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Old
04-21-2009, 02:02 PM
  #26
Ruckus007
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Originally Posted by Clock View Post
He's an idiot and apparently just a fairweather fan.

I mean, seriously - folks who pay big money to watch the team in hard economic times are somehow bad fans?

I wish there were comments on that article, I'm sure there would be some amusing ones in there.
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Originally Posted by Megaera View Post
I would say two things: a) He's trying to stir up conversation. B) He's a ******. We all read it. We're all talking about it. Mission accomplished as far as the News is concerned I imagine.

I know that he's a ****-stirrer but this is biting the hand that feeds you. Complain about the Bills, complain about the Sabres, fine. But the people who follow the teams? That's a horrendous lack of personal judgment.

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04-21-2009, 02:08 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Ruckus007 View Post
But the people who follow the teams? That's a horrendous lack of personal judgment.
Sure, but he complains about the fans all the time. I mean, this article is basically a rehash of things he's said before, isn't it? (Most Bucky articles are, after all.)

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04-21-2009, 02:09 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megaera View Post
I would say two things: a) He's trying to stir up conversation. B) He's a ******. We all read it. We're all talking about it. Mission accomplished as far as the News is concerned I imagine.
Being obnoxiously stupid in your articles will certainly garner interest until it becomes the norm, at which time folks will just tune you out.

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04-21-2009, 02:51 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Megaera View Post
Sure, but he complains about the fans all the time. I mean, this article is basically a rehash of things he's said before, isn't it? (Most Bucky articles are, after all.)
Like when he called Bills fans idiots for painting their faces.


He's a ******* that I routinely disagree with/ignore and the only that really bothers me now is that TBN still employs him and not someone more deserving.

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04-21-2009, 03:09 PM
  #30
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I will continue to buy season tickets until such a time that I can't find anyone to buy the games that I can't attend or can't find folks to split the seasons with me.

For me, there's a lot more to the cost of a game than the ticket. Parking, sitter, beverages. When the team is playing well, we'll usually cut loose a bit at the arena, and generally walk through the store on our way out (probably buying something 1 out of 4-5 times that we go through it). If the team isn't playing well, we usually spend a good chunk of the third figuring out what to do afterward, then cut out as soon as it's over.

The point is, I definitely spend less money on the team when they stink, but it'll take a bit more punishment before I give up on the seats that I've been sitting in for the past few seasons.

Quote:
The Sabres' renewals for season tickets were around 80 percent, remarkable given what has happened to the former Stanley Cup contender.
I know that Bucky thinks that 80% is remarkable, but is it really? Is 80% renewal good or bad? I can't remember seeing a stat on the number of folks that renewed after last season.


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Originally Posted by whiplash View Post
Like when he called Bills fans idiots for painting their faces.


He's a ******* that I routinely disagree with/ignore and the only that really bothers me now is that TBN still employs him and not someone more deserving.
According to Bucky, you should stop buying the TBN

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04-21-2009, 04:04 PM
  #31
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Bucky's job is to ultimately sell papers and I get that, but my problem with the article is this is literally the easiest argument to make. How freaking lazy can you be, the fans tolerate losing cause they keep showing up? Did he even see a game over the last half of the year? The Sabres were getting booed at the drop of a hat! They could be up 3-0, have one bad power play, and the crowd would lose it! I personally think sports fans in this town have gotten too negative, although understandably, from all the crap that they've had to go through. They're still there though, I'm a small town, in a crappy economy, the fact that people still sell out games to both of the town's professional teams should be a source of pride not ridicule.

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04-21-2009, 04:23 PM
  #32
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I think some of you are missing his point.

Quote:
Why make any real changes to the Sabres when it's obvious that fans will keep coming?
This makes perfect sense, why would Quinn and BTG make any changes to the team when the product is still selling. We all know both of them know little about hockey and are business men first so why would they change anything at all when mediocrity sells in this town.

Another point that is relevant.

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I'm not here to tell anyone how they should spend their money.

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Old
04-21-2009, 04:43 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Ruckus007 View Post
I know that he's a ****-stirrer but this is biting the hand that feeds you. Complain about the Bills, complain about the Sabres, fine. But the people who follow the teams? That's a horrendous lack of personal judgment.
Mocking and belittling fans from time to time hasn't hurt Schopp's career a bit.

Every once and awhile Bucky feels the need to channel his inner Sully. The results are usually unappealling.


I would differentiate between the fan bases though.


The Sabres are only two years removed from the best record in the NHL. The Bills have been stuck in mediocre-ville for a decade. With an owner that to but it bluntly sucks. He had only one Era of success in the NFL. That was the Polian/Butler ERA. Before and after that ERA, the Bills were usually not very good or had a couple good seasons but that was it. Wilson never made a committment to winning and fired the one GM that fought him to sustain the Kelly teams.

I personal don't get why fans keep selling out the Ralph with the way that team continually ***** on them and produces a crap product.

I do remember attending some of the Bills games in the 80's Bucky touched on . There were in some cases 30-40k fans.

My fav is Wilson crying about not making enough money then not selling the naming rights to the stadium.

