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The 17th Pick

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Old
05-16-2009, 12:19 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by TerminatorBlue View Post
We need a number #1 center.Berglund is a pretty good player but doesn't really impress me,I know he is one of our own but I don't see him becoming a franchise center man.KT probably isn't coming back and is close to retirement.

I say we keep E.J,Pieterangelo,Oshie,Perron, Backes,Andy Mac at all cost.Everyone else should be trade bait to get Tavares or Duchene and yes even Boyes a -20 guy who is a defensive liability.

I know i will get hated for saying that but it's my opinion.
While I would absolutely love to get either Tavares or Duchene, it would simply cost too much to trade up and would likely cost a good chunk of the players you have listed in your "keep" list.

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05-16-2009, 03:56 AM
  #77
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Brad Boyes,Patrick Berglund + our 1st = John Tavares

Kariya - Mcdonald - Backes
Perron - Tavares - Oshie

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05-16-2009, 04:58 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by TerminatorBlue View Post
Brad Boyes,Patrick Berglund + our 1st = John Tavares

Kariya - Mcdonald - Backes
Perron - Tavares - Oshie
OR package Boyes, Berglund, our 1st for a gaurented Center. That kind of a package for a rookie....no thanks. I would rather try to come up with a package and trade up for Duchene.

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05-16-2009, 07:26 AM
  #79
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OR package Boyes, Berglund, our 1st for a gaurented Center. That kind of a package for a rookie....no thanks. I would rather try to come up with a package and trade up for Duchene.
I hate to tell ya but that is the kind of package you will need to get Duchene.

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05-16-2009, 09:46 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by TerminatorBlue View Post
Brad Boyes, Patrick Berglund + our 1st = John Tavares
Hmmm... no.

You don't trade a solid prospect (whom you, and others, seem to have given up on way too early), a proven 30-40 goal scorer, and a draft pick for a different draft pick.

I can appreciate the need for a legitimate #1 center, but I'm not willing to trade a guy who still has plenty of time and potential to develop into that #1 center, for a guy who is a couple of years behind on the development curve.

"Patrick" Berglund has played -- and excelled -- against men for the last two years while Tavares has been racking up big numbers against 17-year-olds.

I'll keep Berglund, thanks.

When the 17th pick rolls around, the Blues should still have at least five or six of these eight centers left on the board to choose from, any of whom have the potential to develop into a solid #1 center:

RK .. PLAYER ............. 2008-09 CLUB ........... P S HT . WGT BORN ... GP GL-AS-PT PM
== == ==================== ======================== = = ==== === ======== == ======== ==
14 NA KREIDER, CHRIS ..... PHILIPS ANDOVER ACAD ... C L 6-02 201 04-30-91 26 33-23-56 10
15 NA KADRI, NAZEM ....... LONDON OHL ............. C L 6-00 177 10-06-90 56 25-53-78 31
18 NA FERRARO, LANDON .... RED DEER WHL ........... C R 6-00 170 08-08-91 68 37-18-55 99
19 NA HOLLAND, PETER ..... GUELPH OHL ............. C L 6-02 190 01-14-91 68 28-39-67 42
28 NA SHORE, DREW ........ USA U-18 USDP .......... C R 6-02 198 01-21-91 53 14-23-37 38
03 EU JOSEFSON, JACOB .... DJURGARDEN SWE ......... C L 6-00 187 03-02-91 50 05-11-16 14
08 EU JOHANSSON, MARCUS .. FARJESTAD SWE .......... C L 5-11 181 10-06-90 45 05-05-10 10
10 EU NÄTTINEN, JOONAS ... ESPOO BLUES FIN JR...... C R 6-02 176 01-03-91 30 09-29-38 06


Jacob Josefson and Marcus Johansson have the added benefit of having played a full season against men in the SEL, like Berglund before them.

Johansson's Färjestads BK club won the SEL championship, and while Johansson did take a back seat to some of the veterans in the playoffs (6 GP, 0-0-0, 0 PIM, minus-1), he still had a decent rookie year as an 18-year-old, with a plus-4, a shorthanded goal, and a game-winner among his accomplishments.

Shore's my personal favorite, because his scouting reports note that he has high-level hockey sense and work ethic, plus he's an American forward, which the Blues have shown a tendency to prefer in recent first-round picks. Johansson's right behind Shore on my personal list, but I wouldn't complain about any one of those guys being taken at 17th overall...

P_B


Last edited by Prussian_Blue: 05-16-2009 at 10:23 AM.
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05-16-2009, 12:23 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post

Shore's my personal favorite, because his scouting reports note that he has high-level hockey sense and work ethic, plus he's an American forward, which the Blues have shown a tendency to prefer in recent first-round picks. Johansson's right behind Shore on my personal list, but I wouldn't complain about any one of those guys being taken at 17th overall...

