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Old
03-17-2004, 05:27 PM
  #1
Holly Gunning
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New Top 20 posted

HF Staffer-at-Large George Bachul and Minnesota page writer Glen Jackson collaborated on the ranking and writeup.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...readed&order=0

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03-17-2004, 05:38 PM
  #2
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Nice work - I agree pretty much with everything, except Wanvig could be a bit higher.

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03-17-2004, 05:46 PM
  #3
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Thanks to both for the work! Nice to see a concise, current write-up for the guys.

If I changed anything, I'd move Irmen up 4 or more spots. (I really think he's going to be successful.) I guess it depends on what exactly is being ranked, though.

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03-17-2004, 06:01 PM
  #4
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For kicks, here's the new top 20 with HF's predictions for their upsides:

1. Mikko Koivu - 7.5 (1st - 2nd line forward)
2. Patrick O’Sullivan - 7 (2nd line forward)
3. Josh Harding - 6.5 (Backup Goalie)
4. Rickard Wallin - 6.5 (2nd -3rd line forward)
5. Matt Foy - 7 (2nd line forward)
6. Stephane Veilleux - 6.5 (2nd -3rd line forward)
7. Adam Courchaine - 7 (2nd line forward)
8. Chris Heid - 6 (Top 5 D)
9. Zbynek Michalek - 5 (6th-7th D)
10. Kyle Wanvig - 6.5 (2nd -3rd line forward)
11. Eric Reitz - 6 (Top 5 D)
12. Marc Cavosie - 5.5 (3rd - 4th line forward)
13. Mika Hannula - 5 (4th line forward)
14. Danny Irmen - 5.5 (3rd - 4th line forward)
15. Mark Cullen - 4.5 (4th line forward - High-end minor leaguer)
16. Dan Cavanaugh - 4 (High-end minor leaguer)
17. Frederic Cloutier - 4 (High-end minor leaguer)
18. Armands Berzins - 4 (High-end minor leaguer)
19. Barry Brust - 4 (High-end minor leaguer)
20. Nicklas Eckerblom - 3.5 (High-end minor leaguer - minor league role player)

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03-17-2004, 06:34 PM
  #5
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Sweet! Thanks guys! I was really hopeing that HF would update our prospects someday. And that day has finally come! Great work guys...

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03-18-2004, 01:13 AM
  #6
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Hi guys, George here. I think one of the things that you have to take into account that it is a sliding gradient with many factors being taken into account when reranking the players.

1. Potential. What is the upside? What is the most that this player can become? As an NHL player Mikko Koivu could become Mike Modano, or he could become Patrik Stefan.

2. Likelyhood of achieving that potential. Veilleux might only become a 3rd/4th line NHL winger but will likely acheive that goal.

Very much a balancing act and very much a sliding target depending on who you speak to.

A good example is the comment on Irmen being up a few spots, but as a 19 year old freshman at U of Minnesota on a good team and has put up what I would consider adequate but unspectacular numbers 10-7-17 in 40 games. Just as a quick comparison to Mika Hannula who is ranked right above him has had a good transition year to North America has a legitimate shot at camp to compete for a job as early as next season as a bottom 6 forward. Irmen has better potiential on the higher end, but is further away from achieving it because he will continue to develop in Minnesota next season. Thus the sliding rule of how they are ranked comes into play.

Hopefully that explains it a bit.

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Old
03-18-2004, 09:58 AM
  #7
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Thanks Slats - say, who is that goalie on your avatar, and about when was he playing - I can see now why they say goalie equipment has grown; that guy looks like a scrawny chicken out there with those tiny pads.

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03-18-2004, 10:13 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookman
Thanks Slats - say, who is that goalie on your avatar, and about when was he playing - I can see now why they say goalie equipment has grown; that guy looks like a scrawny chicken out there with those tiny pads.
The goaltender is good old Mike Palmateer.(The goaltender that was in net to upset the Islanders in 1978)

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Old
03-18-2004, 12:52 PM
  #9
ceber
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
Hopefully that explains it a bit.
Absolutely explains it. Also, just to be clear, my Irmen comment wasn't a complaint or intended to be critical.


What are the chances that we're one of the four teams without a prospect in HF's top 50? Looking at the first release (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article.php?sid=6773), I'd say we've got a shot. Maybe Koivu cracks the list, but I seem to remember him dropping off pretty rapidly on recent lists. Maybe O'Sullivan? For a long time it seems like nobody's really had much interest in any of the guys we have. Doesn't help things that we've brought so many guys up right away instead of leaving them in the minors, I suppose.

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03-21-2004, 01:27 AM
  #10
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What about Kopiva or what ever his name is?

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03-21-2004, 05:20 PM
  #11
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What about Kopiva or what ever his name is?
He's not playing real well in the upper leagues. I think there is a link to his stats somewhere.

