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Gainey says Lightning were a "big reason" for Habs collapse...

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Old
04-24-2009, 11:24 AM
  #51
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If anything we did caused them to get bounced from the playoffs, they didn't have the balls to be there in the first place.

Does this mean we swept them out twice now?

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04-24-2009, 11:26 AM
  #52
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Boston had Recchi.

We deserve a share of this series no doubt.

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04-24-2009, 11:27 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
I didn't intend to comment in this thread, I just came in to read Tampa's take on it but I felt that this post kinda warrants a countering opinion.

Even assuming Gainey's comments were on the mark, and there is no reason not to, I don't see the problem with Lawton shopping for the best deal possible.

If Lawton leaked the names to the press then I think there is a reason to be upset but leaking the names to competing GM's is just part of doing business.

Look at the return Thornton got Boston. That is perfect example of what happens if a GM doesn't shop a star to more than one bidder. On a more open market Thornton would have likely garnered a much bigger package.

Trying to maximize a return is part of the due dilligence you have to expect from your GM.

I think the worst thing that happens if GM's are leary of Lawton because of this is that they put a time frame on whatever they offer. It happens all the time in UFA negotiations to prevent shopping for the highest bidder. A GM offers up X, X and X and tells Lawton that he has Y amount of time before it's off the table in order to go shopping elsewhere.

Gainey's complaints are a little off target here imo, he needs to source out where the leak to the media was instead. Lawton is only one possibility for that. It could also have been competing GM's, agents or even the bloodhounds that are in Montreal with sources inside the Canadien's.

....

From a Tampa point of view I am more shocked that the reaction isn't more about Vinny actually being on the block. I was under the impression that the fan base was ready to revolt if he was moved and it appears that it is/was a distinct possibility in happening despite what Lawton originally said this winter.
Leak or not, GM BSing should not affect how your team plays on the ice. They lost because Boston was better, plain and simple. When the playoffs arrive, show up to play or go home. No crying over "How we could have had Vinny and what Lawton did to us".

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04-24-2009, 11:33 AM
  #54
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What did Lawton do exactly? Montreal offered a few players and Lawton wanted to see what he could get from other teams. Lawton didn't leak those names, the other teams did. Why would he have a conversation with just 1 GM and not see what the market has to offer? Gainey is crying because him putting his own players out for trade and then having it go public probably makes for an awkward conversation with said players .

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04-24-2009, 11:48 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBLightningFan View Post
Leak or not, GM BSing should not affect how your team plays on the ice. They lost because Boston was better, plain and simple. When the playoffs arrive, show up to play or go home. No crying over "How we could have had Vinny and what Lawton did to us".
I dunno, I have some sympathy for Montreal in this case. The psyche of atheletes are pretty unpredictable.

The first example I thought of was when Toronto was trying to land Lindros. It became such a circus that the entire team seemed to go in a funk. It pretty much cost them their playoff spot. It wasn't even about the players in the rumour mill as much as the notion that the calvary was coming...it was just a huge distraction.

Based on that I think the Vinny rumours may have played a part in Montreal's season turning and that is all Gainey really said, it played a part.

But as I said, I don't think Lawton did anything particularily wrong. He was looking out for Tampa's best interest which is what you want.

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04-24-2009, 12:01 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
I didn't intend to comment in this thread, I just came in to read Tampa's take on it but I felt that this post kinda warrants a countering opinion.

Even assuming Gainey's comments were on the mark, and there is no reason not to, I don't see the problem with Lawton shopping for the best deal possible.

If Lawton leaked the names to the press then I think there is a reason to be upset but leaking the names to competing GM's is just part of doing business.

Look at the return Thornton got Boston. That is perfect example of what happens if a GM doesn't shop a star to more than one bidder. On a more open market Thornton would have likely garnered a much bigger package.

Trying to maximize a return is part of the due dilligence you have to expect from your GM.

I think the worst thing that happens if GM's are leary of Lawton because of this is that they put a time frame on whatever they offer. It happens all the time in UFA negotiations to prevent shopping for the highest bidder. A GM offers up X, X and X and tells Lawton that he has Y amount of time before it's off the table in order to go shopping elsewhere.

Gainey's complaints are a little off target here imo, he needs to source out where the leak to the media was instead. Lawton is only one possibility for that. It could also have been competing GM's, agents or even the bloodhounds that are in Montreal with sources inside the Canadien's.

