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Can Brian Burke do it?

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Old
04-10-2009, 01:53 AM
  #51
VelvetJones
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Simple moves from a simple brain.

Burke signs these guys to low risk low salary contracts and if they don't pan out nobody cares. Leafs aren't going anywhere near the cap in the next two years so throw out all the bonuses you want and the long term plan is to hope for UFA's in two years after getting some high draft picks.

Burke isn't planning on winning a cup in a long time so he gets some plugs for the lineup that are men now and not overpaid ufa bums from other teams.

All this shows is there are years of rough waters ahead for the blue and white with some carrot dangling ahead. Burke will do what Burke does, suck unless someone gives him a team ready to succeed.

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04-10-2009, 02:41 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMacdonald View Post
Simple moves from a simple brain.

Burke signs these guys to low risk low salary contracts and if they don't pan out nobody cares. Leafs aren't going anywhere near the cap in the next two years so throw out all the bonuses you want and the long term plan is to hope for UFA's in two years after getting some high draft picks.

Burke isn't planning on winning a cup in a long time so he gets some plugs for the lineup that are men now and not overpaid ufa bums from other teams.

All this shows is there are years of rough waters ahead for the blue and white with some carrot dangling ahead. Burke will do what Burke does, suck unless someone gives him a team ready to succeed.
signing highly regarded young players = years of rough waters ahead?


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04-10-2009, 03:27 AM
  #53
Barney Gumble
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Originally Posted by Gord Millers Chin View Post
The Maple Leafs have already signed 2 of the top 3 NCAA free agent prospects (Christian Hanson, Tyler Bozak). It is rumoured that Matt Gilroy and Jonas Gustavsson are on their radar and Toronto is listed as "one of two teams" in the running for both Gilroy and Gustavsson.
How many professional contracts do the Leafs have now? They must be close to 50 (especially after taking those contracts from Tampa Bay in that trade deadline deal).

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04-10-2009, 03:33 AM
  #54
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No question Bozak and hanson were good signings by burke, and if he can land Gustaffson, then awesome, gilroy would be great , but not at a rediculous price tag, he hasnt proven anything yet to warrent a big pay day.( so i dont think burke is that stupid)
But before we can say Burke has done a great job, we have to wait and see what happens at this years draft. and also this summer. This next few months will determin weather he is the best GM the leafs ever had or not. He talks a big game but will he back it up? we will have to wait and see.. So far i like what he has done up to this point.

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04-10-2009, 03:39 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by embracedbias View Post
signing highly regarded young players = years of rough waters ahead?

pffft, highly regarded NCAA players are far from NHL players. AHL players that do well most of the time never make more than 4th liners.

Keep the kool-aid flowing Toronto.

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04-10-2009, 04:30 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by CMacdonald View Post
pffft, highly regarded NCAA players are far from NHL players. AHL players that do well most of the time never make more than 4th liners.

Keep the kool-aid flowing Toronto.
Blake Wheeler

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04-10-2009, 05:08 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
That IS ridiculous. Gilroy is nothing special in terms of NHL potential.

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04-10-2009, 05:08 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by embracedbias View Post
Blake Wheeler
There's a big difference between the 5th overall pick and an UDFA.

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04-10-2009, 05:18 AM
  #59
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Personally I think they're good pick ups. You never know, some players who aren't expected to do very well sometimes show pretty good skill (Alexandre Burrows, Milan Lucic etc.)

But it looks like the Toronto Maple Leafs are going to be getting even more youthful in they're rebuilding, so I don't predict a very pretty season ahead. Burke's gonna have to land some superb veteran leadership to the line up or I dont see this team getting more than 25 wins next year.

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04-10-2009, 05:33 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gord Millers Chin View Post
The Maple Leafs have already signed 2 of the top 3 NCAA free agent prospects (Christian Hanson, Tyler Bozak). It is rumoured that Matt Gilroy and Jonas Gustavsson are on their radar and Toronto is listed as "one of two teams" in the running for both Gilroy and Gustavsson.

Has one NHL GM managed to sign four or five UFA prospects of this ilk in a span of a month or two before?

Hanson - Signed.
Bozak - Signed.

Gustavsson - Rumoured to go to either Toronto or Dallas. His coach with Farjestad has said that Toronto or Dallas would make the most sense for him, but Swedish reports have stated he may have narrowed it down to those two clubs. Toronto's goaltending coach Corey Hirsch has ties to Farjestad and has been aggressively pursuing Jonas. He just went 12-1 in the playoffs with something like a .960 Save%. Possibly as good as Henrik Lundqvist?

