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Kostitsyn Hatred - What the hell?

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Old
04-26-2009, 11:59 AM
  #76
JGRB
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My problem with Andrei is his work ethic.

He'll go on a 2-3 week stretch where he is above PPG, hitting everything that moves, and picking corners like no tomorrow. Then, he disappears for 6 weeks.

He has as much talent as anyone else drafted in 2003, his biggest problem is applying it on a consistent basis. He has 40G/80+pts potential in him, he probably needs a more consistent/talented centerman than we can provide at the moment though, and he needs to learn about work ethic. He might be earning decent money now, but 2 more seasons like last's, and he'll be lucky to find a contract after this one.

Sergei suffers from pretty much the exact same problems, except atleast he wasn't a first round pick.. For where he was drafted, he's still a good pick.

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04-26-2009, 12:13 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
My problem with Andrei is his work ethic.

He'll go on a 2-3 week stretch where he is above PPG, hitting everything that moves, and picking corners like no tomorrow. Then, he disappears for 6 weeks.

He has as much talent as anyone else drafted in 2003, his biggest problem is applying it on a consistent basis. He has 40G/80+pts potential in him, he probably needs a more consistent/talented centerman than we can provide at the moment though, and he needs to learn about work ethic. He might be earning decent money now, but 2 more seasons like last's, and he'll be lucky to find a contract after this one.

Sergei suffers from pretty much the exact same problems, except atleast he wasn't a first round pick.. For where he was drafted, he's still a good pick.
See I would be worried about that if we had a great season where everyone played to their potential, but who didn't play like that this year? Why do the Kostitsyns keep getting the blame? That's what I don't understand. He didn't do that last year, but did this year and it happens to coincide with the team playing like **** as a whole and not a couple of individuals.

It's hard to be consistent when you're bounced around every line every 2-3 games and playing a game you are not suppose to. I mean the guy is a sniper and all he does is run around the ice chasing pucks because no one on our team besides Kovalev and Koivu can enter the zone without dumping the puck. The guy is a sniper and he is the only forward consistently heading for the net and playing on top of the goalie, no forward on our team besides Koivu screens the goalie better than Andrei. The problem is we have him playing a game that he's not suppose to be playing. Andrei is a sniper and a dangerous one at that, his game should be finding the open spots, playing a quiet game like Heatley, he's not supposed to be(well yes he's supposed to but not to the extent he has) chasing the puck all game long because people can't carrying the puck pass the blueline, he's not suppose to be the one who stands in front of the net screening the goalie and he's not suppose to be hitting people(one of the best hitters on our team btw), he's a sniper who's not being used as a sniper. He was used as a sniper twice the whole season, the 8 games with Lang where he had 8 goals and 15 points and the 4 games with Koivu and D;ago where he had 4 goals and 6 points. Coincidence? I think not.

Tell me one other player on our team besides Kovalev who could have scored that goal on Thomas in game 4? NO ONE! And you want to get rid of that potential.

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04-26-2009, 12:19 PM
  #78
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Andrei is one of our most valuable assets. Get rid of him and you get rid of the only potential 40 goal scorer in our whole system. For a team to succeed, you need to have a game breaker, which we don't have, but you need other offensive leaders and Andrei can be that.

Yes, he had a **** year, just like the whole team. Truth is, he got weighed down by having Plekanec as his center for 3/4 of it.
I don't care that we could have had Carter, Parise or Getzlaf. We didn't, it sucks but now it would be an horrible mistake to give up on him.

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Old
04-26-2009, 12:29 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akost View Post
Ok, so let's round out the ideas we have read in this thread.

First, Andrei Kostitsyn is a lazy, good-for-nothing Euro who should be doing so much more given the talent he has.

Second, since he's a first rounder, he should have made the Habs his first year in Pros because he is a first round draft pick and those are instant busts if they don't make the team their first year.

Third, since better players were picked after Andrei in that draft, the Habs have made a mistake drafting a player touted back then as a top-5 pick with the 10th pick.