....

From a Tampa point of view I am more shocked that the reaction isn't more about Vinny actually being on the block. I was under the impression that the fan base was ready to revolt if he was moved and it appears that it is/was a distinct possibility in happening despite what Lawton originally said this winter.
Bingoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooo

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04-24-2009, 12:45 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Islanderfan72 View Post
so that was more distracting then the drug bust.
First time Ive heard of a drug bust.

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04-24-2009, 12:56 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
I didn't intend to comment in this thread, I just came in to read Tampa's take on it but I felt that this post kinda warrants a countering opinion.

Even assuming Gainey's comments were on the mark, and there is no reason not to, I don't see the problem with Lawton shopping for the best deal possible.

If Lawton leaked the names to the press then I think there is a reason to be upset but leaking the names to competing GM's is just part of doing business.

Look at the return Thornton got Boston. That is perfect example of what happens if a GM doesn't shop a star to more than one bidder. On a more open market Thornton would have likely garnered a much bigger package.

Trying to maximize a return is part of the due dilligence you have to expect from your GM.

I think the worst thing that happens if GM's are leary of Lawton because of this is that they put a time frame on whatever they offer. It happens all the time in UFA negotiations to prevent shopping for the highest bidder. A GM offers up X, X and X and tells Lawton that he has Y amount of time before it's off the table in order to go shopping elsewhere.

Gainey's complaints are a little off target here imo, he needs to source out where the leak to the media was instead. Lawton is only one possibility for that. It could also have been competing GM's, agents or even the bloodhounds that are in Montreal with sources inside the Canadien's.

....

From a Tampa point of view I am more shocked that the reaction isn't more about Vinny actually being on the block. I was under the impression that the fan base was ready to revolt if he was moved and it appears that it is/was a distinct possibility in happening despite what Lawton originally said this winter.
There's no problem shopping for the best possible deal. But the problem is HOW this was done. In Quebec and to some extent in the US, there is a duty to negotiate in good faith. The problem isn't where Lawson called Gainey to discuss those Canadiens players that he wanted in a trade for Lecavalier. Gainey obviously said, "I'm listening". The problem arises when Lawson never had any real intention to trade Lecavalier to Montreal, but rather to use Montreal as a leverage against other teams to try and get more elsewhere. And some how in doing that, the Montreal players were leaked to the media. That's bad faith negotiations. And in the end, the result was that it had a negative effect on the Montreal product on the ice to a certain degree.

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Old
04-24-2009, 12:59 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by airic000 View Post
There's no problem shopping for the best possible deal. But the problem is HOW this was done. In Quebec and to some extent in the US, there is a duty to negotiate in good faith. The problem isn't where Lawson called Gainey to discuss those Canadiens players that he wanted in a trade for Lecavalier. Gainey obviously said, "I'm listening". The problem arises when Lawson never had any real intention to trade Lecavalier to Montreal, but rather to use Montreal as a leverage against other teams to try and get more elsewhere. And some how in doing that, the Montreal players were leaked to the media. That's bad faith negotiations. And in the end, the result was that it had a negative effect on the Montreal product on the ice to a certain degree.
Now how do we know he never had any real intentions? I think he did, but he wanted more. So he bargained, and talked. Nothing more than pressure tactics, especially for Bob when you hear the outcry of fans and papers saying "bring him home". He almost bought into it. Almost.

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04-24-2009, 01:16 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Stone Phillips View Post
EXACTLY. not hard to understand montreal.

who the hell wants Gorges anyways?
He's actually pretty good. I'd give up the other two, before him.

23 points, +12, 24 years old. Plays hard, never backs down, even chucked his nuckles 3 or 4 times.

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04-24-2009, 01:35 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Riverboat Gambler View Post
He's actually pretty good. I'd give up the other two, before him.

23 points, +12, 24 years old. Plays hard, never backs down, even chucked his nuckles 3 or 4 times.
You know i'll agree with that. Hes not as bad as people make him out to be.

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04-24-2009, 01:45 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSampson View Post
What did Lawton do exactly? Montreal offered a few players and Lawton wanted to see what he could get from other teams. Lawton didn't leak those names, the other teams did. Why would he have a conversation with just 1 GM and not see what the market has to offer? Gainey is crying because him putting his own players out for trade and then having it go public probably makes for an awkward conversation with said players .
Cause what Lawton was doing is frowned upon even in the business world. Re-trading is not looked upon well by GM either. Gainey says Lawton did it and Lawton is denying. Believe who you want.