P_B
I agree on this. Shore is the top guy I would want the Blues to draft. But if he's available, Jacob Josefson is behind him. I wouldn't mind the Blues leaving the draft for either of those two.

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05-16-2009, 12:31 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Oshniak View Post
I agree on this. Shore is the top guy I would want the Blues to draft. But if he's available, Jacob Josefson is behind him. I wouldn't mind the Blues leaving the draft for either of those two.
Dont get me wrong, I like Shore, but have only seen him play once this year early on in the season and I didnt get to see much of what he can do. What is it about his playing style that you guys like so much about to put him ahead of Josefson, Caron(who made a few nice moves last night in their loss to Kelowna), and a few other guys who will still be on the board, what makes drew shore the keeper, thanks?

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05-16-2009, 12:46 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
Jacob Josefson and Marcus Johansson have the added benefit of having played a full season against men in the SEL, like Berglund before them.


P_B
Berglund stayed in The Alsvenskan, and didn't play a year in The SEL (a fact I know you are aware of). But, your point still carries some weight, as he played against men in The Alsvenskan (albeit a lower calibre, overall, than The SEL (but, certainly much higher than Canadian juniors).

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05-16-2009, 02:11 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post

When the 17th pick rolls around, the Blues should still have at least five or six of these eight centers left on the board to choose from, any of whom have the potential to develop into a solid #1 center:

RK .. PLAYER ............. 2008-09 CLUB ........... P S HT . WGT BORN ... GP GL-AS-PT PM
== == ==================== ======================== = = ==== === ======== == ======== ==
14 NA KREIDER, CHRIS ..... PHILIPS ANDOVER ACAD ... C L 6-02 201 04-30-91 26 33-23-56 10
15 NA KADRI, NAZEM ....... LONDON OHL ............. C L 6-00 177 10-06-90 56 25-53-78 31
18 NA FERRARO, LANDON .... RED DEER WHL ........... C R 6-00 170 08-08-91 68 37-18-55 99
19 NA HOLLAND, PETER ..... GUELPH OHL ............. C L 6-02 190 01-14-91 68 28-39-67 42
28 NA SHORE, DREW ........ USA U-18 USDP .......... C R 6-02 198 01-21-91 53 14-23-37 38
03 EU JOSEFSON, JACOB .... DJURGARDEN SWE ......... C L 6-00 187 03-02-91 50 05-11-16 14
08 EU JOHANSSON, MARCUS .. FARJESTAD SWE .......... C L 5-11 181 10-06-90 45 05-05-10 10
10 EU NÄTTINEN, JOONAS ... ESPOO BLUES FIN JR...... C R 6-02 176 01-03-91 30 09-29-38 06


P_B

Can someone give/get scouting reports on these guys and other players falling in the 17th pick range? I haven't had time to invest in this years draft unfortunately and I would love to know more about these picks.

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05-16-2009, 02:43 PM
  #85
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Chris Kreider could have gone to the Ushl but opted to stay with his high school, he absolutely dominated both ends of the rink this year. His ability to reach top speed quickly and creativity with the puck helped him seperate himself from the league. The lower competition does ake it harder to judge his game, though, could be a steal and his coaches noted how fast his body is maturing. Nazem Kadri had a good year with London after a good year with the Kitchener Rangers, he has a lot of skill and seems to be a clutch player. Has good hands decent speed and a nice release, he isnt very big but his competitiveness has allowed him to excel so far. Landon Ferrero I have watched play since he was 13, above average speed and shot, he was expected to put slightly better numbers this year in the dub and the wju18. Next year is a big year for him, but I see top six potential in him, he just might take a long route. I dont know as much about the euro prospects.

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05-16-2009, 04:09 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by schronote View Post
Chris Kreider could have gone to the Ushl but opted to stay with his high school, he absolutely dominated both ends of the rink this year. His ability to reach top speed quickly and creativity with the puck helped him seperate himself from the league. The lower competition does ake it harder to judge his game, though, could be a steal and his coaches noted how fast his body is maturing. Nazem Kadri had a good year with London after a good year with the Kitchener Rangers, he has a lot of skill and seems to be a clutch player. Has good hands decent speed and a nice release, he isnt very big but his competitiveness has allowed him to excel so far. Landon Ferrero I have watched play since he was 13, above average speed and shot, he was expected to put slightly better numbers this year in the dub and the wju18. Next year is a big year for him, but I see top six potential in him, he just might take a long route. I dont know as much about the euro prospects.
Thanks for that synopsis!