Fourth, in relation with the third argument, we can conclude some people here think drafting is an exact science.

Fifth, others, such as myself, think that 23 goals in a very bad year is pretty promising given the fact that it's only Kostitsyn's second full season in the league.

Sixth, some people here say that Andrei isn't hated, but moreso bashed accordingly to his poor play, even though as a 24 year old, he led the Habs in goals for most of the year.


Now let's check the facts.

Andrei Kostitsyn is 24 years old.
Andrei Kostitsyn needed two years before he could make the team, in part because other rookie Guillaume Latendresse was preferred to him, mostly because of his young age, inspired play in camp and french-Canadian heritage.
Andrei Kostitsyn, as a second-year forward for the Montreal Canadiens, has scored 23 goals, good for second best on the team.
Andrei Kostitsyn has had a poor season based on last year's stats and play.
Andrei Kostitsyn was linked, along with his brother Sergei and Roman Hamrlik to Montreal mobster Pasquale Mangiola.
Andrei Kostitsyn, after being linked to said mobster, suffered a enormous drop in production.
Therefore, we can state that despite his evident skills, and because of various reasons, Andrei Kostitsyn had a bad year.

Now let's check the rest of the team.

The Montreal Canadiens, after finishing first in the Eastern Conference last year, barely made the playoffs this season.
The Montreal Canadiens' best player, Alex Kovalev, suffered a big drop in point totals, only accumulating 65 points compared to last year's 84.
The Montreal Canadiens' captain Saku Koivu also suffered a drop in points, getting 50 points, 6 fewer than last year.
The Montreal Canadiens' three major acquisitions of the offseason, Robert Lang, Alex Tanguay and Georges Laraque, all battled serious injuries which kept them away for months.
The Montreal Canadiens' secondary players such as Tomas Plekanec, Christopher Higgins and Sergei Kostitsyn all suffered a major drop in point totals this season.
The Montreal Canadiens' starting goaltender, Carey Price, saw his goal-average jump from 2.56 last year to 2.83 this season, and suffered from inconsistency and injuries throughout the season.
The Montreal Canadiens used 30 players this year. Of those, only 8 finished with a positive +/- stat.
The Montreal Canadiens celebrated their Centennial this year, adding enormous pressure to the players.
The Montreal Canadiens' head coach, Guy Carbonneau, was fired on March 9th by General Manager Bob Gainey, who took over the coaching for the remainder of the season.
The Montreal Canadiens, despite being fourth in the Eastern Conference for the most part of the season, struggled to make the playoffs only to be swept in the first round as the 8th seed by the first place Boston Bruins.
Therefore, we can state that because of various reasons, the Montreal Canadiens had a bad year.


So where's the logic, you tell me. It's fairly simple. If Andrei had the same year, point production and play-wise on a succeeding, well-playing, well-coached team, there would be a lot of place for concern and consideration of trading him. What most people here fail to realize is that THE WHOLE ****ING TEAM HAD A BAD YEAR. Apart from Andrei Markov and Maxim Lapierre, most players on the team badly failed to keep their progression curve the same, or for the older players, maintain their point production.

If we use the same logic some of you guys apply to judge Andrei, 3/4 of the team should be traded....oh wait. Sure, you can talk of lazy, uninspired play. Sure, you can speculate that the guy is not so bright and lacking too much vision to succeed in this league. Or you can look at the intangibles. He is 24 years old, already has 2 20+ goal seasons and is being treated like a bust despite the whole team having an horrible season.

Maybe he just doesn't have the same progression curve as the Jeff Carters and Ryan Getzlafs you wanted drafted in his place. But the guy is surely not a bust. I didn't even mention him being in a Sophomore Slump, because it's too easy to dispute. But when the whole team has an off-year, you have to be very shortsighted to want to trade one of the biggest pieces of our future for a short-term fix.

Failed logic...
Thank You. Well thought out, and presented post. I agree

Edit: Imo, there were too many holes in every aspect of this teams play this year, exacerbated by injuries, to be singling out individuals for blame.


