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Am I the only one who doesn't want to trade everyone...

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Old
04-20-2009, 10:11 PM
  #1
Fire Brunet*
 
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Am I the only one who doesn't want to trade everyone...

Doesn't to trade every player because they had an off year? Because it seems like our fan base has already given up on 20-25 year olds.

I'm I the only one?

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Old
04-20-2009, 10:12 PM
  #2
hototogisu
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You must not be familiar with how we do things.

We moan and whine and complain about the young players when they're here, then after we trade them and they have success with their new teams, we moan and whine and complain about how we were too impatient with them.

About the only player with an off year I want to see gone is your namesake, mainly because he's going to cost a crapload more than what he's actually worth.

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04-20-2009, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
You must not be familiar with how we do things.

We moan and whine and complain about the young players when they're here, then after we trade them and they have success with their new teams, we moan and whine and complain about how we were too impatient with them.

About the only player with an off year I want to see gone is your namesake, mainly because he's going to cost a crapload more than what he's actually worth.
I can handle a player's off year (aka Ryder last year), but what I can't handle is lack of effort or willingness to pay the price for the puck. Pleks and the Kostitsyns showed that through and through this year - dispicable. I don't want that on my team so as far as I'm concerned, they can go.

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Old
04-20-2009, 10:17 PM
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twenty7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
You must not be familiar with how we do things.

We moan and whine and complain about the young players when they're here, then after we trade them and they have success with their new teams, we moan and whine and complain about how we were too impatient with them.


About the only player with an off year I want to see gone is your namesake, mainly because he's going to cost a crapload more than what he's actually worth.
that's a vicious cycle a vicious indeed errmmmmm

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Old
04-20-2009, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
You must not be familiar with how we do things.

We moan and whine and complain about the young players when they're here, then after we trade them and they have success with their new teams, we moan and whine and complain about how we were too impatient with them.

About the only player with an off year I want to see gone is your namesake, mainly because he's going to cost a crapload more than what he's actually worth.
Well that's why I feel like one of the only fans that sees the big pictures in this board.

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Old
04-20-2009, 10:22 PM
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hototogisu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadHabit View Post
I can handle a player's off year (aka Ryder last year), but what I can't handle is lack of effort or willingness to pay the price for the puck. Pleks and the Kostitsyns showed that through and through this year - dispicable. I don't want that on my team so as far as I'm concerned, they can go.
See that's what I'm talking about. In Montreal, Ribeiro received the exact same kind of criticism. Last year he put up 17 points in 18 games in the playoffs for the Stars.

We have to remember these are kids and have some patience with them. the Kostitsyns are what, 21 and 23 years old? And maybe at this point in their careers no, they're not keen about going into the corners with a 7' Chara. But hopefully as they mature (physically and as overall hockey players) that'll come.

And even with Ribeiro, I'm sure he wasn't the Stars' grittiest guy in the playoffs, but if he puts up the points...does it really matter? If we can get one or the other from thoe players, I'll be content.

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Old
04-20-2009, 10:26 PM
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I want an experienced coach and a new GM to take the team in another direction. I also want more leadership on the team, and probably another captain. It's time to change something...each season, we are good for a while, and then, we suck, and for a long time. Even last year when we finished first! Something as to be done...

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Old
04-20-2009, 10:38 PM
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I don't think you should give anyone away for free.. But if you can trade A. Kostitsyn for a constant 60 pts player, I'd do in today even if Andrei has the skill to score 80 pts. I'm just tried of having YO-YO players on the team. One or two is ok, but Higgins, the two Kostitsyns, Kovalev, Latendresse, and Plekanec, are two line's worth. I'd rather depends on guys who have a lower ceiling than guys who are are unpredictable and have a higher point ceiling...

I also like players who are a little more mentally tough...

So ya, I'll agree to trade for something equal, but no, don't just trade them away for pucks..

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Old
04-20-2009, 10:47 PM
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watch us trade the kost brothers and they end up like the sedins

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Old
04-20-2009, 11:30 PM
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I don't care who we trade as long as we keep a good core there, but we need to reinforce our center line, and not with a 39yo center (no offense to Lang).

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Old
04-20-2009, 11:31 PM
  #11
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I think Pleky and Akost will turn it around. honestly.

