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Ottawa - San Jose

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Old
05-07-2009, 01:56 PM
  #1
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Ottawa - San Jose

To Ottawa
Christian Ehrhoff
Logan Couture

To SanJose
9th overall pick
Brian Lee
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- Sens get a defenseman who can play 22-24 minutes a game all situations. Put up 45-50 points. Makes 3.1 for three more years.
- Also get a good two-way prospect that played for the 67's, could play on the 2nd line with Foligno for years to come.

- Sharks get a young smooth skating defenseman who has 40 point upside.
- Sharks get the 9th pick from an incredibly deep draft. A piece that should be a building block.

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Old
05-07-2009, 03:33 PM
  #2
stempniaksen
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The value probably isnt that far off (although tilted towards Ottawa for sure).

As a sens fan though i woud just keep the pick. I know we are in ''win now mode'' but our prospect pool could really use another high end guy.

That's not to say that I wouldn't trade the pick, but would rather package it to move up in the draft or get a legit #1 D (something that Erhoff isnt).

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Old
05-07-2009, 06:12 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stempniaksen View Post
The value probably isnt that far off (although tilted towards Ottawa for sure).

As a sens fan though i woud just keep the pick. I know we are in ''win now mode'' but our prospect pool could really use another high end guy.

That's not to say that I wouldn't trade the pick, but would rather package it to move up in the draft or get a legit #1 D (something that Erhoff isnt).
He led Sharks defensemen in minutes played in the playoffs and was probably there best player. I have a huge man crush on him I think he would thrive in Ottawa. Exactly what we need.

Here's a post which really hits home what Ehrhoff brings to the table.
http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=1...&postcount=191

Quote:
As to what makes Ehrhoff "gold", it's the fact that he has a combination of skills and attitude you just don't find very often. Find me another defenseman in the Sharks org or the league who could do these things:

- Has top-level speed. Enough to keep up with the fastest forwards in the league
- Can play 25+ minutes a night
- Steps UP his game in the playoffs
- Can be a top penalty-killer AND play well on the #1 PP
- Is big enough and tough enough to play with some of the bigger and tougher forwards in the league (notice Ehrhoff's play on Perry this series)
- Plays with a bit of a edge
- Is defensively VERY GOOD, not just average
- Can skate the puck up the ice very well and carry it into the opposition zone
- Is willing to block shots (Ehrhoff is leading the team in the playoffs)
- Is 26 or 27 or younger (Ehrhoff is 26) and still getting better every season

I don't think you'll find many, if any, other defensemen in the NHL with that skill set. Right now I would keep Ehrhoff over any other defenseman on the team (including Boyle), because he is the one defenseman who can do EVERYTHING you need a d-man to do at a solidly good level. And he's still improving.
I'd love to add that skill set to Ottawas back end.

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Old
05-07-2009, 06:21 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fuhr View Post
To Ottawa
Christian Ehrhoff
Logan Couture

To SanJose
9th overall pick
Brian Lee
_________________

- Sens get a defenseman who can play 22-24 minutes a game all situations. Put up 45-50 points. Makes 3.1 for three more years.
- Also get a good two-way prospect that played for the 67's, could play on the 2nd line with Foligno for years to come.

- Sharks get a young smooth skating defenseman who has 40 point upside.
- Sharks get the 9th pick from an incredibly deep draft. A piece that should be a building block.
Honestly, I think Ottawa needs to give up quite a little bit more. The 9th is a bit better than Couture, while Ehrhoff at such a steal for 3 years is worth quite a bit more than Lee. I would throw in next years 2nd and maybe a 4th to even this out. Like you, Fuhr, I too have a man-crush on Ehrhoff.

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Old
05-07-2009, 06:26 PM
  #5
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You forgot the part about how the only consistent aspect of Ehrhoff's game is his brainfarts. He's incredibly talented, but he simply doesn't play anywhere near as good as he should be on a consistent basis.

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Old
05-07-2009, 06:31 PM
  #6
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Quote:
You forgot the part about how the only consistent part of Ehrhoff's game is his brainfarts. He's incredibly talented, but he simply doesn't play anywhere near as good as he should be on a consistent basis.
He had a great season this year, people are just looking so hard for his mistakes at this point they stick out.