Last edited by ToysInTheAttic: 04-26-2009 at 12:50 PM.
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Old
04-26-2009, 12:33 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
No I haven't, I don't think I ever will.

Other than those were yet again bad drafts for the habs, that's beside the point.

OP is asking why some people hate the Kostitsyns.
I wasn't going to say anything because in all honesty, some of you have no idea as to what you are saying.

1)As someone mentioned Andrei doesn't have a good center man to play with. Someone that goes to the net.
2)He's not shy of the physical play at all

And i could go on and on. The Montreal Canadiens did NOT make a mistake picking him 10th overall in 2003. They made a mistake of not getting a #1 or #2 center man.

If you think A.Kostitsyn is lazy player, then what the hell do you think Kovalev is? 5 year old on Redbull?

Chipchura is progressing fine, just because he's not on the NHL roster doesn't mean he's horrible. Ever think about it for cap space, maybe the media puts to much pressure on them to win every year? Maybe more conditioning?

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Old
04-26-2009, 12:35 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by franchise player View Post
For once, I agree with them. Seriously, the Kostitsyn bros are the most overrated players here. This is getting ridiculous, especially in Andrei's case.
HOW are they overrated?

Please explain to me how they are..

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04-26-2009, 12:40 PM
  #82
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I'd rather trade Andrei for a big center who we also need, and preferably a guy who brings it every game.

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04-26-2009, 12:53 PM
  #83
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Dont worry B0B will talk to them.

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Old
04-26-2009, 12:56 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
My problem with Andrei is his work ethic.

He'll go on a 2-3 week stretch where he is above PPG, hitting everything that moves, and picking corners like no tomorrow. Then, he disappears for 6 weeks.

He has as much talent as anyone else drafted in 2003, his biggest problem is applying it on a consistent basis. He has 40G/80+pts potential in him, he probably needs a more consistent/talented centerman than we can provide at the moment though, and he needs to learn about work ethic. He might be earning decent money now, but 2 more seasons like last's, and he'll be lucky to find a contract after this one.

Sergei suffers from pretty much the exact same problems, except atleast he wasn't a first round pick.. For where he was drafted, he's still a good pick.
This is his 2nd season. Last year, we can all agree he showed great things and had a good season. Maybe a lack of consistency was noted too, but that's normal with every youngster even for superstars.

This past season, he started with Plek and Kovy, that didn't work. So it was a slow start for him. Then he was moved around until he stayed with Lang and his bro as it was a good working line. There was a few attempts from Carbo to bring back the A.Kost/Plek/Kovy line, but it just didn't work. Due to injuries, players were moved around, A.Kost landed on Koivu's line with D'Ago and it worked well. It was again dismantled and he was placed back with Plek.
He was downgraded to playing with Lappy or on 4th at times as well.

To me it's simple. He was doing good with Lang and Koivu. Plek was horrible, so he was invisible when paired with him (if you think about it for 2seconds, so was every player paired with Plek this season). He was also and understandably useless on with Lappy or 4th line.

A.Kost is not at the point of making everybody around him better nor can he carry his line yet. He needs to be well complimented.
There's undeniable chemistry with him and his bro, but they need to be centered by a good big center that's not afraid to battle in corners.
It's normal for the brothers to keep looking for each other on the ice, and we should let them practice it. The Sedin twins were the same at first, always looking for one another. It took them a few years and they really came along in their 5th season.

A.Kost managed 23G this season. IMO, if he had played all season with Lang, he'd have well over 30G. Likewise if he was paired with Koivu.

I think it's obvious Plekanec was the main problem with our team this year. He failed to make any of his multiple linemates throughout the season produce and made us look as if we only had 3lines in most games. I still don't know how he was able to net 20G.


Last edited by Kriss E: 04-26-2009 at 01:01 PM.
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Old
04-26-2009, 01:04 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by ForzaHabs View Post
HOW are they overrated?

Please explain to me how they are..
I explained my points later... Read the thread again.

