin alone fills seats, why wouldn't Crosby do the same? And as I mentioned, a line with Crosby and Hemsky could be very exciting. Sykora also plays quite well with Hemsky.
I'm willing to take my chances, seeing as how Malkin is better than Hemsky in every way imaginable, and in their second season together, Crosby and Malkin took their team to a Cup Final.

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Old
04-09-2009, 08:08 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by The Pucks View Post
Its been a long, long season for suffering Oilers fans.

Hemsky, Gagner, Gilbert cap hit, 9.75 million

Crosby cap hit 8.7 million.

If your going to sell a deal on cap savings, might actually want to consider the salary of the guys your trading.
This encompasses the Pittsburgh mentality to a T. You realize that while Crosby is way better than any of those players, there are 3 of them, right? So what 2 players are you going to sign for 1.05mil (or even less if you use Grebeshkov who I thought Pens fans would prefer)?

Crosby better than Hemsky or Gagner or Gilbert? Obviously.

Crosby and 4th liner making league min and another 4th liner making league min better than Hemsky and Gagner and Gilbert? You're a tard if you answer yes.

**** on my proposal all you want, maybe it should have included 1sts in 10 and 11. Or maybe Malkin's the more available of the two. Or maybe this just isn't a good enough offer and another team with better players on better contracts and a higher 1st rder(s) would be out there. But Pens fans are completely delusional if they think that 2 players (albeit 2 of the top 5 in the game today) making a combined 17.4 mil will allow them to properly build a cup champ.

Next year, cap is suppose to stay relatively the same. 7 players making 39 mil (Cros, Malkin, Kunitz, Staal, Gonchar, Orpik, MAF). 15-16mil for 16 more active roster players.

After that year, Gonchar's done, so that's 5mil off the books - but its lateral because he's worth every penny. So now, you have 6 players making 34mil (and Letang to re-sign), with analysts projecting a 48-50 mil cap (and even that may be high). Where are you going to get 2 more top 6 forwards, 2 top 4 Dmen and round out the remaining 13 players beyond that all for 14-16mil? Not happening.

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Old
04-09-2009, 08:29 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
This encompasses the Pittsburgh mentality to a T. You realize that while Crosby is way better than any of those players, there are 3 of them, right? So what 2 players are you going to sign for 1.05mil (or even less if you use Grebeshkov who I thought Pens fans would prefer)?

Crosby better than Hemsky or Gagner or Gilbert? Obviously.

Crosby and 4th liner making league min and another 4th liner making league min better than Hemsky and Gagner and Gilbert? You're a tard if you answer yes.

**** on my proposal all you want, maybe it should have included 1sts in 10 and 11. Or maybe Malkin's the more available of the two. Or maybe this just isn't a good enough offer and another team with better players on better contracts and a higher 1st rder(s) would be out there. But Pens fans are completely delusional if they think that 2 players (albeit 2 of the top 5 in the game today) making a combined 17.4 mil will allow them to properly build a cup champ.

Next year, cap is suppose to stay relatively the same. 7 players making 39 mil (Cros, Malkin, Kunitz, Staal, Gonchar, Orpik, MAF). 15-16mil for 16 more active roster players.

After that year, Gonchar's done, so that's 5mil off the books - but its lateral because he's worth every penny. So now, you have 6 players making 34mil (and Letang to re-sign), with analysts projecting a 48-50 mil cap (and even that may be high). Where are you going to get 2 more top 6 forwards, 2 top 4 Dmen and round out the remaining 13 players beyond that all for 14-16mil? Not happening.
Translation:

You don't like my proposal, so I predict doom for your team. Dooooom!

But you know what? We have defensemen like Goligoski (1st in rookie defense scoring when he was sent down, 28 points in 23 AHL games this year) and Lovejoy (very steady in his own end, 1st in AHL +/-) progressing very, very nicely down in the minors, and solid wing prospects like Tangradi, Caputi, CPZ, and Veilleux as potential top 6 contributors by '10-'11.