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04-24-2009, 01:47 PM
  #63
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And since it has to be rewritten all the time Gainey doesn't blame Tampa for the bad second half of the season. Also there was no disaster this season, we just didn't win the cup, surprised?

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04-24-2009, 02:59 PM
  #64
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You know i'll agree with that. Hes not as bad as people make him out to be.
Fan fav too... everybody loves the guy.


So much so that I couldn't read through your thread and refrain from pointing out that Gorges is pretty good.

If we didn't burn our bridges with you guys, from my pov, I'd be interested in some other players on your team. We're pretty good trading partners. We have lots of young veterans, good prospects and we have tons of cap space.

Obviously, you've got yourself a potential beast energy player in Artuykin (?sic). And Malone would obviously be a nice fit given the size of our forwards, particularly the top 6. I thought R.Craig showed true grit a few seasons ago, but it seems he's caught the injury bug, but I liked his character.

It's too bad it's all fixated on Vinny (that's Montreal Media, and not just the French Media)... who knows maybe the other management guys can work together and leave Lawton/Gainey out of it, however doubtful that is.

I would certainly agree that Bob's tirade hurts us in trade talks with your team. Your team is probably going to do some selling and we don't have much signed heading into next year. And you have 29 other teams to deal with...

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04-24-2009, 05:03 PM
  #65
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Wow, habs fans are so full of themselves. I bet Bob lost alot of that respect by blaming another team for the downfall in the postseason.
Gainey was voted as the best GM before this season by other GMs. There's no doubt that Gainey's words are way more trustworthy than Lawton. Anyway as I said it will prevent you to get ***** even more on the trade market so good for you.

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04-24-2009, 05:06 PM
  #66
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You guys are complaining over nothing. Right before 8:55 in the video below Gainey says secondary disturbances were excuses, aka, not valid reasons for the bad play. He then goes on to say that lawton came to HIM with a list of players he was interested in, they had discussions, no where does he say he agreed to trade them and Lawton leaked it out anyway. I know i'm coming into your board and telling you this, so you'll regret the notion, but honestly, more credibility, Gainey or Lawton? If you say Lawton...well, I think you can imagine that i feel it's the incorrect answer. Lawton insisted for a long time he wasn't trading lecavalier, but suddenly, the truth comes out, he was shopping him. He lied then, and he doesn't have much other credibility to go on(not that he's never done anything right in the past, but he's a new GM and he's not exactly earning fellow GMs respect). For those who say teams will go to Lawton anyway if they need to and have a good offer, who's to say he won't use the listed names you're willing to trade as leverage in another trade? I liked feaster 100 times more than Lawton, as far as I know, he at least had class. Let's give an example, lecavalier would have potentially been traded to canucks for Luongo, you've heard this story, it took what? 2-3 years to be leaked out? Lawton is more efficient I guess. This isn't a shot at you, you didn't write the article, but you guys need some classy people in the organization, even kicking Boyle out was classless. They just signed him to an extension! Sounds familiar, get an extension and you can get traded, Boyle, Vinny talks. Anyway guys, I mean no harm towards the fans, merely the management. Like I said earlier, lawton isn't a Vet GM and we can assume it was a rookie mistake. Also, don't bash Gainey, in all the time he's been in Montreal I can't remember much time, if any besides Lawton were he's said words like that. Gainey is a reserved man, to suggest acts are disgraceful speak volumes considering he rarely speaks in that tone.



In the video before 8:55 and other conferences within this week(i watched the whole conference live and the one after elimination) gainey suggests that media coverage and so on aren't as bad as people make it out to be and nowhere does he suggest Lawton ****ed our season, he merely states throwing names out there when YOU offered a list of who you were interested in, is disgraceful and the players may have been distracted by it. He lists it as a potential factor to a poor 2nd half, not the defining reason for it.

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04-24-2009, 05:07 PM
  #67
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So excluding the Welch trade (though with Eminger being a frequent healthy scratch in Sunrise who knows?) how many trades did Lawton lose?
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Pretty much all of them. Holy overpayment on Meszaros.