As a side note, I am watching the CHL playoffs and Caron looks really good today. Big, strong and tenacious. Seems a little slow though.


Last edited by Celtic Note: 05-16-2009 at 04:16 PM.
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05-16-2009, 05:14 PM
  #87
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Im watching the Windsor Drummondville Memorial Cup game and am trying to watch Ryan Ellis and D. Kulikov as close as I can, so far Ellis looks like a stud, great outlet passes, unreal shot on the PP(NHL calibre release on the slap shot), is just really small looking out there but in a few years give him 15 or so pounds, I think he would be a great dman. Kulikov looks like he is forcing everything, big solid looking guy, really raw skating but is working really hard, looks like he will need another year in my mind(people think he is nhl ready). On a side not, Taylor Hall is unreal. He would be top 5 this year in draft if he was eligible.

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05-16-2009, 05:15 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
Hmmm... no.

You don't trade a solid prospect (whom you, and others, seem to have given up on way too early), a proven 30-40 goal scorer, and a draft pick for a different draft pick.

I can appreciate the need for a legitimate #1 center, but I'm not willing to trade a guy who still has plenty of time and potential to develop into that #1 center, for a guy who is a couple of years behind on the development curve.

"Patrick" Berglund has played -- and excelled -- against men for the last two years while Tavares has been racking up big numbers against 17-year-olds.

I'll keep Berglund, thanks.

When the 17th pick rolls around, the Blues should still have at least five or six of these eight centers left on the board to choose from, any of whom have the potential to develop into a solid #1 center:

RK .. PLAYER ............. 2008-09 CLUB ........... P S HT . WGT BORN ... GP GL-AS-PT PM
== == ==================== ======================== = = ==== === ======== == ======== ==
14 NA KREIDER, CHRIS ..... PHILIPS ANDOVER ACAD ... C L 6-02 201 04-30-91 26 33-23-56 10
15 NA KADRI, NAZEM ....... LONDON OHL ............. C L 6-00 177 10-06-90 56 25-53-78 31
18 NA FERRARO, LANDON .... RED DEER WHL ........... C R 6-00 170 08-08-91 68 37-18-55 99
19 NA HOLLAND, PETER ..... GUELPH OHL ............. C L 6-02 190 01-14-91 68 28-39-67 42
28 NA SHORE, DREW ........ USA U-18 USDP .......... C R 6-02 198 01-21-91 53 14-23-37 38
03 EU JOSEFSON, JACOB .... DJURGARDEN SWE ......... C L 6-00 187 03-02-91 50 05-11-16 14
08 EU JOHANSSON, MARCUS .. FARJESTAD SWE .......... C L 5-11 181 10-06-90 45 05-05-10 10
10 EU NÄTTINEN, JOONAS ... ESPOO BLUES FIN JR...... C R 6-02 176 01-03-91 30 09-29-38 06


Jacob Josefson and Marcus Johansson have the added benefit of having played a full season against men in the SEL, like Berglund before them.

Johansson's Färjestads BK club won the SEL championship, and while Johansson did take a back seat to some of the veterans in the playoffs (6 GP, 0-0-0, 0 PIM, minus-1), he still had a decent rookie year as an 18-year-old, with a plus-4, a shorthanded goal, and a game-winner among his accomplishments.

Shore's my personal favorite, because his scouting reports note that he has high-level hockey sense and work ethic, plus he's an American forward, which the Blues have shown a tendency to prefer in recent first-round picks. Johansson's right behind Shore on my personal list, but I wouldn't complain about any one of those guys being taken at 17th overall...

P_B
I haven't given up on Berglund.I merely stated reality that he won't become a franchise player.Yes I admit it is a risky move trading for another Draft pick but when you think of Tavares potential compared to Berglund well then you have to give the nod to Tavares.

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05-16-2009, 05:18 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by TerminatorBlue View Post
I haven't given up on Berglund.I merely stated reality that he won't become a franchise player.Yes I admit it is a risky move trading for another Draft pick but when you think of Tavares potential compared to Berglund well then you have to give the nod to Tavares.
Everyone has to agree based on WJC stats and draft ranking Tavares has more potential. Having said that I personally would not trade them straight up, I want to be a deep talented team. Berglunds future salary will be half of tavares for most of their careers. I would rather have 2 guys worth 3.5 or 4 million like berg oshie than one 7 mil guy like the so called "future" superstar. Plus I like Berglund better because he is a blue and jt isnt.

