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Would you trade for J. Thornton?

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Old
04-24-2009, 08:05 PM
  #51
Bulis hit
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I just want to clear up that I didn't start this thread while drooling over the idea of getting Joe Thornton.

However, with the lack of success that the sharks have "enjoyed" lately, they may be looking for a change. And it starts with their offensive leader who disappears in playoffs, Joe Thornton. So I began to wonder. There are many good points and many bad points as well as question marks. So I thought about asking your opinions.

The question mark:
-In time, can Thornton snap off the playoff problems and become a good, or at least decent performer? By the talks over here, it seems more likely to be no, but like was said earlier, Zetterberg and Datsyuk really started to dominate last year and were not so good before. So it could happen. If it does happen, I wish he is on the habs when it happens.

The bad:
-His big contract
-I didn't know before, but his meltdowns in front of the media.. that seems to be a deal killer right there.

The good:
-Top 3 setup man in the league.
-Makes players around him better, in reg season at least. Could really help Andrei Kostitsyn blossom as an offensive player.
-We would make the playoffs every year probably, but who knows what would happen then?

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Old
04-24-2009, 08:08 PM
  #52
Gil Gunderson
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He would get ripped apart.

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Old
04-24-2009, 08:14 PM
  #53
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What's he benefit of finishing 1st in the regular season then not getting past the 2nd round. We've been there done that, he's been there done that. Why bother? and I like Joe!

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Old
04-24-2009, 09:54 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by lextune View Post
There are two Joe Thorntons....

One is a regular season superstar.

The other makes this pass in a playoff game, down 2-0, with 6 minutes left before you go down 3 games to 1.

He CANNOT take the pressure.
Worse than the bad passes, it's his lack of grit, his disinterest and lack of commitment that I don't understand during the playoffs.

Bob McKenzie showed a couple of clips of Thornton during this series and I was shocked. Scrums in front of the net, every player involved, Thornton peeks, doesn't get involved, skates away... This guy should be like Iginla, Lecavalier or Getzlaf. In your face.

No, we don't need another player who can't motivate himself.

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Old
04-24-2009, 11:02 PM
  #55
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Thornton would be perfect for the Habs...he could be the biggest softie on the roster.

Looking back at the Bruins dealing him....it's starting to look better for them all the time.

Habs need to pass on Jumbo Joe.

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Old
04-25-2009, 12:21 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
I think the Sharks will look to trade Marleau before Thornton.

Would take Marleau in a heartbeat.

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Old
04-25-2009, 12:28 AM
  #57
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Sign him to a one year deal, trade him at the deadline for real playoff performers and resign him in the offseason. Let's just use him to get the Habs into the playoffs and then unload him. Keep doing this every year.

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04-25-2009, 12:44 AM
  #58
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Without a second thought, he is the centre Montreal needs up on the front line. With Joe hammering down the first line and Koivu holding the fort on the second, Montreal would be one dominating team. His playoff performance is a huge concern however I would swallow it as part of the gamble. Why? Because of the following...

1) He stays good ol' Joe and struggles all through the playoffs. Yes it would suck however he is a fantastic regular season player that would be a huge impact for our developing youth. He could provide much insight and experience, which might just allow them to push the team with Koivu and Kovalev while he sulks in the corner during the playoffs.

2) The insanity of Montreal lights a fire unlike anything before and he ignites in the playoffs. With Kovalev on his wing, hell even with Latendresse or Higgins, Montreal would easily push all the way.

It is a significant gamble because acquiring Joe would be costly however I would much rather him than Lecavalier. Why?

1) San Jose would accept a reasonable deal; Tampa wants three firsts, tons of players and even Markov. They are idiots.

2)
Joe Thornton: $7.2m until 11/12
Vincent Lecavalier: $7.6m until 20/21 (With a 10m cap hit for seven years)

Yeah, seems like a no brainer to me. Vinny's contract is absolutely ridiculous. If Joe does not work out, we let him walk or trade him, no harm done. Could the same be said about Vinny?

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04-25-2009, 12:57 AM
  #59
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I'd trade for him in a heartbeat.... I don't buy all that disappearing crap in the playoff. Same was said of many players, who got the hang of it after a while; Hossa for instance.

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04-25-2009, 12:59 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Bourne View Post
Without a second thought, he is the centre Montreal needs up on the front line. With Joe hammering down the first line and Koivu holding the fort on the second, Montreal would be one dominating team. His playoff performance is a huge concern however I would swallow it as part of the gamble. Why? Because of the following...