Were he to go UFA, I think he'd get a pretty decent payday. He's got a unique combination of skills you do not generally see in a defensemen, especially for his price.

I like this deal, but, remember, Couture was a 5th overall himself. I'd want a prospect tossed in to make this even, or a 3rd/4th line energy/grinder type forward. Nothing out of hand.

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Old
05-07-2009, 06:33 PM
  #7
matt trick
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Sharks won't trade Ehrhoff because he would be impossible to replace in the UFA market. You could get Jbou but he will be 2.5 times the price, and there is no guarantee he would choose San Jose.

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Old
05-07-2009, 06:40 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fuhr View Post
He led Sharks defensemen in minutes played in the playoffs and was probably there best player. I have a huge man crush on him I think he would thrive in Ottawa. Exactly what we need.
He was there best defenceman in the playoffs, and look where it led them...

This guy has amzing talent, and had a great year. But he's still not a true #1 in my mind. If we didn't have a guy like Kuba making as much as he is than I agree he's be a great fit. But at this point in time, the only type of defenceman I want added to Ottawa's blueline is a clearcut #1.

The value certainly is tipped in Ottawa's favour, but I just don't see this deal being of great benefit, especially considering were trading away such a high pick.

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Old
05-07-2009, 07:29 PM
  #9
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I don't think this deal is good enough for the Sharks. Giving away their arguable #2/#3 defenseman (assuming Blake walks this summer) and top prospect, for a draft pick and a lesser prospect than the one we're giving?

Ehrhoff would be difficult to replace both in the UFA market and in the Sharks' farm system. I don't see the Sharks doing this simply because I don't think they want to stockpile picks and prospects because they are trying to get a cup.

Also, I don't see DW getting rid of Couture, because DW is very fond of him, and the Sharks had to trade up just to pick him.

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Old
05-07-2009, 08:51 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fuhr View Post
- Sens get a defenseman who can play 22-24 minutes a game all situations. Put up 45-50 points. Makes 3.1 for three more years.
- Also get a good two-way prospect that played for the 67's, could play on the 2nd line with Foligno for years to come.
Erhoff has two years left on his contract.

Who knows when Couture will make the second line, if ever.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
I like this deal, but, remember, Couture was a 5th overall himself. I'd want a prospect tossed in to make this even, or a 3rd/4th line energy/grinder type forward. Nothing out of hand.
Couture was a 9th overall pick and he's not lived up to those expectations. He hasn't made the Canadian World Junior team. A 9th overall pick in the current draft is better then a pick from two years ago that isn't looking like a sure thing to make the NHL next season. Especially since this year's draft looks a lot stronger in the top 10 then 2007.

This trade might make Ottawa better next season but it makes San Jose better in two years from now.

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Old
05-07-2009, 09:36 PM
  #11
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I'd pass.

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Old
05-07-2009, 11:23 PM
  #12
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i like...but then again, who know's how good our 9th pick overall will be, especially if we can trade it to get higher in the draft, so not too sure

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Old
05-08-2009, 12:17 AM
  #13
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i like it from Ottawa's side

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Old
05-08-2009, 12:39 AM
  #14
tarlinian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayabusa View Post
Erhoff has two years left on his contract.

Who knows when Couture will make the second line, if ever.




Couture was a 9th overall pick and he's not lived up to those expectations. He hasn't made the Canadian World Junior team. A 9th overall pick in the current draft is better then a pick from two years ago that isn't looking like a sure thing to make the NHL next season. Especially since this year's draft looks a lot stronger in the top 10 then 2007.

This trade might make Ottawa better next season but it makes San Jose better in two years from now.
Unless Couture really devolves, he should develop into someone at least as good as Pavelski. IMO, it's a mistake that he didn't make the WJC. I believe he'd also had been recovering from a leg injury. Ehrhoff on the other hand is worth more to the Sharks than nearly anyone else. At the 9 spot the BPA will likely be a center, which the Sharks are pretty heavy on. (We currently have 3 skaters that could easily play a top-6 role on most teams and Mitchell is also pretty good.) On the other hand, replacing Ehrhoff with a defenseman of a similar caliber would be extremely expensive and/or difficult. No from San Jose.

