Russian Prospect for next NHL draft

[pouskin74*]

Originally Posted by Peter25

Russia's 1990 age group was considered super talented a few years ago. Most of the best players from this age group left to play in Canada. Where are they now? Kulikov is the only one of them getting a regular shift in the NHL. The rest of them are in the minors or getting spare shifts in the NHL. Grachev, Loktionov, Filatov (who also left too early),Voinov, Burmistrov, Kugryshev etc. None of these guys have broke out or even close to it.

I believe that Kirill Petrov (who is also a 1990 born) who stayed in Russia is now better than any of them except for Kulikov.

based on what you are saying this? BTW Burmistrov is late 91. you wanna play the game?ok. lets play.
born in 1979,1980,1981,1982,1983,1984,1985- so many players from these years are U18 and U20 gold,silver,bronze medalist! almost none with CHL experience among them. how many of them made the NHL and how many is still in there ?

[pouskin74*]

lets take age group 91. who are the best among them?
Kitzyn F-
Pivtsakin D
Orlov D
Dvurechensky F
Bobkov G - CHL
Zaytzev D
Garipov G
Burmistrov F - CHL
Tarasenko F
Burdasov F
Sobchenko F
Bocharov F
Shikin G
Totchichky F
as we see they are all in Russia except Burmistrov and Bobkov. it will be intresting who is gonna be who in terms of 5 years from now.
age group 92
Kabanov F- CHL
Namestnikov F--CHL
Kuznetsov F
Apalkov F
Gusev F
Berdnikov F - CHL
Barbashev F
Isangulov D
Arzamachev D
Potehkin F

except 3 players...
NB: i am not saying what is good or what is not i just dont see anything wrong if someone choosing CHL instead of Russia. but lets wait how it will turn out

[J17 Vs Proclamation]

Originally Posted by Peter25

Russia's 1990 age group was considered super talented a few years ago. Most of the best players from this age group left to play in Canada. Where are they now? Kulikov is the only one of them getting a regular shift in the NHL. The rest of them are in the minors or getting spare shifts in the NHL. Grachev, Loktionov, Filatov (who also left too early),Voinov, Burmistrov, Kugryshev etc. None of these guys have broke out or even close to it.

I believe that Kirill Petrov (who is also a 1990 born) who stayed in Russia is now better than any of them except for Kulikov.

Historically, you have a very valid point. European players tend to develop better at home.

But using the 90's as validation doesn't work, because at 20 years of age, it is too early to determine NHL success.

Looking at the 90's you highlighted.

Kulikov - developing into a highly skilled NHL player.
Loktionov - great success in the CHL. Is considered the Kings best offensive center prospect. The signs for him look good IMO.
Voinov - has developed very well in the AHL. Looks like he will be a solid NHL player for a long time.
Burmistrov - Made the NHL as an 18 yr old. How is this a failure. Atlanta may have rushed him, remains to be seen, but when he was in Russia, he was considered to be a lesser talent than Tarasenko, Kabanov, kuznetsov etc yet 2 years later plays in the NHL at 18.
Kugryshev - High skill level ; in this case you are right IMO. Better developing in Russia
Grachev - No idea whats gone wrong with him.

Bearing in mind none of the 90's outside of Filatov and Kulikov were 1st rounders, it's difficult to say that we expected any of the others to be stars. As usual with any sample size, some have progressed better than others. The signs for the 90's are solid.

Development is player dependant. There is no definitively correct route. Many Russians do need to stay in Russia earlier, because of the way they player and their lack of physicality. For some however, it isn't an issue.

Recently, Russians going to the CHL early have had more success. Radulov played his development years in NA. Anisimov basically did too. Burmistrov the same.

Interestingly, for defenseman, when was the last time a Russian player who developed entirely in Russia through 18-21 made the NHL? Many solid talents seem to get lost in Russia in this respect. I'd say for D, Kulikov and Voinov made excellent decisions. Will be interesting to see how Orlov, Chudinov, Alexandrov, Marchenko and others fair.

[Zine]

When a player trains in a certain manner and fosters certain skill sets his whole life, it's not smart to change that regimen at the crucial age of 16-19. The skill sets that make Russians attractive prospects generally aren't emphasized in the CHL as much as they are in Russia...hence why you see a lot of players regress in the CHL.

Sure Yakupov is learning to be a more well rounded player, but do you really think his creativity is being developed to the max in the CHL? Right.
He should develop what he's good at first THEN adapt that to the NHL game when he's ready......not the other way around.