1) He stays good ol' Joe and struggles all through the playoffs. Yes it would suck however he is a fantastic regular season player that would be a huge impact for our developing youth. He could provide much insight and experience, which might just allow them to push the team with Koivu and Kovalev while he sulks in the corner during the playoffs.

2) The insanity of Montreal lights a fire unlike anything before and he ignites in the playoffs. With Kovalev on his wing, hell even with Latendresse or Higgins, Montreal would easily push all the way.

It is a significant gamble because acquiring Joe would be costly however I would much rather him than Lecavalier. Why?

1) San Jose would accept a reasonable deal; Tampa wants three firsts, tons of players and even Markov. They are idiots.

2)
Joe Thornton: $7.2m until 11/12
Vincent Lecavalier: $7.6m until 20/21 (With a 10m cap hit for seven years)

Yeah, seems like a no brainer to me. Vinny's contract is absolutely ridiculous. If Joe does not work out, we let him walk or trade him, no harm done. Could the same be said about Vinny?
Well Vinny would work here, he's a dominant player (way better than Big Joe in ever aspects of the game except passing). And we all already know that Thonrton wouldn't work comes playoff season.

And again Vinny's contract is not ridiculous.

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04-25-2009, 01:01 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Gee Wally View Post
Good luck with that.

Just so you guys know he couldn't handle the media attention in Boston. Which is probably the slightest fraction of what you guys got.
I always wanted to see the Montreal media cause a grown man to breakdown crying.

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04-25-2009, 01:02 AM
  #62
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I always wanted to see the Montreal media cause a grown man to breakdown crying.

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04-25-2009, 01:27 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustafa View Post
Well Vinny would work here, he's a dominant player (way better than Big Joe in ever aspects of the game except passing). And we all already know that Thonrton wouldn't work comes playoff season.

And again Vinny's contract is not ridiculous.
Really now?

Joe Thornton

06-07: 82-22-92-114
07-08: 82-29-67-96
08-09: 82-25-61-86

Vincent Lecavalier

06-07: 82-52-56-108
07-08: 81-40-52-92
08-09: 77-29-38-67

Seems like Joe trumps Vinney every year, albeit Joe is an assist juggarnaut while Vinny is a mixed bag. How about some more statistics?

Faceoffs

Joe: 52.9 and 55.4
Vinny: 48.8 and 50.4

Both over the last two years

I will concede Vinny is a better hitter however for someone who is "way better than Joe" why do statistics claim otherwise? I am not taking away from Lecavalier, he is a solid player although I have to admit, I do find him overrated.

Nonetheless I am curious how you find the massive life long contract of his not ridiculous. I am thinking long term, when Vinny is 34-36, will be putting up numbers to justify a $10m paycheck or will he go the way of say Sundin? Also like I said, Tampa Bay is insane with their demand, San Jose not so much I would imagine.

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Old
04-25-2009, 01:58 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Ruzicka38 View Post
He was showered and on his way home last night BEFORE the media was allowed in the locker room ... just like back in 2004 when you guys knocked Boston out and he had 0 points in 7 games. I know, he had a rib injury. I will always say that this is hockey. How many players have gone out in the postseason with worse injuries and still played great? Answer: lots. Rocket Richard is mentioned for doing just that in the History of the Boston Bruins DVD that came out last month. Thornton is a floater when it counts. If you want a player that will dominate in December, but coast in April and not answer for it, trade for Thornton.
Can we sign him for 1/2 of the salary and tell him he won't have to play the last two month and in the playoffs? And sign Koivu for a 1/2 of the salary and say that he will mostly play in the last two months and the playoffs?

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Old
04-25-2009, 02:16 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Gee Wally View Post
Good luck with that.

Just so you guys know he couldn't handle the media attention in Boston. Which is probably the slightest fraction of what you guys got.
Agreed. We need a star studded player who is tough as nails when it comes to media attention. A for effort but D- for overall research. Thornton is a great Season Performer that makes everyone around him better, but a playoff choke artist and very media shy. In fact maybe he chokes in the playoffs because of the Media? who knows.

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Old
04-25-2009, 02:33 AM
  #66
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The answer is yes, after watching the Sharks for years. But... I see him as another Ribeiro with size. He needs a Brendon Morrow on his line to create passing lanes in the playoffs.

Anyway, no way we get him. Won't happen.

BUT DON'T TRADE FOR MARLEAU! WHAT A PILE!