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Old
05-08-2009, 02:00 AM
  #15
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brian lee vs couture-i'd take couture, but it's hard to compare dmen vs forwards. Couture is 2 years younger and he's already put up great numbers with the 67's. Couture's major downside has been concussions, with concussions this early in a career i can only imagine bad things coming from that.(i.e patrice bergeron)
9th pick vs ehrhoff-This is where the deal really falls apart. The sharks have had great depth on defense the past few seasons and this last season he's really improved a ton. To the point where he can be relied on in a 1st/2nd pairing for both the powerplay and pk. His shot is an absolute cannon, and one of these seasons he's just going to figure out the accuracy. Most of his mistakes are the ones that the fans really notice(missing the net, brainfart turnovers, ect), what you don't notice as much is his improved play along the boards, positioning, ect. Last season i'd probably take this deal, but this past season he's really improved and i'll expect greater things from him, especially if blake retires and his ice time increases even more.

so that's another no from a sharks fan.

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Old
05-08-2009, 07:42 AM
  #16
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There are many scouts and media who aren't convinced Couture will be anything more than an average player, if he makes the league at all. Lee while not spectacular will have long career in the league.

Trading a low 1st rounder for Campoli is fair value. Giving up a 9th overall for a good dman is not fair value, especially in a strong draft. Too much of a risk that an unknown commodity will be a better player than Erhoff.

No from the Sens.

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Old
05-08-2009, 07:50 AM
  #17
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I don't know why some are evaluating the trade based upon Couture vs Lee and Erhoff vs the 9th overall.

It's Erhoff vs Lee and it's close in value. Lee could be as good as Erhoff soon, he's got a
smaller cap hit and he's further away from UFA.

Meanwhile the 9th overall vs Couture isn't close at all. Couture has gone down in value since being drafted while this year's draft is much stronger then Couture's.

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Old
05-08-2009, 08:31 AM
  #18
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Lees not close to Ehrhoff right now. I totally understand why the Sharks would not want to do this deal.

Ehrhoffs a spectacular talent.

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Old
05-08-2009, 01:28 PM
  #19
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I'd pass as a Sens fan. Logan Couture scares the crap out of me and he is very high risk, especially when the reward isn't all that great, imo.

However, if OEL and Kulikov are both gone at #9 and it's down to Shroeder or Kadri, I'd consider revisting an Ehrhoff for the #9 (With a little something to sweeten the pot) but if that isn't possible, I'd be fine with Kadri or Schroeder.

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Old
05-09-2009, 03:48 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayabusa View Post
I don't know why some are evaluating the trade based upon Couture vs Lee and Erhoff vs the 9th overall.

It's Erhoff vs Lee and it's close in value. Lee could be as good as Erhoff soon, he's got a
smaller cap hit and he's further away from UFA.

Meanwhile the 9th overall vs Couture isn't close at all. Couture has gone down in value since being drafted while this year's draft is much stronger then Couture's.
It doesn't matter whether you think Couture's value has gone down. The Sharks love him, and have no desire to trade him.

Plus, you may have noticed that the Sharks want to win the Cup, you don't achieve that by trading one of your better defenseman for a younger player who may sometime in the future be as good as the one you are trading. Nor do you gain anything by trading one of your top-prospects for an 18 year old kid who is 2-3 years away from even making the lineup.

If you are at the top of the standings, you don't go for a deal that may make you stronger in quite a few years (if at all), you try to have a roster that is as strong as it possibly can be right now.

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Old
05-09-2009, 06:41 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fuhr View Post
To Ottawa
Christian Ehrhoff
Logan Couture

To SanJose
9th overall pick
Brian Lee
_________________

- Sens get a defenseman who can play 22-24 minutes a game all situations. Put up 45-50 points. Makes 3.1 for three more years.
- Also get a good two-way prospect that played for the 67's, could play on the 2nd line with Foligno for years to come.

- Sharks get a young smooth skating defenseman who has 40 point upside.
- Sharks get the 9th pick from an incredibly deep draft. A piece that should be a building block.
Yikes!
An average D-man coming off of a career season (whom you've so generously built up to sound like somebody better than Bouwmeester in this thread) and ho-hum center prospect that we won't be needing for half a decade.