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05-16-2009, 05:41 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by TerminatorBlue View Post
I haven't given up on Berglund.I merely stated reality that he won't become a franchise player.Yes I admit it is a risky move trading for another Draft pick but when you think of Tavares potential compared to Berglund well then you have to give the nod to Tavares.
"Potential" is a very big word...

Hey, don't get me wrong... I'd do friggin' backflips if the Blues somehow managed to swing Tavares out of this draft. But I just can't see them trading that kind of a package for him.

And Robb, thanks for having caught my slip-up re: Berglund and playing in the Allsvenskan rather than the SEL. Berglund does, however, have one thing that neither Johansson nor Josefson -- nor even Tavares -- have.

A year's experience in the National Hockey League.

And to the poster who noted that they'd put Josefson behind Shore, rather than Johansson... yeah, so would I, but I doubt very seriously that Josefson falls to #17. If he does -- and that's about as likely to happen as me having a threeway with Tina Fey and Amy Poehler -- I'd take him ahead of Shore, I think...

P_B

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05-16-2009, 05:48 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by schronote View Post
Im watching the Windsor Drummondville Memorial Cup game and am trying to watch Ryan Ellis and D. Kulikov as close as I can, so far Ellis looks like a stud, great outlet passes, unreal shot on the PP(NHL calibre release on the slap shot), is just really small looking out there but in a few years give him 15 or so pounds, I think he would be a great dman. Kulikov looks like he is forcing everything, big solid looking guy, really raw skating but is working really hard, looks like he will need another year in my mind(people think he is nhl ready). On a side not, Taylor Hall is unreal. He would be top 5 this year in draft if he was eligible.
Have you noticed Mark Cundari (#51 for Windsor) at all?

P_B

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05-16-2009, 06:23 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by schronote View Post
Im watching the Windsor Drummondville Memorial Cup game and am trying to watch Ryan Ellis and D. Kulikov as close as I can, so far Ellis looks like a stud, great outlet passes, unreal shot on the PP(NHL calibre release on the slap shot), is just really small looking out there but in a few years give him 15 or so pounds, I think he would be a great dman. Kulikov looks like he is forcing everything, big solid looking guy, really raw skating but is working really hard, looks like he will need another year in my mind(people think he is nhl ready). On a side not, Taylor Hall is unreal. He would be top 5 this year in draft if he was eligible.
He has the tools, but his shot selection and individual style of play leave a lot to be desired for someone so highly touted. Granted he is 17 years old.....so......

Kulikov, where he might be trying to force things, looks great. He has been all over the ice and has so many takeaways.


Last edited by Celtic Note: 05-16-2009 at 06:29 PM.
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05-16-2009, 06:35 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
"Potential" is a very big word...

Hey, don't get me wrong... I'd do friggin' backflips if the Blues somehow managed to swing Tavares out of this draft. But I just can't see them trading that kind of a package for him.

And Robb, thanks for having caught my slip-up re: Berglund and playing in the Allsvenskan rather than the SEL. Berglund does, however, have one thing that neither Johansson nor Josefson -- nor even Tavares -- have.

A year's experience in the National Hockey League.

And to the poster who noted that they'd put Josefson behind Shore, rather than Johansson... yeah, so would I, but I doubt very seriously that Josefson falls to #17. If he does -- and that's about as likely to happen as me having a threeway with Tina Fey and Amy Poehler -- I'd take him ahead of Shore, I think...

P_B
A thing to keep in mind is that Berglund's rookie performance is not far off of what another large center drafted later in the first round somewhat recently Ryan Getzlaf. Now Getzlaf has more agressiveness in his game than Berglund does but point total and point potentials are really not far off of base. For those of you questioning Berglund remember the 30ish game stretch he had where he was playing flat out dominant at times. Now consider the difference in intensity between Allvesnskan and that Berglund doubled the schedule he was used to in a league that is far more intense and he handled the transition fairly well in my eyes. It may take him another season or two to fully get into the NA swing of things but this kid is going to be a #1 center.

I agree on Josefson from what I read he sounds like a mix between Berglund and Eller and I could see him fitting extremely well on this team. I would not mind seeing him in the system one bit. In fact once we fell out of the lottery category Josefson was the main guy I wanted.

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05-16-2009, 06:43 PM
  #94
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Have you noticed Mark Cundari (#51 for Windsor) at all?

P_B
Made a few good plays, but not really noticeable.

Announcers say he has played solid today.


Paired up with Ellis on the top unit, also top unit on the PK.

Really picked it up in the third! Just shot the puck to the net and hit player deflected it in for the lead.


