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The 17th Pick

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Old
05-12-2009, 10:12 AM
  #51
stlweir
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The draft is slowly creeping up and it appears that there will be some talented players available when the Blues pick in the first round. There should be a lot of action on draft day. Can Jarmo keep the talent pipeline stocked?

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05-12-2009, 12:20 PM
  #52
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Does anyone know what are draft position should be? Or do we have to wait till the end of playoffs for it to be finalized? The only playoff team that should be ahead of us is CBJ right? They are the only team that didn't advance with less points than us. The non playoff teams order ends with the Panthers at 14, then CBJ at 15 and the Blues at 16. All east teams had more points and ANA advanced.

Is this right?

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05-12-2009, 01:17 PM
  #53
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I don't think playoff result matters, just final regular season points. Maybe there is a special provision for the Cup champ to go last.

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05-12-2009, 04:29 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Dangles View Post
Does anyone know what are draft position should be? Or do we have to wait till the end of playoffs for it to be finalized? The only playoff team that should be ahead of us is CBJ right? They are the only team that didn't advance with less points than us. The non playoff teams order ends with the Panthers at 14, then CBJ at 15 and the Blues at 16. All east teams had more points and ANA advanced.

Is this right?
If Anaheim beats Detroit twice in a row and wins the series in 7 games, then the Blues will have the 16th pick. Otherwise 17th.

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05-13-2009, 12:19 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
If Anaheim beats Detroit twice in a row and wins the series in 7 games, then the Blues will have the 16th pick. Otherwise 17th.
I don't understand I guess. But whatever I want Detroit to lose of course. Anahiem just needs to win in Detroit now.

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05-13-2009, 02:45 AM
  #56
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05-13-2009, 02:59 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
There are so many good players in the top two rounds I currently favor trading the 16th/17th for the Isles' 26 and 31.
I'd do that in a second. I think the Blues could probably still nab Drew Shore with the 26th pick, and an extra second-rounder woul be nice.

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05-13-2009, 03:36 PM
  #58
Randall Ritchey
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I'd do that in a second. I think the Blues could probably still nab Drew Shore with the 26th pick, and an extra second-rounder woul be nice.

P_B
As much as I'd likely cream myself if we did that and Shore WAS available at 26th, I just doubt he'd be there. He'll go top 20 IMO.

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05-13-2009, 04:04 PM
  #59
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I dont think Shore would be there much after 20 but if we did trade up, I could see both Morin and Klingberg still on the table, Tatar in the second would be nice as well. I still would like to trade up our 17and 47 for like a top ten pick and get some top end talent.

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05-13-2009, 09:40 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by schronote View Post
I dont think Shore would be there much after 20 but if we did trade up, I could see both Morin and Klingberg still on the table, Tatar in the second would be nice as well. I still would like to trade up our 17and 47 for like a top ten pick and get some top end talent.
I doubt that the 17 and 47 would get a top ten pick from anyone; the Blues would have to throw in a young player too, and that ain't happening...

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05-14-2009, 12:14 AM
  #61
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The Blues might be able to move up a few spots but to get into the top 10, it would likely require a massive overpayment.

As for Shore, I wouldn't be surprised if he's still around in the mid-20's. You never know though as there are always a ton of surprises in every draft.

One guy I sure wouldn't mind if the Blues drafted is Calvin de Haan. I've been impressed with his play all season. He's got top notch hockey sense and put up nearly a point per game as a defenseman on a wretched Oshawa team in his first season in the OHL. I started watching a lot of Oshawa games this season to check out Tavares but there would always be this defenseman who kept making me say "who was that?" and every time, it was de Haan.

Another guy I'm intrigued by is Chris Kreider. Out of all of the top guys in this draft, Kreider is the only one I haven't seen at least once in person or at least on tv...the reason being, he plays prep HS hockey for Andover Academy in Massachusetts. He's a big kid who has absolutely torched the prep league and is said to have blinding speed. Of course, the big question on him is that it's so hard to evaluate him given his level of competition. It takes some gusto to use a high pick on a kid playing HS hockey but the Blues did it just a few years ago drafting Oshie out of Warroad HS in Minn. Could they do it again?

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05-14-2009, 12:32 AM
  #62
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What would it take to move up to get Colorado's top 3 pick? ISS top 30 has Hedman at 3rd.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/feature/?id=11679

1.John Tavares
2.Matt Duchene
3.Victor Hedman

Our 1st overall (17th) + Patrick Berglund. I would do it if it could land us one of those 3 players most likely Matt Duchene.