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04-24-2009, 05:20 PM
  #68
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Pretty much all of them. Holy overpayment on Meszaros.
Which was made by ownership before Lawton became GM. Its arguable that it was a bad trade anyway, Kuba was a UFA and had zero chance at coming back and let's see if Picard can get out of the pressbox.

Now give me another trade that you feel was a loss, try to get one where Lawton was GM though.
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04-24-2009, 06:20 PM
  #69
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howza about i dont trust any of them? including ol' honest gainey.

nice red herring on the mesz trade though

also nice job booing your own #1 goaltender, hope he "roys" on you and goes to colorado

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04-24-2009, 06:51 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by JesusBouillon View Post
Gainey was voted as the best GM before this season by other GMs. There's no doubt that Gainey's words are way more trustworthy than Lawton. Anyway as I said it will prevent you to get ***** even more on the trade market so good for you.
Yeah, we'll see.

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04-24-2009, 06:51 PM
  #71
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howza about i dont trust any of them? including ol' honest gainey.

nice red herring on the mesz trade though

also nice job booing your own #1 goaltender, hope he "roys" on you and goes to colorado
Hahaha Chad is a badass.

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04-24-2009, 07:05 PM
  #72
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You guys are complaining over nothing. Right before 8:55 in the video below Gainey says secondary disturbances were excuses, aka, not valid reasons for the bad play. He then goes on to say that lawton came to HIM with a list of players he was interested in, they had discussions, no where does he say he agreed to trade them and Lawton leaked it out anyway. I know i'm coming into your board and telling you this, so you'll regret the notion, but honestly, more credibility, Gainey or Lawton? If you say Lawton...well, I think you can imagine that i feel it's the incorrect answer. Lawton insisted for a long time he wasn't trading lecavalier, but suddenly, the truth comes out, he was shopping him. He lied then, and he doesn't have much other credibility to go on(not that he's never done anything right in the past, but he's a new GM and he's not exactly earning fellow GMs respect). For those who say teams will go to Lawton anyway if they need to and have a good offer, who's to say he won't use the listed names you're willing to trade as leverage in another trade? I liked feaster 100 times more than Lawton, as far as I know, he at least had class. Let's give an example, lecavalier would have potentially been traded to canucks for Luongo, you've heard this story, it took what? 2-3 years to be leaked out? Lawton is more efficient I guess. This isn't a shot at you, you didn't write the article, but you guys need some classy people in the organization, even kicking Boyle out was classless. They just signed him to an extension! Sounds familiar, get an extension and you can get traded, Boyle, Vinny talks. Anyway guys, I mean no harm towards the fans, merely the management. Like I said earlier, lawton isn't a Vet GM and we can assume it was a rookie mistake. Also, don't bash Gainey, in all the time he's been in Montreal I can't remember much time, if any besides Lawton were he's said words like that. Gainey is a reserved man, to suggest acts are disgraceful speak volumes considering he rarely speaks in that tone.



In the video before 8:55 and other conferences within this week(i watched the whole conference live and the one after elimination) gainey suggests that media coverage and so on aren't as bad as people make it out to be and nowhere does he suggest Lawton ****ed our season, he merely states throwing names out there when YOU offered a list of who you were interested in, is disgraceful and the players may have been distracted by it. He lists it as a potential factor to a poor 2nd half, not the defining reason for it.
By Golly, you make too much sense...Lost in all this, Brian Lawton Publicly stated he isn't offering Vinny. Talk about load of crap!

The guy never had credibility as a GM because he never was one, and in his first season he lies about the poster boy of the team...nice Job!

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Old
04-24-2009, 07:11 PM
  #73
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You guys should go talk about how Lawton is an idiot at http://hfboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=16.

Don't forget to include how it doesn't snow in Florida so we don't deserve a team.

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04-24-2009, 07:17 PM
  #74
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You guys should go talk about how Lawton is an idiot at http://hfboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=16.

Don't forget to include how it doesn't snow in Florida so we don't deserve a team.
Truth hurts doesn't it? Lawton was called out,the same lawton that stated publicly he never offered Vinny to anyone nor was he going to (don't want Vinny btw, dumb contract).

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04-24-2009, 07:24 PM
  #75
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Gainey's Press Conference available to anyone who seeks it, writer inserts sensationalism into article that takes out the context of Bob's conference, believed to be the bible here.

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