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What do you want from Edm for your 1st

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Old
04-23-2009, 05:47 PM
  #1
rockinghockey
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What do you want from Edm for your 1st

I know you guys are getting thin on defense as your guys are getting a bit older. What dmen woud you want for your 1st rounder this year.

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04-23-2009, 05:50 PM
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In addition to your pick Souray would work.

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04-23-2009, 05:53 PM
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rockinghockey
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Originally Posted by Knee Seeking Scud View Post
In addition to your pick Souray would work.
Souray and a 2nd or prospect. If we are giving up Souray and our 1st we expect to move up a lot more than that.

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04-23-2009, 06:44 PM
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probably want to call Hull or Jackson and ask them, we dont get to make trades on here


Stars wont be trading their 1st this year, but if they were i would think they'd be looking for a young dman who can be a #1

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04-23-2009, 07:58 PM
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Isn't there like some rule where Dallas can't trade with Edmonton?

Yep. I think there is.

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04-23-2009, 07:59 PM
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piqued
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To Edmonton:
Dallas '09 1st round pick
Dallas '10 1st round pick
Toby Petersen

To Dallas:
Edmonton '09 2nd round pick
Edmonton '10 1st round pick
Sam Gagner

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04-23-2009, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piqued1457 View Post
To Edmonton:
Dallas '09 1st round pick
Dallas '10 1st round pick
Toby Petersen

To Dallas:
Edmonton '09 2nd round pick
Edmonton '10 1st round pick
Sam Gagner


You might get Gagner for two first rounders. You have seen the kid play right? The kids is going to be a stud and a top line center in the league,.

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04-23-2009, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piqued1457 View Post
To Edmonton:
Dallas '09 1st round pick
Dallas '10 1st round pick
Toby Petersen

To Dallas:
Edmonton '09 2nd round pick
Edmonton '10 1st round pick
Sam Gagner
I like the random inclusion of Toby peterson that will surely make the deal from edmonton's perspective!

but seriously, what's the point of the oilers trading up a couple of spots? Unless they are just huge on OEL or Nazem Kadri or someone and just need to get him no matter what, there's noone available at 8th that you don't have a chance of getting at 10 depending on how the draft shakes down

honestly I've been getting used to the idea of Dallas drafting their most talented prospect since the team arrived in texas I'd like to keep the pick unless something really amazing comes along

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04-23-2009, 08:14 PM
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piqued
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The point of my proposal is that Edmonton gets both the 8th and the 10th selection in this strong draft.

Petersen was indeed for comedy's sake.

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04-23-2009, 08:38 PM
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I don't like that trade idea but it isn't bad. I could probably be convinced

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04-23-2009, 08:41 PM
  #11
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Tom Gilbert and another player.

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04-23-2009, 08:50 PM
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Tom Gilbert and another player.
Kyle Brodziak?

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04-23-2009, 09:09 PM
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I don't really think we make that great of trading partners. We need to get a little more experienced on the back end, and more stable defensively, and nothing that includes our first would do it for me personally.

Oh, and, why the hell do we need Sam Gagner? We already have two centers who he is likely not going to get ahead of, not to mention he had a pretty bad season overall. I just don't think his value is nearly that high. Just looks like a trade for the sake of trading to me.

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04-24-2009, 01:48 PM
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rockinghockey
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The way that I see it your team needs a puck moving dman and we have extra of puck moving dmen. We have 4 established dmen that can play in the top 4 spots. Souray; Visnovsky; Gilbert and GRebs. So your telling me a proven puck moving dman is not worth your 1st ok good luck finding one and in all honestly what is the percentage of a top 10 pick making an impact in the NHL

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04-24-2009, 01:59 PM
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It's been a while since I've seen the numbers, and I cannot find them at present, but the chance the Stars draft a player with the eighth pick in the draft who will make an impact is somewhere around 70 percent.

I should also note that while the Stars d-men are in fact getting older, as are every team's d-men, players already under contract for next season and including Fistric put the average age at 26, not exactly an old unit.


Last edited by Chad_: 04-24-2009 at 02:13 PM.
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Old
04-24-2009, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockinghockey View Post
The way that I see it your team needs a puck moving dman and we have extra of puck moving dmen. We have 4 established dmen that can play in the top 4 spots. Souray; Visnovsky; Gilbert and GRebs. So your telling me a proven puck moving dman is not worth your 1st ok good luck finding one and in all honestly what is the percentage of a top 10 pick making an impact in the NHL
Regardless of what any anyone thinks I still wouldn't trade the 8th overall pick for any of those guys. As long as Richards is healthy the Stars have a PP QB and there's still Vishnevskiy. He was pretty solid when he got called up and our PP began to slowly click. I'm willing to see if he can become a legit puck mover next season.