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Old
04-26-2009, 01:07 PM
  #86
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I gained a lot of respect for Andrei as a person last night after meeting him. Very nice guy.

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04-26-2009, 01:23 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by franchise player View Post
It's an excellent analysis. But there's a lot of other things to consider imo. First of all, there's not only goals. With all respect to your excellent analysis, you didn'y mention any other aspect of the game. And to be quite honest, Andrei has been very poor is every of those other aspect of the game this year. Physically, he could do a lot more. Defensively, he's subpar. Playmaking? He does a nice play once in a while and that's it. Playing with fire and drive? Only when his brother gets roughed. Overall, he's just a guy who can score from times to times because he has a nice scoring touch but the rest of his game is very overrated. There's been a love story between the fans of hfboards and Andrei for a while but I don't get it...

So yeah, you provided some solid arguments but if I were to write a scouting report on Andrei, I wouldn't overlook all his flaws.
Is this why you think he's overrated?

I can name you, actually I will name you players that fit this.

Kovalev, Koivu, Higgins, Hamrlik, Plekanec.

The only line that did anything positive was the
Latendresse - Lapierre - Kostopolous line.

If anyone is to be traded its the has-never-beens of Kovalev, Koivu and Higgins.

LOL #1 center at has 50pts at the end of the season.

I don't get the love affair with those 3 AT all.

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Old
04-26-2009, 01:25 PM
  #88
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he is responsible for being drafted before better players.
lolz

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Old
04-26-2009, 02:00 PM
  #89
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I don't know why everyone seems to want to trade away two skilled players who just finished their SECOND seasons in the NHL. Sergei barely has more than 100 games under his belt! He had as many points as Higgins this season! Andrei was second on our team for goals scored and led for a good part of the season!

It seems that the idiots on RDS and TQS bashing Andrei and wishing the team was just made of french players have dug their racist and ignorant ideas into the heads of too many fans.

As far as the drug-dealer affair goes, why doesn't anyone mention Hamrlik? No one seems to want him to go even though he's been losing speed like a stalling 747. That turnover he caused in Game 4 still makes me mad!

Anyways, I just hope more people feel like I do about this. Don't give up on young players after a dip in their second seasons.


RANT RANT RANT

MODS: Perhaps this goes more into one of the already existing threads. If so, sorry!
I get the impression you aren't a member of the French Canadian press or a member of the 110% 'debating team' or one of the 'purelaine'-only (or mostly) promoter.
People like you are a shame to the 'my kind and only my kind' folks in the broader Canadiens circle.

By the way... so am I...

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04-26-2009, 03:34 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by shortcat1 View Post
I get the impression you aren't a member of the French Canadian press or a member of the 110% 'debating team' or one of the 'purelaine'-only (or mostly) promoter.
People like you are a shame to the 'my kind and only my kind' folks in the broader Canadiens circle.

By the way... so am I...
French-Canadian, born and raised in Ottawa to Quebecois parents.

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04-26-2009, 04:02 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Souvenirs View Post
Andrei is one of our most valuable assets. Get rid of him and you get rid of the only potential 40 goal scorer in our whole system. For a team to succeed, you need to have a game breaker, which we don't have, but you need other offensive leaders and Andrei can be that.
lol, exactly why Buffalo never traded Afinogenov when his value was high, and now they can't give him away.

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04-26-2009, 04:04 PM
  #92
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lol, exactly why Buffalo never traded Afinogenov when his value was high, and now they can't give him away.
I'd rather keep Andrei than trade him for almost nothing so that he can come back and bite us in the ass by fulfilling his potential on another team.

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Old
04-26-2009, 04:31 PM
  #93
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See I would be worried about that if we had a great season where everyone played to their potential, but who didn't play like that this year? Why do the Kostitsyns keep getting the blame? That's what I don't understand. He didn't do that last year, but did this year and it happens to coincide with the team playing like **** as a whole and not a couple of individuals.