Instead of trading for an offensive #4 D-man... and yes, Fuhr that's exactly what Ehrhoff would be in Ottawa... the Sens would be better off playing similar, younger players (Lee 22, Campoli 24, Picard 23) who've yet to have breakout seasons than paying an inflated price because Ehrhoff had a career year.

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Old
05-09-2009, 08:36 AM
  #22
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Ah yes, if you don't like someone he just had a career season, if it's someone you already have it's natural progression or someone waiting for his breakout season, right

Neither Picard nor Lee are anywhere close to Ehrhoff right now, Campoli is the closest but still not on Ehrhoff's level, and it's completely up in the air if any of those three will ever match him.

There are various reasons for not wanting to do such a deal, but declaring Ehrhoff an average defenseman and Couture a ho-hum prospect is just bs.

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Old
05-09-2009, 09:38 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanderson View Post
Ah yes, if you don't like someone he just had a career season, if it's someone you already have it's natural progression or someone waiting for his breakout season, right
It's not always the case that somebody posts something intentionally, but in this case yes... I did choose my words as carefully as you explain and kudos for noticing.

Regardless, Ehrhoff (topping his relatively unremarkable career by) having his season at 26-27 is less impressive than it might have been at 23-24 (Lee/Picard going into next season)... Ottawa would be better served playing the youngin's right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanderson View Post
Neither Picard nor Lee are anywhere close to Ehrhoff right now, Campoli is the closest but still not on Ehrhoff's level, and it's completely up in the air if any of those three will ever match him.

Well, that's where you're wrong. ATM, there's no way I'd throw Ehrhoff into a defensive situation ahead of Lee. As for their offensive stats (which is the only guarenteed positive for Campoli over them and sends out the signal that's what you were basing your decision on)... no offensive stat that was acquired under Hartbsurg matters as it will probably be a long time if ever that he becomes an NHL coach again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanderson View Post
There are various reasons for not wanting to do such a deal, but declaring Ehrhoff an average defenseman and Couture a ho-hum prospect is just bs.
Really? You think that a 20 yo CHL prospect who could possibly be slightly above average offensively and average defensively is better than ho-hum? I wouldn't trade Peter Regin for that (who IMO, is an NHL player after 11 NHL games).

Ehrhoff is an average D-man though. He's well below average defensively with little track record to suppport me (or anyone else) caring about the offensive prowess that he finally showed this season. For $3.1M (or more than Lee, Campoli and Picard combined), we should be assured that he could put up an 09-10 better than they can... but we can't be assured of that can we?

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Old
05-09-2009, 10:05 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
It's not always the case that somebody posts something intentionally, but in this case yes... I did choose my words as carefully as you explain and kudos for noticing.

Regardless, Ehrhoff (topping his relatively unremarkable career by) having his season at 26-27 is less impressive than it might have been at 23-24 (Lee/Picard going into next season)... Ottawa would be better served playing the youngin's right?




Well, that's where you're wrong. ATM, there's no way I'd throw Ehrhoff into a defensive situation ahead of Lee. As for their offensive stats (which is the only guarenteed positive for Campoli over them and sends out the signal that's what you were basing your decision on)... no offensive stat that was acquired under Hartbsurg matters as it will probably be a long time if ever that he becomes an NHL coach again.



Really? You think that a 20 yo CHL prospect who could possibly be slightly above average offensively and average defensively is better than ho-hum? I wouldn't trade Peter Regin for that (who IMO, is an NHL player after 11 NHL games).

Ehrhoff is an average D-man though. He's well below average defensively with little track record to suppport me (or anyone else) caring about the offensive prowess that he finally showed this season. For $3.1M (or more than Lee, Campoli and Picard combined), we should be assured that he could put up an 09-10 better than they can... but we can't be assured of that can we?
You do realize he played over 24 minutes a game in the playoffs (led Sharks) and was the only defenseman they had that could contain Getzlafs line.

Below average defensively? What a joke

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05-09-2009, 10:25 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fuhr View Post
You do realize he played over 24 minutes a game in the playoffs (led Sharks) and was the only defenseman they had that could contain Getzlafs line.

Below average defensively? What a joke
Holy ****! You mean that he played over 24 mins a game for 6 games? That almost makes him almost half as special as David Tanabe.

Oh, btw... I don't care about how incompetent San Jose is in stopping Ryan Getzlaf.

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