Miroslav Kopriva

I'm not sure your looking for stats but there's really no way to guage his perfomance. There doesn't seem to be anyone that knows much about him on these boards.

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03-21-2004, 09:27 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceber
Absolutely explains it. Also, just to be clear, my Irmen comment wasn't a complaint or intended to be critical.


What are the chances that we're one of the four teams without a prospect in HF's top 50? Looking at the first release (http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article.php?sid=6773), I'd say we've got a shot. Maybe Koivu cracks the list, but I seem to remember him dropping off pretty rapidly on recent lists. Maybe O'Sullivan? For a long time it seems like nobody's really had much interest in any of the guys we have. Doesn't help things that we've brought so many guys up right away instead of leaving them in the minors, I suppose.
I'd say there's a very big possibility. I'll be surprised if any of them make the list.

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Old
03-21-2004, 11:04 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MePutPuckInNet
I'd say there's a very big possibility. I'll be surprised if any of them make the list.
I partially agree. Top 50 lists are usually reserved for the most hyped of the hyped prospects. Production is important, but not always a deciding factor. The only prospect that we have that fits these two criteria is Patty O. Top ten scorer in the OHL on top of all the well publicized family problems, well that reaches out and grabs ya. Plus I think alot of scouts are totally enamored with the '03 class, maybe a little too much, and not too many made more of splash on that draft day than O'Sully. I would say he has about a 60/40 chance to crack the top 50, but no one else.

BTW, catch any Ice Dog games in Miss.?

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03-21-2004, 11:11 PM
  #14
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You bet....as often as I can.

O'Sullivan will surprise most of the Wild fans, I'm sure.

ps....I don't really think O'Sullivan's been hyped very much at all. I know his story has been out there for all to hear, but as far as his actual hockey talent goes, I don't think he's been hyped nearly enough. Somehow it's gotten lost in the "O'Sullivan saga"....which is too bad, since it's the thing that really should be in the fore front....


Last edited by MePutPuckInNet: 03-21-2004 at 11:23 PM.
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Old
03-21-2004, 11:54 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MePutPuckInNet
You bet....as often as I can.

O'Sullivan will surprise most of the Wild fans, I'm sure.

ps....I don't really think O'Sullivan's been hyped very much at all. I know his story has been out there for all to hear, but as far as his actual hockey talent goes, I don't think he's been hyped nearly enough. Somehow it's gotten lost in the "O'Sullivan saga"....which is too bad, since it's the thing that really should be in the fore front....
There was alot of hype during the draft, due to his slipping, but I think that is a testiment to his potential. A lot of mock drafts had him in the top 20...to fall to #56, well obviously his skills weren't the problem. The hype was an indirect result of his talent. Yeah that is too bad that hockey isn't the reason his name gets brought up so much, but I see this as motivation for him. I definitely am ready for him to make believers outta all of us.

I remember during the draft thinking, this is divine intervention. I think somebody up there is a Wild fan...


Last edited by Wild Bill: 03-22-2004 at 02:25 AM. Reason: direct no equal indirect
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Old
03-22-2004, 01:30 AM
  #16
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As an O'Sullivan aside, I expected him to be a first rounder, and would have been well pleased if he was selected by my team the Oilers at 17th overall.

Much talk has been lamented on the Oiler HF board the we could have ended up with Parise/O'Sullivan as opposed to Pouliot/McDonald.(This being very honest, because I was quite knowledgeable of the draft and studied much up to draft day, if I was the one making the Oiler's selections, that is who they would have ended up with. )

I do understand though moreso why O'Sullivan dropped. Last week on "The Fifth Estate." a CBC documentary was done about Patrick and his personal saga. The one thing I distinctly remember was the draft day video of him and his interviews and I would have to say his nerves and inability to answer the questions with ease(not that I am knocking him for it.) were one of the reasons I could see the drop. He didn't look confident, he didn't look self assured, and his answers weren't that fluid.

So now if you are an NHL GM you have to not only deal with the rhetoric about Patrick's personal issues, you have not been reassured by him that the issues have been dealt with and are in the past.

My personal opinion is that Patrick will be a success at the NHL level. Top six scoring forward. I don't want to project numbers because I don't think those pages have been writen yet.

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Old
03-22-2004, 04:12 PM
  #17
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As a Yotes fan I find it funny that Schutte is still listed on your list as a 7 at LW. He was by Phoenix to. I don't think he played more than a few games at LW for the Phoenix organization or for Maine before that. They did use him as a forward on the power play at Maine. I think someone is not doing their homework here. I see him as about a 6 - 6.5 as a Defenseman and I believe that's what he is playing in Houston based on one reference on the Springfield message board where Falcons fans blame McSorely for losing him. I know he was impressive when I saw him at the Frozen Four and I see that Dyment is not being used in Springfield. I didn't agree with this trade at the time but neither may end up in the NHL so it may not turn out to be that big of a deal. I just thought Schutte had a lot more upside.