Gilroy - Rumoured to have narrowed his list down to two teams, Toronto is one. He may be the odds on favourite to win the Hobey Baker Trophy, clearly one of the best NCAA players. Though he's much older than most NCAA players, his skills are undeniable. Brian Burke has been pursuing him all season, even had dinner with Gilroy's family.

Slightly off topic, but Stalberg out of Vermont has already been drafted by Toronto, but he may come out of the NCAA and may have a good shot at making the Maple Leafs next season. He is supposedly a potentialy 2nd line forward, big Swedish forward that is said to be one of the fastest skaters in NCAA hockey.

Brian Burke has been an absolutely amazing GM so far.
What "Ilk" signing players that weren't good enough to be drafted, twice?

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04-10-2009, 05:35 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by leaflover View Post
I'm hoping for Gustavsson. Thats our most pressing longterm need and if Burke could shore that up for nothing but more pocket change it would be most beneficial.
Defense despite being a key position is currently our best stocked so Gilroy is less significant. It would still be a solid signing, just not as urgent an area.
The deeper and more talented the prospect pool the better. It pushes some to nerw heights and the weaker ones out the door.
Why? what happened to the greatness that was Justin Pogge? Leaf fans could not SHUT UP about him a few years ago

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04-10-2009, 05:42 AM
  #62
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I don't undestand what you get from overpaying for Gilroy, maybe someone can fill me in? Since there's such a massive bidding war for him right now, you'll have to make a significant dollar commitment to get him. If he's overpaid or playing at the market value of his salary, it defeats the whole purpose of signing young players, ie. getting production above their salary out of them.

Even if he develops well during those 2-3 years for which you signed him for, he's a UFA at the end of it and will get market value or more if he goes to UFA. If he busts, you're stuck with him anyway. The more this 'sweepstakes' goes on, the more he's turning into a medium risk, low reward move. The only way you win is if he comes out of the NCAA and becomes a world beater during those first 2-3 years, and even then it's not a monumental gain.

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04-10-2009, 07:31 AM
  #63
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I'm not sure what you mean by the thread title. Do you mean "Can Brian Burke sign 3 top college free agents?" Sure.

Do you mean "Can Brian Burke turn around the leafs?" I think so.

But honestly I don't think that the answer to the first question has anything to do with the answer to the 2nd question. If Burke turns the leafs around it's going to have very very very little with any of these college free agents. I won't be surprised if 1 of them becomes an average full time player, but I don't think any of them are going to be 1st liners or top 4 dmen.

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04-10-2009, 07:39 AM
  #64
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these College UFA signings have all just been depth building moves. nothing more nothing less. low risk for possible high rewards.

where Burke really has to make an impact is at the Drafts and major UFA signings and trades. these prospects help fill in a pretty empty talent pool, but are not something to build a teams future around. but you can never have too many prospects, so i'm happy and we'll see how they all pan out.

if they succeed hes a genius. if they don't no one thinks twice about it and they move on. its a no-lose situation really.

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04-10-2009, 09:06 AM
  #65
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Isn't Gilroy asking something like 3+ mil a year?? He hasn't proven anything in the NHL and he wants 3mil?? This isn't pre-lockout era anymore (aka the time you would have been drafted, but didn't!)

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04-10-2009, 09:31 AM
  #66
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[MOD:edit]

You said that no NCAA players came out of college and had an impact on the NHL. He never said that they'd have a similar impact, just that there was players who'd done it. [MOD:edit]

Anyways, as far as Gilroy goes, I think he would be overpaid if Burke signs him for 3 mil. No doubt about it. Still, I'd like to see him take a chance, the status quo clearly isn't working. Hanson's looked good so far this year, if a little bit raw, but there's some potential there. I'm looking forward to seeing Bozak play. And hey, it'd be great to get a goalie over to challenge Toskala, so it's good they're trying to sign Gustavsson. I have no complaints so far.


Last edited by Kristia: 04-10-2009 at 10:26 AM. Reason: removed quote and unneeded comments
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04-10-2009, 09:37 AM
  #67
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Burke is doing exactly what he's supposed to do. He has a very bad team with very little real assets and he's trying to rebuild it.

Signing college UFAs is the first step. Then he will jettison the dead weight (Kubina, Kaberle etc) for prospects/draft picks. After that he might sign couple of good players from the UFA market.

In the end he will have a young, hungry team and much more assets. Do this for 2-3 years and he might have a good young team with lots of assets and then he can start finetooling and add missing pieces from the deadline market.