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Old
04-21-2009, 04:49 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Mocking and belittling fans from time to time hasn't hurt Schopp's career a bit.

Every once and awhile Bucky feels the need to channel his inner Sully. The results are usually unappealling.


I would differentiate between the fan bases though.


The Sabres are only two years removed from the best record in the NHL. The Bills have been stuck in mediocre-ville for a decade. With an owner that to but it bluntly sucks. He had onyl one Era of success and that was the Polian/Butler ERA. Before and after that ERA, the Bills were usually not very good or had a couple good seasons but that was it. Wilson never made a committment to winning and fired the one GM that fought him to sustain the Kelly teams.

I personal don't get why fans keep selling out the Ralph with the way that team continually ***** on them and produces a crap product.

I do remember attending some of the Bills games in the 80's Bucky touched on . There were in some cases 30-40k fans.

My fav is Wilson crying about not making enough money then not selling the naming rights to the stadium.
They haven't been. The only reason most games "sell out" is because Ralph buys a bunch of tickets. Even with that happening some of the games haven't sold out over the past few seasons.

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Old
04-21-2009, 04:52 PM
  #35
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Is that are very own Ace in the comments section after Bucky's article?

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Old
04-21-2009, 04:58 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Mocking and belittling fans from time to time hasn't hurt Schopp's career a bit.

Every once and awhile Bucky feels the need to channel his inner Sully. The results are usually unappealling.


I would differentiate between the fan bases though.


THe Sares are only two years removed from the best record in the NHL. The Bills have been stuck in mediocre-ville for a decade. WIth an owner that to but it bluntly sucks.

I personal don't get why fans keep selling out the Ralph with the way that team continually ***** on them and produces a crap product.

I do remember attending some of the Bills games in the 80's Bucky touched on . There were in some cases 30-40k fans.
When I moved to Champaign I bought season football tickets as soon as I could even though I had no connection to the Illinois program and the team was terrible. Tickets were cheap and the experience was and is enjoyable. Every fan wants to come home from watching a win, but plenty of people are fine with the experience.

I realize I'm not articulating the reason behind my disgust well. I don't listen to Schopp a lot but it seems like he tends to pick on people who make arguments that annoy him. I don't like him and I'm not defending him but he doesn't come off as getting insulting fans for their fandom, I think he insults fans that he just doesn't like and that happens on the morning show too. Maybe I just don't listen enough. Besides, and I made this point at the deadline with the Regier/Bucky thing over Connolly, I have a higher standard for Bucky, Vogl, Sullivan, etc than I do for guys like Schopp, Simon or Bulldog.

But about Gleason, it's not that he took a shot at the people who want to fire Ruff or the people who preferred Kelly Holcomb to J.P., he insulted everyone who has an interest in these teams. Everyone. He basically questioned the "manhood" of anyone who still spends any money on the Sabres and/or Bills. To me, that's completely inappropriate and it's also foolhardy as these are the people who are reading his columns and buying the papers he's selling. Sullivan hasn't even stooped to this level. I almost want to by season tickets now in spite of Bucky (not really but you get the idea).

EDIT: Maybe I would be less incensed if Bucky (and Sullivan) didn't use the "voice of the fan" schtick so much in his columns against management. That whole concept annoys me to begin with but to now mock the people who he used to claim to champion? Like I said, very poor judgment. (I think this sums up my feelings better than the ramble above).


Last edited by Ruckus007: 04-21-2009 at 05:03 PM.
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Old
04-21-2009, 05:27 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruckus007 View Post
When I moved to Champaign I bought season football tickets as soon as I could even though I had no connection to the Illinois program and the team was terrible. Tickets were cheap and the experience was and is enjoyable. Every fan wants to come home from watching a win, but plenty of people are fine with the experience.

I realize I'm not articulating the reason behind my disgust well. I don't listen to Schopp a lot but it seems like he tends to pick on people who make arguments that annoy him. I don't like him and I'm not defending him but he doesn't come off as getting insulting fans for their fandom, I think he insults fans that he just doesn't like and that happens on the morning show too. Maybe I just don't listen enough. Besides, and I made this point at the deadline with the Regier/Bucky thing over Connolly, I have a higher standard for Bucky, Vogl, Sullivan, etc than I do for guys like Schopp, Simon or Bulldog.

But about Gleason, it's not that he took a shot at the people who want to fire Ruff or the people who preferred Kelly Holcomb to J.P., he insulted everyone who has an interest in these teams. Everyone. He basically questioned the "manhood" of anyone who still spends any money on the Sabres and/or Bills. To me, that's completely inappropriate and it's also foolhardy as these are the people who are reading his columns and buying the papers he's selling. Sullivan hasn't even stooped to this level. I almost want to by season tickets now in spite of Bucky (not really but you get the idea).
You're entitled to your rage and I'm not going to try and convince you otherwise.


But I do have an issue with these "standards" many seem to have for TBN writers.

I think many on here pine for some mythical time when there were nothing but Cronkite like sports reporters. Those days are greatly over inflated. Not unlike Bucky's opinion of fans from days gone by.