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Old
03-22-2004, 04:22 PM
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I wouldn't get very giddy over this group. None are projected to be first liners. Well then, precisely who is going to play on the first line? Koviou was #6 overall, you need a first line skill player from that kind of pick.

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Old
03-22-2004, 04:40 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eye
As a Yotes fan I find it funny that Schutte is still listed on your list as a 7 at LW. He was by Phoenix to.
Good eye on that one (pardon the pun. ). The player was moved over on my request after the trade, but that was the only action taken.

Glen Jackson, the new Wild writer is the man responsible for the task of updating the players and their rankings (I did some work on the ratings out of 10 with him), and he will be providing the new rankings shortly from what I understand.

Stay tuned.

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Old
03-23-2004, 03:08 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by slats432
Glen Jackson, the new Wild writer is the man responsible for the task of updating the players and their rankings (I did some work on the ratings out of 10 with him), and he will be providing the new rankings shortly from what I understand.
Yes, thanks for the reminder guys. I'd noticed that little discrepency right after we had posted the top 20. I still need to update the rest of the page.

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03-25-2004, 10:42 AM
  #21
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Originally Posted by glenjackson
Yes, thanks for the reminder guys. I'd noticed that little discrepency right after we had posted the top 20. I still need to update the rest of the page.
Thanks for the update Glen. I have some interest here because I was disappointed that Phoenix allowed Schutte to escape McSorely. I was hoping he would outlive McSorely who has earned a bad reputation for his handling of prospects and has resulted in Phoenix calling up many players just to get them away from Wayne's friend Marty. Last year Tampa Bay who shared the affiliation in Springfield did the same thing with 3 of their players who Marty chose not to play. Ask anyone on the Phoenix board and they will tell you I used to hate these lists that were made up by people like yourself who I doubt has seen even 2/3's of the players so often these lists are based on draft position, hype, stats, etc. and have no regard for how a player is currently playing or who he is partnered with but I have learned if you can't beat them join them. I'm not totally sure how your ratings work but isn't 4.5 6th or 7th D potential with potential being the key word. As for Schutte I not only saw him play in St. Paul at the FF and against the Moose in the AHL where he showed a lot of skill and on ice presence and IMO had more like 6.5 NHL potential but I also read a thorough recap which I can't find anymore to post but he had quite the track record. From memory he led all Ontario Junior Defensemen in scoring one year, won Ontario D of the year, led Maine in power play goals his last 2 years but I think he played Fwd. on the power play, won NCAA player of the month recognition and scored about 6 important goals against the Golden Gophers including 1 with 3 seconds left to knock them out the prior year to their current FF streak. I think the Wild have acquired a good one here and since I am already on record as saying Phoenix mgt. mishandle their assets, makes more mistakes than good decisions and don't have a vision or a plan I would like to see him prove them wrong. He got more pts. as a rookie last year than any of your rookie D I believe and may just need a training camp with the Wild or Aeros to get his comfort zone back.

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Old
03-25-2004, 10:53 AM
  #22
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How has Rickard Wallin been doing since he was recalled from Houston? Saw that he had over 19 minutes of ice-time the last game. Is he name for Minnesota next season?

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Old
03-25-2004, 11:38 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Robertsson 4-ever
How has Rickard Wallin been doing since he was recalled from Houston? Saw that he had over 19 minutes of ice-time the last game. Is he name for Minnesota next season?
He's getting an extended audition from Lemaire, playing a regular shift, including power play. He's been good on face offs and mucking in the corners, but otherwise he hasn't shown a lot. He also seems prone to bad penalties. Likely his training camp next year will be make or break for him.

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03-25-2004, 06:22 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by eye
From memory he led all Ontario Junior Defensemen in scoring one year, won Ontario D of the year, led Maine in power play goals his last 2 years but I think he played Fwd. on the power play, won NCAA player of the month recognition and scored about 6 important goals against the Golden Gophers including 1 with 3 seconds left to knock them out the prior year to their current FF streak. I think the Wild have acquired a good one here and since I am already on record as saying Phoenix mgt. mishandle their assets, makes more mistakes than good decisions and don't have a vision or a plan I would like to see him prove them wrong. He got more pts. as a rookie last year than any of your rookie D I believe and may just need a training camp with the Wild or Aeros to get his comfort zone back.
Hey, thanks for all of the info. Schutte was looking like a can't miss and was regarded very highly out of Maine to be sure. You make some valid points and if it was the system/Marty holding him back then I'll be happy to be wrong on that rating. I hope that (Marty) does explain things, because his drop off has been confusing (7-16-23 last year in 61 total games, 5-2-7 through 41 games this year). This was my first ratings adjustment with the Wild and I dropped him from 7 to 4.5 as he grows closer to 25 (July birthday), so if I'm wrong you'll have to cut me some slack...or not

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