It's hard to be consistent when you're bounced around every line every 2-3 games and playing a game you are not suppose to. I mean the guy is a sniper and all he does is run around the ice chasing pucks because no one on our team besides Kovalev and Koivu can enter the zone without dumping the puck. The guy is a sniper and he is the only forward consistently heading for the net and playing on top of the goalie, no forward on our team besides Koivu screens the goalie better than Andrei. The problem is we have him playing a game that he's not suppose to be playing. Andrei is a sniper and a dangerous one at that, his game should be finding the open spots, playing a quiet game like Heatley, he's not supposed to be(well yes he's supposed to but not to the extent he has) chasing the puck all game long because people can't carrying the puck pass the blueline, he's not suppose to be the one who stands in front of the net screening the goalie and he's not suppose to be hitting people(one of the best hitters on our team btw), he's a sniper who's not being used as a sniper. He was used as a sniper twice the whole season, the 8 games with Lang where he had 8 goals and 15 points and the 4 games with Koivu and D;ago where he had 4 goals and 6 points. Coincidence? I think not.

Tell me one other player on our team besides Kovalev who could have scored that goal on Thomas in game 4? NO ONE! And you want to get rid of that potential.
Where did I say I wanted to get rid of him though? No where.

It doesn't make sense right now, his value is in the poop shoot anyways.. We'll see how he does throughout the remainder of his contract, but he needs to pick up the consistency.

Not every game has been the fault of him not having a reliable center or winger. There has been games where everyone on his line was rolling with *Ok* results but A.K was truely the one that didn't show up. Then some games, like Game 4, he comes out flying.. You need to be more consistent. If he played with that fire all the time, he could carry his own line.

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04-26-2009, 07:00 PM
  #94
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I find this so god damn ironic coming from someone with a Kovalev avatar.
If Kostitsyn can have half the career Kovalev has had Id be pleasantly surprised.
What I find ironic is someone with a Kostitsyn! in his user name saying such a thing.

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04-26-2009, 08:01 PM
  #95
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I don't understand people who label A.Kostytsyn "lazy". I've seen him work his ass off in many games, give bone crushing hits, etc. I think he's one of the only players I ever saw crush Chara so hard along the board (07-08 playoff). In my book there's no doubt this guy will be an 80+ player at some point, and hopefully by then he'll will not have been driven out by moronic, racist and impatient fans and media.

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04-26-2009, 08:07 PM
  #96
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04-26-2009, 08:08 PM
  #97
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Kosti hit on Chara...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b5TAA1OCJg

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Old
04-26-2009, 08:13 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by slimkay View Post
We passed on Jeff Carter, Mike Richards, Ryan Getzlaf, Corey Perry and Zach Parise for AKost ... there's your justified hatred.
The draft is a crap shoot, and ya we lost on these guys. I like the potential of the Kosty's and they showed last year that they have the heart to play in the playoffs. This year might have been the off year AKost needs to work his ass off and come back a monster. Plus he's signed to a pretty good contract at the moment which gives us cap room to get a centre to play with them. If Lang comes back it should be him if not I think Cammelari would be a good fit.
Next year will be coming out party for Andrei. I hope it's here.

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04-26-2009, 09:13 PM
  #99
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The draft is a crap shoot, and ya we lost on these guys. I like the potential of the Kosty's and they showed last year that they have the heart to play in the playoffs. This year might have been the off year AKost needs to work his ass off and come back a monster. Plus he's signed to a pretty good contract at the moment which gives us cap room to get a centre to play with them. If Lang comes back it should be him if not I think Cammelari would be a good fit.
Next year will be coming out party for Andrei. I hope it's here.
It's not about skill. AKost was head and shoulders the most talented player in the draft. It's about character. AKost, like Kovalev, can have all the talent in the world, but it he doesn't have the character or drive to consistently use that talent, you get they type of season he just had .. and will continue to have.

I believe Timmins is weak on the character evaluations.

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Old
04-26-2009, 09:18 PM
  #100
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I gained a lot of respect for Andrei as a person last night after meeting him. Very nice guy.

where did you meet him?

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