[wings5]

Peter25 and Zine both bring very strong argunments to the table. Your points were so strong that I agree with some of what you are saying to an extent. However I feel every case needs to be looked at individually. In this time and age without an agreement between the NHL and Russian Federation these kids don't have much of a choice when it comes to their future. Their goal is obvious, they want to play in the NHL and in Russia playing in MHL 2nd div or spot duty in KHL they simply are not going to get the same recognition that they would recieve in the CHL. It is not a certainty even with players of a higher skill level that they will be chosen so they choose this path to get closer to their dream and get drafter. Who in their right minds would think that players such as Barron Smith, Randy McNaught or, Sawyer Hannay have more talent than Anton Burdasov, Alexei Marchenko and Nikita Gusev. They don't.

These players recieve the attention they do and get drafted simply because they play in front of tons of scouts each and every night and are known to them. The training regimens yes are very different, Russia is very practise oriented with focus on skill development whereas the CHL is emilating the pro league where games is the focus. Whose to say that these players would have been better of in Russia or CHL nobody knows certainly you can make a case for guys like Igor Levitsky who plays a very NA style game to come over but with the more skilled players like I said each case is different. I'm just not sure 5 min in KHL is good for anybody and I'm not sure what to make of the talent in MHL so maybe an in between solution like Vyasha liga would be proper? I believe this was the league of choice for many prominent Russian superstars. Certainly a hard thing to discuss.

[ChadS]

Hey!
Can someone give a short(or long ) oppinion on Nikita Kucherov and will he be drafted this year? Looks like he's put up lots of points in both MHL and national team games.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=77237

[Hockeycritic]

Originally Posted by Tormentor

Any idea of the top 2012 prospects? What would be a top-5 at the moment? Vasilevski and ... known prospects, but what about after that? Are there any promising defensemen?

Nikolai Prokhorkin has started his MHL season well (10gp 8+3=11p), has anyone seen him play?

Yes, PROKHORKIN is really good Center forward with average skating but good overall skills, vision and hands. Just wonder how he plays without average linemates Gusev and Kucherov... that's the question... he needs those people around who understand his creativity on ice.Goalie VASILEVSKI could be interesting...

Here is NOVEMBER list NHL released for 2012 NHL Draft players born 1994 and late 1993
RUSSIA
1. Nikolai Prokhorkin CSKA 2 LW
2. Anton Slepyshev Novokuznetsk LW
3. Vyacheslav Osnovin Chelyabinsk 2 C
4. Valeri Vasiliev Spartak 2 D
5. Egor Malenkikh St. Petersburg 2 D
6. Alexei Filippov Chelyabinsk 2 RW
7. Evgeni Krutikov Spartak 2 LW
8. Alexei Bazanov Voskresensk 2 C/LW/RW
9. Arturs Kuzmenkovs Riga 2 D
10. Artem Chistyakov Chelyabinsk 2 D
11. Alexandr Trindchikov Chelyabinsk 2 LW
12. Nikita Soshnikov Mytischi 2 C/LW/RW
13. Daniil Yunushev Ufa 2 Lw
14. Ilya Yamkin Nizhny Novgorod 2 C/LW/RW
15. Stanislav Gareev Ufa 2 D
16. Timur Shingareev Magnitogorsk 2 RW
17. Alexandr Timirev CSKA 2 RW
18. Kirill Voronin Yaroslavl 2 RW
19. Vladimir Tkachov Kazan 2 C
20. Dimitri Sulov Magnitogorsk 2 D
21. Damir Galin Kazan 2 D
22. Viktor Komarov Chelyabinsk 2 LW
23. Nikita Lisov CSKA 2 D
24. Eduard Gimatov Yekaterinburg 2 C/LW/RW
25. Edgar Kuzin Mytischi 2 C/LW/RW
26. Lauris Rantsevs Riga 2 LW
27. Nikita Kvartalnov Cherepovets 2 C/LW/RW
28. Alexandr Lebedev Yaroslavl 2 LW
29. Denis Vanin Chelyabinsk 2 D
30. Arseni Khatsei Spartak 2 C
31. Damir Zhafyarov Novokuznetsk 2 C/LW/RW
32. Anatoli Ryabov Tyumen 2 LW
33. Ildar Shiksodavov CSKA 2 LW
34. Alexei Bereglazov Magnitogorsk 2 D
35. Andre Mironov MVD Balashikha 2 D
36. Richard Mraz Lev Poprad 2 RW
37. Libor Sulak Lev Poprad 2 D
38. Jiri Sekac Lev Poprad LW
39. Lukas Chalupa Lev Poprad 2 D
40. Karol Csanyi Lev Poprad 2 LW

GOALIES
1. Andre Vasilevski Ufa 2

[PKSpecialist]

Originally Posted by Hockeycritic

Yes, PROKHORKIN is really good Center forward with average skating but good overall skills, vision and hands. Just wonder how he plays without average linemates Gusev and Kucherov... that's the question... he needs those people around who understand his creativity on ice.Goalie VASILEVSKI could be interesting...

