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Who competes and who sacrifices? I'm watching.

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Old
04-16-2009, 04:25 PM
  #1
Catch-22
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Who competes and who sacrifices? I'm watching.

Inspiration and optimism haven't been easy to come by watching the Habs this year. I am not expecting that to change much in round 1 against Boston. What has bothered me more than anything else about our team this year, though, is the way they - or some of the players - have failed to compete and simply accepted defeat or rolled over in the face of adversity. These players I call "losers", as in, not winners and I think that a playoff series, where everything counts, against a superior opponent is a good opportunity to figure out who's who. Working on the premises that you can't win with losers; that you need winners in order to win; and that we have a lot of UFAs to consider, I am going to be watching very closely to see who competes and who doesn't. UFA players who do not compete should not be re signed. All others should be traded or relegated to more minor roles come next season. The remaining holes should be filled with players who care.

Competing does not just mean scoring points. Competing means sacrifice. It means doing what it takes to win. It means blocking shots, taking a hit to get the puck out, to maintain or achieve possession, finishing hits, skating hard, playing through pain, winning the battles, earning your space, standing up for your teammates, never backing down and contributing in your expected capacity. In short, IT MEANS HATING TO LOSE!!! I repeat, players who fail to meet this requirement, this expectation, this standard, should be cast out.

I can accept losing to a superior opponent. That is a management issue. But I will not accept players backing down from a fight, not sacrificing themselves or being outworked. This is the playoffs. This is what counts. These are the requirements. There is no excuse for a professional athlete to be absent during the playoffs. It's high time to weed out the losers and softies and start acknowledging who the real hockey players are. I've had it with soft players. If you don't hate to lose, stay home or go play for the Ribeiro 11th place Stars.

These are the Habs players who already have a history of soft play in the playoffs:

Markov
Tanguay
Brisebois
Higgins
Plekanec
A. Kost
Sometimes Kovalev


I'm watching.

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Old
04-16-2009, 04:28 PM
  #2
FlyingKostitsyn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catch-22 View Post
Tanguay
Kovalev
I hope Tanguay is soft enough to score us 2 goals in a cup clinching game like he did for Colorado

I don't worry about Kovalev at all, he'll bring in the goods like he does in every playoffs. As inconsistent as he can be in regular season he's like a clock in the playoffs, extremely effective and he works best when angry (something that should happen soon enough against the Goons).

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Old
04-16-2009, 04:28 PM
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..
Higgins.. really?

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Old
04-16-2009, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Catch-22 View Post
Inspiration and optimism haven't been easy to come by watching the Habs this year. I am not expecting that to change much in round 1 against Boston. What has bothered me more than anything else about our team this year, though, is the way they - or some of the players - have failed to compete and simply accepted defeat or rolled over in the face of adversity. These players I call "losers", as in, not winners and I think that a playoff series, where everything counts, against a superior opponent is a good opportunity to figure out who's who. Working on the premises that you can't win with losers; that you need winners in order to win; and that we have a lot of UFAs to consider, I am going to be watching very closely to see who competes and who doesn't. UFA players who do not compete should not be re signed. All others should be traded or relegated to more minor roles come next season. The remaining holes should be filled with players who care.

Competing does not just mean scoring points. Competing means sacrifice. It means doing what it takes to win. It means blocking shots, taking a hit to get the puck out, to maintain or achieve possession, finishing hits, skating hard, playing through pain, winning the battles, earning your space, standing up for your teammates, never backing down and contributing in your expected capacity. In short, IT MEANS HATING TO LOSE!!! I repeat, players who fail to meet this requirement, this expectation, this standard, should be cast out.

I can accept losing to a superior opponent. That is a management issue. But I will not accept players backing down from a fight, not sacrificing themselves or being outworked. This is the playoffs. This is what counts. These are the requirements. There is no excuse for a professional athlete to be absent during the playoffs. It's high time to weed out the losers and softies and start acknowledging who the real hockey players are. I've had it with soft players. If you don't hate to lose, stay home or go play for the Ribeiro 11th place Stars.

These are the Habs players who already have a history of soft play in the playoffs:

Markov
Tanguay
Brisebois
Higgins
Plekanec
A. Kost
Sometimes Kovalev


I'm watching.
Take Tanguay off that list. It's a misconception. His stats with Colorado are good. Calgary never used him properly.

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Old
04-16-2009, 04:30 PM
  #5
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Higgins.. really?
I don't know if soft is the correct word, but Higgins has never been impressive in playoffs (which is surprising really). Lets hope he brings it to another level this year, even after the sub-par season he had.