So thanks, but we'll keep the leading scorer in the NHL and take our chances with good prospects and astute FA signings.

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Old
04-09-2009, 09:06 PM
  #40
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Old
04-10-2009, 12:14 AM
  #41
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Wow.... thats crazy

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04-10-2009, 12:20 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
To PIT: Hemsky, Gagner, (choice of) Grebeshkov/Gilbert, 1st 09 (8th-10th overall)

To EDM: Crosby
Hmm good trade for the Atlantic Division.

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Old
04-10-2009, 03:59 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
This encompasses the Pittsburgh mentality to a T. You realize that while Crosby is way better than any of those players, there are 3 of them, right? So what 2 players are you going to sign for 1.05mil (or even less if you use Grebeshkov who I thought Pens fans would prefer)?

Crosby better than Hemsky or Gagner or Gilbert? Obviously.

Crosby and 4th liner making league min and another 4th liner making league min better than Hemsky and Gagner and Gilbert? You're a tard if you answer yes.

**** on my proposal all you want, maybe it should have included 1sts in 10 and 11. Or maybe Malkin's the more available of the two. Or maybe this just isn't a good enough offer and another team with better players on better contracts and a higher 1st rder(s) would be out there. But Pens fans are completely delusional if they think that 2 players (albeit 2 of the top 5 in the game today) making a combined 17.4 mil will allow them to properly build a cup champ.

Next year, cap is suppose to stay relatively the same. 7 players making 39 mil (Cros, Malkin, Kunitz, Staal, Gonchar, Orpik, MAF). 15-16mil for 16 more active roster players.

After that year, Gonchar's done, so that's 5mil off the books - but its lateral because he's worth every penny. So now, you have 6 players making 34mil (and Letang to re-sign), with analysts projecting a 48-50 mil cap (and even that may be high). Where are you going to get 2 more top 6 forwards, 2 top 4 Dmen and round out the remaining 13 players beyond that all for 14-16mil? Not happening.
Funny stuff, the OP calling someone a tard ...

Anyway, I'm holding out on dealing Crosby until we can get Ryder+Halak+2nd.

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Old
04-10-2009, 05:19 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
Why do people think that Crosby and Hemsky would work well together?

Christ, somebody on a line has shoot the damn puck, and if we were ever stupid enough to trade a player with Malkin's skill, accomplishments, potential, and contract, it sure as hell wouldn't be centered around a pass-first winger.

Yeah, Hemsky's very skilled. He's also the worst possible elite match for Crosby. Trades do not happen in a vacuum...you have to consider how players would complement one another, and a Crosby/Hemsky pair-up looks terrible to me.



I'm willing to take my chances, seeing as how Malkin is better than Hemsky in every way imaginable, and in their second season together, Crosby and Malkin took their team to a Cup Final.
Take your logical coherent post and GTFO! This thread is for atrocious proposals and facepalms. If you want to contribute, go find a picture of an 80's sitcom 'star' looking unimpressed and post the damn picture. Otherwise, make like an egg, and beat it!

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Old
04-10-2009, 05:34 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by The Pucks View Post
Its been a long, long season for suffering Oilers fans.

Hemsky, Gagner, Gilbert cap hit, 9.75 million

Crosby cap hit 8.7 million.

If your going to sell a deal on cap savings, might actually want to consider the salary of the guys your trading.
yea but with Gilbert Satan becomes redundant, and with Hemsky and Ganger Fleury becomes redundant, and with the 1st round pick Gonchar, Dupuis, Boucher, Eaton and Fedotenko become redundant, so Pens can shave another 22 million off the cap in addition to Crosby's 8.7 million, and all that ridiculous cap space could be used to sign someone like Cammalleri and Gaborik or trade for Redden and Briere. All in all the pens would be a much better team if this went through. Just think.