Let's put it this way, what else can Burke really do? IMHO this is the only good way of building the team. JFJ and Fletcher tried to cheat and in the end they made the team only worse.

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04-10-2009, 09:45 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by embracedbias View Post
How is Bozak overpaid? If he plays good enough to reach his bonus' then he's worth the money! And if he doesn't turn out then he won't get the money (and therefore won't be overpaid). So I'm going to ask you again, how is Bozak overpaid?
Again.
I college ufa is taking up the team's cap space,as if he were the #1 pick of the draft and you don't see that as overpaying,tying up that much cap space in a college ufa?

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04-10-2009, 09:54 AM
  #69
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No, he won't be laughed at. People would (should) say "at least he tried". The fact that he's been able to lure top NCAA free agents is in no way shape or form a bad move - regardless of if they pan out or not. These are FREE players. The cap hit is a non-issue with the team currently (with the exception of Gilroy, of course). They are entry level contracts for **** sakes.
He's Brian Burke, he'll be laughed at regardless. Nobody is going to kiss his ass because he managed to be the highest bidder for a few UDFA's. If a competitive team had the cap space to offer such a deal, and the ability to guarantee ice-time, you can bet the Leafs wouldn't be in the running at all.

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04-10-2009, 09:56 AM
  #70
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Again.
I college ufa is taking up the team's cap space,as if he were the #1 pick of the draft and you don't see that as overpaying,tying up that much cap space in a college ufa?
That's only how it worked this year. Next year the bonus cushion is in effect, and teams are allowed to go over the cap in proportion to their entry level bonus numbers, with the option of applying any bonuses that put them over the cap at the end of the year to next years cap space. Not that this matters, because the Leafs will be well below the cap anyways, and its really, really, unlikely that anybody will hit all of their bonus numbers.

So long story short, you aren't tying up cap space with a rookie contract, apart from his base salary and any bonuses that he hits.

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04-10-2009, 10:23 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
That's only how it worked this year. Next year the bonus cushion is in effect, and teams are allowed to go over the cap in proportion to their entry level bonus numbers, with the option of applying any bonuses that put them over the cap at the end of the year to next years cap space. Not that this matters, because the Leafs will be well below the cap anyways, and its really, really, unlikely that anybody will hit all of their bonus numbers.

So long story short, you aren't tying up cap space with a rookie contract, apart from his base salary and any bonuses that he hits.
If anyone has a link from a credible source,saying other teams offered as much potential salary as Burke did,please post it.

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04-10-2009, 10:34 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
If anyone has a link from a credible source,saying other teams offered as much potential salary as Burke did,please post it.
If other teams did or did not. Who cares. Burke did because he could.

The bonus money is not guaranteed, there will be a bonus cushion again but the Leafs will not care because they do not plan to spend to the max anyways.

This is what cap space allows teams to do. They can work the system. This is what Burke did, he had cap space and he made it work for him.

It was a good savvy move by Burke. Offer a big bonus contenders did not want to match. Win the bidding war.

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04-10-2009, 10:44 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
If anyone has a link from a credible source,saying other teams offered as much potential salary as Burke did,please post it.
There won't be any story about what other teams were offering, because that info never leaks to the press. There were 25 teams bidding for his services though, and I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't all offer the rookie maximum. The 5 teams on his short-list certainly would have, at the very least. It all came down to ice-time and opportunity, which was something that Burke was able to offer that other teams weren't.

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04-10-2009, 11:11 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
There won't be any story about what other teams were offering, because that info never leaks to the press. There were 25 teams bidding for his services though, and I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't all offer the rookie maximum. The 5 teams on his short-list certainly would have, at the very least. It all came down to ice-time and opportunity, which was something that Burke was able to offer that other teams weren't.
The rookie max is about $875,000.The kid's contract has about $3m in bonuses.How many of those teams offered $3m in potential bonus money?

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04-10-2009, 11:11 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by The Fuhr View Post
If other teams did or did not. Who cares. Burke did because he could.

The bonus money is not guaranteed, there will be a bonus cushion again but the Leafs will not care because they do not plan to spend to the max anyways.

This is what cap space allows teams to do. They can work the system. This is what Burke did, he had cap space and he made it work for him.

It was a good savvy move by Burke. Offer a big bonus contenders did not want to match. Win the bidding war.
Once again.I don't have a problem with Burke throwing whatever amount he wants to at college ufas or nhl ufas.For the last time, I simply don't agree that being able to spend to the cap ceiling,having cap space and wildly outbidding other teams somehow makes Burke an amazing or genuis.

and that was the OP's line..isn't Burke amazing?Why because he outbid other teams?

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