Here is NOVEMBER list NHL released for 2012 NHL Draft players born 1994 and late 1993
RUSSIA
1. Nikolai Prokhorkin CSKA 2 LW
2. Anton Slepyshev Novokuznetsk LW
3. Vyacheslav Osnovin Chelyabinsk 2 C
4. Valeri Vasiliev Spartak 2 D
5. Egor Malenkikh St. Petersburg 2 D
6. Alexei Filippov Chelyabinsk 2 RW
7. Evgeni Krutikov Spartak 2 LW
8. Alexei Bazanov Voskresensk 2 C/LW/RW
9. Arturs Kuzmenkovs Riga 2 D
10. Artem Chistyakov Chelyabinsk 2 D
11. Alexandr Trindchikov Chelyabinsk 2 LW
12. Nikita Soshnikov Mytischi 2 C/LW/RW
13. Daniil Yunushev Ufa 2 Lw
14. Ilya Yamkin Nizhny Novgorod 2 C/LW/RW
15. Stanislav Gareev Ufa 2 D
16. Timur Shingareev Magnitogorsk 2 RW
17. Alexandr Timirev CSKA 2 RW
18. Kirill Voronin Yaroslavl 2 RW
19. Vladimir Tkachov Kazan 2 C
20. Dimitri Sulov Magnitogorsk 2 D
21. Damir Galin Kazan 2 D
22. Viktor Komarov Chelyabinsk 2 LW
23. Nikita Lisov CSKA 2 D
24. Eduard Gimatov Yekaterinburg 2 C/LW/RW
25. Edgar Kuzin Mytischi 2 C/LW/RW
26. Lauris Rantsevs Riga 2 LW
27. Nikita Kvartalnov Cherepovets 2 C/LW/RW
28. Alexandr Lebedev Yaroslavl 2 LW
29. Denis Vanin Chelyabinsk 2 D
30. Arseni Khatsei Spartak 2 C
31. Damir Zhafyarov Novokuznetsk 2 C/LW/RW
32. Anatoli Ryabov Tyumen 2 LW
33. Ildar Shiksodavov CSKA 2 LW
34. Alexei Bereglazov Magnitogorsk 2 D
35. Andre Mironov MVD Balashikha 2 D
36. Richard Mraz Lev Poprad 2 RW
37. Libor Sulak Lev Poprad 2 D
38. Jiri Sekac Lev Poprad LW
39. Lukas Chalupa Lev Poprad 2 D
40. Karol Csanyi Lev Poprad 2 LW

GOALIES
1. Andre Vasilevski Ufa 2

Has anyone seen some of these players play that could give the rest of us some insight? Thanks in advance.

[Latgale_fan]

Originally Posted by PKSpecialist

Has anyone seen some of these players play that could give the rest of us some insight? Thanks in advance.

This list is not topical anymore, there are lots of mistakes in there. If we look at MIDTERM RANKINGS though...http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=76672

1. Nikolai Prokhorkin
2. Anton Slepyshev
3. Vyacheslav Osnovin
4. Valeri Vasiliev
5. Nikita Gusev
6. Alexey Filippov
7. Evgeni Krutikov
8. Daniil Yunushev
9. Egor Malenkih
10. Stanislav Gareev
11. Alexei Bazanov
12. Timur Shingareev
13. Ditri Stulov

I left out Podzins and Misyul as they are Latvian and Belorussian and Czechs/Slovaks from LEV youth team

The problem is that PROKHORKIN is already 1993 so I don't think he'll be taken high (if he'll be taken). Slepyshev already plays in KHL so I think he could go 1st-2nd round. Osnovin, Vasiliev and others... I see them maybe in later rounds. Nikita Gusev, despite the age and size will, imho, be drafted as he's a very good player.

Otherwise, except for Slepyshev I don't see high end talent there. Maybe with time they can develop.


Goalies:

1. Andrei Vasilevski
2. Vasili Demchenko

Vasilevski was great in WJC. I think he can become a great goalie. In any case best Russian prospects are in CHL already- Grigorenko, Yakupov, Zharkov, Kamaev...