Last edited by Celtic Note: 05-16-2009 at 07:03 PM.
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05-16-2009, 06:47 PM
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I haven't given up on Berglund.I merely stated reality that he won't become a franchise player.Yes I admit it is a risky move trading for another Draft pick but when you think of Tavares potential compared to Berglund well then you have to give the nod to Tavares.
Berglund is right behind EJ in the untouchable department. To rule him out of becoming a franchise player at this point is ridiculous. The guy is a 6-4 centerman with 21goals and 47pts in his first year of North American hockey. I guarantee he would probably be the first player that any GM in the league would want from the Blue's forward group.

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05-16-2009, 07:20 PM
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Can someone give/get scouting reports on these guys and other players falling in the 17th pick range? I haven't had time to invest in this years draft unfortunately and I would love to know more about these picks.
Out of the guys who will likely be available when the Blues draft at 17, the 3 guys I'm currently high on are Chris Kreider, Calvin de Haan and John Moore. Kreider's one of the few top prospects this year that I haven't seen play (it's kind of hard to catch NE prep HS games) but based on the scouting reports, he sounds like he could definitely be a steal. de Haan is a guy I really liked whenever I would watch Oshawa. He's smooth on his skates, has very good hockey sense and always seems to make very nice outlet passes. Another d-man who I think has a ton of potential is John Moore. Perhaps he just looked faster than some others since every time I saw him it was in person while a lot of the others were on tv but holy ***** is he fast! Not just fast, but a very good skater all-around while also having good hockey sense, etc. A lot of these guys are currently ranked by "the consensus" to be available in the 20's, I could see all 3 already gone by the time the Blues pick comes around. I like Josefson but would be shocked if he was still available at 17. I like power forward types like Kassian, Ashton and Holland but there are others I currently like better who I think will still be available at 17.

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05-16-2009, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by TerminatorBlue View Post
I haven't given up on Berglund.I merely stated reality that he won't become a franchise player.Yes I admit it is a risky move trading for another Draft pick but when you think of Tavares potential compared to Berglund well then you have to give the nod to Tavares.
What is your definition of franchise player?

Most people say that a franchise player is one you can build around or something stupidly vague like that. I'd like some kind of hard definition so I can understand what exactly it is you don't think Berglund will become.

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05-16-2009, 10:17 PM
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If you look back on the season, Jeremy Morin put up way better numbers than Shore but read in other posts that Shore is more complete. When it come down to it who orward in this draft that will be around the 17 spot will most fit in with our team in two years.
Boyes-Mac-Oshie
Eller-Berg-Perron
09draft-Backes-palushaj
Obviously that is a rough idea of what we will look like for the first 3 lines but I say we do in fact need a shooter, someone who will potentially score 30+goals consistently throughout their prime. Glennie, Josefson, and Morin could be those guys. Toni Rajala is also a huge question mark, he could pan out to be an offensive dynamo. He really improved throughout the year and capped it off with a great wju18. If he has better pro season next year and does well at the wj I could see him playing in the show in 2 or 3 years. Thoughts?

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05-16-2009, 10:17 PM
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What is your definition of franchise player?

Most people say that a franchise player is one you can build around or something stupidly vague like that. I'd like some kind of hard definition so I can understand what exactly it is you don't think Berglund will become.
Sure no problem, here are some examples Sidney Crosby,Alex Ovechkin,Joe Thornton,Vinnie Lecavalier,Iginila,Patrick Kane, Eric Staal,Getzlaf ...a player who is going to take charge and lead our team into the playoffs.

What I think Berglund will become,probably not much more than a second liner.I'm not bashing Berglund so don't try and turn this around and imply I'm turning this into a Berglund hate thread...all I said was if we have the chance to bring in a guy like Tavares and Berglund is a casualty of that then "I" would do it.

I suppose I'm a bad Blues fan now because I suggested we make a trade?

Let me ask you what do you think Berglund will become?

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05-16-2009, 10:20 PM
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schronote
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Originally Posted by TerminatorBlue View Post
Sure no problem, here are some examples Sidney Crosby,Alex Ovechkin,Joe Thornton,Vinnie Lecavalier,Iginila,Patrick Kane, Eric Staal,Getzlaf ...a player who is going to take charge and lead our team into the playoffs.

What I think Berglund will become,probably not much more than a second liner.I'm not bashing Berglund so don't try and turn this around and imply I'm turning this into a Berglund hate thread...all I said was if we have the chance to bring in a guy like Tavares and Berglund is a casualty of that then "I" would do it.

I suppose I'm a bad Blues fan now because I suggested we make a trade?

Let me ask you what do you think Berglund will become?
Were slightly getting off topic here, there are berglund threads. But I personally see berglund becoming around a ppg number 1 center for our team, not an allstar but someone who puts up 70 points and plays against the best.

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