Hemsky Malkin Gaborik
Cammalleri Briere Sykora
Cooke Staal Cammalleri
1st round pick Talbot Godard

Goligoski Scuder
Gilbert Gagner
Redden Bouwmeester

Garon
???

That's a team with pretty good cup winning potential, eh? Could probably even make it to 7 games in the final round.

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Old
04-10-2009, 06:47 PM
  #46
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To Edmonton:

Mario Lemieux

To Pittsburgh:

Wayne Gretzky

Fair?
LMAO @ your Sig! That's Colin Mochrie's reaction to your proposal OP!

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04-10-2009, 07:50 PM
  #47
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Posting in another retarded Pens trade proposal, thread try this

To the Oilers

Crosby

to the Pens

Proof of the resurrection

that's the only way Crosby ends up on the Oilers. At least you are a step up from the Oilers fans who make Crosby/Malkin proposals and don't even include Hemsky.

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Old
04-10-2009, 08:43 PM
  #48
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I agree getting Crosby would be next to impossible to do, but the value in that trade isn't far off IMO. All 3 players going to pitts have the potential to be all stars in this league, maybe not superstars. All 3 are young, all 3 add up to Crosby's salary. Then you add in a top 10 pick, maybe the pens pass, but its not because that package doesn't have value. In a non salary cap league, no chance the penguins ever even consider this deal, in a salary cap league, with a cap on its way down... how can they not? Malkin or Crosby, either way this is the kind of deal the Oilers would like to make. they want to get a young superstar and build around him. Both Crosby and Malkin fit that description. The pens better win this year, because when the cap starts dropping, they are gonna start to look an awful lot like Tampa Bay. Having the best superstars doesn't always result in Stanley cups.

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04-10-2009, 08:50 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by JustinCider View Post
I agree getting Crosby would be next to impossible to do, but the value in that trade isn't far off IMO. All 3 players going to pitts have the potential to be all stars in this league, maybe not superstars. All 3 are young, all 3 add up to Crosby's salary. Then you add in a top 10 pick, maybe the pens pass, but its not because that package doesn't have value. In a non salary cap league, no chance the penguins ever even consider this deal, in a salary cap league, with a cap on its way down... how can they not? Malkin or Crosby, either way this is the kind of deal the Oilers would like to make. they want to get a young superstar and build around him. Both Crosby and Malkin fit that description. The pens better win this year, because when the cap starts dropping, they are gonna start to look an awful lot like Tampa Bay. Having the best superstars doesn't always result in Stanley cups.
Sigh people still say this Tampa Bay ********? I thought all of that idiocy had finally gone, Tampa Bay overpaid Richards, let go of Khabibulin, had a self imposed cap. Pittsburgh has no self imposed cap, doesn't overpay either of our superstars and has our number one goalie locked up. When we grossly overpay someone to the point they overpaid Richards, when we let Fleury go, when we can't spend to the cap then you let me know.

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Old
04-10-2009, 09:12 PM
  #50
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I love how every other fan is concerned with the well-being of our teams financial "problems" as they like to see it. The solution is always to trade the best players on the team to "improve" the team overall. This logic makes no sense what-so-ever.

First off let our GM worry about building a team around our stars. They do better then all of us which is why the own the big houses.

Secondly we are really in no worse shape then many of the other teams in this league when you look towards 2 seasons down the road (which is really the issue everyone is presenting). There are alot of other teams going in as bad, if not worse situations then the Penguins are for 2010/11. Why not go after all of their top players?

Finally in any real business situation you do not fire your best workers first in hopes that their cheaper replacements will live up to or excel at the same pace. A financially struggling business will likely eliminate their weakest parts or front line guys and rely on the best workers to pick up the slack. This is no different. Crosby, Malkin, Staal will likely have to carry a bigger load if the cap gets smaller and their wingers are less talented in the future.

Ultimately you don't sell away your best assets unless you absolutely have to and the Penguins are not even close to the point where the need to sell these guys.

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