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Old
04-20-2009, 11:35 PM
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This is typical habs fans

This guy sucks! TRADE HIM

YEAH HE'S GONE PARTYY

WUT? HE DOING GOOD, WHATEVER

WHY DID WE TRADED THIS GUY? WHY DOES THIS BUSHLEAGUE MANAGEMENT IS STILL HERE? FIRE COACH FIRE GM

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Old
04-20-2009, 11:48 PM
  #13
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FIRE EVERYONE AND CALL UP THE BULLDOGS!

Heck, that's not enough.

FIRE THE BULLDOGS TOO AND CALL UP THE CYCLONES!

I'm with you, you can't trade the entire team based on a cursed caricature of a bad season.

I think Kovalev and Koivu will get hurt before next game, just to drive home the point of exactly why this team hasn't met expectations.

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Old
04-20-2009, 11:50 PM
  #14
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Originally Posted by marc88 View Post
watch us trade the kost brothers and they end up like the sedins
If the return is emmmm.....lets say Kovalchuk, im good.

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Old
04-21-2009, 12:03 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Komisarek
Doesn't to trade every player because they had an off year? Because it seems like our fan base has already given up on 20-25 year olds.

I'm I the only one?
I agree, we often give up on players too fast. You shouldn't expect to come here and see logic and reason after the team fell 3-0 in a 1st round series agaisnt the Bruins however...

Fortunately a lot of Hab fans are surprisingly forgiving when "hating" (or loving) and are absolute hypocrites (about hockey at least). Two years ago most wanted Kovalev to be traded for a 5th round pick, last year he was the most popular player, this year most wanted to trade him again for a 5th round pick until he picked it up and became their favourite player again. Last year Price was one of the most popular players, this year he's one of the most hated guys in town. I'm pretty sure if Price has a good season he'll be a hero.

Still there needs to be some changes, and its clear some players won't and shouldn't be back. While injuries broke the team's legs for most of the year there are fundamental flaws that need to be adressed. Our alleged depth wasn't that deep :

Our half a dozen young scoring wingers all sucked (wing was to be our deepest position, bolstered with the arrival of Tanguay. while he was injured our other wingers were unable to replace him even marginally and our recruits were average at best).

Our center depth, which we believed was fixed with the arrival of Lang, was not fixed at all with Plekanec failing, Koivu going down for some time for injury (was to be expected) and Plekanec failing again.

The most predictable "flaw" in the lineup was a D, which Bob did not fix in the off season. Markov's injury hurts us this much because we have no real no2 defensemen. Schneider can help a powerplay but he can't handle a lot of 5 on 5 minutes, Hamrlik's offense is a thing of the past and he's visibly aging and decaying and Komisarek has the hands and offensive skills of a very average 6th D. While O'Byrne's failure of a season sure hurt our depth, it wasn't much of a factor because Gorges and Dandenault stepped forward. We had no young defensemen with offensive upside on the lineup. Obviously few teams have the luxury of having more than one legit no1 D "just in case", but most team don't rely on just one offensive D for most of the year. Take the Pens, Gonchar being injured hurt them a lot, but it would have been MUCH worse if they didn't have Letang or Goligoski. What if the Habs missed Markov for as many games as Gonchar did?

We need to revamp the defense and fix our forward corp (which includes a lot of players with absolutely no chemistry with each other and complete lack of drive. the "core", while effective, is too old and the youth is too inconsistant). Goaltending is perhaps the biggest problem, trading either Halak or Price would be a big mistake and so could keeping both be. One thing is for sure : Price needs to reclaim and deserve his no1 title, he shouldn't be put in a position were he can take it for granted. Take a step back to better jump forward sort of.

These problems will have to be fixed and for this we need to trade players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwishihadacup
This is typical habs fans

This guy sucks! TRADE HIM

YEAH HE'S GONE PARTYY

WUT? HE DOING GOOD, WHATEVER

WHY DID WE TRADED THIS GUY? WHY DOES THIS BUSHLEAGUE MANAGEMENT IS STILL HERE? FIRE COACH FIRE GM
Sort of like you and Kovalev?

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Old
04-21-2009, 12:53 AM
  #16
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I only want real QUEBECOIS PURE LAINE on the team, they have heart and understand what the CH means to the fans... Get rid of the European pansies...

As Michel Villeneuve once said, we need guys like Derek Roy, Patrick Marleau, etc. You know, "des bons ptits gars d'chez nous!"...