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Old
04-16-2009, 04:30 PM
  #6
Catch-22
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
I hope Tanguay is soft enough to score us 2 goals in a cup clinching game like he did for Colorado

I don't worry about Kovalev at all, he'll bring in the goods like he does in every playoffs. As inconsistent as he can be in regular season he's like a clock in the playoffs, extremely effective and he works best when angry (something that should happen soon enough against the Goons).

When Kovalev's on he's on. But Tanguay is one of the softest players I have ever seen, even if he did score those SCF goals.

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04-16-2009, 04:34 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catch-22 View Post
Inspiration and optimism haven't been easy to come by watching the Habs this year. I am not expecting that to change much in round 1 against Boston. What has bothered me more than anything else about our team this year, though, is the way they - or some of the players - have failed to compete and simply accepted defeat or rolled over in the face of adversity. These players I call "losers", as in, not winners and I think that a playoff series, where everything counts, against a superior opponent is a good opportunity to figure out who's who. Working on the premises that you can't win with losers; that you need winners in order to win; and that we have a lot of UFAs to consider, I am going to be watching very closely to see who competes and who doesn't. UFA players who do not compete should not be re signed. All others should be traded or relegated to more minor roles come next season. The remaining holes should be filled with players who care.

Competing does not just mean scoring points. Competing means sacrifice. It means doing what it takes to win. It means blocking shots, taking a hit to get the puck out, to maintain or achieve possession, finishing hits, skating hard, playing through pain, winning the battles, earning your space, standing up for your teammates, never backing down and contributing in your expected capacity. In short, IT MEANS HATING TO LOSE!!! I repeat, players who fail to meet this requirement, this expectation, this standard, should be cast out.

I can accept losing to a superior opponent. That is a management issue. But I will not accept players backing down from a fight, not sacrificing themselves or being outworked. This is the playoffs. This is what counts. These are the requirements. There is no excuse for a professional athlete to be absent during the playoffs. It's high time to weed out the losers and softies and start acknowledging who the real hockey players are. I've had it with soft players. If you don't hate to lose, stay home or go play for the Ribeiro 11th place Stars.

These are the Habs players who already have a history of soft play in the playoffs:

Markov
Tanguay
Brisebois
Higgins
Plekanec
A. Kost
Sometimes Kovalev


I'm watching.
huh? akost soft?

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Old
04-16-2009, 04:35 PM
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Kovalev brings it in the playoffs as far as I know and he'll be fine.

Brisebois, I don't want him back even if he plays well.

Tanguay, I'll keep an eye on. I like him but if he doesn't perform in the playoffs, what's the point?

Higgins, he's already playing a diminished (sp?) role and he's been good playing 4th line and pk's.

Markov, well, he's injured but hopefully he comes back early because the Habs probably can't win without him.

Plekanec, yeah, we need to see something from this guy.

AKost, yeah, same here, you need to bring it Andrei.

I'll add Komisarek, but I'm not too worried. The Bruins pretty much force him to compete.

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Old
04-16-2009, 04:37 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catch-22 View Post
Inspiration and optimism haven't been easy to come by watching the Habs this year. I am not expecting that to change much in round 1 against Boston. What has bothered me more than anything else about our team this year, though, is the way they - or some of the players - have failed to compete and simply accepted defeat or rolled over in the face of adversity. These players I call "losers", as in, not winners and I think that a playoff series, where everything counts, against a superior opponent is a good opportunity to figure out who's who. Working on the premises that you can't win with losers; that you need winners in order to win; and that we have a lot of UFAs to consider, I am going to be watching very closely to see who competes and who doesn't. UFA players who do not compete should not be re signed. All others should be traded or relegated to more minor roles come next season. The remaining holes should be filled with players who care.

Competing does not just mean scoring points. Competing means sacrifice. It means doing what it takes to win. It means blocking shots, taking a hit to get the puck out, to maintain or achieve possession, finishing hits, skating hard, playing through pain, winning the battles, earning your space, standing up for your teammates, never backing down and contributing in your expected capacity. In short, IT MEANS HATING TO LOSE!!! I repeat, players who fail to meet this requirement, this expectation, this standard, should be cast out.

I can accept losing to a superior opponent. That is a management issue. But I will not accept players backing down from a fight, not sacrificing themselves or being outworked. This is the playoffs. This is what counts. These are the requirements. There is no excuse for a professional athlete to be absent during the playoffs. It's high time to weed out the losers and softies and start acknowledging who the real hockey players are. I've had it with soft players. If you don't hate to lose, stay home or go play for the Ribeiro 11th place Stars.