You want to talk about axes to grind. Hall fo Famer Jim Kelley could carry a grudge with the best of them. He frequently took advantage of his postion to further his agendas. In many ways that was worse. Since he was pretty much gospel when it came to the Sabres back in his tenure with the News. There was no HFboards to go to to find out alternate views or more information on his articles.

Not to mention this was an opinion piece by Bucky. I'm not sure why he can;t say what he said. I don't agree with him at least as it pertains to Sabres fans. Bills fans on the other hand.....

EDIT: and no I am not equating the writing abilities of Bucky and Kelley


Last edited by joshjull: 04-21-2009 at 05:52 PM.
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Old
04-21-2009, 05:29 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Ruckus007 View Post
... this is biting the hand that feeds you.
I'm pretty sure it takes more than one hand to feed Bucky...


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Old
04-21-2009, 05:44 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
You're entitled to your rage and I'm not going to try and convince you otherwise.


But I do have an issue with these "standards" many seem to have for TBN writers.

I think many on here pine for some mythical time when there were nothing but Cronkite like sports reporters. Those days are greatly over inflated. Not unlike Bucky's opinion of fans from days gone by.

You want to talk about axes to grind. Hall fo Famer Jim Kelley could carry a grudge with the best of them. He frequently took advantage of his postion to further his agendas. In many ways that was worse since he was pretty much gospel when it came to the Sabres back in his tenure with the Sabres. There was no HFboards to go to to find out alternate views or more information on his articles.
I know its gone and believe me, I'm slowly coming to grips with teh reality that the fourth estate isn't coming back. Slowly.

I still think the people who report the news (that is anyone on a Sabres or Bills beat, which Bucky is; I have similar treatment for Hamilton, FYI) have a different standard than those who just report it. The fact that people Bucky and Sullivan are in the group that do both, well I think that contributes a lot to the downfall that you've mentioned.

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04-21-2009, 05:55 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Not to mention this was an opinion piece by Bucky. I'm not sure why he can;t say what he said. I don't agree with him at least as it pertains to Sabres fans.
Of course he can say it. I don't think that should be the issue, particularly since he just did. And I'm not sure how the fact that it was an opinion piece changes things given that much of what Bucky does for the news is write opinion pieces. But his opinion was so condescending as to be insulting.

Personally, I don't know that I hold the newspaper columnists to a different standard than the radio guys, though. Bucky, Sully, Schopp . . . I pretty much think they're all bad. Of course, I'm not much of a fan of Kelley at this point either. At least not when it comes to his reporting on the Sabres.

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04-21-2009, 05:59 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Ruckus007 View Post
I know its gone and believe me, I'm slowly coming to grips with teh reality that the fourth estate isn't coming back. Slowly.

I still think the people who report the news (that is anyone on a Sabres or Bills beat, which Bucky is; I have similar treatment for Hamilton, FYI) have a different standard than those who just report it. The fact that people Bucky and Sullivan are in the group that do both, well I think that contributes a lot to the downfall that you've mentioned.
I'm saying there was no golden age of sports reporting not that there was a downfall.

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Old
04-21-2009, 06:00 PM
  #42
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My fav is Wilson crying about not making enough money then not selling the naming rights to the stadium.
That's my personal pet peeve. Ralph talks about leaving no stone unturned in search for revenue in WNY, and how the well is tapped dry, and he cries poverty to the league, and he tells fans that he needs to regionalize the franchise by moving home games to Toronto. Meanwhile, he turns down the millions and millions of dollars that could be had by selling the naming rights to the stadium, because he needs to name it after himself. What an egotistical SOB.

I guess it's more important to have your name on the stadium than to actually play football games in it, eh Ralphie?

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04-21-2009, 07:13 PM
  #43
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Attitudes change when the prospect of losing a team is always out there lurking. I think the fans realize, at least subconsciously, the odds of keeping both teams in Buffalo are much higher if they're well supported. If the fans stopped attending games, Gleason would rail against the fairweather, bandwagon fans.

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04-21-2009, 07:19 PM
  #44
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Is that are very own Ace in the comments section after Bucky's article?
Well it's either me or this guy:




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04-21-2009, 08:01 PM
  #45
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Well it's either me or this guy:




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04-22-2009, 04:01 PM
  #46
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Another point that is relevant.
You can't make that point in an article where you spend the entire length of the piece telling people they are wrong for supporting teams by giving them your money.

That is exactly the opposite of what the whole purpose of the article is and if you accept one the other shouldn't even be there. It's like telling someone "No offense, but you are an idiot" and then expecting them to be ok with that.

That being said he is a poor journalist and he resembles the majority of people posting on message boards just like this. Actaully I would say that is an insult to most people who post on message boards. I could have wrote that article, and I could have wrote it much better.

I'm not sure how he validates his salary.

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Old
04-22-2009, 04:33 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by aceface33 View Post
Well it's either me or this guy:



I have an idea who posted two below your response as well...

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Old
04-22-2009, 05:40 PM
  #48
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My heart fills with rue for days of yore,
When sports journalism mattered more,
Filled with facts and colorful content,
Not just simple self-aggrandizement.
nice griff

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