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Old
04-21-2009, 04:39 AM
  #17
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It is the way of so many Habs fans. Personally I don't think this team needs a major overhall but is in need of some tweaking in the form of a top center and another puck moving dman. T

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Old
04-21-2009, 04:45 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belso View Post
I don't think you should give anyone away for free.. But if you can trade A. Kostitsyn for a constant 60 pts player, I'd do in today even if Andrei has the skill to score 80 pts. I'm just tried of having YO-YO players on the team. One or two is ok, but Higgins, the two Kostitsyns, Kovalev, Latendresse, and Plekanec, are two line's worth. I'd rather depends on guys who have a lower ceiling than guys who are are unpredictable and have a higher point ceiling...

I also like players who are a little more mentally tough...

So ya, I'll agree to trade for something equal, but no, don't just trade them away for pucks..
21, 23 and 21 years old...

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Old
04-21-2009, 05:12 AM
  #19
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Originally Posted by Mike Komisarek View Post
Doesn't to trade every player because they had an off year?
I don't think this is an off year. We have to consider that the team might have topped last year and we've gotten worst over the summer.

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04-21-2009, 05:29 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orange View Post
I don't think this is an off year. We have to consider that the team might have topped last year and we've gotten worst over the summer.
So your saying guys like Andrei and Sergei, Plecky, Price etc have all peaked in their first or second year in the league and will never get any better?


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04-21-2009, 05:44 AM
  #21
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Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
So your saying guys like Andrei and Sergei, Plecky, Price etc have all peaked in their first or second year in the league and will never get any better?

No it's not what I'm saying. Progress isn't static nor linear. If you view things globally (team wise that is), a case could be made that individual progress isn't replenishing our overall team talent as fast as it's leaving. Having a lot of impending UFAs and much of our young talent fast approaching UFA status, a case can be made that we're missing our window of opportunity.

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Old
04-21-2009, 05:53 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orange View Post
No it's not what I'm saying. Progress isn't static nor linear. If you view things globally (team wise that is), a case could be made that individual progress isn't replenishing our overall team talent as fast as it's leaving. Having a lot of impending UFAs and much of our young talent fast approaching UFA status, a case can be made that we're missing our window of opportunity.
In today's NHL things can change very fast. Who says Gainey will not be able to lure a couple of good free agents who will mesh properly with the existing team and we turn around and really contend for the cup?

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Old
04-21-2009, 06:01 AM
  #23
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Thank you for this thread. I was thinking of starting myself to find out who doesn't want to trade our young propects simply because of an off-season.

Akost has too much potential to trade right away. Potential that this team aboslutely needs and that's someone who can put the puck in the net. Trading him is stupid, reactionary and a decision this team will wind up regretting.

Plekanec I'm wiling to give one more season. He's a smart player with decent skills and I think he can be a solid 2nd line center. I'm hoping his is simply an off year and he'll come back next season with a vengeance.

Obyrne *sigh*, huge step back in development and is someone I won't miss. Too passive for a man his size. Stay at home defensemen need a mean streak and he does not appear to have any.

I don't understand these posters suggesting to blowup the team by trading Price and the Kosytsin bros. They're mad young and are oozing with talent yet they should get traded due to a bad year. These are humps that they need to go through as players to mature and reach their potential.

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Old
04-21-2009, 06:08 AM
  #24
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It helps to remember a bit of history. Guy Lafleur himself went backwards in his first three years in the league; had these boards been around then he would have been pronounced an absolute bust. Young players are like yo-yos, they go up and down until they find their level . Ask yourself: when was the last time when we gave up on a young player and not found ourselves regretting it: Ribs? Ryder ? Even Grabs is showing himself to be a solid, if ugly, NHLer. AK will ,guaranteed, score forty plus goals for someone at some time in his career. Let's let it be for us, this time.

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Old
04-21-2009, 06:14 AM
  #25
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Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
In today's NHL things can change very fast. Who says Gainey will not be able to lure a couple of good free agents who will mesh properly with the existing team and we turn around and really contend for the cup?
I'm not saying Gainey can't turn it around. But he must acknowledge the problem before he can fix it.

That being said, I find the "a few good free agents" option either overly optimistic or borderline naive. I don't think it's possible to change the dynamics of this team without trading a few of our young talent (not all of it mind you).

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