[pouskin74*]

Originally Posted by Latgale_fan

This list is not topical anymore, there are lots of mistakes in there. If we look at MIDTERM RANKINGS though...http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=76672

1. Nikolai Prokhorkin
2. Anton Slepyshev
3. Vyacheslav Osnovin
4. Valeri Vasiliev
5. Nikita Gusev
6. Alexey Filippov
7. Evgeni Krutikov
8. Daniil Yunushev
9. Egor Malenkih
10. Stanislav Gareev
11. Alexei Bazanov
12. Timur Shingareev
13. Ditri Stulov

I left out Podzins and Misyul as they are Latvian and Belorussian and Czechs/Slovaks from LEV youth team

The problem is that PROKHORKIN is already 1993 so I don't think he'll be taken high (if he'll be taken). Slepyshev already plays in KHL so I think he could go 1st-2nd round. Osnovin, Vasiliev and others... I see them maybe in later rounds. Nikita Gusev, despite the age and size will, imho, be drafted as he's a very good player.

Otherwise, except for Slepyshev I don't see high end talent there. Maybe with time they can develop.


Goalies:

1. Andrei Vasilevski
2. Vasili Demchenko

Vasilevski was great in WJC. I think he can become a great goalie. In any case best Russian prospects are in CHL already- Grigorenko, Yakupov, Zharkov, Kamaev...

Yakupov is 93 as well and just 3 weeks younger than Prokhorkin, so your point about his age and draft position isnt valid. BTW Nikolai is way better prospect than Zharkov or Kamaev.

[ozo]

Originally Posted by pouskin74

BTW Nikolai is way better prospect than Zharkov or Kamaev.

... because?

[Fulcrum]

Originally Posted by ozo

... because?

Because he's shown a very mature game and played some good games for CSKA KHL team. Because he centered the lethal Gusev and Kucherov duo for the longest time, and his size and skill set are excellent. He's been slightly overshadowed by younger Grigorenko, but real CSKA fans know that he's the #1 center prospect.

[ozo]

Originally Posted by Fulcrum

Because he's shown a very mature game and played some good games for CSKA KHL team. Because he centered the lethal Gusev and Kucherov duo for the longest time, and his size and skill set are excellent. He's been slightly overshadowed by younger Grigorenko, but real CSKA fans know that he's the #1 center prospect.

Thanks, for the scouting report. Could you tell me who's the best player on CSKA roster which doesn't get enough hype but is a great prospect. We hear a lot about Gusev, Kucherov, Prokhorkin, is there a dark horse there?

[cska78]

Originally Posted by ozo

Thanks, for the scouting report. Could you tell me who's the best player on CSKA roster which doesn't get enough hype but is a great prospect. We hear a lot about Gusev, Kucherov, Prokhorkin, is there a dark horse there?

Tolchinskiy, he's smallish but gonna be amazing

[Yakushev72]

Originally Posted by wings5

Peter25 and Zine both bring very strong argunments to the table. Your points were so strong that I agree with some of what you are saying to an extent. However I feel every case needs to be looked at individually. In this time and age without an agreement between the NHL and Russian Federation these kids don't have much of a choice when it comes to their future. Their goal is obvious, they want to play in the NHL and in Russia playing in MHL 2nd div or spot duty in KHL they simply are not going to get the same recognition that they would recieve in the CHL. It is not a certainty even with players of a higher skill level that they will be chosen so they choose this path to get closer to their dream and get drafter. Who in their right minds would think that players such as Barron Smith, Randy McNaught or, Sawyer Hannay have more talent than Anton Burdasov, Alexei Marchenko and Nikita Gusev. They don't.

These players recieve the attention they do and get drafted simply because they play in front of tons of scouts each and every night and are known to them. The training regimens yes are very different, Russia is very practise oriented with focus on skill development whereas the CHL is emilating the pro league where games is the focus. Whose to say that these players would have been better of in Russia or CHL nobody knows certainly you can make a case for guys like Igor Levitsky who plays a very NA style game to come over but with the more skilled players like I said each case is different. I'm just not sure 5 min in KHL is good for anybody and I'm not sure what to make of the talent in MHL so maybe an in between solution like Vyasha liga would be proper? I believe this was the league of choice for many prominent Russian superstars. Certainly a hard thing to discuss.

You can't say with certainty in each case whether a player would be better off in the CHL or MHL/KHL, but for the vast majority of Russians, developing at home seems to be the better choice. One reason for that is one that you mentioned - Russian hockey has more emphasis on developing skills in practice, and if a kid wants to play in the NHL or KHL, skill combined with talent will determine where he goes and how far he goes. Also, while the CHL produces a lot of top players with 60 teams, the fact that there are 60 teams means that there are a lot of CHL players who are no better than their counterparts in the MHL. If you want to go to the NHL, a player gets a lot of exposure to scouts in the CHL, but the NHL also scouts international tournaments heavily, so if you are a top level member of a national team, your game will be well-known to NHL scouts.