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04-25-2009, 02:35 AM
  #67
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I would take my chances

Perezhogin - Thornton - A. Kostitsyn
Tanguay - Koivu - D'Agostini
Pacioretty - Lang - S. Kostitsyn
Higgins - Lapierre - Latendresse


Heck yah


Yeah he's been horrible in the playoffs so far, yeah he's not the most physical guy, but he's that Big center 29 years old and under contract for 3 more seasons. Perfect guy in my opinion.

I actually think if Gainey did this, it'd be a stroke of Genii

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04-25-2009, 02:38 AM
  #68
tinyzombies
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Originally Posted by Ape Clutch View Post
I would take my chances

Perezhogin - Thornton - A. Kostitsyn
Tanguay - Koivu - D'Agostini
Pacioretty - Lang - S. Kostitsyn
Higgins - Lapierre - Latendresse


Heck yah
Not a prayer would that work. No way.

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04-25-2009, 02:39 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
Not a prayer would that work. No way.
cap wise u mean?

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04-25-2009, 02:59 AM
  #70
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I've always been frustrated with his perimeter play in the playoffs despite his big frame.

The playoffs are a time where the players step up their intensity. I'm starting to wonder whether Joe has that extra gear in him. In game 4, he looked like the kovalev which gainey sent home for 2 games.

Point being, if I'm gonna take a cap hit of 7plus million on one player, he better have some playoff credentials, and this isn't the case with Joe. He's been around for 12 years now, so we cant play the "he's still young and maturing" card.

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04-25-2009, 03:37 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ape Clutch View Post
cap wise u mean?
Ummm do you actually think you would get him for free dude?

Seriously use your head for a minute

The cost for Joe would be much bigger then the cost of Vinnie

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04-25-2009, 03:54 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Bulis hit View Post
In order to bring some change, would you be interested in making a deal to acquire Joe Thornton?
**** no.

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Old
04-25-2009, 04:17 AM
  #73
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Ummm do you actually think you would get him for free dude?

Seriously use your head for a minute

The cost for Joe would be much bigger then the cost of Vinnie
Tampa Bay wanted: Higgins, Plekanec, P.K Subban and three first round picks; the later pushed to include Markov.

Whilst I do not doubt Thornton would cost quite a bit, I believe he would be traded for less than Lecavalier because Tampa's management have no idea what they are doing, not to mention Joe's lack of playoff performance would lower his value.

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04-25-2009, 04:33 AM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne View Post
It is a significant gamble because acquiring Joe would be costly however I would much rather him than Lecavalier. Why?

1) San Jose would accept a reasonable deal; Tampa wants three firsts, tons of players and even Markov. They are idiots.

2)
Joe Thornton: $7.2m until 11/12
Vincent Lecavalier: $7.6m until 20/21 (With a 10m cap hit for seven years)

Yeah, seems like a no brainer to me. Vinny's contract is absolutely ridiculous. If Joe does not work out, we let him walk or trade him, no harm done. Could the same be said about Vinny?
This is why you are not a GM. Of course its going to cost more to get Lecavalier, is a guy that is more dynamic, better skater, better goal scorer. He can set the tone of the game with his play. He was absolutely dominate the year they went to the cup, especially after the Islanders series. He steps up his game when the game means more. He did in his last year in the playoffs, he had like 5 goals in one series, not his fault they let Kabby go. He was flat out outstanding in the World Cup and was the MVP. Thornton is a bum, he gets a bunch of assists and you don't even notice him. Lecavalier hits, scores, makes big plays.. and he is more talented. Thornton would fizzle under the pressure, and frankly Thornton is not worth crap until he proves he is more then a regular season assist man.

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Old
04-25-2009, 04:51 AM
  #75
tinyzombies
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Originally Posted by Ape Clutch View Post
cap wise u mean?
He doesn't have that extra gear or the footspeed or agility. He doesn't want to fight, never did.

He has the vision and reach and he wants it easy.

But he needs a linemate to maximize what he does, just like Ribeiro does. If Thornton had Morrow, he'd be a playoff terror. He needs someone at the net. Maybe Clowe is the answer.

Marleau is the guy they should trade though. Pathetic. They could probably trick Atlanta into giving up Kovalchuk if they throw in Cheechoo and a pick. They could trick the hundreds of Atlanta fans with Cheechoo's 56 goals.

Let's hope they don't trick whoever our GM is though.


Last edited by tinyzombies: 04-25-2009 at 04:59 AM.
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