These are the Habs players who already have a history of soft play in the playoffs:

Markov
Tanguay
Brisebois
Higgins
Plekanec
A. Kost
Sometimes Kovalev


I'm watching.
2000-2001 Stanley Cup Final

4 goals, 3 assists in 7 games
(2 goals, 1 assist in game 7 --> COL wins 3-1)

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Old
04-16-2009, 04:38 PM
  #10
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Originally Posted by Catch-22 View Post
When Kovalev's on he's on. But Tanguay is one of the softest players I have ever seen, even if he did score those SCF goals.
Well there are softer players than him, he'll throw a good check now and then and doesn't evade physical play as much as other Cinderellas but I agree he's no Gino Odjik

I'd like him to be tougher but its just not part of his game. He's not small but he's not strong enough to win physical battles, as such he needs to be complemented by players who are willing to go in the corners (Saku! Kovy can too, when it counts)

I must admit I haven't seen much of Tanguay in playoff action so its hard to say whether his game will change or not. Still he has been effective in the past so I don't worry much. Even Stanley cup winning teams have non-physical players, and it doesn't prevent these guys from helping their team. The key is having a good balanced roster and not being intimidated.

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Old
04-16-2009, 04:53 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catch-22 View Post
Inspiration and optimism haven't been easy to come by watching the Habs this year. I am not expecting that to change much in round 1 against Boston. What has bothered me more than anything else about our team this year, though, is the way they - or some of the players - have failed to compete and simply accepted defeat or rolled over in the face of adversity. These players I call "losers", as in, not winners and I think that a playoff series, where everything counts, against a superior opponent is a good opportunity to figure out who's who. Working on the premises that you can't win with losers; that you need winners in order to win; and that we have a lot of UFAs to consider, I am going to be watching very closely to see who competes and who doesn't. UFA players who do not compete should not be re signed. All others should be traded or relegated to more minor roles come next season. The remaining holes should be filled with players who care.

Competing does not just mean scoring points. Competing means sacrifice. It means doing what it takes to win. It means blocking shots, taking a hit to get the puck out, to maintain or achieve possession, finishing hits, skating hard, playing through pain, winning the battles, earning your space, standing up for your teammates, never backing down and contributing in your expected capacity. In short, IT MEANS HATING TO LOSE!!! I repeat, players who fail to meet this requirement, this expectation, this standard, should be cast out.

I can accept losing to a superior opponent. That is a management issue. But I will not accept players backing down from a fight, not sacrificing themselves or being outworked. This is the playoffs. This is what counts. These are the requirements. There is no excuse for a professional athlete to be absent during the playoffs. It's high time to weed out the losers and softies and start acknowledging who the real hockey players are. I've had it with soft players. If you don't hate to lose, stay home or go play for the Ribeiro 11th place Stars.

These are the Habs players who already have a history of soft play in the playoffs:

Markov
Tanguay
Brisebois
Higgins
Plekanec
A. Kost
Sometimes Kovalev


I'm watching.
Yikes....not sure how to respond to this post....not very insightful.
I personnaly am excited that our team found a way to make the playoffs despite
all the obvious issues, ie. coaching change, usual montreal media/mafia ties controversey, injuries, Komisarek, pressure of 100thseason, Price's sophmore jinx.
Once your in anything can happen.

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Old
04-16-2009, 05:00 PM
  #12
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Ahhh! Finally a thread where you just can't hate on Koivu no matter what you say!

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Old
04-16-2009, 05:02 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catch-22 View Post
Inspiration and optimism haven't been easy to come by watching the Habs this year. I am not expecting that to change much in round 1 against Boston. What has bothered me more than anything else about our team this year, though, is the way they - or some of the players - have failed to compete and simply accepted defeat or rolled over in the face of adversity. These players I call "losers", as in, not winners and I think that a playoff series, where everything counts, against a superior opponent is a good opportunity to figure out who's who. Working on the premises that you can't win with losers; that you need winners in order to win; and that we have a lot of UFAs to consider, I am going to be watching very closely to see who competes and who doesn't. UFA players who do not compete should not be re signed. All others should be traded or relegated to more minor roles come next season. The remaining holes should be filled with players who care.

Competing does not just mean scoring points. Competing means sacrifice. It means doing what it takes to win. It means blocking shots, taking a hit to get the puck out, to maintain or achieve possession, finishing hits, skating hard, playing through pain, winning the battles, earning your space, standing up for your teammates, never backing down and contributing in your expected capacity. In short, IT MEANS HATING TO LOSE!!! I repeat, players who fail to meet this requirement, this expectation, this standard, should be cast out.