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04-24-2009, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockinghockey View Post
The way that I see it your team needs a puck moving dman and we have extra of puck moving dmen. We have 4 established dmen that can play in the top 4 spots. Souray; Visnovsky; Gilbert and GRebs. So your telling me a proven puck moving dman is not worth your 1st ok good luck finding one and in all honestly what is the percentage of a top 10 pick making an impact in the NHL
If the 8th overall pick sucks so much and the player only has a small chance of making an impact, why would Edmonton want to trade one of their elite puck moving defensemen for it?

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04-24-2009, 04:48 PM
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Of course if you could actually acquire Gilbert or Grebeshkov it would in many ways be superior than paying dearly for Bouwmeester or another established "#1". They would both instantly become the Stars' best Dman option on the PP barring Zubov's recovery.

Then again, PP points run by a combination of Zubov, Richards, Niskanen, Vishnevskiy, Daley, and Robidas is perfectly acceptable, but the likelihood of all those options being available concurrently is slim. And it doesn't appear the GMs are content with that at any rate.

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04-24-2009, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
I don't really think we make that great of trading partners. We need to get a little more experienced on the back end, and more stable defensively, and nothing that includes our first would do it for me personally.

Oh, and, why the hell do we need Sam Gagner? We already have two centers who he is likely not going to get ahead of, not to mention he had a pretty bad season overall. I just don't think his value is nearly that high. Just looks like a trade for the sake of trading to me.
He had a pretty bad season? Last time I checked we arent exactly overflowing with young players who have compliled 2 40 point seasons before their 20th birthday. Gagner is going to be a great player for a long time. That being said I think Jordan Schroeder is sort of an upgraded version of him and would therefore much prefer they just draft him.

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04-24-2009, 09:46 PM
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Anyone in Edmonton will tell you he didn't have the greatest season, and not that it really matters or anything but that is rash overpayment for a guy who hasn't delivered. Not to mention that we don't need another center, which is pretty much the biggest argument to not getting him.

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04-24-2009, 09:53 PM
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piqued
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Disagree... center depth is an issue. Not next year, but then again you wouldn't acquire a 19 year old just for next year.

In 1 more year we have twice the uncertainty with Modano gone and Petersen a UFA. In an additional year we have 4 times the uncertainty with Richards and Sutherby UFAs. Wandell and Roman are nice prospects, but by no means locks for long-term NHL success.

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04-24-2009, 10:35 PM
  #22
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So get a checking line center, you don't need to give up a ton of assets for a guy who is getting 3rd line ice time. We have a boatload of centers, I'm still not getting why you need a 3rd offensive center at that price. We need more Jeff Halpern type centers, the kind who can take faceoffs and play good defense while occasionally chipping in.

Of course our prospects might not pan out, but in reality, neither might Sam Gagner. He's proven more than our guys at this level, but that's not really a fair argument. There are other areas we need to worry about way before center depth.

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04-24-2009, 11:03 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
So get a checking line center, you don't need to give up a ton of assets for a guy who is getting 3rd line ice time. We have a boatload of centers, I'm still not getting why you need a 3rd offensive center at that price. We need more Jeff Halpern type centers, the kind who can take faceoffs and play good defense while occasionally chipping in.

Of course our prospects might not pan out, but in reality, neither might Sam Gagner. He's proven more than our guys at this level, but that's not really a fair argument. There are other areas we need to worry about way before center depth.
With the depth Dallas has at wing, and the two-way ability of most of those players, I'd rather Dallas go with 3 offensive lines and a checking, defensive 4th line.

Next year, a line of Ott-Modano-Lehtinen would make since as a defensive 3rd line, but I agree with piqued, they're going to have guys like Morrow, Brunnstrom, Neal, Eriksson, and Benn on the wing soon. Plus, this 8th overall pick could be a forward, likely a winger (God please Schroeder). Dallas could go with a line like Neal-Richards-Eriksson who could kill a team in the offensive zone and effectively neutralize or slow down most team's top lines.

They've got the wingers to roll 3 high end offensive lines (well they should in a very short time), and they need a guy to run the 3rd line. I'm hoping that guy is Wandell, but he's still a question mark like piqued said.

That said, I think you give Wandell a shot this year to prove himself in NA before you worry about landing a 3rd line center. At least don’t make it a high priority. I would say Benn and Wandell probably get some quality time together in Austin this year, and I think that they’ll eventually graduate to the NHL together as the 3rd line in Dallas with Morrow on the 1st line LW and Neal on the 2nd line LW.