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05-14-2009, 01:48 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by TerminatorBlue View Post
What would it take to move up to get Colorado's top 3 pick? ISS top 30 has Hedman at 3rd.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/feature/?id=11679

1.John Tavares
2.Matt Duchene
3.Victor Hedman

Our 1st overall (17th) + Patrick Berglund. I would do it if it could land us one of those 3 players most likely Matt Duchene.
IMO the trade doesn't make sense for either side. Berglund is part of the core young group here, he's had an pretty good rookie season and is only going to get better. Duchene is projected to be very good, but he's still untested in the NHL. I also don't feel like Colorado would want to drop that much without something else in the mix, as good as Berglund is.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that in terms of pure value it's probably underpayment to get the 3rd pick, and wouldn't generate much interest on either side.

I'm not a big fan of the "hey let's trade a very good rookie/sophomore for this untested draft pick that may end up better" idea. Sounds like the start of a vicious yearly cycle, there is almost always that "projected to be better" player. Duchene could become a NHL star, but he might also never make the NHL, there's no way of knowing. Berglund's coming off a pretty good season, the Blues have a guaranteed thing, a young player who's very good and can play in the NHL for sure (barring unforseen circumstances such as injury).

edit: forgot to mention I am very sure Duchene will be 3rd. He's very good and had a strong playoff run but I feel like people still see him as a slight step below Tavares/Hedman.

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05-14-2009, 01:55 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Cheli View Post
IMO the trade doesn't make sense for either side. Berglund is part of the core young group here, he's had an pretty good rookie season and is only going to get better. Duchene is projected to be very good, but he's still untested in the NHL. I also don't feel like Colorado would want to drop that much without something else in the mix, as good as Berglund is.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that in terms of pure value it's probably underpayment to get the 3rd pick, and wouldn't generate much interest on either side.

I'm not a big fan of the "hey let's trade a very good rookie/sophomore for this untested draft pick that may end up better" idea. Sounds like the start of a vicious yearly cycle, there is almost always that "projected to be better" player. Duchene could become a NHL star, but he might also never make the NHL, there's no way of knowing. Berglund's coming off a pretty good season, the Blues have a guaranteed thing, a young player who's very good and can play in the NHL for sure (barring unforseen circumstances such as injury).
Agreed. We have lots of talent, but there's no sense in staying young forever. JK will unearth more gems for the Blues.

I vote no on this trade.

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05-14-2009, 04:24 AM
  #65
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05-14-2009, 09:28 AM
  #66
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^^^^^

To the point about our young forwards being more "playmakers" than "finishers," I've been worried a bit about that too. Which is why I ask the community here: what about Jeremy Morin?

I had read (on the Prospects board, I believe) that he's one of the "next tier" of pure goal-scorers in this draft behind Tavares. It appears, based on recent rankings, that he'll certainly be there at 17...maybe even later in the first or early second if we trade down as was suggested upthread.

This would be drafting for "need" instead of "BPA" probably...but this does seem like a critical need over the next few years. Thoughts? Is the consensus opinion of Morin similar to what I described above? Is he a Jarmo-type guy?

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05-14-2009, 10:05 AM
  #67
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I'm a little concerned about the Blues size and toughness up front:

Perron, McDonald, Kariya, Boyes, Palushaj, Eller

All of these guys are on the smaller side. I think Eller is tall enough and should fill out as he matures as should Berglund.

That only leaves Backes and Oshie as guys in the top 6 that play physical. Backes is the only one out of any of these guys that I could see dropping the gloves. Crombeen is valuable because he can play on a shut down line and an hold his own in a scrap. If the Blues don't have some toughness in their lineup the young guys are going to be pushed around a lot.

As far as scoring goes, I think Perron will become a much better finisher than he was last year. I also think Berglund has already proven that he can be a scorer at the NHL Level. He has a very underated shot. If the Blues have EJ, Boyes and Berglund on the top PP next year they will have 3 guys that can really blast the puck. This will keep teams from cheating to deny the shot from Boyes. I would like to see the top PP next year be:

Boyes - Backes - Berglund
EJ - Carlo

Then the 2nd PP unit could be:

McDonald - Tkachuk/Eller - Oshie
Petro - kariya

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Old
05-14-2009, 10:31 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by mmitchell19 View Post
^^^^^

To the point about our young forwards being more "playmakers" than "finishers," I've been worried a bit about that too. Which is why I ask the community here: what about Jeremy Morin?

I had read (on the Prospects board, I believe) that he's one of the "next tier" of pure goal-scorers in this draft behind Tavares. It appears, based on recent rankings, that he'll certainly be there at 17...maybe even later in the first or early second if we trade down as was suggested upthread.