I can accept losing to a superior opponent. That is a management issue. But I will not accept players backing down from a fight, not sacrificing themselves or being outworked. This is the playoffs. This is what counts. These are the requirements. There is no excuse for a professional athlete to be absent during the playoffs. It's high time to weed out the losers and softies and start acknowledging who the real hockey players are. I've had it with soft players. If you don't hate to lose, stay home or go play for the Ribeiro 11th place Stars.

These are the Habs players who already have a history of soft play in the playoffs:

Markov
Tanguay
Brisebois
Higgins
Plekanec
A. Kost
Sometimes Kovalev


I'm watching.

Higgins???? Tanguay ??? OMFG...why do I keep reading crap like this...more importantly, why do I keep answering to these posts... :

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Old
04-16-2009, 05:07 PM
  #14
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huh? akost soft?
Eight pts in his first playoffs.

DISASTER!

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Old
04-16-2009, 05:20 PM
  #15
Catch-22
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Eight pts in his first playoffs.

DISASTER!

Some people forgot to read the part where I noted that point totals do not mean you are sacrificing or a winner. Let's see how these guys do this time.

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Old
04-16-2009, 05:31 PM
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Some people forgot to read the part where I noted that point totals do not mean you are sacrificing or a winner. Let's see how these guys do this time.
I also forgot to read the part where 12 games, where you perform well, can be considered an history.

What do you expect, him to play like Bégin?

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Old
04-16-2009, 09:52 PM
  #17
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Originally Posted by bhuya71 View Post
huh? akost soft?
Akost was the softest player out there except for a couple of hits. Him and Pleks and Tanguay were almost completely invisible and unwilling to pay the price.

Hammrlik struggled once hitting started as he always does in the play offs and even Gorges struggled for most of the game except for a stretch where he carried the puck up ice which led to CH's second goal.

Both these guys need to play like this short spurt by Gorges if they are to be effective, not timid and frightened as they showed most of the game.

This is the Stanley Cup play offs! It''s the most difficult trophy to win in all the sports for a reason.

Accept the fact that you are going to feel pain. Accept the fact that you probably will get hurt. And play smart but play like you can as a man, not cowaring at every impending footstep.

There is still a lot of hockey to be played. Address these issues and CH will be fine.

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Old
04-16-2009, 09:56 PM
  #18
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On that list, i only agree with Plekanec.

I hate Brisebois with passion but he is not soft, he got hit pretty hard by Lucic and got up and did seak revenge or anything. He only suck big times, takes bad decision, make bad pass etc..

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Old
04-16-2009, 10:02 PM
  #19
Em Ancien
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Originally Posted by Shnitzel View Post
2000-2001 Stanley Cup Final

4 goals, 3 assists in 7 games
(2 goals, 1 assist in game 7 --> COL wins 3-1)
Obviously one series completely nullifies the fact his point per game production drops I believe more than 0.3 in the regular season/playoff transition.

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Old
04-16-2009, 10:04 PM
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On that list, i only agree with Plekanec.

I hate Brisebois with passion but he is not soft, he got hit pretty hard by Lucic and got up and did seak revenge or anything. He only suck big times, takes bad decision, make bad pass etc..
Brisbois doesn't compete for the puck along the boards.

Except for about 10 minutes in the 2nd and the beginning of 3rd, the biggest problem CH had was that they were losing all the battles along the boards and all the foot races to the puck because they were afraid of getting hit and the price you had to pay for getting the puck.

Yes, Brisbois is soft.

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Old
04-16-2009, 10:04 PM
  #21
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Plekanec + Kostitsyn

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04-16-2009, 10:04 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
On that list, i only agree with Plekanec.

I hate Brisebois with passion but he is not soft, he got hit pretty hard by Lucic and got up and did seak revenge or anything. He only suck big times, takes bad decision, make bad pass etc..
Agreed about Brisebois, it's too bad he is so terrible because the guy has a huge heart. It's sad seeing him out there taking such a beating (also very sad watching him make all those turnovers...).

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Old
04-16-2009, 10:53 PM
  #23
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PUT D'AGOSTINI ON THE LIST NOW!

The guy's a joke. I'm under the impression that he doesn't play for the team but for himself. For example, when he's covering a player of the opposing team, he's just skating idely and barely swinging his stick as if his only intention is to show the coach that he's trying. You need to get your mind on that puck, get into a player's face, have a speed burst when you know you're probably not going to be the first one to reach the puck.

He plays as if he doesn't give a **ck. Besides, I've never seen him take a hit. EVER.

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Old
04-16-2009, 10:56 PM
  #24
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Who competes? Koivu should be on top of that list.

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Old
04-16-2009, 11:32 PM
  #25
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Koivu knocked Chara off the puck twice while Price was on the bench. Too bad nothing came of it but that was awesome.

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