EDIT: I doubt it happens, but I think a 4th line with Ott-Sutherby-Sawada in a year or two would be pretty damn solid. I just don't think Ott would be thrilled with the idea of being a 4th liner again, but I don't think he can be an up tempo center or outplay Morrow, Neal, or Benn in a year or 2 from now.

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04-25-2009, 04:57 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piqued1457 View Post
Disagree... center depth is an issue. Not next year, but then again you wouldn't acquire a 19 year old just for next year.

In 1 more year we have twice the uncertainty with Modano gone and Petersen a UFA. In an additional year we have 4 times the uncertainty with Richards and Sutherby UFAs. Wandell and Roman are nice prospects, but by no means locks for long-term NHL success.
Agreed. More to the point though, you should always take the best available player on your board, regardless of perceived needs in the organization, especially with the 1st rounder. Personally I think the Stars might try to move up a slot or two to grab Schenn or Kane, which I think would be worth it. Even if they stay at 8, Kadri or one of those guys will be there, which would make me extremely happy. The Stars prospect pool has a lot of "2nd line center" potentials in guys like Lindgren, Wandell, Roman, etc. These would look like much better as secondary options at center to a guy like Schenn or Kadri. Right now we have two solid centers in Ribeiro and Richards, but B. Rich's contract ends in two years, so in the very least it would be nice to have an internal backup plan in case he doesn't re-sign.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rockinghockey View Post
The way that I see it your team needs a puck moving dman and we have extra of puck moving dmen. We have 4 established dmen that can play in the top 4 spots. Souray; Visnovsky; Gilbert and GRebs. So your telling me a proven puck moving dman is not worth your 1st ok good luck finding one and in all honestly what is the percentage of a top 10 pick making an impact in the NHL

None of those "established" defenseman is worth giving up the 8th overall draft pick, especially not this year. As an Edmonton fan you're going to have to suspend your reality for a while and get in the mindset of a team that drafts around 25th every year. I imagine the Stars front office is drooling at the prospect of picking that early. It is worth pointing out that only one of those d-men mentioned is a career + player... Visnovsky. Souray gets paid way too much...(I find it worrisome that a d-man scores 26 goals and 64 pts but has a -28 chain hanging around his neck). He won't be much help for 2009-10, but if he is still there I would rather the Stars just draft Jared Cowen. Strictly speaking as a d-man, not a puck-moving one or whatever, Cowen will probably be better than any of those Oiler d-men. I'd rather take my chances there.

I am burying my main point for good measure: the Stars don't need a "puck-moving d-man" like you say. Assuming Zubov is gone, the Stars have Niskanen, Daley, Robidas, and Vishnevskiy (who is still very unproven, but I think will be given every opportunity to win a roster spot next year, if only to help the PP...the guy is probably talented enough offensively right now to step in and contribute 8 goals and 35 pts with loads of potential). With Zubov likely gone the Stars are in need of the elusive true #1 D-man. None of those guys you mentioned is a significant upgrade in that regard for the Stars.

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04-25-2009, 08:00 AM
  #25
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Agreed. More to the point though, you should always take the best available player on your board, regardless of perceived needs in the organization, especially with the 1st rounder. Personally I think the Stars might try to move up a slot or two to grab Schenn or Kane, which I think would be worth it. Even if they stay at 8, Kadri or one of those guys will be there, which would make me extremely happy.
It will cost at least the 2nd rounder to move up, and there are quite a few good players at the top of the 2nd round.

Plus, a 2nd rounder is only going to move them up 2 spots, maybe 3 but unlikely. Kane and Duchene should go 3-4 or 4-3 meaning Dallas moving up would only have a shot at Cowan, Schenn, or MPS.

If Dallas made the trade and drafted Schenn, Dallas would be getting a great player, and I could see the benefit. He'd fit in with the players they have, but I'd still prefer the 2nd round pick. MPS has the potential to be more skilled than Brunnstrom, but they are similar. I think there's already a decent chance Cowan falls because of the rise of OEL. IMO, the loss of a 2nd round pick doesn't justify moving up for Cowan or MPS.

As far as Kadri goes, many scouts label him a head case. According to those guys, he's selfish with the puck, and couldn't care less about the defensive zone or the play when he doesn't have the puck. Some guys have a labeled him a bad teammate. True or not, Dallas shouldn't take a risk on another high profile, potential nut, especially when they *fingers crossed* shouldn’t be picking in the Top 10 for a while.

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