This would be drafting for "need" instead of "BPA" probably...but this does seem like a critical need over the next few years. Thoughts? Is the consensus opinion of Morin similar to what I described above? Is he a Jarmo-type guy?
I like Morin, but it seems like were just getting more of what we already have, I want some size/skill.

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05-14-2009, 10:39 AM
  #69
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http://www.grossmisconduct.ca/2009/0...-2009-nhl.html
http://www.grossmisconduct.ca/2009/0...layers-to.html
Talks about Caron and Klingberg, two guys I have only seen once but looked like they had the abilities to be top 6 forwards in the NHL.

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05-14-2009, 10:47 AM
  #70
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While I would absolutely love to get Duchene, I don't see much of anything being able to pry that 3rd overall pick away from Colorado. Duchene is oftentimes compared to Yzerman but I see more Sakic in him. As Sakic retires, the Avs draft his replacement. It's true that you never know how these kids are going to turn out but Duchene IMO is one of the safer picks in this draft and I think he's going to be a real good one for many many years.

As for Morin, he's hard to get a read on as there's not much out there on the NTDP players. Here's what TSN had to say about him:
Quote:
Much more was expected of Jeremy Morin but that hardly puts him in a minority on a U.S. under-18 team that has been in turmoil.
Morin is a pure shooter who might have better instincts around the net than any other player in this draft.
Getting there? Well that's another issue. His skating needs to improve.
"But he's a better skater with that puck than without it," a scout says.
Morin was suspended during the Five Nations Tournament in February, leaving a rink full of scouts wondering about his character. And he hasn't had an outstanding year on the ice either.
"Enigma," one scout said in describing Morin. "Probably the best pure shooter in the draft but you're trying to find out 'What happened there?' There's enough grey area that you're going to have to do extra homework before you draft him. After being recruited by Boston University and North Dakota, Morin will join Kitchner (OHL) next season.
In other words, it sounds like he's a talented kid who showed some inconsistency and needs to improve his skating while at the same time, he got kicked out of the NTDP for unknown reasons. His interviews at the combine should be interesting to say the least. Kyle Palmieri also got kicked off of the U-18 team as did a few other kids. As long as this kid can convince teams he has good character and him getting suspeneded from the U-18 team was a fluke, he'll likely be a 1st rd pick but I'd still consider him a reach at 17th overall.

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05-14-2009, 10:50 AM
  #71
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It seems like a trend that kids get in trouble and try and do whatever it takes to get out of the USNDP. Wonder why that is, either way these kids are still young and could easily mature into great players. It is easy to be a hot head when your as good as these kids as young as they are.

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05-14-2009, 11:35 AM
  #72
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It seems like a trend that kids get in trouble and try and do whatever it takes to get out of the USNDP. Wonder why that is, either way these kids are still young and could easily mature into great players. It is easy to be a hot head when your as good as these kids as young as they are.
Yeah, it all depends on what it is. If it's character flaws like Kyle Beach, then I say stay away. If it's something that falls under the category of "boys will be boys," then it's probably not that big of a deal. I hear a lot of the problems at the NTDP this year revolved around underage drinking (oh no!) and players wanting to leave to play in the CHL because they weren't satsified with the icetime they were getting (I heard that about the u-17 goalie, not any of the forwards that will be drafted next month). I don't specifically remember what Morin or Palmeiri did to get kicked off so if anyone else has any insight, please share.

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05-14-2009, 06:56 PM
  #73
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I would love to see the Blues draft a forward with some serious speed and quickness. Andy Mac is the only guy that really puts fear into opposing Dman with his speed. We need a few more burners at forward.

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05-14-2009, 08:03 PM
  #74
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For those with NHLN, memorial cup starts tomorrow and looks like almost every game will be televised so if you want to see guys like Kulikov, Caron, 2010 top 5 pick taylor hall, ryan ellis, and a whole lot of high end junior talent check it out, should be a fun tourney to watch. As for speed, I would like to nab some speed with our second round pick, I would really like either Tatar or Morin for future PP specialists, and Tatar can flat out fly. Landon Ferraro has good speed, I like Duchene as a skater, I would say he is the best skater in this draft.

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05-15-2009, 08:50 PM
  #75
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We need a number #1 center.Berglund is a pretty good player but doesn't really impress me,I know he is one of our own but I don't see him becoming a franchise center man.KT probably isn't coming back and is close to retirement.

I say we keep E.J,Pieterangelo,Oshie,Perron, Backes,Andy Mac at all cost.Everyone else should be trade bait to get Tavares or Duchene and yes even Boyes a -20 guy who is a defensive liability.

I know i will get hated for saying that but it's my opinion.

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